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I would respond by simply asking a question...
If you build something, and you maintain something, do you get to make the rules as to how it is used?
I agree, but for LULZ sake I hope this thread is deleted.
Agree.
...I hope this thread is deleted.
...or moved to the appropriate forum, at least. This has nothing to do with "General Audio" and as such is in violation of TOS #6.
I don't know who you are or what you're complaining about but honestly the fact that you posted this thread probably means whatever they moderated you for was justified.
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Well Mike, you think he was justified probably because you think you are "too right" too?
I don't know what this actually means?
But you seem to like dictatorship.
This isn't the best way to start a discussion.
Great start to a ban me thread though.
I posted in this forum because it needs attention and "site related discussion" doesn't get any...
So the forum rules should take a back seat to what
you think the forum needs?
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Oh you are so hilarious
I don't know who you are or what you're complaining about but honestly the fact that you posted this thread probably means whatever they moderated you for was justified.
That's like saying, I don't know what Gary Kasparov is complaining about, but the fact that he's on TV talking about it probably means whatever he was arrested for was justified.
If you don't know what he's complaining about and don't care to understand, please refrain from commenting on this thread.
How does one get rid of a warning anyway? I've been at 33% for over a year, and I can't even remember what I did.
How does one get rid of a warning anyway? I've been at 33% for over a year, and I can't even remember what I did.
It goes, eventually.
Re dictatorships: I don't think that being told what to do on an Internet forum owned by someone else quite corresponds to being told what to do
all the time, whatever you're doing, in your own home. Beyond that, I've no idea what this is about so you can fight it out amongst yourselves, if you want.
Too harsh and dictatorial? Far from it. They never ever do a single thing without a reason. You might question the validity of the reason, but the fact remains that Hydrogenaudio is not the greater Internet. Sites are inherently "walled gardens". They are inherently dictatorial.
To draw an analogy, so are corporations. Where the power resides varies, but just because you're a customer doesn't mean you get to make policy decisions. Even if you account for 10% of a corporation's sales, all the influence you have is to cease business with that corporation.
The same is true here. Hydrogenaudio gets a lot of traffic. In order to keep things sane, there are rules. There is management. You might not agree with the management, but if you dislike it that much, you can go elsewhere. Good luck finding a management that is as willing to listen to reason as this one. TOS8 has prevented more stupidity than any other forum rule that I've ever encountered.
I'm a prime example. I've been a complete flaming retard on several occasions here. Yet in the end, if I'm wrong, I admit it. I've not once run into a serious issue with the moderation here, despite how close I tread to the edge sometimes. This is a damn good site run by damn good people, and I am saddened that other people perceive them as this thread describes them. If you knew them at all and have seen how they run this site, you'd probably think differently.
This forum is the only forum I frequent, and the management is the reason behind that. Beware! You are coming awfully close to insulting something that I value very highly.
...I hope this thread is deleted.
...or moved to the appropriate forum, at least. This has nothing to do with "General Audio" and as such is in violation of TOS #6.
The trash can. No moderation is done here without reason.
So your complaining your not banned yet? because you were simply re-warned?
In my first year on HA I got a lot of warnings, and for some of them I couldn't see a reason.
In an overall sense however the warnings have shown me how to write things the right way. In the end
a) moderation is necessary.
b) moderation is not too harsh here. In case you don't agree with specific warnings it's good to realize that we do not live in a perfect world, and to realize that you can say here whatever you want to, but have to put it into a certain form so that your writing is easier to read for other people. That's all what it is about. Mere emotional opinion of course is not welcome here.
*sigh*
Bourne, you are one of our frequent flyers. I reduced your warn level so I could rewarn you and thus suspend your post rights for a few days, after you once again violated the TOS by trolling. Reducing warn level to do that, is a technicality of how the warn system works, since I can't append to the warn log when a user is at 100%. The fact that you were re-warned and not banned, says something about our tolerance here, and our acknowledgement that you are an active poster. Yet you continue to dig your own grave.
As for how the moderation works around here, we have a non-public IRC channel that we usually discuss moderation issues in, if the case isn't a clear open-and-shut case such as spamming, trolling or something like that. This thread is sure to come up for discussion today, when people get off work/school, and I'm sure we'll reach a Final Solution. In the mean time, I'm moving this to off topic.
