it seems the play buttons have all changed, any particular reason...
otherwise 9.5 b4 is running well no issues reported so far
Why not use some simple black glyph icons instead of those awkward bubbles? Preferably, these shouldnt be hardcoded at all.
Why not use some simple black glyph icons instead of those awkward bubbles? Preferably, these shouldnt be hardcoded at all.
I am wondering about the same thing, why change it?
I really hope that 0.9.5 final will have the possibility to customize the buttons.
I really hope that 0.9.5 final will have the possibility to customize the buttons.
Same here.
I actually prefer these to the ones in beta 3, but having oblong buttons is strange.
EDIT: Whoa, I like the search function tweaks. Now I wish more than even that it was a permanent field instead of a separate window.
Please make the buttons customizable!
also the buttons in beta 4 are stretched.
Yeah, they look like ellipses.
Hmm, F3 opens Playlist Search, though unlisted in the keyboard shortcuts.
edit: typo
The new buttons look horrible, they wide and making foobar look like a bloated n00b player like iTunes or Winamp.
In my opinion, the old buttons fit the simple and neutral appearance of foobar2000 better than the new ones.
OT: Great piece of code, nonetheless. I didn't say it before, but the layout editing mode is one of the most innovative features I ever encountered in any software.
fooruncle
I like the style of the new ones better. Although I agree that their shape's odd.
In my opinion, the old buttons fit the simple and neutral appearance of foobar2000 better than the new ones.
Yes, the very simple fb2k 0.8 ones.
I like the new buttons.
Although I am still in favor of customizable buttons if possible.
Either way, thanks to all the developers for all their great work.
the new buttons threw off my appearance config a tad, so I'll have to figure it out again.
the new ones aren't bad, but I agree that it should be user preference.
Although I think that the toolbar buttons should be customizable, I think Foobar needs a good default set. Why not use icons from the Tango! project? (http://tango.freedesktop.org/Tango_Icon_Library) They are released under a CC license. They look nice imo, they blend in well with the overall Windows GUI and they are easy on the eyes. The buttons from 0.8xx could be included as a "retro set" or something. Just my 2 cents.
omg, the new buttons are ugly
old buttons in final plz
omg, the new buttons are ugly
old buttons in final plz
+1
I just liked the others: plain and simple and most importantly, circular.
These ones are bulky, oblong and I hate the gradient.
These belong in winamp, not foobar2000.
Did someone request it to be changed? Or was it a dev idea?
+1 vote for the new icons.
i wouldn't mind the new ones if they were smaller and actually circular, they do look pretty nice.
@devs:
You are free do to what you want. It's your baby!
Imho an announcement that buttons will be changed would have been nice. They didn't fit my layout so i had to make some minor changes. No reason to start a war about button layout, though. They remainded pretty simple and functional and that's important.
But it lead me to an idea: how about bringing all toolbar items to the same default width? Or at least while you rezise them by dragging with the mouse let them "hang" shortly in a width that fits all other toolbar items?
Buttons, Layout Editing Mode Toggle and Playback Order have almost the same minimum width, so why not bring them to the same common denominator?
If anybody likes this idea: should we start a new thread about it?
@newbuttonhaters:
Switch to columns_ui if you want custom buttons or stick with what the devs make up in their spare-time and give to you for free!
Or go back and stay on beta 3...
@devs:You are free do to what you want. It's your baby!
Thanks, Captain Obvious!
Personally I'm surprised how many people like the new buttons which we see on xp systems since 0.9 (W2K showed the old, simple black ones)... I thought anyone liked the old black ones, which are simple and neat, no alphablending crap on the edges... Non bloated icons for a non bloated player!
I thought anyone liked the old black ones, which are simple and neat, no alphablending crap on the edges... Non bloated icons for a non bloated player!
Thank you, Captain Propaganda, but aren't you getting a bit carried away?
No I don't think so, Captain Codemaster , and btw theres no Propaganda but also no brownnosing here.
IMO the old plain black buttons and fb2k just go well together. Much more like the new ones. Just an opinion.
