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Topic: DVD+Audio Creator (Read 24169 times) previous topic - next topic
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DVD+Audio Creator

Reply #25
Well, I tried this piece of soft and need to say - although the resulting quality is decent and acceptable even on a high-end equipment, it's really nothing for the masses, I assume.  
And, me, too, have been looking for a free software that can create DVD-V with 24/48-96 audio... There's a lot of utilities, which can handle DVD VIDEO for free ([Removed per TOS #9], for instance). Let's hope someone could write this for free, too...

DVD+Audio Creator

Reply #26
tigre,

since you've had the time to try it, do you think you could run one more test? I think it would clarify exactly what he's doing...

Make a 44.1kHz 16-bit file with an impulse in the middle of 1 second of silence, and a tone sweep from 1k to 22k over 20 seconds. Have both at 0dB FS and then -6dB FS.

In CEP it would just be

Generate: Silence: 1 second.
Zoom in horizontally to the highest level.
Double click the centre sample
Set the amplitude to 1 (normalised)

Zoom out, click the end of the waveform.

Generate: Tone
initial: 1k, 0dB, everything else zero, duration 20 seconds
final: 22k, 0dB, everything else zero.

click the end of the waveform.

Repeat with 0.5 for sample amplitude, and -6dB for waveform amplitude.

Save it, run it through the program, and compare the result with resampling in CEP.

For the sweep, show the spectral view, 1024 resolution, log 140dB range, don't reverse color spectrum direction.

for the impulse, zoom in (horizontally and vertically) and see what it looks like!


Of course, if you don't have time, you can tell me to get off my arse and do it myself!  but I'm flying to Paris tomorrow, so it won't happen.

Cheers,
David.

DVD+Audio Creator

Reply #27
Here you go: Left channel (upper half of each image) is the (peak = 0.5 / -6dB) versions, right channel (full scale/0dB version).


Sweep resampled with Cool Edit Pro


Sweep resampled with DVD+Audio Creator


Single click resampled with Cool Edit Pro


Single Click resampled with DVD+Audio Creator

From the last picture I'd guess there's a bug in DVD+Audio Creator resampling and/or filtering.
Let's suppose that rain washes out a picnic. Who is feeling negative? The rain? Or YOU? What's causing the negative feeling? The rain or your reaction? - Anthony De Mello

DVD+Audio Creator

Reply #28
LOL!!!!


These audiophiles! 


It looks like he's using an FFT filter with the overlap or length messed up (hence the "head" of the impulse appears after the "tail"!), but that's just a guess.

Cheers,
David.

DVD+Audio Creator

Reply #29
Quote
From the creator of DVD2one comes a new product called DVD+Audio Creator. In DVD+Audio Creator you find a tool that will change the way you listen to your favorite CD albums forever.

DVD+Audio is a DVD-Video compliant format, wich means that your normal standalone DVD player can play the DVD+Audio discs, no need to buy expensive new hardware.
You can create a disc containing multiple albums, compiled from your own normal CD-Audio disc,
but then in either high quality (up to PCM 96kHz/24bits) or high quantity (up to 45 hours MP2 at 192kbps) and thus bringing super-audio quality to any DVD player.

Please note that DVD+Audio should not be confused with DVD-Audio, for which you need a special player and discs!

A revolutionary precise resampling method and resolution enhancing method dramatically improves on the original CD sound quality. Detail, imaging and clarity are dramatically enhanced,
so that you can hear details you never heard before. Bass lines are deeper, rhythme sections become more transparant, voices are clearer.

DVD+Audio is not just any audio dithering or upsampling application, but a true revolution in sound processing!

More information can be found on our website, http://www.eximius.nl/ , aswell as a trial version of DVD+Audio Creator. This trial version allows you to try before you buy the software for 14 days with a maximum of 4 songs per title and 2 title's per volume.

I just wanted to quote the post to preserve it, just in case it gets edited or removed.

I suspect the words "precise resampling" and "a true revolution in sound processing!" will be the first to go


Sorry - I know - I'm being cruel. But it's good to be able to objectively show that a doubtful subjective claim is complete and utter nonsense - and not an ABX test in sight! 

Thanks tigre.

Cheers,
David.

DVD+Audio Creator

Reply #30
You people amaze me, i was allways tought to listen with my ears instead of eyes

So has anyone actually listened on a decent installation to this format? Because i think a good sound field says more then a 1000 charts and plots.