Do you notice my WARN levels? It has reached 100%, and he reduced the level to re-warn. Am I too stupid or he plays too much with the mod tools? Are site administrators aware and agreeable with this? If 100% is a ban, why did he reduce to re-warn? Is the mod making his own party?
The moderator simply removed an old warning and issued a new one in the same action. I don't see the big deal.
Don't you think sometimes a moderator is harsh enough even on harmless topics?
Have you gotten censored? Did you go to the Recycle bin?
Why is it so harsh? Is it Dibrom dictatorial legacy?
It is possible; we are all human and there is some subjectivity to a moderator's response. Yes. Yes. Certainly not Dibrom, as he has not been active for probably two years.
The TOS parts (especially "no mod action discussion" etc..) probably was first introduced to prevent HA from the real idiots. But today it is used by german blockwart like people. Everything which doesn't go well with the typical HA/fb2k zealotry can easily be moderated. And, TOS7, you cannot criticize in public.
"german blockwart like people"? Nice. TOS #7 just stops mud being slung in public. If you have an issue it should be discussed in private with the mod, and escalated to the admin team if unresolved.
Quoting from one of user's here that PM'ed me:
"I once asked in "site related discussions" when I would lose my old 33% warning and declared (meant as a side blow), to never criticize anything again. Well I lost my warning, but the posting simply got deleted."
I deleted the thread. When I read the thread (I do read threads in Site Related Discussion) I removed the warning, as it was old. At that time the thread became irrelevant so I deleted it. I guess I could have posted to the thread and told him that I had removed the warning, but his warnometer is no-one else's business.
Another user who sent me a PM:
"Oh yeah, it's not recommened --xlevel as the default setting in HA.org, but however I recommended, it's just that HA has too many ignorant people to be arguing with..."
How is this relevant?! Wow, he has some beefs because the majority don't recommend --xlevel. Big hairy deal.
Oh yeah... this message might get deleted or moved. But if you read it, make a copy of it for you to see that we cannot discuss or criticize. You will see that it's the way I am saying. And probably I will get another warn level (but he will have to reduce again LOL).
I am personally very keen for general (not personal) issues to be discussed in Site Related Discussion. Members should feel that they have a voice. That said, I think that you have been so offensive in this thread that I cannot condone your actions. I would not be surprised if you are banned, which you seem to want.
I posted in this forum because it needs attention and "site related discussion" doesn't get any, so I posted here to make it appear on "Portal".
If "Site Related Discussion" does not get enough attention it is because users of the forum are quite happy with the way the forum is running and do not feel the need to be posting about it! I don't see how you can excuse deliberately posting to the wrong thread to get yourself more attention. And then double-posting (duplicate thread deleted by me).
Well call it a strike or whatever... but that is the way I found out to complain since people can't complain. you guys have applied for "Moderation" vacancies? I guess so, because you simply can't see away from your vision spot but just worship HA dickheads. Mike suggested a "ban", oh but yeah I am a candie... candidate to the Mod Team perhaps in a next future hmmm... Man why don't you ask the admin the Ban button in your finger so you can just press it? Since you like it so much, anyways, no use to ban me, since I can acess here through different networks. I can always come back, but if that's happening a lot of people read the topic and you guys will prove all the way I am so totally right about you.
HA dickheads? Nice.
good read over coffee, thanks.
I posted in this forum because it needs attention and "site related discussion" doesn't get any, so I posted here to make it appear on "Portal". Well Mike, you think he was justified probably because you think you are "too right" too?
Indybrett, well, doesn't make any sense. If I build my own house I make the rules for it, but I didn't know HA.org was a "building". Doesn't make sense because we're talking about how stupid restrictions are sometimes. But you seem to like dictatorship.
And Mike, the ADMINS know who are on a modding spree. So I won't tell you.
Didn't say HA was a building, but that would work. Could be building a web site, a football team, an interstate highways system. I only tried to answer your question in a polite way that might help you to see why you are wrong. That you think it doesn't make any sense indicates why you are having "issues".
this is the worst "injustice" i've ever seen!
OMG how do you go on living!
