HydrogenAudio

I've been looking into the digital audio players for a while but don't really like any of them. Because there're so many, I thought there might be a model that is sufficiently close to what I desire which I don't know of. Here are the considerations:

• Memory based - no moving parts. Actually I'd prefer it has no built-in memory but a SD (secure digital) slot.
• The DAC quality is of utmost importance. Provided headphones could be of lowest quality. I'll use them with my own headphones.
• Firmware upgradeable. Vorbis/AAC future support possibility. Should support native tags and VBR.
• I want it to be as tiny and light as possible. The player should be of aluminum/steel/titanium construction (not plastic). I'd prefer it to have about an AAA size battery for size considerations. It could have built-in battery but AAA is preferred due to its availability.
• The file access interface should be well designed. The display does not have to be too fancy but high pixel count and Organic Electro Luminescence Display (OLED) is preferred.
• Reasonable actual file transfer speed (3Mbps).
• Should be accessed as a USB drive without any additional software.
• Absolutely no DRM/music protection built in. I should be able to download the music back to my computer if I want to.
• FM & Voice recording capability would be nice to have but not crucial.

Some example models I like:
Mpio FY200 (http://www.mpio.com/goods/fy200.php): is very tiny and has very nice design. But the users seem to have a lot of trouble with the firmware. It is not expandable either.
Sony NW-MS70D (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00008W7LR/): This model is almost perfect, perfect engineering and design and sound quality. However only supports ATRAC and forces you to use Sony Jukebox software which renders this amazing player less than desirable.
Daisy Multimedia Diva Gem (http://www.daisymm.com/l/en/mpz/divagem_det.html): This player has AAC support, SD expansion and has 40mW per channel output. However as far as construction quality goes it does not look very appealing.

Sounds like you are after the same thing as me!

But I also want it to be a usb flash drive type of design so you simply plug it into the usb port and start downloading

Thats a big must for me, plus all of your stuff!

But I also want it to be a usb flash drive type of design so you simply plug it into your usb port and start downloading

Hmm that's what I said though: memory based (item 1) and USB drive (item 7). This implies it's a USB flash type design that you plug into your usb port

cool!

good luck. thats quite a feature list.

btw, I dont think oled is very widely implemented in anything yet, though it seems like the possible ideal future solution.

I want a Compact Flash capable device.  1Gig cards are under $100 and it won't be much longer until the 4Gig cards are reasonable in price.
4 Gigs would be sufficient for a very long trip.....with MP3.

Bob

Quote

But I also want it to be a usb flash drive type of design so you simply plug it into your usb port and start downloading

Hmm that's what I said though: memory based (item 1) and USB drive (item 7). This implies it's a USB flash type design that you plug into your usb port
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=276709"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

There is a difference.  Some players you literally plug in to the usb port.  Others, even if they act as a USB drive, you have to use a cable.

Edit: wrt special loading software.. If he player just browses files that you copy over on your own, then it will not have a tag database, and it will be limited in what it can do with tags. 

My player (Neuros) can play either using a database or by file browsing.  Browsing  mode  impacts battery life, and is overall less convenient unless for some reason you  can't use the database, like you  just loaded some music without a synch program.

Iriver flash players can go either way, but that takes different versions of the firmware.

I want a Compact Flash capable device.  1Gig cards are under $100 and it won't be much longer until the 4Gig cards are reasonable in price.
4 Gigs would be sufficient for a very long trip.....with MP3.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=276796"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

But compact flash cards are quite big too. Don't they also consume more battery power? I am not sure but in any case you can't make a small pocket player out of a CF based system.

It's weird that as far as digital cameras go, they've reached to a point where one can't ask for more (maybe PNG support). Is it only me who thinks so?. Yet this is not the case for digital audio players. Maybe it's because people care more for style than substance when it comes to audio player (ex: iPod) which is why we don't yet have the perfect audio player. On the other hand people are extremely tech-savvy when it comes to purchasing a digital camera.

Quote

I want a Compact Flash capable device.  1Gig cards are under $100 and it won't be much longer until the 4Gig cards are reasonable in price.
4 Gigs would be sufficient for a very long trip.....with MP3.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=276796"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

But compact flash cards are quite big too. Don't they also consume more battery power? I am not sure but in any case you can't make a small pocket player out of a CF based system.

It's weird that as far as digital cameras go, they've reached to a point where one can't ask for more (maybe PNG support). Is it only me who thinks so?. Yet this is not the case for digital audio players. Maybe it's because people care more for style than substance when it comes to audio player (ex: iPod) which is why we don't yet have the perfect audio player. On the other hand people are extremely tech-savvy when it comes to purchasing a digital camera.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=276823"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

CompactFlash are huge, power-hungry, and obsolete.  Try SD instead, they're the same price and faster too..

For your money, try the Samsung Yepp series.  No DRM, only UMS (ie, no stupid manager software), plays Ogg Vorbis (up to Q10) and the smallest player avail. w/screen.  No OLED, but you wouldn't notice the difference anyways on a player that tiny..  I haven't tried the YP-T7 but I think that has the screen you want.
I have a YP-MT6 (AA-battery), but the YP-T6 takes AAA and gets 20 hours of battery life.  It's almost ridiculously undersized, IMO, I had the T5 and it's size is the same. 
Sound quality is superb, I gave away my iRiver iFP because it was not as good.  iRivers have an Ogg limitation, choking on anything with a frame less than 96kbps.
Check amazon.com for price.  Enjoy

Thanks a lot for the suggestion. It looks like YP-T7Z is really nice. I'll probably order one soon.

Another dream comes true thanks to people at HA

There is a difference.  Some players you literally plug in to the usb port.  Others, even if they act as a USB drive, you have to use a cable.

Yes, I am after the players which literally plug into the usb port.  I dont want to be carrying cables around.

I dont know if anyone has mensioned this yet, but it should use 1 AAA battery (which have already been mensioned by atici) and also, it should be rechargable when plugged into the usb part

Hello Atici, 

While browsing the web, I found this.  http://www.neodigits.com/body/product/1gmp3/feature.asp (http://www.neodigits.com/body/product/1gmp3/feature.asp)

It will be able to make the business until your dream achieves itself. 

Bye.

Very nice!  But it doesn't say anything about gapless playback.  I have to say it is very close to "The Dream!"

I think it would be nice if the memory stick and the player would be seperate, or linkable in some way, so you can copy stuff to the player from another, seperate USB drive - without the use of any additional hardware, like a computer. This would come handy if someone has some music with him on his USB drive but there's no computer nearby to use.

Hello Atici,  

While browsing the web, I found this.  http://www.neodigits.com/body/product/1gmp3/feature.asp (http://www.neodigits.com/body/product/1gmp3/feature.asp)

It will be able to make the business until your dream achieves itself. 

Bye.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=277371")

Thanks. That model is [a href="http://en.meizu.com/PRODUCT_me.asp]Meizu[/url] brand. I've never heard of this brand so I don't know how reliable it is.

I'll go see the Samsung YP-T7Z tomorrow (the NYC store is open on Sunday) and purchase if it looks nice.

