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Topic: playing wv (wavpack) files on ipod classic (Read 1642 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: playing wv (wavpack) files on ipod classic

Reply #50
ok, i will be more careful when i use it.  i have probably already caused some damage to files

Re: playing wv (wavpack) files on ipod classic

Reply #51
i am trying to positively ascertain - but i dont think that soundcheck carries over to the ipod.  i also do not see anything about soundcheck in the settings on my ipod.  this may be why i originally decided to use mp3gain ?  i dont recall, because that has been over 10 years ago.

Re: playing wv (wavpack) files on ipod classic

Reply #52
It's on my iPod under settings.

Who are you and how did you get in here ?
I'm a locksmith, I'm a locksmith.

Re: playing wv (wavpack) files on ipod classic

Reply #53
i did find a sound check button on my ipod nanos, and my ipod touches

Re: playing wv (wavpack) files on ipod classic

Reply #54
what model is your ipod?

Settings > About > press track forward 2 times.
Who are you and how did you get in here ?
I'm a locksmith, I'm a locksmith.

Re: playing wv (wavpack) files on ipod classic

Reply #55
i think i am gonna stay away from sound check.  it is confusing as to just what it does, and to what songs it does it to.  but it seems to apply its own algorithm to songs that it has its info attached to.  there is a good long discussion at ilounge, but i dont know if it is allowed for me to post a url from a site that might be considered a competitor ?  according to mp3gain, the changes it makes are lossless.  but they do have a program called mp3gainpro, that is not lossless.  i can always go back to my original wv file, if there is a real problem.  if i get permission from someone, i will post the discussion for you.  you may pick up on some stuff that i did not.
but it talks about reducing loud sounds in a song, compared to other portions of the song.  it is my understanding that mp3gain just increases or decreases the entire song by whatever number of decibels is desired.  so that still leaves me with finding a program to apply gain to the m4a songs.  i want to leave my wv files unchanged, since they are like my permanent copy.

Re: playing wv (wavpack) files on ipod classic

Reply #56
my nano model (at least the one i am holding in my hand) is MD477LL   version 1.0.4  PC

my touch is MC547LL/A   version 6.1.6

Re: playing wv (wavpack) files on ipod classic

Reply #57
are you familiar with the program mp4gain ?

Re: playing wv (wavpack) files on ipod classic

Reply #58
i think i am gonna stay away from sound check.  it is confusing as to just what it does, and to what songs it does it to.  but it seems to apply its own algorithm to songs that it has its info attached to.  there is a good long discussion at ilounge, but i dont know if it is allowed for me to post a url from a site that might be considered a competitor ?  according to mp3gain, the changes it makes are lossless.  but they do have a program called mp3gainpro, that is not lossless.  i can always go back to my original wv file, if there is a real problem.  if i get permission from someone, i will post the discussion for you.  you may pick up on some stuff that i did not.
but it talks about reducing loud sounds in a song, compared to other portions of the song.  it is my understanding that mp3gain just increases or decreases the entire song by whatever number of decibels is desired.  so that still leaves me with finding a program to apply gain to the m4a songs.  i want to leave my wv files unchanged, since they are like my permanent copy.

You have several options:

1)  Use soundcheck which does exactly what you want using iTunes.

2)  Stop using iTunes, install rockbox and use replaygain, which will do the same thing as SoundCheck.

3)  Stop using iTunes and instead use foobar2000's iPod plugin to copy over songs, which can use replaygain in place of soundcheck.

4)  Use foobar2000 or similar software to apply lossy gain adjustment to your files. 

#1 is by far the easiest option.

Re: playing wv (wavpack) files on ipod classic

Reply #59
does replaygain not work with m4a files ?


Re: playing wv (wavpack) files on ipod classic

Reply #61
i want to stick with itunes and apple firmware on the ipod.  i do not want to use soundcheck.  i have done a lot of research, and too many people have too many issues with it.  am i correct in thinking that this leaves me 2 lossless options (m4a or wav) ?
i understand that wav does not have any metadata, except for the song title.  m4a does.  i am currently having problems finding a way to apply a standardized gain to m4a files that itunes will recognize. 
can gain be applied to a wav file, that itunes would recognize ?