LOL
I will say that, at least with what Bourne's examples sound like, the moderation seems somewhat capricious. What I mean by that is that there are many posts that slide by nowadays that would be moderated out if given the same treatment. (I've had my fair share of inane and meaningless posts, and so far I've managed to avoid the Recycle Bin entirely, amazingly enough.)
Still, I enjoy the moderation style. The signal-to-noise ratio of posts here is far higher than on other forums, and in large part, that's because people here seem to shut their stupid mouths if they don't have anything useful to contribute. Compare that to Head-Fi and SH.tv, where it seems like a dozen people wish to make their presence known on a regular basis.
Axon: Moderation can't be 100% fair and uniform. Us moderators are different, and each of us can't read all of HA. Maybe I'll clamp down on something that other mods let slide, but that's just the way it is, unless we employ paid full time moderators from different time zones.
I like the way this Popsicle-stand is run. HA is a knowledge based forum. It is designed for people that actually search the forum before posting. If the mods split the threads or remove posts, bless'em, because it becomes real frustrating when one hasn't the faintest idea of where a discussion is going! [I personally wish more threads were renamed to better explain what the person was asking, because "I don't know what to do! Help!" doesn't scream out to me that this thread might have the information I am looking for. Same goes for when the OP starts asking a whole lotta questions far outside the scope of his original post.]
There are no opinions (except to that of preference to codec), meaning you either present facts, ideas, suggestions, etc. HA requires you to post said facts, and when questioned or disagreed with, you should have something to support your said facts. This doesn't allow trolling and flaming to occur if you remember this is a resource for the audio technology enthusiast.
(http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/style_images/logos.png)
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I will say that, at least with what Bourne's examples sound like, the moderation seems somewhat capricious. What I mean by that is that there are many posts that slide by nowadays that would be moderated out if given the same treatment. (I've had my fair share of inane and meaningless posts, and so far I've managed to avoid the Recycle Bin entirely, amazingly enough.)
Still, I enjoy the moderation style. The signal-to-noise ratio of posts here is far higher than on other forums, and in large part, that's because people here seem to shut their stupid mouths if they don't have anything useful to contribute. Compare that to Head-Fi and SH.tv, where it seems like a dozen people wish to make their presence known on a regular basis.
If Bourne were to complain like this on stevehoffman.tv, about its moderation policies, I guarantee that he'd have been banned within hours, and the thread would have gone down the memory hole.
From what I've seen of Bourne's posts here, and recall of them, he struck me as perhaps a borderline troll, but I thought it was really a language issue. Now I'm not so sure.
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Since I started posting here I got warned twice.
The first one was a harsh thing because of something pretty innocent that was understood like a strong TOS violation (of course in my opinion). The second one was a deserved warning, I admit.
At the time I got offended and posted publicly in the forum about the warnings and the thread was deleted (not even moved to the recycle bin) almost immediatly.
I contacted the moderation both times I was warned and I never got a "polite fuck off and obey me" attitude. Actually moderation was very polite and explained perfectly clearly the reasons for the warnings and I really appreciated that.
After that I was able to properly analyze what happened and realized that moderation acted in the best interest of the forum community, so I am satisfied with the way things were handled in my case.
That taught me something: think before posting. Now I just post if I have something useful to add.
Bourne, I don't know what happened in your case but I can tell you something: moderation is responsible for keeping things sane in this forum and I personally think that they do a very good job.
yeah, in the end, I agree wholeheartedly with what Jens, krab, and beto have said. No moderation is perfect, but this forum is easily the best administered audio forum I've ever had the pleasure of taking part in.
I don't know what the big deal is. This is a knowledge based forum. If you have nothing useful/factual to add to the discussion, then don't type a response. If you don't like the moderators, leave.
Also don't be too quick to assume that we cannot speak your language.
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I'll edit mine, too.
You know Bourne, besides that creepy cat avatar, you often had good suggestions. They weren't always on topic or complete, but usually the replies were short enough and to the point---got the idea across.
This place does not limit information, regulates the presentation of the information. Otherwise we get far too many people posting the same questions over and over... like "how do I split an APE with a CUE?"