Another consideration in case you overlooked it:  http://www.jetaudio.com/products/iaudio/5/ (http://www.jetaudio.com/products/iaudio/5/) (currently supports ogg but looks to be constructed with plastic :X)

I was browsing for more models today and I decided to delay my purchase until Sony NW-E505 (http://portableaudio.engadget.com/entry/1234000003032540/) comes out. This is a dream player: 3-line OLED display, 55 hours of playback, FM Radio, 37 grams, high speed charging: 3 minutes charging = 3 hours playback time; FM tuner. But if it still forces you to use SonicStage crap then I'm going to pass.
I hope Sony learnt from its mistakes and you can load this player without SonicStage as is possible with newer models:

Sony is now supporting an MP3 File management utility. Go to Sony's site and go to support for the NW-E75. Find the MP3 File Manager Application and run it to automatically load to your player (make sure you unit is connected). Open 'My Computer' - open the ESYS directory and run the utility. You will be presented with instructions on how to use the utility to drag and drop MP3 files directly to your player. You will be able to load and play MP3 files in just a few minutes.

This is a tremendously simple utility that does direct MP3 transfers. You don't have to load SonicStage. If you do, the NW-E75 will load and play both file formats. Just put them in different groups.

Upcoming NW-E505:
(http://www.weblogsinc.com/common/images/2768866119821743.JPG)
Another cool player: M-Bird XT-22 (http://www.mbird.co.kr/product_06.asp) but only available in Korea.
Edit: add image

I wasnt to sure if I should start my own thread of add it to this one.  Anyway Atici how different are my requirements from your dream player requirements

Memory based - no moving parts. SD (secure digital) slot.
USB pen design - no cable should be required for the device to be connected to the computer.  the device itself should plug into the usb port
Firmware upgradeable - Vorbis/AAC future support possibility
Tags - Should support native tags and VBR
Battery - Must only use a single AAA battery
USB Charging - Should charge the single AAA battery with in the USB port - preferable with a switch which lets it charge or stops charging when not required
Mains Charging - Should also be able to charge it from a mains adapter
File Transfer - The file access interface should be well designed. The display does not have to be too fancy but high pixel count and Organic Electro Luminescence Display (OLED) is preferred
No software - Should be accessed as a USB drive without any additional software
Protection - No DRM/music protection built in
FM & Voice recording - voice recording is a must, FM is optional

Daisy Multimedia Diva Gem (http://www.daisymm.com/l/en/mpz/divagem_det.html): This player has AAC support, SD expansion and has 40mW per channel output. However as far as construction quality goes it does not look very appealing.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=276707"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Actually the Diva Gem models available today don't support AAC playback any more, don't ask me why.

This would come handy if someone has some music with him on his USB drive but there's no computer nearby to use.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=277374")

The probem here is that you can't just hook USB devices together.  I'm not sure of the exact term, but a USB device has to be either a master (ie a PC) or a slave (ie USB drive, printer, camera...)  Firewire is a p2p scheme, so if a hard drive had the smarts it could copy files to another drive, but not USB.

There are adapter boxes that appear as master to a camera or mem card reader and external drive that will just copy everthing on the card to the hard drive.

[a href="http://www.neurosaudio.com/store/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=DigitalInnovationsCatalog&category%5Fname=Neuros+Gear&product%5Fid=4019400]syncbox[/url]

jen:

I dont know if anyone has mensioned this yet, but it should use 1 AAA battery (which have already been mensioned by atici) and also, it should be rechargable when plugged into the usb part biggrin.gif

Manufacturers are getting reluctant to put built-in charging for devices with standard penlight (AA, AAA) cells because the user may be using alkaline or lithium cells instead of NiMH.  Recharging those can cause leakage or fire.  I have even had NiMH leak if left on a trickle charge too long (a few days).

I like some of those ideas atici! Nice..

Hi,

the Sony MZ RH10 doesn't fit all your wishes (size, memory: hi md), but defenitly worth a look at.

strenght: playtime, cheap memory (7 USD for 1 GB), Sony has got a lot experience with hi minidisc products, ...)

probably going to be my new one, after my bad journey to the harddisk-mp3-player-land (archos jukebox, ipod 1st and 2nd generation, ipod mini...)...


Sony MZ-RH10 Specs

portable Hi-MD/MP3 recorder
Intro: 4/2005
MSRP: $300

In: line/optical, mic. Out: headphones. Data: USB   

Features:
    * Organic EL LCD on remote
    * Digital amp
    * Plays back MP3 files
    * USB bus powered

Manufacturer's Feature List:
    * HI-MD WALKMAN with large Organic EL Display
    * MP3 / Atrac3plus direct playback
    * SonicStage for easy music management and unlimited check outs of your favourite tracks
    * Supports all popular digital audio compression formats: ATRAC / MP3 / WMA / WAV
    * New type remote control
    * Record from multiple source: USB-in / Mic-in / Analogue-in / Digital-in
    * Extremely fast music transfer from and to PC: 1 CD in less than 40 seconds
    * Capable of storing audio, video and data files on your HI-MD disc (Word, Powerpoint, ATRAC, MP3, JPEG, MPEG, etc)
    * Incl. Charging stand, AC Power Adpater
    * Long battery life of 32 hours
    * G-PROTECTION Jog Proof
    * Transfer up to 45 CDs onto a single 1GB Hi-MD disc (with Atrac3Plus compression).

Battery Life   Play
NiMH   32 hr

(http://www.minidisc.org/images/Sony_MZRH10_thumb_110.jpg)

Sony MZ-RH10 Info (http://www.minidisc.org/part_Sony_MZ-RH10.html)


cheers

Thanks. I am not a believer in MiniDisc. As I said, no moving parts is an important concern and $300 is too expensive. It's also a bit larger than what I'm looking for. I'll probably go for the earlier mentioned Sony memory based model.

ok, np.

hope you find the right one for you.
keep us informed and good luck!

• Memory based - no moving parts. Actually I'd prefer it has no built-in memory but a SD (secure digital) slot.
  
• The DAC quality is of utmost importance. Provided headphones could be of lowest quality. I'll use them with my own headphones.
  
• Firmware upgradeable. Vorbis/AAC future support possibility. Should support native tags and VBR.
  
• I want it to be as tiny and light as possible. The player should be of aluminum/steel/titanium construction (not plastic). I'd prefer it to have about an AAA size battery for size considerations. It could have built-in battery but AAA is preferred due to its availability.
  
• The file access interface should be well designed. The display does not have to be too fancy but high pixel count and Organic Electro Luminescence Display (OLED) is preferred.
  
• Reasonable actual file transfer speed (3Mbps).
  
• Should be accessed as a USB drive without any additional software.
  
• Absolutely no DRM/music protection built in. I should be able to download the music back to my computer if I want to.
  
• FM & Voice recording capability would be nice to have but not crucial.

Try to find a Lexar LDP-800... It's not in the stores yet, as far as I know...
Let  me know, when you've found it.

Try to find a Lexar LDP-800... It's not in the stores yet, as far as I know...
Let  me know, when you've found it.

[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=280166"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I like almost everything with Lexar. But it seems to have a cheap plastic build and simple navigation (no jog dial). I'd be happy to know about it if anyone gets to try it out.

I was browsing for more models today and I decided to delay my purchase until Sony NW-E505 (http://portableaudio.engadget.com/entry/1234000003032540/) comes out. This is a dream player: 3-line OLED display, 55 hours of playback, FM Radio, 37 grams, high speed charging: 3 minutes charging = 3 hours playback time; FM tuner. But if it still forces you to use SonicStage crap then I'm going to pass.
I hope Sony learnt from its mistakes and you can load this player without SonicStage as is possible with newer models:

Quote

Sony is now supporting an MP3 File management utility. Go to Sony's site and go to support for the NW-E75. Find the MP3 File Manager Application and run it to automatically load to your player (make sure you unit is connected). Open 'My Computer' - open the ESYS directory and run the utility. You will be presented with instructions on how to use the utility to drag and drop MP3 files directly to your player. You will be able to load and play MP3 files in just a few minutes.