Re: playing wv (wavpack) files on ipod classic

Reply #62
Have you actually tried soundcheck before just writing it off? Add a few albums in to iTunes, enable soundcheck and have a listen on the PC to see what it's like.

I've been using soundcheck in the car for shuffling and it works pretty well.

Soundcheck\Replaygain is never going to 100% perfect with volume leveling but what your planning to do with mp3\4gain sounds like a total nightmare to manage.

Have you though about just ditching lossless on your iPod and using a high bitrate m4a. With lossy m4a in the 300-400kbps range i very much doubt you would even be able to tell the difference between them and lossless. added bonus is that you'll be able to fit approx twice the amount of music on your device.

Who are you and how did you get in here ?
I'm a locksmith, I'm a locksmith.

Re: playing wv (wavpack) files on ipod classic

Reply #63
regarding soundcheck, i guess that is a very last resort

my portable listening right now is with mp3s.  i dont know what the bit rate is on them - i cant say i was aware that there was any choice.  i am pretty sure i use the lame encoder or decoder.  whatever foobar does.  but i very seldom add anything new to that library, which i would like to gradually replace with what was gonna be a lossless library - that was my end goal

as far as being hard to manage, mp3gain is a fairly quick and simple process, that you run once on the files.  now you may still want to run it here and there on individual files.  it has been my experience that some files end up too soft, because some short loud sound makes it seem louder than it is.  but that may be 1 out of 100, if that many.  but typically i just run mp3gain once on a file, and i am done with it.  so i dont see that as any sort of big deal over the long run.  especially since you can run it on your entire library, all at the same time, if you choose.

i dont know anything about 4ma.  i thought that was an apple thing, and i had 2 choices of their lossless or lossy. 
room was a big issue a long time ago.  but it is no longer much of an issue.  i just purchased a 1 tb ipod yesterday.  i could have gone to 2, but from my calculations, i think i could fit everything i would ever want in wav form on 1 tb.  i have lots of bear family boxsets, as well as tons of individual cds.  and there are some artists that i copy over a high percentage of stuff.  but for the most part, i am only gonna put a small percentage of my total ripped collection on ipod.

my ipod is for stuff that i like a lot, not for songs that i dont like much at all.  or something i may want to listen to, once in a blue moon.  so luckily that is not an issue for me any more.

i would definitely consider the wav option, if it meant i could easily gain it, and not gain the m4a files.  every once in awhile i may get curious, if i cant recall which artist is playing the song.  but that is a minor inconvenience.  i DO NOT want songs playing at markedly different volume levels - that destroys my listening.  i dont really like it, when an individual song does that.  luckily for me, that is pretty rare - i listen to oldies in country, pop and rock.  songs that typically focus on melody, and are at the same volume from beginning to end.

Re: playing wv (wavpack) files on ipod classic

Reply #64
i just loaded the song sugar, sugar into foobar.  it has a bit rate of 192.  most songs sound pretty good.  but that bit rate does have some issues with some songs that are noticeable to me.  it isnt the end of the world if i just stay with mp3s - it is pretty dang enjoyable.  but if i could better it, from hereon out, i thought i would give it a try

Re: playing wv (wavpack) files on ipod classic

Reply #65
i just checked the bit rates of the mp4 files.  the m4a file had a bit rate of 851.  when mp4gain did its thing on that same file, it created an aac file with a bit rate of 129.