I also vote for plain old simple black buttons (of 0.8 version). They look so much better.
The new icons (of beta 4) are absolutely terrible.
Didn't like these new buttons either...
This is the order of my preference:
0.8 > 0.9.5b4 > 0.9
0.8 they're plain and simple and go with anything (UI theme that is)
0.9 they're just ugly because they're very pixelated
0.9.5b4 they match the XP style theme (and not much else), but they have better anti-aliasing than the 0.9 ones, so they don't insult my eyes that much
Like the new buttons! Thanks for the best player, editor, convertor, etc... with great buttons as well.
cheers,
herefornow
where did my random button go? : [
where did my random button go? : [
It's still to the right of to the Play/Pause button.
The buttons are ugly but really don't mind as the playback buttons start playback and the others do their job. The only reason i post here is to express my hope that "Feature: Custom toolbar buttons (considered for post-0.9.5)" don't mean just change playback buttons but offers creating buttons for any main or context menu wich is more important than just an optical change. It seems to me that "customized buttons" are more needed for customizing than for adding more functionality.
it's a dirty hack, but if you open up foo_ui_std.dll in a resource editor you can change the buttons.
Although I think that the toolbar buttons should be customizable, I think Foobar needs a good default set. Why not use icons from the Tango! project? (http://tango.freedesktop.org/Tango_Icon_Library) They are released under a CC license. They look nice imo, they blend in well with the overall Windows GUI and they are easy on the eyes. The buttons from 0.8xx could be included as a "retro set" or something. Just my 2 cents.
I already suggested that in the main thread and tango definitely won't make its way into fb2k... I just used the reshack method suggested by unkwn, and guess what: it turned out that the new icons are oval not because they were drawn that way, but...
(http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/662/clipboard01kf8.th.png) (http://img219.imageshack.us/my.php?image=clipboard01kf8.png)
... because any icon is displayed that way: the tango icons are distorted as well! So this seems to be a bug.
frncle
Another "the beta 4 buttons are no improvement at all".
Could be they fit the Vista or some Mickey Mouse style, they don't look so good on my "Classic Look" systems.
Then again, those buttons are not very important to me, not like e.g. single key (non-global) shortcuts interfering with the search window
... because any icon is displayed that way: the tango icons are distorted as well! So this seems to be a bug.
Not a bug. The icons in beta 4
are drawn that way, and their size is hardcoded in foo_ui_std, so any icons you use as replacement will be displayed using the same (non-square) size as well.
the simple solution is to use an icon editor to pad your icons with invisible space to make them the right size.
Or draw\print the icons on a piece of paper and stick it to your monitor.
Plus side being its "Always on Top"
Not a bug. The icons in beta 4 are drawn that way, and their size is hardcoded in foo_ui_std, so any icons you use as replacement will be displayed using the same (non-square) size as well.
Forgive me, but that's
retarded. The shape and appearance of icons should be determined in the icon files or data themselves, not anywhere else.
I really have to wonder what the reasoning behind that choice is, because it seems like a poor one to me.
Not a bug. The icons in beta 4 are drawn that way, and their size is hardcoded in foo_ui_std, so any icons you use as replacement will be displayed using the same (non-square) size as well.
Forgive me, but that's retarded. The shape and appearance of icons should be determined in the icon files or data themselves, not anywhere else.
I really have to wonder what the reasoning behind that choice is, because it seems like a poor one to me.
You can't blame the developers for an issue with a hack that isn't actually supported. Obviously the real solution is for the developers to implement custom buttons.
... because any icon is displayed that way: the tango icons are distorted as well! So this seems to be a bug.
Not a bug. The icons in beta 4 are drawn that way, and their size is hardcoded in foo_ui_std, so any icons you use as replacement will be displayed using the same (non-square) size as well.
That came to my mind when I lay on my mattress half asleep. I passed the last exams of a long and difficult training yesterday and could think very clearly when I posted that... Sorry!
