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Topic: I have lost 6months of tagging! (Read 6531 times) previous topic - next topic
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I have lost 6months of tagging!

Dear Foobar Community, I setup foobar to write tag information via TagBox to all my MP3's and AIFFs.
Today after a reinstall of windows, it would seem that all the months of tagging have just disappeared.

I have one question: Does Foobar write tag meta to the file itself or to a database? (which presumably i've now lost due to the clean format of windows).

My music catalogue shows over 4000 songs untagged... i just find it hard to believe from my catalogue of 6000 i haven't accomplished more in the 6 months i've been using Foobar : /

Re: I have lost 6months of tagging!

Reply #1 –
Quote from: F0B!C on
I have one question: Does Foobar write tag meta to the file itself or to a database?
It writes to the file itself for me, but I do not use TagBox and have no idea what role that may have played.  Questions:

1.  Do you use the External Tags or M-Tags plugins?

2.  Can you look at a backup of your music files done prior to the reformat and check them with an external tagger like Mp3tag for the presence of embedded tags?

Re: I have lost 6months of tagging!

Reply #2 –
Hey @sveakul

I haven't used any other tagging app than Foobar. I'm not even sure what M-Tag is and after reading your message i decided to think bakc to a number of tracks that i know 100% i tagged to see if they still retain them... and they do not. I have also checked in Winamp to see if tags on the said tracks are present, they are not.

I wonder if this has happened because the tags i am writing to are mainly Comments, Genre & Rating, all 3 of which are not natively supported by Foobar? (i had to add them as customs columns using some syntax provided by users on here). Either way this is devastating to me. I am set to go on tour and none of my professional catalogue has retained its tagging it would seem. My "key"ing software Mixed in Key writes track keys to each tracks Comment field and they have been retained. Genre & Rating however, the 2 tags i set in Foobar have not been.

in answer to question 2, all my files are located on an external drive the reformatting i believe shouldn't have had any impact on them at all. Foobar just reads the assigned folder on launch (provided its connected via USB) et voila. Any other thoughts appreciated.

Re: I have lost 6months of tagging!

Reply #3 –
As sveakul replied, foobar2000 writes tags to the files. You having added custom columns doesn't change this.

There are some exceptions though.

Both the mentioned M-Tags and External Tags components allow tags to go to separate external files or to a database. I believe there's also a component called foo_customdb, which allows chosen tag fields to get written to a database.
But I didn't see any mention of these in your earlier forum posts and all these components require you to manually adjust settings to enable their database behavior. If you didn't copy your foobar2000 from someone else or have no memory of enabling these component, then it's pretty certain tags have been written to files.

I browsed through your old posts and based on this thread you did see the tags with third party software. If they had been in a some foobar2000 database that would not be the case.

Btw, using Winamp is not the best decision for tag verification. Its tag support is not nearly as extensive as foobar2000's or Mp3tag's.

Would it be possible for you to upload a single example track that now looks untagged but you are certain that you tagged it earlier?

Re: I have lost 6months of tagging!

Reply #4 –
Hi @Case
I have spent the past hour trying to be 100% certain of such tracks. But even the tracks mentioned I'm 100% certain of were tagged, after reviewing them, i realise some tracks from that artist are tagged and others aren't so i cannot be sure.

I've added a couple (mp3 and Aiff) that i think were tagged,  but I'm not sure.

I am going to end this thread as i don't want to be "that guy" who sparked a witch-hunt for a witch that never existed. I'll be more cautious and actually document the tracks incase it happens again i'll have evidence. I guess i'm just a slow tagger :/

Re: I have lost 6months of tagging!

Reply #5 –
Thanks for the samples. Both of those tracks have tags and they are visible in foobar2000.

Re: I have lost 6months of tagging!

Reply #6 –
Hi yes but not in the rating section, which is custom and what i'm querying (sorry should have mentioned).
Can you see the rating? Also in genre of Odd Concept does it show TCNO or other please? Genre was changed to harmonise with Rekordbox software. Thanks!

Re: I have lost 6months of tagging!

Reply #7 –
The AIFF file has genre "MIN TEC".
Neither track has rating. How exactly did you add the rating? If you had Playback Statistics component installed and used its context menu to rate the tracks, the data goes to database by default. That is documented behavior.

Both tracks also have binary GEOB blobs with some marker data. These are not written by foobar. It's possible that whatever software wrote these tags nuked the somewhat custom rating fields written by foobar2000.

Re: I have lost 6months of tagging!

Reply #8 –
Well most tracks are purchased from Juno Download, and they don't tag their AIFFs. The mp3's come from numerous channels (free promos, free downloads, ripped low rated albums etc). Whatever tagging you can see in the samples was likely added via iTunes (my original catalogue, since transferred to foobar when switching to Windows from OSX), Mixed in Key and/ or Traktor scrtach pro... i mean i know this isn't helpful info as i can't confirm which software as its an 20 year old collection.

But all the newer track ratings and genres were tagged using TagBox in Foobar including the two uploaded. If you have a suggestion of what measures i should take to mitigate any future nukes :D i'd appreciate. thanks again.

Re: I have lost 6months of tagging!

Reply #9 –
Note that foobar2000 doesn't reload cached metadata info if the size or modification time of the file don't change.

I'd recommend tagging some sample tracks with all the info you need and then using the files normally in all your other software. Preferrably also do tag editing in them, if you do that even occasionally. Then force foobar to reload tag info for the files and observe if some fields vanish.

I'd also recommend backing up your foobar2000 configuration. It saves a lot of time not having to configure everything from scratch. Backing up %appdata%\foobar2000 accomplishes this. And if need be, you can force foobar2000 to write the cached info it has back to the file tags.

Re: I have lost 6months of tagging!