The comment about the avatar stays. :-P
right now... I wished I could have a "Cancel Account" button...
Hey Bourne. Calm down man! You may end up being banned!
I kind of like your postings but... you are not perfect. The moderators are not perfect. So once in a while some "discrepancies" will occur. At this time the best is to cool down, walk away and practice some tolerance.
I was warned once (for offending innocent audiophiles. ) But overall I find that HA mods are quite tolerant.
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I will apologize, my recent comment was nothing more than an attack. But you've since edited your comments directed towards me. In turn, I have edited mine.
If you have valued information, present it. Again, I find this forum to be about accessing information efficiently. Not knowing the actual problem here, all I gather is that you have said something impolite, too far off topic, or bashed something---I don't know.
I am pretty sure I have had plenty of my threads washed down memory lane (maybe not deleted or recycled). It did not bother me in the least; either no one knew, no one cared, or no one figured it was practical. I made other solutions from other sections of the site.
What kind of door out should there be? To leave... just don't log in. Why should there be a "you can never log in again" button? Besides, all your posts would stay regardless because they contain beneficial information to the topic. I really do not understand how there is a problem with this site. The rules are in place to ensure the efficient discussion of audio technology and information.
And the comment about the cat stays. :-P
-Hain
right now... I wished I could have a "Cancel Account" button.
1) Change email address to gibberish.
2) Change password to gibebrish.
3) Log out.
Did you really need that explained to you?
For some reason I can't find those buttons here in this damn forum, so that is why I can't just "leave".
Yes because a leave button is necessary for you to turn off your computer and go outside.
I don't know who you are or what you're complaining about but honestly the fact that you posted this thread probably means whatever they moderated you for was justified.
That's like saying, I don't know what Gary Kasparov is complaining about, but the fact that he's on TV talking about it probably means whatever he was arrested for was justified.
Because disagreeing with someone on the internet is just like going to jail.
This reasoning is so belittling to people like Kasparov I'm actually mildly disgusted with you as a human being.
Haven't been on here much in last couple years but the mod's have been generally pretty tolerant and fair from what I've seen. As far as site improvements go, how about adding ...
TOS #15: No member shall mention TOS violations by other members unless he/she has (a) been elevated to a minimum of moderator status or (b) been a member for at least 2 years
I don't know about you guys but I get tired of seeing gung ho rookies screening for TOS violations ... especially in regards to #8.
I wouldn't generalize at all. I point out problems because the question leads to this. That doesn't mean the moderation as a whole doesn't make a good job all in all and in everyday business.
"German blockwart" - rotfl, yes, I was sometimes thinking we maybe have a german problem. Postings from people telling about rock solid principles, yes, that's likely to be from the german side. They more seldom tend to connive things. This is not always bad, but as well not always good.
The media and being a human being is a source of the problem. A forum starts from scratch, and the more time people spend on the forum, people see newbies quicker and more radical below them. We all know the tendency of HA and fb2k feeling superior. This may be a source of the highly undemocratic TOS#7: criticism in mod action not allowed, because you folks can be sure, you are not worth criticising us, who have way more experience and knowledge and wisdom. TOS#7 is a real problem because it allows e.g. to immediately close this thread. I would allow mod action criticism to go to site related discussions.
Some topics get locked too soon, because of some simple triggers. Someone asked about foo_fullscreen replacement or alternative ideas and the topic got locked because of the "banned component" trigger.
EDIT: TOO OFFTOPIC.On a OT-sidenote: Did latest fb2k beta get extra code to ban the component from the software side? It tells the component has been removed despite it's there...
Haven't been on here much in last couple years but the mod's have been generally pretty tolerant and fair from what I've seen. As far as site improvements go, how about adding ...
TOS #15: No member shall mention TOS violations by other members unless he/she has (a) been elevated to a minimum of moderator status or (b) been a member for at least 2 years
I don't know about you guys but I get tired of seeing gung ho rookies screening for TOS violations ... especially in regards to #8.
Amen.
"How does it sound?" is by nature subjective. Providing objective evidence for an opinion doesn't really change the fact that it's still an opinion. I'm old and I blew out my hearing in the 60's. Even if couched in statistics, my opinions are likely irrelevant to everyone here. I know and accept that.
