Here is test signal that I created and that is death to all compressors.
MPC >800kbps
MP3 -dibrom standard and xtreme: who can't hear that artifacts he is deaf
MONKEY's audio crashes
and so on.
It is 5 sec long.
Zip is 3kb so download it and test it yourself.
Here is link
http://alas.matf.bg.ac.yu/~mn96148/test.zip (http://alas.matf.bg.ac.yu/~mn96148/test.zip)
I can't send zip so here it is uuencoded:
begin 644 test.zip
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M/_[?BS]_]^WA']02P$"%``4``(`"`!Y8TTK6]*ZA[H,``#&=0T`"```````
J`````"``````````=&5S="YW87902P4&``````$``0`V````X`P`````
`
end
sum -r/size 53183/3372
After looking at it, I don't think any codec producer will lose sleep at not correctly enconding this. For one, it doesn't even remotely _look_ like sound, let alone music.
If it crashes Monkey's Audio, you might want to report it to Matt.
--
GCP
Yeah.. there have been a few of these kinds of test signals before. They are kind of fun to play with for academic purposes, but beyond that they don't mean much since this kind of thing never happens in real music.
Test signals are used to easily improve quality of encoders.
That easily stands for "you don't have top quality equipment to hear the artifacts".
Fixing encoding of this sample would also fix fatboy slim and all other songs with pre echo.
I tried lots of switches and here is the one that is pretty good with the above sample as well with fatboyslim (there are artifacts but they are not so big as with dmstd and dmextreme).
--vbr-mtrh -m a -V 4 -b 128 -h --lowpass 19.5
--athshort --athtype 2 --scale 0.98
Stil all non critical songs are really good compressed.
With critical songs sound is something like with --dm insane, maybe a bit worse, but still good enough.
There is problem with very quiet part of songs however, like the beggining of Metallica's "Nothing else mathers".
athtype 2 and b 128 helped there a little but not enough.
athshort is the one that helps with prechos.
nspsytune doesn't help, just songs are bigger and critical samples sound worse.
What do you think about this switch, does anyone have something to add?
in fact similar sounds are quite common in so-called electronic music, esspecialy when listening to Warp's artists (e.g. Aphex Twin).
Originally posted by seaeye
in fact similar sounds are quite common in so-called electronic music, esspecialy when listening to Warp's artists (e.g. Aphex Twin).
There's a difference between similar and equal. For one, I'd be surprised if any actual recording equipment can produce a sound like the one above. It is entirely aritificial.
Tuning on samples like these is worthless IMHO. Similar things go for samples like fatboy. They're pathological cases, not representative.
If you tune on fatboy, you will conclude nspsytune sucks. For general music, it's just the opposite.
--
GCP
Ok, fatboy is very common problem for MP3 and WMA technologies - other codecs like MPC or AAC handle it very well.
I agree that tuning an MP3 encoder for fatboy is useless job. MP3 simply can't encode it well and reducing pre-echo by local bitrate increase is very 'brute-force' way of handling these things. I don't recommend it.
Originally posted by muaddib
Test signals are used to easily improve quality of encoders.
Not these kinds of test signals.
That easily stands for "you don't have top quality equipment to hear the artifacts".
Oh I hear them just fine... they just are irrelevant in this case. Show a piece of real music (besides fatboy and all that which I am already working on) which exhibits this behavior.
Fixing encoding of this sample would also fix fatboy slim and all other songs with pre echo.
"Fixing" this sample would be impossible for MP3.
I tried lots of switches and here is the one that is pretty good with the above sample as well with fatboyslim (there are artifacts but they are not so big as with dmstd and dmextreme).
Have you followed any of the discussion here?
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/showth...st&threadid=131 (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/showthread.php?goto=newpost&threadid=131)
What do you think about this switch ... [--vbr-mtrh -m a -V 4 -b 128 -h --lowpass 19.5
--athshort --athtype 2 --scale 0.98] ..., does anyone have something to add?
Yes, it will sound far worse on real music than both --r3mix or --dm-preset standard. Tuning a line for a sample which is so non representative of any form of real music (such as this one) is a bad idea. As an example, encode udial.wav with MPC. It sounds like shit because the sample causes an excessive amount of clipping due to a rail to rail signal at 22khz. This will never happen in real music but some could draw the conclusion (and I have seen it done) that MPC is not good for music because of this for some reason. The situation you have here is
exactly the same thing.