Re: playing wv (wavpack) files on ipod classic

Reply #66
as you may have guessed, i dont give up easily.  i found a program that will do what i want.  i have tested it.  itunes definitely recognizes the gain change.  because the volume is noticeably lower.  at this point, i see no way of changing the number.  it seems to set everything at the 89 decibel range.  but that has always been my experience.  mpgain allows me to change the number, but it does default to 89.  what i dont get is that how can there be clipping at higher rates, when just about every cd i have ever heard is higher than the 89.  every once in a great while, mpgain would actually up the decibel range, but you wouldnt want to hold your breath !!  http://www.kanssoftware.com/

Re: playing wv (wavpack) files on ipod classic

Reply #67
Foobar will let you change the gain in any lossless file via transcoding.

There is really no reason to do this though since you can use the built in soundcheck feature to do exactly what you want about a 1000x faster.

Re: playing wv (wavpack) files on ipod classic

Reply #68
for those who want to understand why I DO NOT WANT TO USE SOUNDCHECK, please read this 6-page discussion.  nobody knows for sure how it works, and what it actually does.

and many people do not get the results they want.  this is not true with mp3gain, or this m4a gain program.  they simply go thru each file that you send it (individual or batch), and update the file with the gain info.  it does not change the file, only the loudness of the playback.  and of course if it plays too loud, you can get distortion.  at any time you can decrease the gain, and lose whatever distortion that may have been created.  it is very simple and straightforward.  and EXTREMELY EASY TO DO.  send it a batch of files, and then go about your business.  i am new to this program with m4a's.  but i have a lot of experience using mp3gain, and it is a very simple process.  what i would like an answer to is why 89 decibels has been established as some magic number, when most every cd i have listened to has a higher decibel rating.

https://forums.ilounge.com/threads/listening-levels-on-ipod-a-guide-to-using-soundcheck.61187/?__cf_chl_jschl_tk__=pmd_1HHDnN68T6H6vEcH9aJa36jZwviLCB1MCqndVadPD7I-1634086910-0-gqNtZGzNAlCjcnBszQj9

Re: playing wv (wavpack) files on ipod classic

Reply #69
mp3gain uses original replaygain standard to workout the target loudness of the song. this is where the 89dB comes from.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReplayGain
Who are you and how did you get in here ?
I'm a locksmith, I'm a locksmith.

Re: playing wv (wavpack) files on ipod classic

Reply #70
thanks.  according to the article - The target loudness of ReplayGain utilities is 89 dB sound pressure level. The SPL reference comes from a SMPTE recommendation used to calibrate playback levels in movie theaters.
my two cents tells me this is not a good standard for cds.  if it really was, the manufacturers of cds would abide by it.  the very fact that very few cds have that low of a level, tells me that the person setting this standard made a mistake.  or what might be more accurate is that what might be optimum for playback levels in movie theaters is not what is optimum for producing cds.
i now have all the pieces of the puzzle that i need, in order to create my system, thanks to you guys, and especially to AMED.  i wanted to make absolutely sure that i had a program to normalize the loudness.  however, i plan to start out by just converting the wavpack files to m4a files, and load the m4a files into itunes.  and just see how variable the loudness really is with the m4a files.  i want to get at least 500 songs in there, so i can get a good feel for the variability in sound.  and then if at any time, i want to even it out, i will have a program that i can call up, and go thru the whole library, adjusting the gains.
from my personal experience, this will always leave some files playing too softly.  and they tend to be the softer songs that have a small loud portion to them.  as i listen to the songs, i make mental notes to add some gain to it.  with my music tastes, that may happen once every 100 songs.  it can also be annoying to be listening to your playlist, and have a song you really like that you can barely hear !!  i generally have my ipod in a little waist holder, while riding a bike.  so it is not available to me, without a lot of inconvenience.  i will once in awhile stop my bike to see which artist is playing if i dont know, but i gotta be awfully darn curious at the time - LOL.  for those of you who might be wondering - once a song is loaded into itunes, you can run the gain program on the file, and itunes will pick it up.  it wont transfer over to your ipod until you do a sync.  but you do not need to do a re-load of the song to itunes