I'am just curious, because well i personally find it rather difficult to listen to audio plots

DVD+Audio Creator

Reply #31
Quote
You people amaze me, i was allways tought to listen with my ears instead of eyes

And why are you amazed? Has anyone said anything different here?

Quote
So has anyone actually listened on a decent installation to this format?

As I've said in a previous post:
Quote
I wasn't able to hear any obvious differences (envy24ht based soundcard+Sennheiser headphones)

Details for you: Foobar2000 with replaygain enabled -> Terratec Aureon Sky -> Sennheiser HD 540 - hopefully decent enough to hear these differences (if they were there):
Quote
A revolutionary precise resampling method and resolution enhancing method dramatically improves on the original CD sound quality. Detail, imaging and clarity are dramatically enhanced,
so that you can hear details you never heard before. Bass lines are deeper, rhythme sections become more transparant, voices are clearer.


I wanted find out more about this "revolutionary precise resampling method and resolution enhancing method" - that's why I analysed using graphs created by CEP. Noone has claimed here that the graphs show that it sounds worse or similar.
Let's suppose that rain washes out a picnic. Who is feeling negative? The rain? Or YOU? What's causing the negative feeling? The rain or your reaction? - Anthony De Mello

DVD+Audio Creator

Reply #32
Well, when my eyes see this:

Quote
A revolutionary precise resampling method


and then see Tigre's plots, they tell me something's not quite right

As for hearing, I think only listen has had any succes at ABX'ing 16/44.1 v/s 24/96, and his results are still being validated here (would be nice to hear from him again!) (*) As for me, I can't ABX any of the samples Tigre posted a while back, so I'll remain perfectly happy with 16/44.1


Cheers, Joey

(*) Oh, David also said he could perceive a difference, but he wasn't ABX'ing

DVD+Audio Creator

Reply #33
Just a question:
Is there really any reason to ABX at this stage as it seems to be an obvious bug in it. ABXing won't really tell you alot then, will it?

DVD+Audio Creator

Reply #34
From the eximius website :

Quote
By popular demand we added support for using either 44.1,48 and 96 Khz 16,24 and 32 bit wav files! Since a lot of people wanted do use their own recorded files at 96/24 to make DVD+Audio discs, we added support for those format aswell.

DVD+Audio Creator

Reply #35
Quote
Just a question:
Is there really any reason to ABX at this stage as it seems to be an obvious bug in it. ABXing won't really tell you alot then, will it?

joey_m is talking about a test with samples that were recorded at 24/96 vs. downsampled versions (to 44.1/16) using (one of) the best free resamplers (SSRC).

ABXing samples upsampled with DVD+Audio Creator vs original would just tell if that *might be a* bug has audible effects.


Since the software seems to support 24/96 input now, there's not much point in discussing the built-in resampler's quality anymore IMO. If resampling is necessary, everyone can choose whatever he wants for this task.
Let's suppose that rain washes out a picnic. Who is feeling negative? The rain? Or YOU? What's causing the negative feeling? The rain or your reaction? - Anthony De Mello

DVD+Audio Creator

Reply #36
Ah.. ok, thanks for clarifying 

DVD+Audio Creator

Reply #37
Quote
You people amaze me, i was allways tought to listen with my ears instead of eyes

So has anyone actually listened on a decent installation to this format? Because i think a good sound field says more then a 1000 charts and plots.

I'am just curious, because well i personally find it rather difficult to listen to audio plots

I thought that this program should be (almost) lossless audio processing utility, and those plots tell me somtehing else.

DVD+Audio Creator

Reply #38
Hi,

Well I thought of giving this trial program a try, you never know in audio.
It worked really nice on the system I tested it on.
My Denon DVD-2900 sounds definitly nicer (better to my ears) than my meridian 508.24 cd player (which is on sale now obviously).
On my computer soundcard (terratec DMX Fire) + nice sennheiser headphones I could clearly hear the difference, but on my stereo the effect seems to be bigger
somehow.
I also tested it on a a Theta Compli cd/dvd/sacd player and on this player the dvd+audio sounded nicer and smoother than playing the cd on this player.
So right now I'm busy converting my cd's, on most dvd's I can fit 2 cd's.
I didn't do any graphing stuff like some of you did, as it is unclear to me what kind of audio signals my ears
like ( a tube amplier measures also not very good, but sound nice).