This is a tremendously simple utility that does direct MP3 transfers. You don't have to load SonicStage. If you do, the NW-E75 will load and play both file formats. Just put them in different groups.

Upcoming NW-E505:
(http://www.weblogsinc.com/common/images/2768866119821743.JPG)
Another cool player: M-Bird XT-22 (http://www.mbird.co.kr/product_06.asp) but only available in Korea.
Edit: add image
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=277473"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

it looks nice...but it would be nice if it was 4gb

it looks nice...but it would be nice if it was 4gb
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=282383"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

It cannot be unless it is hard drive based which is not what I'm interested in. I'd prefer a 1GB memory based to 10GB hard drive based any day for the following reasons:

• No moving parts in the portable player for extreme portability + reliability.
• I store all my music at home on 300GB drive and can't listen more than a few albums at once.

Quote

it looks nice...but it would be nice if it was 4gb
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=282383"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

It cannot be unless it is hard drive based which is not what I'm interested in. I'd prefer a 1GB memory based to 10GB hard drive based any day for the following reasons:

• No moving parts in the portable player for extreme portability + reliability.
  
• I store all my music at home on 300GB drive and can't listen more than a few albums at once.

[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=282529"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

yeah true...1gb should fit a few hours even with good quality mp3. Only thing i think about is if i go on a trip or something and want a big collection with me.

These large storage units whether flash or microdrive need some library search and playlist creation system.

Hard to beat the ipod mini for this....

Another new model coming up: Panasonic SV-SD100V (http://www.panasonic-europe.com/news_read.aspx?id=2091)
(http://www.panasonic-europe.com/upload/portal/2091_SV_SD100V%20Main%20Image.jpg)
It features AAC playback, OLED display, UKW Digital-Tuner, in-built microphone for voice recordings and it is a SD memory card player. It doesn't look as cool as the Sony NW-E507 but definitely a contender.

you joking right? i think this looks amazing!!!

so questions

when will this be released?
will this be recognised as a removable drive when connected to the usb port without software?
is the battery easily replaceable?
how long does a single charge last?
how much does it cost?

wibble 

Another new model coming up: Panasonic SV-SD100V (http://www.panasonic-europe.com/news_read.aspx?id=2091)
(http://www.panasonic-europe.com/upload/portal/2091_SV_SD100V%20Main%20Image.jpg)
It features AAC playback, OLED display, UKW Digital-Tuner, in-built microphone for voice recordings and it is a SD memory card player. It doesn't look as cool as the Sony NW-E507 but definitely a contender.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=283051"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

  ... and will it, by default, recognize the *.m4a extension? If I'm encoding music in iTunes for my wife's iPod, the convenience of a player which would recognize - and be able to play! - those same files, unmodified, would be my dream.

    - M.

when will this be released?
will this be recognised as a removable drive when connected to the usb port without software?
is the battery easily replaceable?
how long does a single charge last?
how much does it cost?[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=284452"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

You can find most of this info on google. As far as I read:
1) It'll be released in April.
2) Yes
3) No
4) 50 hours
5) No info
I like the model but it looks a bit ugly. It could have been designed better with a better control mechanism.
@ChiGung: M-Bird XT-22 is posted in this thread earlier.
@M: Yes, I think that's the whole point. It should support unencrypted m4a files.

what a shame!

this could have been my perfect player!

the only thing i dont like about its look is the green display colour.  I would have thought electric blue is much nicer!

why do manufactureres keep doing that? even apple did it with the shuffle.  replaceable batteries are such an important thing because after a year or so you will not be getting 50 hours from this player!!!!

is the battery not replaceable at all?

its possible to replace the battery in the shuffle with some work
check this link
http://www.hackaday.com/entry/1234000700034044/ (http://www.hackaday.com/entry/1234000700034044/)

the only thing i dont like about its look is the green display colour.

The little ~quavery music symbol is blue - so it might do blue

Just to say that maybe you should stay tuned if the Rockbox team start trying another port of their firmware after the H1xx one actually in devlopment...

For exemple there is documentation for Xclef MT5xx (flash player):
http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/XclefMT500 (http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/XclefMT500)

Photoshopped!!!
(http://img73.exs.cx/img73/9227/svsd100v1ee.png)

dont you think it looks much better all blue?

dont you think it looks much better all blue?

Yeah babe, the bluer the better 

check this out!!!

http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000683026343/ (http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000683026343/)

no more need for a usb cable.

the perfect companion for this player.  i think im gonna have to get me 1 of these

Having been down the DAP road myself IMHO you should not discount HDD players as a consideration.  Flash memory players while meeting the "no moving parts" requirement do have limitations in terms of storage space available.

What starts out as a ok amount of storage (512mb or 1gb) after a short amount of usage you will almost always wish you had more room.  No one likes to be forced to chose which music in your collection to "have" and what you "can't" do to lack of space.

You can never have too much storage space in my mind. 

rs

I think the display of Panasonic SV-SD100V is ugly in any color. Some small players with nice displays:
Muro MR-200:(http://www.muro.co.kr/english/img/photo_s03.gif)
o'zzio: (http://www.weblogsinc.com/common/images/2857654775575177.JPG),
Samsung YP-F1 (the one on the left) (http://www.weblogsinc.com/common/images/8650112799155312.JPG)
Also check out other pictures of SV-SD100V: (http://panasonic.jp/d-audio/sd/img/sv_top_img1.jpg)
I think it's a bit too deep and does not have any joystick like control -> hard to access files.

rickshaw - i dont like the idea of hdd based players because i think they have too much storage.  i understand your point but i will be using my player for only 1 - 2 hours max per day.  thats it.  so i feel that 40gb hdd players are overkill for me.

atici - call me a simplest but i really like the panasonics display because its clean and simple.  im not into all the colourful stuff

but you are right, the controls dont look to good!

@JEN: I agree that there're simple and better looking displays like the Sony  It's a pity because everything about the Panasonic player is otherwise perfect apart from its looks and control system.

@rickshaw: I am with JEN here. 1GB storage is more than enough if you listen to a few albums at once like I do. I don't normally browse through many albums in a day. So memory based players have definite advantages like 50 hour battery life.

I've set my mind on the Sony NW-E507 for a while now but it's worthless if you have to use SonicStage. I am hoping that just as some of the newer models you can directly copy MP3 files onto the player using windows explorer. If I get to buy it in a few weeks I'll post a review.

I look forward to your review

There is a c|net first look movie clip for Sony NW-E5xx here (http://reviews.cnet.com/Sony_NW_E507_Network_Walkman_1GB/4505-6490_7-31303102.html). It looks quite funky there but I wish it were titanium build like NW-MS70D (http://www6.tomshardware.com/mobile/20031101/).

Naturally this player does not satisfy all the earlier mentioned requirements, but it seems like I have to make a compromise.

Hello Atici,  

While browsing the web, I found this.  http://www.neodigits.com/body/product/1gmp3/feature.asp (http://www.neodigits.com/body/product/1gmp3/feature.asp)

It will be able to make the business until your dream achieves itself. 

Bye.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=277371"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

This is an iRiver copy! At least the look...

Try to find a Lexar LDP-800... It's not in the stores yet, as far as I know...
Let  me know, when you've found it.