Re: playing wv (wavpack) files on ipod classic

Reply #71
if you want to use this program to do multiple files, then you gotta use whatever defaults the program chooses for each song, as far as i can tell.  but if you call up a song individually, you can increase it to what you want.  however, it does not allow you to clip the file.  mp3gain would allow that, if you so chose.  but i understand the logic, here.  if you want to normalize your library, then run the program on your entire library with the defaults set.  which is probably gonna be best for most songs.  then if there are some individual songs that you want to mess with, then call them up individually.  right now, i am still tinkering with the program, trying to better understand all my options.  what it does and doesnt do.  you can normalize under both peak and average levels.  i dont think you can cause distortion if you do the peak, no matter what you do.  i also played around with normalizing on average levels, even though i wasnt quite sure just what that meant.  doing that, you can definitely cause LOTS OF DISTORTION by applying too much gain. 

Re: playing wv (wavpack) files on ipod classic

Reply #72
for those who want to understand why I DO NOT WANT TO USE SOUNDCHECK, please read this 6-page discussion.  nobody knows for sure how it works, and what it actually does.

I did read this thread.  Sound check lets you write the volume you want a file to be played at to the iPod. It is the iPod's version of replaygain essentially, and in fact you can use it to implement replaygain.

and many people do not get the results they want.  this is not true with mp3gain, or this m4a gain program.  they simply go thru each file that you send it (individual or batch), and update the file with the gain info.  it does not change the file, only the loudness of the playback.

Did you see option #3 I suggested above where you use foobar2000 to copy the replaygain values into the iPod's sound check feature?  This will give you the exact same effect as mp3gain, except it will work on any file type, not just MP3s.  Otherwise you're stuck actually transcoding the files, which is slow and obviously not lossless.

 

Re: playing wv (wavpack) files on ipod classic

Reply #73
and many people do not get the results they want.  this is not true with mp3gain, or this m4a gain program.  they simply go thru each file that you send it (individual or batch), and update the file with the gain info.  it does not change the file, only the loudness of the playback.

Did you see option #3 I suggested above where you use foobar2000 to copy the replaygain values into the iPod's sound check feature?  This will give you the exact same effect as mp3gain, except it will work on any file type, not just MP3s.  Otherwise you're stuck actually transcoding the files, which is slow and obviously not lossless.
This is what I do when syncing music from Foobar2000 to the ipod with the ipod plugin and it works extremely well.
Who are you and how did you get in here ?
I'm a locksmith, I'm a locksmith.

Re: playing wv (wavpack) files on ipod classic

Reply #74
hi guys, sorry for my late response.  i didnt realize that anyone had posted.  i may not totally understand option 3.  i think i tuned it out, when it said "no longer use itunes".

i really like itunes.  it allows me to make any sort of playlists that i want.  and of course, i am familiar with it.  i have a main folder on my computer for my m4a converts.  i have many sub-folders.  but the lowest level of sub-folder has the label of an artist.  i dont try to break it down any further than that.

whenever i want to load up itunes, all i do is point to the main folder.  itunes is smart enough to only add songs that are not already there.

i will also be deleting songs.  the main reason i am starting this project now, is that i am starting to rip lots of unsealed stuff that i have never listened to, before.  if it is an artist that i dont like all that much, i will listen to the wv files, and only convert the ones that i want.

however, if it is an artist that i like, and know i will be converting most of the songs, then i simply just convert the complete artist folder.  will then end up listening to them on my ipod, and deleting the ones that i dont want on my ipod.

my terrabyte ipod has not yet arrived.  once i get some songs loaded onto it, and listen to them, i will keep you updated, as to just how variable the loudness on the songs actually is.

so i am using eac to rip to wavpack.  and then converting to m4a, using foobar.  and then using itunes to load the m4a songs into my itunes library, and sync to my ipod.

i cant recall if i already said this, but i now have 2 itunes libraries on my computer.  the old one has only mp3 files.  and the new one will have just m4a files.  i do not plan to add anything to the mp3 library, but i will use it for a long time.  as i gradually build up my  m4a library.


 
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