@emon: Why should a system that's not intended to be changed be ready for icons of all sizes? The rest of the layout depends on a predictable button size.
I'll try the icon editor approach today.
frncle
---------- edit:
foobar2000 + IcoFX + ResHacker + Tango = foobar tango'd (incl. a home-cooked 'random' button )
Voilà:
- left: first try
- center: Improved 'random' button (visual metaphor now) based on the tango mail-send-receive icon (recoloured, resized)
- right: arrows seperated, two slightly different variants
(http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/1853/clipboard01ob0.th.png) (http://img265.imageshack.us/my.php?image=clipboard01ob0.png) (http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/3702/clipboard01df5.png) (http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/3412/clipboard01jf1.png) (http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/7720/clipboard01ou7.png)
i like those. thank you, tango team.
fooruncle
One more vote for the 0.9.5b3 buttons. Or the choice between the old and new.
Obviously the real solution is for the developers to implement custom buttons.
And I don't understand why that hasn't been done. Weren't custom buttons supported in previous versions?
Obviously the real solution is for the developers to implement custom buttons.
And I don't understand why that hasn't been done. Weren't custom buttons supported in previous versions?
I'm not sure whether buttons were customizable in the old Default UI or not (and can't be bothered to reinstall 9.4.5 to find out), but they certainly were (and are) with other user interfaces.
Obviously the real solution is for the developers to implement custom buttons.
And I don't understand why that hasn't been done. Weren't custom buttons supported in previous versions?
No, 3rd party UI only.
Forgive me, but that's retarded. The shape and appearance of icons should be determined in the icon files or data themselves, not anywhere else.
I really have to wonder what the reasoning behind that choice is, because it seems like a poor one to me.
Easy. They're not meant to be replaced. If you're going to go messing around with the executable, expect unusual results.
You don't honestly expect developers to anticipate executable modifications, do you? Forgive me, but something's retarded here, and it's not the way Peter's handling things.
And I don't understand why that hasn't been done. Weren't custom buttons supported in previous versions?
For the umpteenth time: No, the Default User Interface never had customizable toolbar buttons before. You are thinking of Columns UI. As for why it is not done yet: Some features are deliberately left out of 0.9.5, because we want to get it out in finite time.
yo these new icons are not really good looking and whoever made them should consider a minimal lackluster set that has no way of really pissing anyone off because there wont be anything to complain about. and if its too minimal for them, panels is still open for use.
but golly, these icons are truly an eyesore on the mostly wonderful default ui.
I think what people put off about the new buttons is
A) the non-square shape
B) the shading (similar negative reactions as with the new icon set)
So are those really the buttons for the final release?
Those new icons really look awful, they are not only squashed, but also have the unnecessary and ugly "vista" (or better call it "stupid") gloss/shading (same as the new file icon set, it not only looks awful, but also lowers readability), the tango icons posted in this post and the tango file icons (in the file upload section of the forum), same as the old file icons look way, WAY better. I only hope those icons are not final, otherwise the customizable buttons would be badly needed. For now, thank God for ResHacker.
Enjoy new cool buttons in beta 5: http://www.foobar2000.org/beta/index.html (http://www.foobar2000.org/beta/index.html)
^arg beat me to it.
Nice buttons in the new beta. Wahoo.
Yes, they are way better.
Awesome buttons, thanks a lot for listening to feedback and reacting!
Pretty low contrast though, this should be a problem for people with low vision - maybe you should make the buttons black, not white?
The beta 5 buttons are just awful. They couldn't be any plainer, than if I hand drew them on scratch paper. Thanks everyone, you all got what you wished for!
Yes the new buttons are perfect for me, too.
Yes, that's what buttons in non-skinnable applications should look like: clean, simple, neutral!
Thank you!
fooruncle
Yes! Liking the new buttons. The oval shape and the gradient made beta 4 buttons look cheap. Thanks for listening to feedback.
good job on the new buttons, they are so much better now
thanks for removing the horrible beta4 buttons, those new ones are clearly better, but it still i'd love to see the old ones again.