I've mentioned this once or twice before and the moderators were gracious enough not to declare me a blasphemer. I appreciate the moderators and the work they do here.
Woody
"a language issue" haha... I can speak your language
After a fashion, I suppose.
and you cannot speak mine.
True, but I don't try to.
you write from your pedestal too, get down from there. troll? ha... about almost anything in this whole site can be labelled a "troll". oh what's that button, - that's a troll. troll troll troll, everything here is interpreted as trolling...
Tend much to overstatement?
I wouldn't generalize at all.
OK, great.
"German blockwart" - rotfl, yes, I was sometimes thinking we maybe have a german problem. Postings from people telling about rock solid principles, yes, that's likely to be from the german side. They more seldom tend to connive things. This is not always bad, but as well not always good.
But you wouldn't generalize at all.
"How does it sound?" is by nature subjective. Providing objective evidence for an opinion doesn't really change the fact that it's still an opinion.
Is an opinion independently supported by facts no more compelling to you, than one that isn't?
I love this place precisely because it offers an alternative to the gush of totally subjective, sighted-comparison *opinions* that constitute 'information' and 'discussion' on most other audio sites.Which, to me, are utterly
useless.
If you need that sort of input, there's
plenty of other places to go (some of which have moderation policies more draconian than here, be warned). HA is a rarity, there's
no need to make it more 'subjectivist'-friendly.
"How does it sound?" is by nature subjective. Providing objective evidence for an opinion doesn't really change the fact that it's still an opinion.
Is an opinion independently supported by facts no more compelling to you, than one that isn't?
I love this place precisely because it offers an alternative to the gush of totally subjective, sighted-comparison *opinions* that constitute 'information' and 'discussion' on most other audio sites.Which, to me, are utterly useless.
If you need that sort of input, there's plenty of other places to go (some of which have moderation policies more draconian than here, be warned). HA is a rarity, there's no need to make it more 'subjectivist'-friendly.
Ouch !
Thanks for the warning.
> Saved warn logs: Bourne
Warned by Notes
--- Warned on Dec 4 2007, 03:11
Added to warn level Trolling: http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=59427 (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=59427)
Fixed the link - and yea - you should be warned for that.
So let me get this straight - you violated the rules enough to deserve a ban - they cut you some slack - and that is reason to complain?
HA is, IMHO, a model forum when it comes to rules and moderation.
For one thing I know, blunt stupid moderation is for the "SS".
Perhaps TOS #15 should be Goodwin.
Perhaps TOS #15 should be Goodwin.
This Goodwin rule might be good, but Godwin would work better
Perhaps TOS #15 should be Goodwin.
This Goodwin rule might be good, but Godwin would work better
So not only did I fub the spelling, I get it immortalized in your quote!
Too late to edit.
right now... I wished I could have a "Cancel Account" button. And I also wished a "Remove All Own Posts" button. For some reason I can't find those buttons here in this damn forum, so that is why I can't just "leave". As for the language, no you can't speak it.
Actually, if I recall correctly, some time ago, I remember seeing a person who claims to be a recording engineer post some false information about CDs. His position was debunked, and about a day later, all seven or so of his posts are gone, along with his account. I don't know how he did it, but I believe he really did delete his account, but I think it would entail deleting every single post you have ever made first.
We never delete accounts. Offensive posts are usually moved to recycle bin, which is readable by the public. There's another "recycle bin" which isn't readable by the public, but nothing is every truly deleted here.
I can't tell you how that account and the posts made from it disappeared, but it isn't standard practice.
HA is a joy.
The moderation is quite transparent and fair. Even deleted threads are there for all to see. Even threads like this one can exist.
In contrast, I find tip toe-ing around some of the moderation on doom9 quite painful. I recently apologised for inadvertently getting someone warned, explaining that I didn't think any offence was meant by them, and none was taken by me - as a result I got a warning for "questioning a moderation decision". Heaven forbid I should ever ask what the best way to do something is!
I'm very grateful for HA. Nowhere is perfect, but it's great.
I don't think people should be prevented from pointing out TOS to other members. It can get petty, and it should be done politely, but banning it altogether would be silly and unhelpful.
Cheers,
David.
