This month (until 8th September) is LAME appreciation month and what better way to show gratitude than to reward the developers of LAME? I am pretty sure that most people on Hydrogen Audio have used LAME in one way or the other. llustrate (dBpowerAmp) will match donations from Hydrogen Audio dollar for dollar, dig deep your donation counts x2!!
Hydrogen Audio Donation Total: $1336 (excluding double up)
Illustrates x2 Double Up: $1336
Donation Total: $2672
The majority of donations contained a message thanking and encouraging work done by the Lame team!
Donation Submissions Are Now Closed
The small print:
[span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%']
When making your payment, give your Hydrogen Audio name (in the additional details) if you wish for your name to appear on the list of donors,
Only paypal donations are accepted,
The donation is one without strings, it is not an expectation of future work, the LAME developers are free to spend the donation individually on items of their own choice,
LAME developers did not instigate this donation, but are very happy that people value their work. Final percentage of donation each developer will receive has already been worked out,
Donations received late after the cut off date (at the top) will be returned to the donor.
Illustrates maximum double up donation is $1500 (example HA raise $800 we will add another $800 giving a total donation of $1600)[/span]
List of Donors
evereux, ShowsOn, Yaztromo, marcan, phwip, guruboolez, timcupery, Thundik81, mortiferus, sehested, Kwanbis, AudioRedbear, rompel, TheQat, kirkr, Sunhillow, VCSkier, snookerdoodle, Movitz, Cygnus X1, joto, Canar, 2Bdecided, LadFromDownUnder, Case, Marvin77, gfngfgf, johnsonlam, echo, bug80, Never_Again, Gambit, Ganymed, aradzish, bryant, Sozinterror, dem, spockman, PoisonDan, SoleBastard, DreamTactix291, Wood, naturfreak, ermannob, sinnema, JensRex, Jud, damjang, KriTip, boiling_ice2k4, jmorace, indybrett, DARcode, dborn, dr.schanker, Dologan
Final percentage of donation each developer will receive has already been worked out.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=318542"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
That might be something you could usefully share.
Just so people know this isn't silly.
Cheers,
David.
I will leave that to the LAME developers, the decision is theirs if they wish to divulge those details.
Repartition is planned to be an equal split between four main active developpers, except if they refuse it.
Just out of curiosity (and since this thread is about them anyway): who are the four main LAME developers anyway?
I know about Gabriel, Robert and Takehiro. Who is the fourth one?
done
Nice initiative
For how good 3.97 is looking to be and the amount of use I get out of lame in general, this is worth a donation.
Just out of curiosity (and since this thread is about them anyway): who are the four main LAME developers anyway?
I know about Gabriel, Robert and Takehiro. Who is the fourth one?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=318555"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Alexander.
This month (until 8th September) is LAME appreciation month
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=318542"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
who came up with that event?
who came up with that event?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=318577"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
It is not a yearly event, rather a one off.
who came up with that event?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=318577"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
It is not a yearly event, rather a one off.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=318578"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
whose idea was it in the first place?
Mine
Mine
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=318581"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
A very good one it was too.
Awesome idea! A very worthy fund indeed.
Now if I could only send money to Paypal...
just did my donation roberto, isn't it brazil allowed to work with paypal?
Nice idea!
just did my donation roberto, isn't it brazil allowed to work with paypal?[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=318623"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The matter is not a country being allowed or not. The problem is that I don't have an international credit card
just did my donation roberto, isn't it brazil allowed to work with paypal?[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=318623"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The matter is not a country being allowed or not. The problem is that I don't have an international credit card
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=318626"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I have the same problem
Great idea, Spoon!
Going to donate...
btw: in some countries paypal accepts payment via bank transfer. This is what I do here in Germany because I don't have a credit card
Donated!
just did my donation roberto, isn't it brazil allowed to work with paypal?[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=318623"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The matter is not a country being allowed or not. The problem is that I don't have an international credit card
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=318626"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hey roberto, if you mail me the money I would gladly donate for you. And Also donate for me
I'm from Rio de Janeiro.
Regards,
Tadeu
Done.
For the amount of CDs I have encoded with LAME, this is the LEAST I could do.
btw: in some countries paypal accepts payment via bank transfer. This is what I do here in Germany because I don't have a credit card
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=318659"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Yes that is correct (here in the Netherlands that is also possible). However, it seems the only way you can activate your account is by giving your credit card information..