[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=280166"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That's what I'm waiting for! Should be out soon, I hope! They were showing it at CES in January, I hear.

A 256MB unit will be $150 (street) and of course take SD cards. And SD cards are 1/4 the price from just 2 years ago.

-rayna

What do the people of HA think of this player Safecom 1GB Mini MP3 Player[SMFD-1GB] (http://www.advancedmp3players.co.uk/shop/product_info.php?products_id=512)

A little about this player below:
- Supports MP3 & WMA file formats
- Built-in 1GB memory
- Support song name and singer name display (ID3 Tag)
- 78 hours of high quality voice recording
- LCD display with blue colour back-light
- A-B segment repeat function, excellent for language learning
- Internal FM radio (Allow max 32 preset channels)
- Removable Disk Drive Support
- Plug & Play, no driver needed (except Windows 98)
- Allows 12 hr of continuous operation with a single 1.5V AAA battery
- Dimension: 85mm x 31mm x 19mm
- Weight: 35g (Without battery)
- Support OS: Windows 98/Me/2000/XP

And a picture
(http://www.advancedmp3players.co.uk/shop/images/products/safecom/Safecom-Main-Trans-LCDsmall.jpg)

that mp3&etc/portable/memory/media hype drawn my attention some time ago because it si realy interesting battle, and main reason - I want to buy "dream mp3 player"  ..and it has to be usb flash memory (1Gb - perfect) so I can store not only music but data I need in every day in any location, and has to be <200$
So, finaly products evolved near mine and think yours exaptations, I sad near because every time I decide , something better is around the corner

@ atici - that Sony new line got me interested and looks beatifull!
..did you buy any? please review it if you do 

@ atici - that Sony new line got me interested and looks beatifull!
..did you buy any? please review it if you do 
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=292149"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Sonystyle.com says the release date is Apr 28. I was thinking of purchasing one of those for a while but it looks too plasticky. I'll probably wait a bit to make sure one can load tunes without the SonicStage software (possible with other newer Sony models).

New Samsung players look great also. But it's frustrating that there's no dream mp3 player in the market yet

if Sony NW-E507 is gonna be SonicStage dependable than it's definitely lurking and waiting again 
usb cable is only minus I can live with

I am sorry for having delayed this review until now but just now I got around to it.

I bought the Sony NW-E507 (http://reviews.cnet.com/Sony_NW_E507_Network_Walkman_1GB/4505-6495_7-31303102.html) about 7 weeks ago. The most obvious disadvantage to buying a Sony would in my opinion have been to be forced into using SonicStage. Fortunately you don't need to use SonicStage for transferring MP3 files.  You can use Sony's MP3 file manager (http://www.sonydigital-link.com/DNA/common/asp/details.asp?l=en&v=mp3installer_2_0&m=mp3) software. See this post (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=21&t=35521&hl=&view=findpost&p=314694) for further information on how to achieve this. VBR MP3 files are recognized as VBR and played back with no problem. The tags are transferred properly with this software and I see many of the special characters I need are represented correctly (I have some ethnic Turkish music whose tags include some of the special characters: ü, ö, ç, ş, ğ, ı, â, û). Another reported transfer option is to use VAIO Music Transfer (http://www.vaio-link.com/Vaiopocket/downloads/downloads.asp?l=en&f=VMTU). One can directly transfer data files to the device with no software under Windows  if you want to use it as a storage -- when you install the driver the unit is recognized as a removable drive.

I'd like to remark that this player, although still not perfect in every aspect, is the most compelling flash based DAP in the market today IMHO. So you could say it's the dream player I've been looking for starting this thread. But it must be said that this player also has its own set of cons. So I had to compromise on some of my original wishes since there seems to be no player that gets everything right so far. For the sake of clarification I am using this unit with MDR-E888LP model earbuds -- not the default earbuds the device comes with.

So let's start with the pros of this player:

• It has extraordinary battery life: >40 hours. Full charge takes ~3 hours and you can charge for a few minutes if you're in a rush to get about 3 hours playback time. So in terms of energy efficiency no player gets anywhere close to this DAP yet.
• The primary control mechanism driven by the "jog shuttle" is very nicely designed and intuitive. This is probably one of the most important factors in a DAP. But the function of the "Search" button could have been designed better and the "Repeat" button is hard to access. These functions could've been integrated into the shuttle's.
• The OLED display is very nice looking. It looks awesome before you get used to the player.
• Size and weight of the DAP is also very good. AA battery based players can't compete with this form factor.
• Sound quality is quite good. The maximum volume might be a bit low for high volume listeners. I mostly listen to classical and jazz at a reasonable volume but this already corresponds to 25/30 (30 represents full volume).
• The player is a Sony and it bears Sony quality of engineering. You can tell that it doesn't look like some white plastic toy as some other players out there. It feels very solidly built and can't be damaged unless intentionally. But if you compare it to other Sony gadgets, there're better built devices out there -- like the earlier titanium model NW-MS70D.
• The overall design of the unit is very cool. It looks very fashionable. Everyone says it's beautiful.
• I have not used the FM tuner much but other reviewers are raving about its reception.

Now let's list the cons without which this player would have been totally perfect:

• Slow transfer speed. Uploading an album (~70MB) takes about a minute maybe a bit more. But it's a 1GB player and this is not a big problem unless you transfer many albums often.
• Edit: As mentioned by another poster later on the volume might be low for some users. For my everyday use I set it to 25/30 -- quite close to the full level. In comparison I don't remember going above 4/10 of the full volume on my old portable Sony CD player. A few times I needed to set it a bit higher but so far it never happened that full volume level is not sufficient thus I can't complain. I never used the AVLS feature on a Sony portable although Sony recommends it. This makes me think if Sony intentionally lowered the volume of this device to prevent any accidents due to a person not hearing outside sounds.
• When you browse and select a new song/album sometimes it says "Unable to play" on the screen for ~1/3 sec. but then plays normally as if nothing happened. This 1/3 second and the message annoys me. I believe the player is verifying that the song is transferred via a method endorsed by Sony -- so that you won't try to play something illegally from Sony's point of view. Sony has to drop this attitude soon. Edit: After the firmware upgrade, this happens still but rarely. Check the newer posts on how to upgrade the firmware.
• Plastic build. Titanium is the way to go. Edit: Ok, maybe not titanium but any high quality matte metallic build would do fine.
• You can't read the display in bright daylight.
• The OLED could've been larger and even more impressive!  When you consider the entire length of the device, the display could certainly be designed wider. OLED covers about half the full length.
• The bag it comes with is not as small as the player. I wish there was a smaller bag even sold separately. This is important since I wouldn't want to damage the unit by accident. Thus I always carry it in its bag.
• Some people complain in other reviews that the shiny finish could wear out if you are not careful. Apparently if you work out at the gym and get the unit sweaty that's what happens.
• The MP3 file manager software that helps you transfer MP3s don't allow you set up your own folder structure. So you can't for instance group by genre or in a particular way you wish (I think this is possible with iRiver models). You only have one level structure by album.
• It's possible but difficult to group a portion of the tracks for repeat playback. Sometimes I want to disregard some albums and only play some others. To do this is a bit tricky. I figured how to achieve this after a bit of thinking which is not explicitly mentioned in the manual.
• Can't play Vorbis. It could be a hassle to transfer files when Windows 20XX comes out and Sony software support ceases. Edit: apparently you could firmware upgrade the device which is nice. Here is the link (http://www.sony.jp/products/overseas/contents/support/nwwn_fwud_050707_en.html) if anyone is interested.