I got a strike for posting in a configuration thread - Wouldn't it be more appropriate just to delete the post then (the post itself was a helpful answer on another post)?
I got a strike for posting in a configuration thread - Wouldn't it be more appropriate just to delete the post then (the post itself was a helpful answer on another post)?
Sorry but I don't know what a "configuration thread" is. Could someone enlighten me?
I got a strike for posting in a configuration thread - Wouldn't it be more appropriate just to delete the post then (the post itself was a helpful answer on another post)?
Sorry but I don't know what a "configuration thread" is. Could someone enlighten me?
They belong to the foobar2000 forum.
Heh, funny read. The irony is that the issues which i had with moderation in the past, was that i considered some of them too altruistic and tolerant in their mentality, lol.
The foobar2000 forums are just hosted on hydrogenaudio. They are not moderated by hydrogenaudio, so whatever happens there, isn't in direct relation to HA.
Overall, I like the way moderation runs here. As stated several times, these forums are about information ( news, resources, technical research/development), and not so much about oppinions.
It is important the way one writes the posts. As much as that some of the TOS require a) posts only in english and b) correct spelling as much as the user is able to (no slangs).
It is possible that if your firsts posts are already close to, or violating any TOS, further moderations on you will be less polite in order to make you aware that you really need to change.
And that's what I believe the OP has experienced.
I don't remember being warn any time, and I sure was in the edge sometimes (starting/continuing flames, or making offensive posts due to being in bad mood) so i don't have a reason to talk agains the moderators.
So resuming: I don't thing the trend is erroneous, and if any concrete case is happening, it has to be taken to other moderators or admins since I don't feel this is more dictatorial than what a democracy is about.
I personally think the moderation here is quite fair. However, I've had issues on some other forums etc. and have found it futile to question the judgements of mods. They are like the police. Just accept the decision. There is nothing you can do.
reread the TOS.
if you feel like your actions did not violate the rules here then:
1> PM the mod for clarification.
2> if that isn't satisfactory then PM another mod.
3> if that still isn't satisfactory then suck it up and realize you are in the wrong.
4> if you can't do 1-2 then skip directly to 3
notice that there wasn't a "poor me" posting option?
later
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There is a second bin which can only be viewed by admin and mods; nothing gets deleted here. If some of your posts "disappeared" then it was determined that they provided no benefit to this forum.
EDIT: I guess you aren't reading all the responses to this uplifting thread you started...
We never delete accounts. Offensive posts are usually moved to recycle bin, which is readable by the public. There's another "recycle bin" which isn't readable by the public, but nothing is every truly deleted here.
all I know is that right now there is a post eraser... just realized some of mine simply disappeared without notice...(they're not even in the bin)
I looked into it.
You have made a totalt of 4 posts that have been deleted (excluding posts that have ended up the in public recycle bin).
Sep 20 2007: Some ABX results I'm not sure why was deleted.
Oct 7 2007: Off-topic comment "TAK is faster... :-)"
Dec 18 2007: reply to to a spam thread that got deleted including your answer
Dec 21 2007: Double post of the first posts in this thread
Any of those posts you really miss? Are you claming more posts than those were deleted?
Sep 20 2007: Some ABX results I'm not sure why was deleted.
Seems to be linked to this curious thread (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=57631). Maybe the wrong thread got deleted?
NB: Two of those four posts were TOS breaks... I reported earlier in this thread that I had deleted its duplicate, so that's only three unexplained really...
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The post that vanished was from the topic http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....c=60226&hl= (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=60226&hl=)
the one who we were talking about a 500kbps VBR LAME format...
It was something like "pushing to bitrates larger than 320kbps breaks full compatibility with MP3 decoders and a new format of MP3 would have been more appropriate to be..."
Hmmm perhaps I deleted myself or the net connection broke.... without actually posting...
I can't find the post you are referring to. Unless someone deliberately deleted it permanently (requires you to deleted it first in the original location then delete it in the hidden recycle bin so it doesn't happen by accident) then you are wrong.
PS: I just noticed greynol has become super moddie.
Bad? Good? Let us know what you think...
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@greynol: "the uplifting thread I started".... this might be interpreted as something that I just said... another attack... it's small, it's very small, very tiny... still an attack...