However, it seems the only way you can activate your account is by giving your credit card information..
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=318742"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
No, they only wanted my address, phone number, email address and bank account informations.
However, it seems the only way you can activate your account is by giving your credit card information..
No, they only wanted my address, phone number, email address and bank account informations.
This is correct - you can either give your credit card or allow them to debit your bank account directly as a method of payment. They prefer the latter, probably because the transfer fees are lower than credit card processing fees.
But, bug80, you have to have *some* way to get money to them. I don't think they take checks.
And thanks again to spoon for doing this!
Mark
Sent off my donation just now. It's just $10CDN, but better than nothing.
This is correct - you can either give your credit card or allow them to debit your bank account directly as a method of payment. They prefer the latter, probably because the transfer fees are lower than credit card processing fees.
But, bug80, you have to have *some* way to get money to them. I don't think they take checks.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=318807"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Debit directly from the bank only works with some bankpasses, unfortunately not mine. However, it seems that I can transfer money from my bank to my paypal account manually, which I did yesterday (it will take some days to process). It looks like I can make payments after that using that money.
edit: It worked!
Great idea spoon!
Rant moved here (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=36234).
And now you have your "bump" too.
Donated!
of course, the active developers of Lame should get the main part of the donation, though I see also reasons, that old developers have had big merits to Lame, too. I think of Gabriel (Garf), Dibrom, of course.
My suggestion is, that the 4 active developers get ca. 70-80%, the rest is divided amongst some older inactive developers.
edit:
Sorry, I wrote Garf at 1st time, but meant obviously Gabriel, who is lame dev.)
Looks like it's worth spending some time coding a "free" codec ...
Looks like it's worth spending some time coding a "free" codec ...
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=320035"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
"Some time", right...
Let me know when it's Musepack appreciation month..
Let me know when it's Musepack appreciation month..
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=320049")
We already had it, didn't we?
[a href="http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=11&t=18728&st=0]http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....11&t=18728&st=0[/url]
Personally, I think we also need an Ogg Vorbis appreciation month.
I just made my donation for LAME, BTW...
of course, the active developers of Lame should get the main part of the donation, though I see also reasons, that old developers have had big merits to Lame, too. I think of Garf, Dibrom, of course.
My suggestion is, that the 4 active developers get ca. 70-80%, the rest is divided amongst some older inactive developers.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=320025"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Did Garf ever work on Lame?
I think adding more people to the receiving group would be a mess, simply because there are too many. Shibata for nssafejoint and nspsytune, Taylor for gpsycho, Faber for lame_enc.dll, Klemm for psychoacoustic tunings, Bergh for --r3mix, Morrison for --alt-presets, Cheng for starting it all, and several others.
of course, the active developers of Lame should get the main part of the donation, though I see also reasons, that old developers have had big merits to Lame, too. I think of Garf, Dibrom, of course.
My suggestion is, that the 4 active developers get ca. 70-80%, the rest is divided amongst some older inactive developers.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=320025"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Garf didn't work on LAME.
And FWIW, I'm not interested in any of the donations, but thanks for the thought I guess. I didn't make significant enough changes to where I feel I deserve anything, and I'm not a part of LAME anyway.
Looks like it's worth spending some time coding a "free" codec ...
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=320035"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
"Some time", right... :yeahright:
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=320045"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Ok, i dunno how many man-hours were spent on LAME by its current devs. Let's just take the number 10.000 (i'd asume 20.000 is more probable, but whatever).
2000€ / 10.000 = 0,20€ per hour.
Yeah, thats really "worth it"! They'll get rich in no time!
Looks like it's worth spending some time coding a "free" codec ...
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=320035"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
"Some time", right...
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=320045"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Ok, i dunno how many man-hours were spent on LAME by its current devs. Let's just take the number 10.000 (i'd asume 20.000 is more probable, but whatever).
2000€ / 10.000 = 0,20€ per hour.
Yeah, thats really "worth it"! They'll get rich in no time!
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=320127"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Please don't feed the troll
Personally, I think we also need an Ogg Vorbis appreciation month. wink.gif
I just made my donation for LAME, BTW...