Liking the new buttons in beta5! Thanks
I kind of think the beta5 buttons don't fit with the regular old "Windows Classic" colour scheme at all; not that it really matters.
Regardless, I present the following question:
I read that the new default interface was made to be user-friendly before anything else, and many features were left out deliberately because of this. Is custom buttons one of these features?
I wouldn't think so, but maybe I don't fit in with the demographic that "user-friendly" is marketed to.
Maybe not the best set of buttons, but really good compared to the previous one!
Thanks!
the new buttons in beta 5 could be smoother a bit, imo, and now playing triangle with inner shadow doesn't look well on a dark playlist layout
Regardless, I present the following question:
I read that the new default interface was made to be user-friendly before anything else, and many features were left out deliberately because of this. Is custom buttons one of these features?
I wouldn't think so, but maybe I don't fit in with the demographic that "user-friendly" is marketed to.
Has already been answered before: http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....st&p=531492 (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=59138&view=findpost&p=531492)
the new buttons in beta 5 could be smoother a bit, imo, and now playing triangle with inner shadow doesn't look well on a dark playlist layout
Hm, I got a dark background in my playlists and I like the way the play/pause buttons fit in with the inner shading.
Besides, now the buttons are
not cropped anymore (top/bottom) like the ones before. It was even worse when you double-clicked the playing column delimter (top/bottom/left/right cropped).
thx for the new buttons in beta5, i like them much better.
i do think they might look better black, but the way they are is just fine.
loving the new buttons, thanks for listening to the feedback!!
Although I had to change my colour scheme to accommodate them, the new buttons are nice.
Nice than before.....but
A little round corner is much better.....I supposed
I like the B5 buttons better than B4, thx.
The "low contrast" remark is valid though, especially in the playlistview "playing" column. Wouldn't black or "same as font color" be better still?
It seems impossible to please everybody (except maybe making it customizable)
The beta 5 buttons are just awful. They couldn't be any plainer, than if I hand drew them on scratch paper. Thanks everyone, you all got what you wished for!
If you're looking for eye candy, why are you using the std_ui? It's _supposed_ to be plain.
The beta 5 buttons are just awful. They couldn't be any plainer, than if I hand drew them on scratch paper. Thanks everyone, you all got what you wished for!
If you're looking for eye candy, why are you using the std_ui? It's _supposed_ to be plain.
See, the thing is, I'm not looking for eye candy. I just don't like plain vanilla, and the NEW standard UI is not vanilla anymore. So, like Goldilocks, I want something that is neither eye candy, nor plain vanilla. I want it "just right!", Hopefully, Peter will come up with a style that everyone can live with.
But, thanks for asking!
See, the thing is, I'm not looking for eye candy. I just don't like plain vanilla, and the NEW standard UI is not vanilla anymore. So, like Goldilocks, I want something that is neither eye candy, nor plain vanilla. I want it "just right!", Hopefully, Peter will come up with a style that everyone can live with.
'Just right' is a matter of taste.
Taste should not be an argument here: what's more important is that applications that are not skinnable and customizable should use standard Windows UI elements to fit to as many visual styles as possible. If standard elements aren't available (like in the case of the buttons), neutral styles like the b5 buttons are the best solution. That's all. As soon as people can change the buttons easily, anything goes.
fooruncle
See, the thing is, I'm not looking for eye candy. I just don't like plain vanilla, and the NEW standard UI is not vanilla anymore. So, like Goldilocks, I want something that is neither eye candy, nor plain vanilla. I want it "just right!", Hopefully, Peter will come up with a style that everyone can live with.
'Just right' is a matter of taste.