Although I listed a lot of cons, I think they're by far outweighed by the pros of the device. Overall I am quite happy with my choice and would give this device a total score of 8.5/10. Let me know if any of you who's interested in purchasing this player has further questions. Check this forum (http://www.atraclife.com/index.php?showforum=8) for more important information about this device. For instance there's a tutorial (http://www.atraclife.com/index.php?showtopic=159) on how to create your own display screens and a thread (http://www.atraclife.com/index.php?showtopic=73) for Sony armband for this device (image (http://img123.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/users/3/0/8/2/aunt1120-img600x450-1120575256dsc00658.jpg)).

Here (http://www.siliconpopculture.com/review/109_0_2_0_M/) is yet another review of this device.

(http://www.t3.co.uk/__data/assets/image/158646/SonyNWE507_445.jpg)

• Plastic build. Titanium is the way to go.

You feel like paying an extra $100 bucks for it? Actually, I don't even know if it would be feasable to make a titanium DAP. They have way too many curves and cutouts. You'd have to mill each one of the little holes. (Titanuim is very difficult to work with. You can only cast in in vacuum, otherwise it reacts with the air. It's also very difficult to pressure mold. The reason that apple can use it for the powerbook is that a laptop has two big flat surfaces, so they can use standard extruded sheets with mimimal working.)

An all aluminum or magnesium alloy body would be practical for a DAP since you can cast it in a mold. That's strong enough that you probably couldn't notice the difference. Has anyone done this besides the rio Eigen?

An earlier Sony model NW-MS70D has had the titanium build. But it doesn't have to be exactly titanium. Maybe I should've said good quality metallic build but not a shiny one. This is pretty standard in the world of gadgets -- quite a lot of the digital cameras (not SLR) have a solid metallic build nowadays. Some high end Sony minidisc models also have it.

I am sorry for having delayed this review until now but just now I got around to it.

...

First of all, thank you Atici for taking some time to write a review about this product from Sony. I have to admit I've been following this discussion since its beginning because I was really interested in getting a DAP and didn't even know were to start looking or what to actually look for, so I consider this article managed somehow to get me on the right track.

I ordered a NW-E507 as soon as it got here to Venezuela and according to the store where I got it, I was the very second person who purchased this gagdet and that really felt great.

My impressions are really good and I'm overall satisfied with it except for those little annoying things like (very, at least IMO) low volume level and the bag that came along with the package.

But then, when reading your review I was very confused about some things you said wich may be false or not so true after all. Don't get me wrong but you can actually upgrade its firmware (mine's upgraded by me with ver. 2.0) and I think I read somewhere else that that problem of yours (the "unable to play" message) is solved as well. I also gotta say that you can add a second kind of clock and another screensaver (you can choose between the fishes and the bubbles or sparkling dots that "expand and collapse", as I like to call 'em). And although it has great sound quality (which indeed, it does), I consider max volume level to be extremely low in some cases, don't know where you use it but I carry mine everywhere I go and believe me, on my way to collegue, I can't succefully listen to it because of the annoying bus engine sound and the wind and things like that, so what I mean is that music can easily be "shaded away" (sorry but I don't know how to properly translate that), and I highly doubt 25/31 (note the "31" wich is, in fact, the actual max volume level) be enough for everyday use under some circumstances (keep in mind I do know you didn't say it, but I just wanted to point that out and make it clear).

As I say before, thank you for helping lost souls like me in the path of getting a nice and decent digital audio player. I just felt I had to reply as a way of appreciation.

PS: I consider it to be the best player out there too, though. 

Edit: some minor grammar mistakes.

@MadXviD: Thanks a lot! I did not know about the firmware upgradability and just upgraded it to v2.0. Here is the link (http://www.sony.jp/products/overseas/contents/support/nwwn_fwud_050707_en.html) for anyone else interested. Hopefully this will solve some of the minor issues pointed out. It's funny that we  pretty much agree on the problematic issues about this device.

For the volume problem I recommend buying an in-canal earbud (MDR-EX71 maybe). Those headphones are usually designed to block the outside noise and I heard they do a good job at it. That might alleviate this issue for you. Another option is to raise the level of the music before encoding (but not so much to avoid clipping). This would solve the problem if the CD volume is somewhat low. Edit: mp3gain (http://mp3gain.sourceforge.net/faq.php) seems to be a good solution to achieve this effect.

About the bag. I've just found out that Sony actually has an armband designed for this series. Unfortunately it seems to be only marketed in Japan. I edited my review post to include a link.

By the way I run into another interesting player the other day which could be appealing for other followers of this thread. It's the Samsung YP-U1 (http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000620053110/). It looks like Samsung is coming big soon with many other models both memory based and hard drive based.

An earlier Sony model NW-MS70D has had the titanium build. But it doesn't have to be exactly titanium. Maybe I should've said good quality metallic build but not a shiny one. This is pretty standard in the world of gadgets -- quite a lot of the digital cameras (not SLR) have a solid metallic build nowadays. Some high end Sony minidisc models also have it.
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Huh. I hadn't heard of that one. Ah, it was back during the atrac-only days, no wonder. Well, there aren't a ton of pics but it appears that the thing has a two piece, clamshell type design, and the three holes for the display, controls, and jacks are all along the seams. That explains it. Wierd knob-based controls or a remote-only interface are what you would have to put up with for titanium.

You're right about cameras and minidiscs having metal bodies. I think that is partly a function of size. Plastic is easier to work with at small sizes. The flex of plastic is also better during assembly than rigidity of metal.

I just bought one of these, so I'll let you guys know what I think of it once it arrives. Don't think I'll be using ATRAC3plus @ 48kbps like the package suggests, though 

Only 2 things keeping me from buying one of these.

1) UMD capabilities

2) 2gig capacity

Only 2 things keeping me from buying one of these.

1) UMD capabilities

2) 2gig capacity
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1) Wouldn't count on recordable UMD soon, if ever. Sony's copyright paranoia would probably prevent this.

2) I would expect to see these soon...other makers, such as Cowon, already have 2GB flash players on the market. But why would you need 2GB? You can transcode your 128kbps MP3's to 64kbps ATRAC3plus and double your storage! 

For the volume problem I recommend buying an in-canal earbud (MDR-EX71 maybe).
...

The idea sounds very tempting but unfortunately, Sony is not selling them in this part of the world (meh, seems like third world countries are not their target priority).

As of now, I've been using the ones that came with the package and they're not that bad. I actually haven't been able to find some time to get better ones but who knows, maybe later.

Something I'd like to add to the "cons" list is the included shitty extension cable. God, I hate that piece of crap, it's so uncomfortable. Also, I could mention that I'm not entirely used to that left-shorter-right-longer structure of the cable itself, I'm more into the old-fashioned form. But the one thing I haven't figured out is: what model did they use for wearing the plugs?, seems like neither my dad (wich got one unit too) nor me are getting it right, they keep falling down and won't fit well in our ears ([badjoke] maybe morfological issues are the ones to blame about [/badjoke]). Anyway, all in all, those are headphones related problems, it doesn't have to do anything with the player itself.

One last thing I'm curious about, what unit color does Sony sell in your area/country?. Here in Venezuela, you can choose between blue, pink and silver ones.

Another option is to raise the level of the music before encoding (but not so much to avoid clipping).

This sound interesting but can you point out some "convenient" ways of doing that?. Haven't figured out a good way to go myself.