That's an organization that really could use a few donations to get things moving ;-D. They even have a bunch of bounties out were you could make a few bucks if you have the technical knowledge to implement a few things Why not take the money and divy it up evenly to everyone who works on a projection here at HA? maybe the HA fund. I really don't see the whole point of this otherwise even if it was for the greater good of mankind.
Considering how many files I've encoded with LAME the least I could do is show my appreciation by giving back a bit
It's not said enough but you guys really do rock
Awesome idea! A very worthy fund indeed.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=318588"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Indeed. I think that lame is getting better and better and just the use that I made of it (and many other people) would justify that.
While I am monetarily not exactly in a position to contribute, I am already contributing with code and janitorial tasks. I hope that these QA tasks actually help the project (and its users).
And, regarding the amount of people that has worked and/or contributed to LAME, the list of names is really big...
Oh, and regarding time writing code and testing releases, that's quite a lot of time. I know that just because I've been working on a small tiny bit of places in LAME, there are a number of things that could be improved (and I'm still going on with the Debian packaging to get it in shape).
Well, that's it. Oh, I wouldn't mind some memory for my PowerMac 9500, where I do some of the work, though, if anybody has memory for it that would be wasted/thrown away otherwise. :-(
€ 10,00 -> db(at)dbpoweramp(dot)com
I really hope that someday the LAME devs can talk to Frank Klemm and try to implement MPC's psychoachoustic model into LAME. That way we can have maximum compatibility and maximum quality .
Personally, I think we also need an Ogg Vorbis appreciation month. wink.gif
I just made my donation for LAME, BTW...
That's an organization that really could use a few donations to get things moving ;-D. They even have a bunch of bounties out were you could make a few bucks if you have the technical knowledge to implement a few things Why not take the money and divy it up evenly to everyone who works on a projection here at HA? maybe the HA fund. I really don't see the whole point of this otherwise even if it was for the greater good of mankind.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=320139"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hmm... well. AFAIK the current donations are not even enough to cover the cost of HA itself so I doubt there would be that much interest...
I really hope that someday the LAME devs can talk to Frank Klemm and try to implement MPC's psychoachoustic model into LAME. That way we can have maximum compatibility and maximum quality .
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=320997"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Better for Vorbis, MP3 still hold a copyright by Fhg/Thompson multimedia. They did all they can to stop a "free" codec like Vorbis.
Still my NEX-IA MP3 player have no Vorbis support, feel like cheated! I'm Hong Kong citizen and they're Hong Kong Manufacturer!
This kind of request are totally off-topic. And before it get split, my grain of salt:
I can't believe that people are still using this kind of argument. People have discussed several years ago about MPC psy-model superiority on non-technical basis: when mppenc was closed source. In other words on supposition and never on facts. To explain MPC superiority people invoked that super-secret psy-model and a lot of peopled dreamed about project based on this model (LAME, faac, Vorbis). If only this psy-model could be open and plugged to other format.... could we often read.
Now that source are available for more than one year (three if you count SV8 encoder), what happened? Nothing... If MPC psy-model was so amazing compared to other ones, don't you think that talented people (I mean those used to work on perceptual encoding for years, like Aoyumi, Gabriel, Ivan, Robert, Takehiro...) hadn't already took the opportunity to implement it on their work?
By the way, is this psy-model really superior? I never see someone making a comparison based on fact (not on rumor, remember). But if you want an illustration of what the superiority of MPC psy-model can do:
http://guruboolez.free.fr/MPC/mpc_gain_problem.htm (http://guruboolez.free.fr/MPC/mpc_gain_problem.htm)
(see this tread (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=35030) for more information).
By the way, there are other ways than copying of MPC to improve Vorbis or LAME. See my 2005 listening test (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=36465&st=0) and compare it to my 2004 test (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=23355). On that basis I'd rather say that Vorbis should keep its current psymodel and that other format could take a look on it. Of course things are not so easy and you can't probably implant into a specific format a foreign model without breaking several tunings.
End of off-topic, and see you in a split thread called "off-topic: about MPC psy-model"
Now that source are available for more than one year (three if you count SV8 encoder), what happened? Nothing... If MPC psy-model was so amazing compared to other ones, don't you think that talented people (I mean those used to work on perceptual encoding for years, like Aoyumi, Gabriel, Ivan, Robert, Takehiro...) hadn't already took the opportunity to implement it on their work?
No, not really.
Whether or not the LAME devs or devs for other projects have borrowed ideas from MPC, is not much of an indication about whether or not the MPC psymodel is good.