Originally posted by muaddib
in fact similar sounds are quite common in so-called electronic music, esspecialy when listening to Warp's artists (e.g. Aphex Twin).
This is incorrect. I listen to all kinds of music like this (Aphex Twin, Autechre, Two Lone Swordsman, Pan Sonic, Brume, V/Vm, etc).. a lot of which use very unusual sounds.
None of them are even
remotely like this.
This sample is only a needle impulse. When something like
this would be in real music i think the guilty musician will have
to pay lots of bills for blown tweeters.
Wombat
Monkey's Audio 3.92 works fine with this file on my machine...
Drop me a line if it still crashes with the latest version of MAC.
-Matt
PsyTEL AACEnc encodes it very well - @420 kbps
Monkey's Audio 3.87 crashed, I didn't try it with new versions.
I made similar signal that Monkey's Audio 3.87 compressed with ratio 0.3 (that is mac was 3x bigger). Again didn't test it with newer versions.
Flac compressed above signal with ratio 1:10.
[deleted]
Monkey's Audio 2.92
successful compress this sample - it's right, BUT
it's plugin for winamp canNOT corectly play
this APE file !!!
The sound is lamed in the middle and loudless
clicked at the end of file.
8-(((((
[deleted]
Sorry to bring this thread back up, but how do I un-uuencode this?
Originally posted by plazz
Sorry to bring this thread back up, but how do I un-uuencode this?
Copy/paste all that strange gibberish in the first post (from
begin to
53183/3372) to a text file with the .uue extension.
Then open this file with WinZip. (Other archiving programs should work as well, but I'm sure about WinZip)
If you use Linux, simply run uuencode <file>.uue
Regards;
Roberto.
BTW: I didn't test it, might not work anyway.
Can anyone make a link to the file instead? I don't feel like installing WinZip at the moment and WinAce doesn't seem to be able to handle UUE files correctly... (It outputs a 4kB zip file that is empty/isn't working...)
Originally posted by Sachankara
Can anyone make a link to the file instead? I don't feel like installing WinZip at the moment and WinAce doesn't seem to be able to handle UUE files correctly... (It outputs a 4kB zip file that is empty/isn't working...)
I tested it with Winzip, doesn't work either.
I would believe the uuencoded transcript is corrupted.
Regards;
Roberto.
It didn't work here as well. Could someone give a working link please?
Original link
http://alas.matf.bg.ac.yu/~mn96148/test.zip (http://alas.matf.bg.ac.yu/~mn96148/test.zip)
is working again.
Uuencoded file from post differs in 1 byte from original (char ''), I don't know why.
A friend of mine made a record under the name IAV. In one of his tracks, he used the trigger signal of a cathode-ray tube of a TV as a sound. It might well sound like this.
Anyway, when will someone decide himself and make a song using only those killer samples ?
Maybe we could write to Aphex Twin and suggest them to do so
Heh, up to 20% of my music library on disk is electronic music with parts similar to the Fatboy Slim sample. I don't think it's such a pathological case.
Just tested this with Monkey's Audio 3.96, with no problem. It compressed fine to 60.03% of its original size, then decompressed to a bit-for-bit identical copy of the original. It also played fine in Winamp.
--jeff
RIAA might promote extensive use of killer samples in music to foil warez d00ds in the future.
Originally posted by muaddib
Maybe we could write to Aphex Twin and suggest them to do so
hehe, if Aphex Twin reads this, he´ll start at once. You can be sure, man, this would be something like AFX´s dream, strange sound, making music, killing audiocompressors ... And if Aphex Twin doesn´t take his chance, Squarepusher will do, so take care
hey, how does Ogg Vorbis handles this??
just for the kicks..
This sample is very difficult for me to listen to through headphones for more than a couple seconds; it makes me nauseous. Very strange. If someone put this in real music I would not be a huge fan!
WavPack's hybrid mode handles this fine at 320 kbps, BTW.
Hell,
besides this sample being absolutely unrepresentative - as others have stated before - :
WHY WOULD ANYONE WANT TO COMPRESS A 3KB SOUND FILE ????
Muahahaharrr :rofl:
Originally posted by cookie
WHY WOULD ANYONE WANT TO COMPRESS A 3KB SOUND FILE ????
1) The zip file is 3KB, not the wav file (800+ KB).
2) Because some gaga artists like Aphex Twin might begin to use samples similar to this ... sounds cool for an intro huh?
3) well, just for fun