Edit: grammar.
Edit2: second quote.

CompactFlash are huge, power-hungry, and obsolete.  Try SD instead, they're the same price and faster too..

Actually, SD cards are typically more expensive (have a look on eBay, CF cards are cheaper at any given capacity) and the fastest CF card (http://www.sandisk.com/retail/ext3-cf.asp) can read/write at 20MB/s which is impossible for an SD card to attain (standard only supports transfer rates up to 100mbps [12.5MB/s] in the maximum 4 bit transfer mode).

In terms of power consumption, a solid state CF card is no worse than an SD card. You can also purchase 12GB solid state CF cards, whereas SD is limited to 4GB.

I just bought one of these, so I'll let you guys know what I think of it once it arrives. Don't think I'll be using ATRAC3plus @ 48kbps like the package suggests, though 
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Yay! I did not know this thread actually influenced people to consider what has become my ultimate choice.  Let us know your experiences  and let the HA Sony family grow...  I've never tried ATRAC3 maybe because I am scared without admitting to myself: What if I really like it? What if Sony fanboys are right and ATRAC3plus@64 > MP3@320 ?

Only 2 things keeping me from buying one of these.
1) UMD capabilities[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=324366"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Oh please. Why would a UMD be desirable? It'd simply add moving parts. A DAP with UMD support has no more appeal than the once-introduced-now-total-failure iRiver iDP-100. No one wants another proprietary media. Just get a hard drive player if you're not opposed to moving parts.

Also, I could mention that I'm not entirely used to that left-shorter-right-longer structure of the cable itself, I'm more into the old-fashioned form.

I think all high quality Sony earbuds are asymmetrical, which IMHO are far more comfortable to wear actually. MDR-EX71 is very widely available here. I am sure you can mail order if you want to. It's not expensive either (~$30). If they have the newer Sony MP3 players (which are very recently released here and considered fancy) where you live, I am sure they are likely to carry these earbuds.

One last thing I'm curious about, what unit color does Sony sell in your area/country?. Here in Venezuela, you can choose between blue, pink and silver ones.

I believe E507 comes only in silver because I don't remember seeing other options as I was looking for one. The other models like E405, E505 have more color options but I think they come in the same colors everywhere. I came across [a href="http://products.sony.co.uk/uploads/nw-e400.jpg]this image[/url] which shows black and green as well as pink and blue. I assume silver is different from black.

Quote

Another option is to raise the level of the music before encoding (but not so much to avoid clipping).

This sound interesting but can you point out some "convenient" ways of doing that?. Haven't figured out a good way to go myself.

I have my music in MPC + lossless. So I always do a conversion before I transfer the music to the DAP. I use foobar2000 to do the conversion. If you use the same software you can run the music through the DSP plugins you choose during conversion. For instance if you add a preamp to your DSP chain the volume level will increase. Actually there is a way to achieve the same effect through mp3gain (http://mp3gain.sourceforge.net/faq.php) software. I just looked into this, this actually looks like an overall better solution, especially if your music is in mp3 originally.

In terms of power consumption, a solid state CF card is no worse than an SD card. You can also purchase 12GB solid state CF cards, whereas SD is limited to 4GB.[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=324383"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Even so I don't think I'll ever buy a CF card again and consider them outdated. They might be faster, cheaper, larger in capacity but they sure are very large in dimensions. This renders them quite useless to be employed in any gadget where size is a concern. SD might not be most extreme card format out there in terms of dimensions or the newest (there is xD, miniSD,...) but once you own an SD device you know you are not buying another CF card anymore. So much for the memory card wars...

One thing I didn't see mentioned was an S/PDIF output.  I'm looking into a DAP myself, and I can't seem to find any that have it so far.  Why is that?  Is it lack of demand for one or does it have something to do with copy protection?  I don't see why they couldn't just mute the digital output for the DRM files like iTunes, Napster, etc. but let the unprotected files play through it.

And what about gapless MP3?

I don't think there is any such thing on the current market as gapless playback when it comes to flash players (I'd love to be proven wrong).

So in terms of energy efficiency no player gets anywhere close to this DAP yet.

and that can be attributed to the lower power output, methinks.

From the looks of it, the I5 is the all-around best flash player with its AAA battery support (no need to wait for the unit to recharge or worry about the eventual obsoleteness of the unit because of a built-in battery).  And the kicker is definitely full ogg playback, quite possibly the best format in at least the 80-200 kbps range currently available in flash player units, which enables me to include more music with no loss in transparency. 

And what about gapless MP3?[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=325109")

Sony players support gapless playback if you use ATRAC3. MP3 by design is not a gapless format and therefore there are only workarounds to achieve gapless playback AFAIK. I found [a href="http://www.pretentiousname.com/mp3players/#workarounds]this link[/url] that explains this issue. Thus I don't think there is a universal, encoder independent, solution for mp3 gapless playback.

and that can be attributed to the lower power output, methinks.[snip].From the looks of it, the I5 is the all-around best flash player with its AAA battery support

I doubt it. Almost all Sony players have very good battery life. Their portable CD players with MP3/ATRAC3 support run for 70 hours, which is far beyond anything else with moving parts. I think this could be attributed to extremely power efficient circuitry. Cowon I5 is a good player. I was tempted into it for a while myself. Unfortunately it's a bit large for an AAA based player and its design/build quality does not look as appealing as the Sony. BTW Why they put phrases like "Color Sound" next to the screen is beyond me. It makes no sense and only serves to lower one's opinion of these players. IMHO Samsung makes the best Vorbis DAPs.

Quote

And what about gapless MP3?[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=325109")

Sony players support gapless playback if you use ATRAC3. MP3 by design is not a gapless format and therefore there are only workarounds to achieve gapless playback AFAIK. I found [a href="http://www.pretentiousname.com/mp3players/#workarounds]this link[/url] that explains this issue. Thus I don't think there is a universal, encoder independent, solution for mp3 gapless playback.

Actually, I will transcode on the fly from my lossless archive. Then I do not mind using ATRAC3. I have read that ATRAC3 is not a very good format but I have only seen comparison between "standard MP3" and 64kps ATRAC3 (to verify/deny Sony claims).

Do you know if I can get an ATRAC3 encoder to make my own ABX tests?

Actually, I will transcode on the fly from my lossless archive. Then I do not mind using ATRAC3. I have read that ATRAC3 is not a very good format but I have only seen comparison between "standard MP3" and 64kps ATRAC3 (to verify/deny Sony claims).

Do you know if I can get an ATRAC3 encoder to make my own ABX tests?
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You can download and install SonicStage 3.2 ([a href="http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=9586]where to download[/url]) which does ATRAC encoding. You would probably want to use ATRAC3plus. However you can't transcode your lossless music unless you convert it to WAV (or maybe WMA lossless would work) first since SonicStage do not recognize many codecs. If you convert to WAV the tags will not be carried over during this process. This would be a bit of a hassle for you.

If you want to do an ABX test make sure you adjust the volume before the test: it is known that the SS software changes it during ATRAC3 encoding. I believe ATRAC would have fared better if Sony encoder is not as fast as it is now but cared about resulting file quality more. Also being CBR only in current implementations is a big disadvantage for ATRAC.

There is one (IMHO) very nice player, iBead 600 (see http://www.ibead.co.kr (http://www.ibead.co.kr)). It based on one AAA, has FM, encoder, plays OGG/MP3/WMA and has upto 2 Gb of memory!
What do you think?