Taste should not be an argument here: what's more important is that applications that are not skinnable and customizable should use standard Windows UI elements to fit to as many visual styles as possible. If standard elements aren't available (like in the case of the buttons), neutral styles like the b5 buttons are the best solution. That's all. As soon as people can change the buttons easily, anything goes.
fooruncle
Agreed. as to your last sentence, but I think the buttons used in version 0.9.4.5 were a good compromise and more in line with the look of the new standard UI. They were not gawdy or eye candy, but were easy on the eye in terms of color contrast. Personally, I'll use foobar2000 with whatever buttons are offered. Just as everyone else here in this topic complained about the preceding buttons, I am just voicing my complaint about this set of buttons. "Just right" in my case is a neutral Windows UI element, just not the one in beta 5.
i would like to see the return of those fancy ascii buttons.
I put these together in paint real quick. Maybe if you just kept all the icons as simple glyphs, you could make them color adjustable so they could fit into anyone's theme (you could set the glyph and shadow color under "Colors and Fonts" or maybe just inherit them from system colors).
(http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/240/foobuttonsshadcl6.png)
Use Columns UI or Panels UI if you guys want to change the appearance of the buttons.
I vote for 'customization' in a way that you can add/remove/re-aarange the buttons, (like when you customize the toolbar buttons in windows explorer) but the button appearance should remain as-is.
Like I said there are components for customizing the appearance of the buttons, use them if you can't deal with the default set provided with foobar, its as easy as that.
Use Columns UI or Panels UI if you guys want to change the appearance of the buttons.
I vote for 'customization' in a way that you can add/remove/re-aarange the buttons, (like when you customize the toolbar buttons in windows explorer) but the button appearance should remain as-is.
Like I said there are components for customizing the appearance of the buttons, use them if you can't deal with the default set provided with foobar, its as easy as that.
you're on a "blondes are stupid" level of argumentation.
I have no real problem with the new buttons (maybe they're wider than their height, not very much to my liking but not a serious problem either) other than that the 'play' button doesn't fit in the 'playing' column where it should But reading the future plans for the new default UI it won't be a problem as I saw there that the devs are planning on highlighting the actually playing track in the playlist switcher - which is good and that's exactly the way I used my foobar before 0.9.5 (with columns UI) - use of 'playing' column is just a makeshift.
Easy. They're not meant to be replaced.
Obviously. But they should be, considering the demand for such a feature, they ought to consider it. One way or another, the developers do "serve" the community. The community has no "right" to demand anything, of course, but if the developers want to continue to have such a great fan base, they need to consider the suggestions of users (as they always have, in this case).
You don't honestly expect developers to anticipate executable modifications, do you? Forgive me, but something's retarded here, and it's not the way Peter's handling things.
What? Where did I mention anything about modifying the executable? I'm pointing out that customizable icons would be (or should be, barring any strange complications) trivial to implement.
The beta 5 buttons are just awful. They couldn't be any plainer, than if I hand drew them on scratch paper. Thanks everyone, you all got what you wished for!
If you're looking for eye candy, why are you using the std_ui? It's _supposed_ to be plain.
See, the thing is, I'm not looking for eye candy. I just don't like plain vanilla, and the NEW standard UI is not vanilla anymore. So, like Goldilocks, I want something that is neither eye candy, nor plain vanilla. I want it "just right!", Hopefully, Peter will come up with a style that everyone can live with.
But, thanks for asking!
i tend to agree with drbeachboy...
not a fan of the beta 5 buttons at all, they do look cheap and hand drawn.
i was just starting to get used to the slightly odd shaped, but overall better looking beta 4 buttons. ah well...
good thing i don't use foobar for it's looks, the features are the most important to me.
so i can live with whatever buttons are decided on.
Can we stop this bickering about custom buttons? It's in the future proposals list for some time now and writing more about it won't get it done any quicker.
Can we stop this bickering about custom buttons? It's in the future proposals list for some time now and writing more about it won't get it done any quicker.
Awe, come on now, can't we have any fun in here anymore? Most of the comments are against my original post, but I don't consider this bickering. No, it's just a friendly difference of opinion. This button issue will never be a deal breaker for me. Foobar2000 is a terrific audio player and that is soley why I use it. But version 0.9.5 is still in beta, and things are always changing, and this is a forum to discuss (bicker, as you put it) such matters.
Happy Holidays!