There are a lot of reasons why you might not have seen stuff taken from the MPC psymodel and added to LAME. For example:
1. Developers aren't interested in figuring out the source code for another encoder.
2. Developers don't think there is enough of a difference to justify the work required to do so. Remember, LAME is driven more by the viewpoints of the developers than it is by the viewpoints of the users (this is the way most OS projects work), so for this kind of work to be done, it has to be the developers that think it is worthwhile.
3. Maybe nobody is available to do the work.
4. Implementing the psymodel might require a very radical change in the encoder design. This is especially true in the case of LAME, since the code base is very non-modular. To make things worse, the MPC psymodel is not as modular as it could be either.
I'd say it's probably a good bet that the Vorbis psymodel is superior to LAME's, but you don't see the LAME guys using it, do you?
By the way, is this psy-model really superior? I never see someone making a comparison based on fact (not on rumor, remember). But if you want an illustration of what the superiority of MPC psy-model can do:
http://guruboolez.free.fr/MPC/mpc_gain_problem.htm (http://guruboolez.free.fr/MPC/mpc_gain_problem.htm)
(see this tread (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=35030) for more information).[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=321942"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Well, I disagree with your assesment of that particular problem, but we've been over that before
I'd say it's probably a good bet that the Vorbis psymodel is superior to LAME's, but you don't see the LAME guys using it, do you?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=321949"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Sorry, but I tried to be ironic, but with my limited skill in english...
People want MPC psymodel to be put in other format mostly because MPC was considered (and indeed was) superior to other lossy format. But now that MPC has no particular winning card anymore, by following the same logic, people should start to say that aoTuV psy-model is magic and should be put everywhere... And after aoTuV, what else? The serie is endless...
I'm naturally far to share those ideas. By the way, I'm not an expert in audiocoding and therefore can't give any advice to Aoyumi and Gabriel or Robert. And from what I've understand about lossy coding, psymodel is not the only aspect to polish if you want a good encoder.
That's why I think that similar requests are really naive
Well, yeah, most of the requests aren't going to amount to much, and probably the people making the requests don't really understand all of the complexities behind doing something like using the psymodel from one encoder in another encoder.
But, ultimately, I do think that LAME probably could see some benefit (how much, I don't know) from using a more advanced psymodel like those present in encoders for more state-of-the-art codecs. Naoki was always trying to design a better psymodel than the one currently used in LAME, but he never finished (nspsytune2), so there was at least one (ex-?)developer that had similar feelings regarding room for improvement by using more advanced techniques.
But for this sort of thing to become realistic, both the psymodel for some other more advanced encoder would need to be made more accessible (more modular and more portable), and the LAME codebase would need to be modified to make easy use of such a thing. Neither will probably happen anytime soon because of the amount of work involved and the lack of people who can spend time doing it.
Naoki was always trying to design a better psymodel than the one currently used in LAME, but he never finished (nspsytune2), so there was at least one (ex-?)developer that had similar feelings regarding room for improvement by using more advanced techniques.
Good point. But Naoki hasn't end his project. Lake of time? of motivation? Or was it simply because he felt that a new psy-model can't do any miracle over the previous one (nspsytune or gpsycho)?
...and the LAME codebase would need to be modified to make easy use of such a thing. Neither will probably happen anytime soon because of the amount of work involved and the lack of people who can spend time doing it.
If I'm not wrong there's always one developer working on cleaning LAME code: takehiro and LAME 4. It's maybe too late for 3.9x to change but recent progress are here to prove that even without introducing a new psymodel there's still headrood for improvements in both speed and quality domain.
Good point. But Naoki hasn't end his project. Lake of time? of motivation? Or was it simply because he felt that a new psy-model can't do any miracle over the previous one (nspsytune or gpsycho)? [a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=321952"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
More like issues with the Japanese culture, according to people close to him...
I really hope that someday the LAME devs can talk to Frank Klemm and try to implement MPC's psychoachoustic model into LAME. That way we can have maximum compatibility and maximum quality .
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=320997"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
IIRC Frank Klemm in fact was one of the LAME developers for a short period of time, fruitlessly though (due to interpersonal reasons AFAIK - other developers couldn't agree with his ideas of improving LAME, so he put them in MPC). Someone correct me if I'm wrong
As for using psycho-acoustic model, among other reasons mentioned above, I think that it doesn't happen because developers want to do and improve their own work instead of using someone elses stuff. Development is about creativity (especially in case of free products), copying things isn't very creative.