Quote

and that can be attributed to the lower power output, methinks.[snip].From the looks of it, the I5 is the all-around best flash player with its AAA battery support

I doubt it. Almost all Sony players have very good battery life. Their portable CD players with MP3/ATRAC3 support run for 70 hours, which is far beyond anything else with moving parts. I think this could be attributed to extremely power efficient circuitry. Cowon I5 is a good player. I was tempted into it for a while myself. Unfortunately it's a bit large for an AAA based player and its design/build quality does not look as appealing as the Sony. BTW Why they put phrases like "Color Sound" next to the screen is beyond me. It makes no sense and only serves to lower one's opinion of these players. IMHO Samsung makes the best Vorbis DAPs.
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Fair points.  I've heard some disparaging words from some previous owners about the Samsung DAPs but it wasn't related to their ogg capability.  I don't have anything to compare the size of the I5 to since this is my first flash DAP, so it's inconsequential to me.  It has held up exceptionally well to regular use since February as well with no obvious signs of wear or tear.

Re: Sony:  Maybe the Sony power efficiency is a combination of lower output and efficient power circuitry.  I'm simply repeating what I've heard elsewhere, which may or may not be 100% accurate.

Aradzish, if that iBead was available outside of the Far East, I might be able to answer your question.  It looks enticing.

Interesting thread.  I've got a feeling based on observation that perfect portable players are going to be manufactured to appeal to the lowest common denominator of "intellegent" listeners with the deepest pockets.  Witness the IPod.  Now I haven't listened to one nor am I savy about their features so I don't want to appear judgemental.  I am open-minded.  Heck I even own and enjoy a Hi-MD Sony Discman as a secondary player, but I'm certainly not going to go drop some more and perhaps alot of money to buy an I-Pod.  Nor will I devest my time from MP3 to their proprietary codec to extract all my music from the orginal.
I've spent enough time lurking around here to assume that the majority of HA's members have made do with the technology pre-Ipod to produce an impressive library at their disposal in just about any situation.  Sorry but I just got off the couch after seeing about 10 I-Pod commericials for cellphones and soft drinks and chips....  I guess instead of watching T.V. I should have thrown in an MP3 disk I ripped through EAC, encoded through lame and burnt with Burnatonce.
I feel like such a nerd now!  Okay I've ranted twice in one night now better say good night!

If someone is interested in purchasing iBEAD 600 or iBEAD 400, I found this site:
http://www.mp3discount.nl/index_uk.html (http://www.mp3discount.nl/index_uk.html).
They deliver internationally and accept PayPal.

atici,

Did you manage to update your player to firmware ver 2.00 ?

I have tried to no avail & would be interested to learn how you did it.

Yes, I did and it works fine. The link (http://www.sony.jp/products/overseas/contents/support/nwwn_fwud_050707_en.html) is also in my review post. I don't notice much of a difference with the new firmware. There's still the "Unable to play" bug appearing sometimes. What is the problem in your case?

I also tried applying mp3gain on my music and now the low player volume is no longer an issue. Now I listen to most my music at 21/30 (instead of the earlier 26/30).

Cygnus X1 also purchased a NW-E407. He said he likes it a lot but did not post his full opinions here. I wonder if he upgraded the firmware.

I looked further & it would appear to be because I haven't got sonic stage installed...

Which isn't good because I was unable to load it on any of my pc's....

I looked further & it would appear to be because I haven't got sonic stage installed.
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I doubt it. I remember the updater software was very primitive, you extract it into a  new directory and run. What step does the problem occur? Did you extract the firmware file?

Edit: I assume you need to have the driver installed for the updated to work. Because without the driver, Windows does not recognize the device. You can download the driver separate from SonicStage: [a href="http://www.aii.co.jp/contents/smojsdmk/overseas/support/PA_Driver.exe]here[/url]. You also need this driver for MP3 File Transfer software to work.

Hmmmmmm

As we know I got the mp3 file transfer to work just fine.

I reinstalled the PA_Driver again *just in case*

Upon running the FW Updater it asks to "Connect the device on which to perform the software update. Close all other applications and do not access the selected device."

Still get the same message though:

"The application cannot run because the system information cannot be found"

Cygnus X1 also purchased a NW-E407. He said he likes it a lot but did not post his full opinions here. I wonder if he upgraded the firmware.
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Yes, where are my manners... 

I don't have much to add, actually, to what has already been said. Rather, I can verify many of the observations by others.

PROS: Great sound quality. OLED is really neat, especially in low-light situations. Battery life is phonomenal, even with --aps MP3's (I hardly ever charge the unit, and I use it for weeks at a time). 1GB of storage holds a respectable amount of music, even at --aps bitrates. Unit is tiny and well-built. Jumping between albums is as easy as pulling a knob - using the menu system to navigate is optional.

CONS: Very slow transfers! Playback is not quite gapless, even with ATRAC. BTW, ATRAC's SQ sucks, and is unusable at any bitrate, IMO (artifacts are evident across entire spectrum of bitrates). Drag-n-drop would be somewhat nicer than using Sony's transfer utility (which is much better than SonicStage, by the way). SonicStage, which you don't have to use if you listen to MP3's, is the worst piece of crap I've ever had the displeasure of using. (Needless to say, I don't use it!)

In short, an excellent player. Biggest downside, IMO, is the very slow transfer times (500KB/sec?), especially compared to my earlier experience with an iPod over IEEE1394. I did reflash the firmware, but haven't noticed any differences between the old and new.

I got mine for about $150 on eBay, making it a little pricey for a 1GB flash player. A 2GB version is coming out soon.....

I managed to part install sonic stage enough to complete the firmware upgrade so all is well in the end

I also saw on engadget that sonic stage is going to be discontinued (I don't know what will replace it though) hopefully something better.

I see that you are able to make your own animated screens for the sony now too (although I couldn't download the 2nd file that converts it to something the sony recognises), I wonder if anyone has made any screens yet?

Sorry to raise a 2 week old thread, but I felt it was somewhat applicable to others reading about the Sony Network Walkman line. I've bought one recently (due to reading this boards threads about correcting issues! Thanks guys) and am having zero issues at all. My only problem is adjusting the time, I hold the menu button as suggested, but the list "repeat mode" is not on my list. I see: sound, volume control, avls, beep and power safe mode. Am I missing something here, or am I just looking in the wrong place? Sorry and thanks again for the help threads about this player. I must admit it fulfills all my intended purposes.

Hmm this thread is quite alive I think, so no problem. It's not a Sony only thread but I'll try to help you. The repeat button is at the back of the player. If you want repeated playback of a group of songs, you should use the search button first so that only those songs are in the playlist and then enable repeat. Is that what you were interested in?

Hmm this thread is quite alive I think, so no problem. It's not a Sony only thread but I'll try to help you. The repeat button is at the back of the player. If you want repeated playback of a group of songs, you should use the search button first so that only those songs are in the playlist and then enable repeat. Is that what you were interested in?
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Glad to hear!

I actually looking to set the date and time on the player. Also, is there an official way of turning the player off? Or does it auto shut off after a certain interval of not being used? Thanks again.

I actually looking to set the date and time on the player. Also, is there an official way of turning the player off? Or does it auto shut off after a certain interval of not being used? Thanks again.
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Check [a href="http://www.docs.sony.com/release/NWE505-507.pdf]the product manual[/url] on how to set time & date (page 31). To turn off the player you stop playback (the play button) and in a few seconds it turns off.