It's sarcasm, Bourne, and it also happens to be true.
We needed more mods and we found him qualified and he has done a great job as far as I can see.
Wouldn't you find it logical that we chose someone that seems to agree with the way we do things here? If you find being asked to be a moderator too much of a reward I don't think you understand how much time some of our mods spend on making this place useful.
If you have suggestions for other people you'd like see as moderators (since it appears you disapprove of the choice of greynol) please let me know. We always need more qualified hands.
btw.: I figured out that I could check all moderation actions on a particular thread. I checked the thread you linked to. No moderation/deletion have been done.
Note to self: figure out what the point of this thread was in the first place.
It may be time to consider closing this thread. Can anything helpful come from continued discussion? Only my opinion. Agree... Disagree.... I got a thick hide. You won't hurt my feelings. Thank you.
Yes closing of this thread seems to be where this is going.
If you think the Terms of Service can be improved you are welcome to make suggestions with a detailed explanation as to why certain rules are in your opinion counterproductive. However the principles behind the TOS are not up for discussion.
If you have issues with specific moderation decisions (something that actually happened) you can contact an admin and explain why you think certain action was not in accordance with the TOS. Again the TOS itself is not up for discussion however invalid you think it is.
Some advise: If you wish to actually have something changed I think your attitude is extremely counterproductive. You insult people as soon as they don't agree with you, and you deliberately break the Terms of Service if you feel like it. Would you rather see HA filled with this kind of behavior than risking the moderating team coming across as harsh once in a while?
As you might have noticed in this thread there are at least some people that don't want HA to go that way.
If there are anyone that have general suggestions for changes to the TOS they can make a thread or contact an admin.
I'd like if people stopped posting in this thread if they have nothing contructive to contribute.
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I read Hydrogenaudio before registering for years. This place is rare oasis in the internet that have really valuable information, would that be comparison of audio codecs or finding what chip some audio hardware utilize or something else. That this community is such a useful place is in my opinion much because of very good, if not excellent moderation.
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Here we have common sense, logic and intelligent conversation - a very rare thing in a sea of forums where anyone can say just about anything and it goes on record as if it were fact...
Oh, there's plenty of that (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=60294&view=findpost&p=540073) here, just not regarding subjective listening. These are usually the types of situations (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=60224&view=findpost&p=539385) where you'll find me giving "blunt" responses.
It may be time to consider closing this thread. Can anything helpful come from continued discussion?
Why? Generally spoken: "You never know". I recommend to be very careful in thread closing. The advantage of web based forums over Usenet is, you can have a rebirth of any forgotten topic and bump the thread to top. Especially people who want to have a "proper library order" like www forum (and I see such tendencies in the moderatorship here) should be happy about this possibility, because people do not have to start similar threads again (in theory and if they know how searching works).
If you don't like the moderators, leave.
That's the bottom line in any internet forum. I've never known of anyone whose life depended on the status of a forum account.
I've never thought of moderators or admins here as "dictatorial" in any way. Firm? Yes. But in my opinion "firm" is good for a specialized technology forum with a membership of users
and developers. I've had differences with people here, and I've gently reminded a few other members (and even a couple of moderators) about a particular term of service on whose edge they were treading too closely. But nothing I've seen in my six years here indicates continually foul conduct by any member or mod. Regarding attitudes, I would say things have generally improved in the past 2-3 years - not even that they really needed to. I've never received a warning or any other administrative action, even in cases when I thought I had been too harsh. For that reason, when someone
does get warned or banned, I tend to believe the cause was acted upon validly.
HA management tends to be patient and tolerant to a reasonable point. What more would you expect or want from any forum on the internet? And just as any sensible person would do anywhere in the world, if you don't like it in one place, then go somewhere else. It's as simple as that.
I've seen both sides of the coin here on H.A. and can honestly say that mods' / admin' here deal with tough topics in a fair and even-handed way, even when they disagree with me :-)
In short, H.A. is the 'best of breed' in online A/V forums!
Andrew D.
www.cdnav.com
Bout' time I get an avatar...
Whilst the moderation can seem quite strict, it does at least keep the SNR decent compared to most other forums.