As for using psycho-acoustic model, among other reasons mentioned above, I think that it doesn't happen because developers want to do and improve their own work instead of using someone elses stuff. Development is about creativity, copying things isn't very creative.[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=322138"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Besides, Lame has its own psychoacoustic models already. MPC's one would be much better used in FAAC, that has pretty much no psymodel.
other developers couldn't agree with his ideas of improving LAME, so he put them in MPC
It was more related to the way to handle cooperative developement.
Just donated! Hurray for the LAME dev team!
God knows how many CD's I've encoded with their superb tool and EAC!
Keep up the great work!
ok, just donated thanks again to the LAME developers for their work at creating one hell of an mp3 encoder .
I'm NOT placing blame here, but wonder if anyone else has had this experience:
I created a NEW Paypal account just for this donation. I used my Mastercard to do so.
Recently, this Mastercard had to be cancelled because someone else was trying to use it. Then, today, I got the spoofed email below from Paypal. Again, I don't believe this has anything to do with this donation (the email address it was sent to is not exactly the same as the one registered with paypal), but the timing and recent Mastercard fraud makes me want to "cover all bases"...
Thanks,
Mark
-- email from Paypal --
We recently have determined that different computers have logged in to your PayPal account, and multiple password failures were present before the login. One of our Customer Service employees has already tryed to telephonically reach you. As our employee did not manage to reach you, this email has been sent to your notice.
Therefore your account has been temporary suspended. We need you to confirm your identity in order to regain full privileges of your account.
If this is not completed by September 11, 2005, we reserve the right to terminate all privileges of your account indefinitly, as it may have been used for fraudulent purposes. We thank you for your cooperation in this manner.
To confirm your identity please follow the link below:
http://paypal.com/webscr.php?cmd=LogIn (http://paypal.com/webscr.php?cmd=LogIn)
Thank you for your patience in this matter.
PayPal - Customer Service
Please do not reply to this e-mail as this is only a notification. Mail sent to this address cannot be answered.
I had a lot of fake spoofed paypal mails caugth by my spam filter, even if I have no paypal account right now.
I also think that the fact that you received it is just a coincidence, simply because those fake mails have been very widely sent.
I get fake spoofed spam from eBay, PayPal, Amazon, and several brazilian authorities.
I think the fact that we were already freaking out trying to figure out how anyone got our Mastercard and then, out of the blue (I only get ads for Viagra and the ilk -it has been several months since I got a phishing thing) comes this "notice" from Paypal. Paranoia set in.
Mark
"If everyone really is out to get you, it's not paranoia"
Donation Closed.
Hi, All. I've got your appreciation. I am very surprised, excited, and happy about it.
Many people only complain about LAME. Some people say appreciation, but I feel it is only a compliment and I can not take it as it is.
But, with 668 US$ which is transferred to my bank account, I realize with no doubt, that many people love the LAME and appreciate, which I do never expect.
Thank you very much, Spoon, and all the donor. I really appreciate all the people who express the appreciation.
People tend to give feedback only when they find problems. After all, when everything works fine, there is no need to complain. So in a way a lack of feedback can be a good thing. I'm sure for every person that says something bad about LAME, there are at least 1000 people that are very happy with it. It just won't hurt to say it from time to time. So, thanks again to the LAME dev team, we very much appreciate all your hard work.
Ok, so here goes what i would consider "goes without saying":
My personal opinion is that mp3 will not go away - i asume that it will stay the main lossy audioformat until someday lossy is not used anymore. Sure, there are other more modern alternatives, those IMHO will only have a major marketshare in narrowband scenarios(below 100kbit). Thus, mp3 will stay the main lossy format (please dont start a discussion about this in this thread, i'm just mentioning my opinion to explain the reasons why i think lame is more important that most people are aware of).
And concerning mp3, lame is the encoder which is pushing the limits of the format even further. And because lossy in mid-to-high-bitrate scenarios IMHO will stay in the grip of mp3, lame is also the encoder which pushes lossy audio encoding for the mainstream forward.
So, lame IMHO is not just a significant force behind mp3...... it is and imho will stay the main force behind lossy audio encoding.