I tested it on cd's like Music from Madonna
Yello, laurie anderson, Holly Cole etc

Eric

DVD+Audio Creator

Reply #39
Hello erkoaudio, please read the Terms of Service of the board (link at the top of this page), especially the number 8 !
The possible differences won't be discussed without a proper blind test, even if the graph shows that the program adds some distortion to the sound because of an improperly designed resampler.

DVD+Audio Creator

Reply #40
Quote
So right now I'm busy converting my cd's, on most dvd's I can fit 2 cd's.

  wtf...., this makes me think about transcoding my divx/xvid collection to dvd's as well to see them better... 
PANIC: CPU 1: Cache Error (unrecoverable - dcache data) Eframe = 0x90000000208cf3b8
NOTICE - cpu 0 didn't dump TLB, may be hung

DVD+Audio Creator

Reply #41
I coulod imagine that inside an Audio DVD/CD player standard CDs are handled in a kind
of "compatibility mode" that doesn´t use the full potential of the internal DAC.
This may lead to better sound with the DVDs even if theoretical quality is less or equal.
Isn´t it?

Wombat
Is troll-adiposity coming from feederism?
With 24bit music you can listen to silence much louder!

DVD+Audio Creator

Reply #42
Yes, this is the same as SB live cards. It is possible that DVD Players resample CDs to 48 kHz before converting them to analog. If it is the case, performing a better resampling than the hardware would improve the sound. But since unlike computer soundards they don't need to play 44.1 kHz and 48 kHz at the same time, they can just use a DAC accepting both sample rates.

DVD+Audio Creator

Reply #43
Hello,

asking your friends to register on this board just to spampost about your program, and having them violate several board rules in doing so, is not only extremely lame, and makes you look like a total idiot, as far as I'm concerned it's also abuse, so you've already set the first step on your way out of this board by doing it. Strike #1.

You've so far also totally failed to provide any evidence that the claims you were making are true, not that you've seriously tried anyway. Strike #2.

Feel free to make my day by going for the hattrick, dude.

DVD+Audio Creator

Reply #44
Hi,

Ooops, sorry I didn't read the section 8 on blind testing before I posted.
Just wanted to comment on jayce's reaction on what others liked or disliked on the program.
Well the 44.1 to 48 KHz upsampling may explain why my denon 2900 sounds quite harsh when playing cd's.

Eric

DVD+Audio Creator

Reply #45
Quote
Hello,

asking your friends to register on this board just to spampost about your program, and having them violate several board rules in doing so, is not only extremely lame, and makes you look like a total idiot, as far as I'm concerned it's also abuse, so you've already set the first step on your way out of this board by doing it. Strike #1.

You've so far also totally failed to provide any evidence that the claims you were making are true, not that you've seriously tried anyway. Strike #2.

Feel free to make my day by going for the hattrick, dude.

I think the developers kinda lost intrest in the forom, mostly cause people here keep bitching about proof of concept etc. etc. 

How can you proof something that needs to be heard with words? By plotting charts that doesn't make sense? This method is not a typical resampling method, but a way more complex method  that simply can not  be proofed with plotting a simple click chart.

But if you people rather be busy following your own rules, feel free to do so.  I was trying to give this developers a break, but somehow if you're not from a wel known company people here only seemed to be intressed in living in their own little world.

I feel sorry for you, i truly do..

DVD+Audio Creator

Reply #46
Quote
I think the developers kinda lost intrest in the forom, mostly cause people here keep bitching about proof of concept etc. etc. 

How can you proof something that needs to be heard with words? By plotting charts that doesn't make sense? This method is not a typical resampling method, but a way more complex method  that simply can not  be proofed with plotting a simple click chart.

But if you people rather be busy following your own rules, feel free to do so.  I was trying to give this developers a break, but somehow if you're not from a wel known company people here only seemed to be intressed in living in their own little world.

I feel sorry for you, i truly do..

You should read your first post again. Who can take that kind of marketing BS seriously? If you can't proof something, you should't make those claims about it. You could just tell us what your program does and not just make all those stupid  claims about how it will improve audio quality. Isn't it well known fact that audio quality can't be improved, only change it. If it could, I like to do my MP3:s sound better...

 

DVD+Audio Creator

Reply #47
Quote
How can you proof something that needs to be heard with words?
[...]

But if you people rather be busy following your own rules, feel free to do so.  I was trying to give this developers a break, but somehow if you're not from a wel known company people here only seemed to be intressed in living in their own little world.

There are 2 kinds of people on this board: those who follow and understand the rules, and those that can't be arsed to and talk out of their ass. 

It's abundantly clear to which class you and your buddies belong by now.