I bought a Rio Nitrus while waiting for someone to manufacture my ideal mp3 player.  I'm sure I'll be waiting for a long time, and the Nitrus serves my basic needs while my more extravagant wishes go unserved.  Here's my list, in some rough order of importance:

* Top-notch support for various forms of internationalization (Unicode and various language-specific encodings).
* Support for a "composer" field.
* Support for lossless codec with cuesheet (preferably FLAC, since that's what I'm archiving in, and preferably supporting external cuesheets).
* Gapless playback.
* The ability to drop MP3s onto the device as a mass storage device, without having to use any particular program to manage your library.
* The ability to play music back in mono mode -- playing both music channels out of both headphone channels.
* A reasonably good normalization mode.
* The ability to create playlists using the device directly.
* The ability to transfer files to another mp3 player (via bluetooth and 802.11b?).
* The ability to play (and record) radio streams through a DHCPed 802.11b connection with pre-entered URLs would be a plus.
* Built-in audio recorder, tuner, and similar gimmicks are a plus.

Each of these would be feasible, though it hardly seems reasonable to hope for all, or even most, of them.  Nevertheless, any player that nailed a few of the top items would get my money for sure.

I bought a Rio Nitrus while waiting for someone to manufacture my ideal mp3 player.  I'm sure I'll be waiting for a long time, and the Nitrus serves my basic needs while my more extravagant wishes go unserved.  Here's my list, in some rough order of importance:

* Top-notch support for various forms of internationalization (Unicode and various language-specific encodings).
* Support for a "composer" field.
* Support for lossless codec with cuesheet (preferably FLAC, since that's what I'm archiving in, and preferably supporting external cuesheets).
* Gapless playback.
* The ability to drop MP3s onto the device as a mass storage device, without having to use any particular program to manage your library.
* The ability to play music back in mono mode -- playing both music channels out of both headphone channels.
* A reasonably good normalization mode.
* The ability to create playlists using the device directly.
* The ability to transfer files to another mp3 player (via bluetooth and 802.11b?).
* The ability to play (and record) radio streams through a DHCPed 802.11b connection with pre-entered URLs would be a plus.
* Built-in audio recorder, tuner, and similar gimmicks are a plus.

Each of these would be feasible, though it hardly seems reasonable to hope for all, or even most, of them.  Nevertheless, any player that nailed a few of the top items would get my money for sure.
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Your dream mp3 player may not be that far away. The [a href="http://rockbox.org]Rockbox[/url] firmware for the iRiver H120/140 is getting very close on a lot of these items. It currently does all of these:

* Support for lossless codecs: FLAC, Wavpack and ALAC
* Gapless playback.
* The ability to drop MP3s onto the device as a mass storage device, without having to use any particular program to manage your library.
* The ability to play music back in mono mode -- playing both music channels out of both headphone channels: not quite, though there has been progress on a Crossfeeder.
* A reasonably good normalization mode: supports replaygain
* The ability to create playlists using the device directly.
* Built-in audio recorder, tuner, and similar gimmicks are a plus.

When it is working on the H300 series it should do all this, plus USB host ability, so it will be able to have:
* The ability to transfer files to another mp3 player

All that seem unfeasable are Bluetooth/802.11b and playing streaming radio. Next we need Rockbox to work for a player that hasn't been discontinued. Rockbox for the iPod, we hear?

To clarify, it would be nice to have a set of normalization tools: One that would recognize/respect pre-configured normalization settings in cuesheets.  Another that would perform the normalization within a playlist on the player itself.  And a third that would work within the tracks to compress the dynamic range of the audio (this one should be configurable to operate 0-100% or on a scale of 0-10, or something like that).  The last one would be particularly useful for circumstances where there is a lot of ambient noise and quiet passages in, say, classical music become pretty much inaudible.  I can't count the number of times where such a feature would have come in handy on my walkman or discman.

Yes I too would like to see a normalisation feature, I can't adjust the gain on some of my mp3's because I no longer have the original songs, Winamp on my PC uses it and its great, it's a shame Sony didn't think of it, I know the ipod mini's have it.

I don't get it. I use mp3gain as I mentioned earlier in the thread and it works simply perfect for me on the Sony.

OK, i'm also looking for my dream DAP. Actually, i think the NANO is, but i would like to buy 2, one for me, one for my wife, and the nano is too expensive. My list is:

PLAYBACK QUALITY: is very important.
FLAHS MEMORY: no moving parts. A Secure Digital (SD) slot is a nice plus, but NOT mandatory.
NO SOFTWARE: should be accessed as a USB drive without any additional software.
USB DESIGN: no cable should be required for the device to be connected to the computer.
LAME: should support native tags and LAME VBR.
SIZE: I want it to be as tiny and light as possible.
CONSTRUCTION: should be of quality.
BATTERY: Must only use a single AAA battery. Charging the AAA battery with the USB port would be a nice plus but NOT mandatory.
INTERFACE: Simple as posible.
RIGHTS: I should be able to download the music back to my computer if I want to.
FIRMWARE: should be upgradeable but is NOT mandatory.

I would be using it for jogging, whule going to work, etc, and i'm targetting for u$s 100 (150 maximum) in USA for a 1GB unit.

So far, i have found the:

YP-U1Z/YP-U1X
YP-F1Z
iAUDIO U2/5/G3

But i'm not sure if they all meet my needs (sometimes specifications are hard to decypher)

Any thoughts?

EDIT: i removed the I-BEAD 600 cause is more than 150 for a GB.

* Gapless playback.
* The ability to drop MP3s onto the device as a mass storage device, without having to use any particular program to manage your library.
* A reasonably good normalization mode.   [esp. replaygain recognition]
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I don't know much about portable MP3 players and have been avoiding them like the trendy plague I thought they were until I read this thread. If anyone knows of something I could buy that could do reliably do those three things, as long as it had at least 1gb of space I would be a very happy man.

Does anyone know a brand called "STAREX" that supposedly uses Samsung components?

Kenwood HD20GA7 (http://www.warehouse123.com/ProductInfo.php?pid=KENHD20GA7-WHT) is one of my dream HDD player! This small HDD player come with a internal headphone amp. This player is one of my christmas shopping list.

Kenwood HD20GA7 (http://www.warehouse123.com/ProductInfo.php?pid=KENHD20GA7-WHT) is one of my dream HDD player! This small HDD player come with a internal headphone amp. This player is one of my christmas shopping list.
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its 300 hundred dollars. i rather buy an ipod.

Kwanbis, I can confirm that the Iaudio 5 meets all your mandatory requirements, except for this one:

USB DESIGN: no cable should be required for the device to be connected to the computer.

A cable is needed, as is the case for most (all?) portable flash media players.

Quote

Kenwood HD20GA7 (http://www.warehouse123.com/ProductInfo.php?pid=KENHD20GA7-WHT) is one of my dream HDD player! This small HDD player come with a internal headphone amp. This player is one of my christmas shopping list.
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its 300 hundred dollars. i rather buy an ipod.
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The sound quality of the kenwood is a lot better than ipod! It is nice that this small player comes with internal AMP!  Ipod is only good at windows dressing .. 

I am waiting for iAudio U3 (http://eng.iaudio.com/product/product_U3_spec.php).

Since there're quite a lot of Sony users following this thread I am posting this info in case it is of any use.

Sony started offering the CK-NW2 carrying case for the newer memory based Sony DAPs for $19.99:
But I am sure I'll find it somewhere. Edit: I learnt the availability date is Jan 10.

It looks like something you'd attach to a horse saddle