Reply #10 –
I have lost playback statistic data in years prior by accident, I think one time that was due to OS migration as well. I'm not even sure exactly how it happens but it seemed to particularly affect files lacking other data/tags. Skip forwards to today and I hope to avoid that problem ever happening again by having playback statistics automatically write to file tags (also using the aforementioned External Tags so it'll work for any format), as well as customised Rating and Playcount columns that will flag up errors if the ratings or playcounts in the foobar db and in the tags are not identical. Here it is in case it's any use to you:

Code: [Select]
$ifequal(
%rating%,
$meta(rating)
,,❌)

$ifequal(
%play_count%,
$meta(PLAY_COUNT)
,,❌)

Re: I have lost 6months of tagging!

Reply #11 –
Thats amazing! though i would need some directions on how to use it correctly. My scripting knowledge is severly limited.
I have again started to tag my collection and after looking at the number of tracks that don't have any tags i am now certain i did lose all the tagging i had appended to the files over 2021.

I am trying to find a software that will let me inspect aiff's once they are tagged to ensure its been appended to the file itself instead of a database. I tried to use Adobe Bridge though that doesn't seem to show the tags i have appended within Foobar. Could it be that the Ratings and Comments tags that i am adding via foobar are not native to the format and hence are unable to be saved?

Re: I have lost 6months of tagging!

Reply #12 –
Quote from: F0B!C on
I am trying to find a software that will let me inspect aiff's once they are tagged to ensure its been appended to the file itself instead of a database.
Any good tagger like Mp3tag, Kid3, etc. will let you do this, e.g. attached.

Re: I have lost 6months of tagging!

Reply #13 –
Don't you hate it when stuff just disappears like that? I keep having issues with my cover art; that's why I have it on a separate tab so I can switch to something else and ignore it.

Re: I have lost 6months of tagging!

Reply #14 –
Quote from: sveakul on
Quote from: F0B!C on
I am trying to find a software that will let me inspect aiff's once they are tagged to ensure its been appended to the file itself instead of a database.
Any good tagger like Mp3tag, Kid3, etc. will let you do this, e.g. attached.
Yer i've used Kid3 in the past and just used again to see if my latest tag is being appended... and it's not!?
Track is Egorythmia - S.M.O.T.U.

Here are 2 screenshots. Note that i am only appending meta data for Genre, Rating and Comments (overwritten with Key by Mixed in Key analysis algorithm). Genre and Rating meta has been added via Script. Any help appreciated.



Re: I have lost 6months of tagging!

Reply #15 –
It just so happens that the SMOTU track is an mp3, i just realised, does that matter?

Re: I have lost 6months of tagging!

Reply #16 –
Your screenshot shows all the tags in the MP3. Note that the upper tag ID3v1 is very limited and doesn't support all the fields. But everything is there in the ID3v2 tag.

Re: I have lost 6months of tagging!

Reply #17 –
Quote from: Case on
But everything is there in the ID3v2 tag.
Aye, double check your ID3 versions, which carries what info... might be an explanation already.

As for custom fields (and multi value metadata) - all DJ packages do a horrendeously bad job displaying/handling metadata.
I've flagged this extensively, unfortunately too few people care:
https://www.native-instruments.com/forum/threads/traktor-file-analyze-removes-alters-existing-metadata.334601/#post-1711119
so it's been like this for years and NI doesn't take any action (but neither do Serato nor Pioneer/Rekordbox for their abyssimal metadata handling...)

There's really only one golden rule = do backups
as harsh/unhelpful as that sounds...  also, in longer time cycles than a few days/weeks. Having multiple backups, going back up to a year, saved  my ass & sanity multiple times...
Good luck - this is utterly frustrating.
c.

Re: I have lost 6months of tagging!

Reply #18 –
Quote from: Case on
Your screenshot shows all the tags in the MP3. Note that the upper tag ID3v1 is very limited and doesn't support all the fields. But everything is there in the ID3v2 tag.
Actually i think Rating is missing in ID3v2 , no? Or am i just blind?

Re: I have lost 6months of tagging!

Reply #19 –
Quote from: alec.tron on
Quote from: Case on
But everything is there in the ID3v2 tag.
Aye, double check your ID3 versions, which carries what info... might be an explanation already.

As for custom fields (and multi value metadata) - all DJ packages do a horrendeously bad job displaying/handling metadata.
I've flagged this extensively, unfortunately too few people care:
https://www.native-instruments.com/forum/threads/traktor-file-analyze-removes-alters-existing-metadata.334601/#post-1711119
so it's been like this for years and NI doesn't take any action (but neither do Serato nor Pioneer/Rekordbox for their abyssimal metadata handling...)

There's really only one golden rule = do backups
as harsh/unhelpful as that sounds...  also, in longer time cycles than a few days/weeks. Having multiple backups, going back up to a year, saved  my ass & sanity multiple times...
Good luck - this is utterly frustrating.
c.

Like you bud, i have been ripping on Pioneer for years and like you say, no one actually givesashite. Its a control thing to keep us grazing within the bounds of their eco-system (I'm sure we can thank Apple for that mentality).

I have no problem with doing the backups, but like i mentioned i want to ensure the tags are being appended first. I don't think my example was a great one tbh, as MP3 doesn't give me issues generally, its the .aiff's that do, so maybe ill try post examples of those for completeness?

Re: I have lost 6months of tagging!

Reply #20 –
Quote from: F0B!C on
Quote from: Case on
Your screenshot shows all the tags in the MP3. Note that the upper tag ID3v1 is very limited and doesn't support all the fields. But everything is there in the ID3v2 tag.
Actually i think Rating is missing in ID3v2 , no? Or am i just blind?
It's the last line, popularimeter.

Re: I have lost 6months of tagging!

Reply #21 –
Quote from: Case on
Quote from: F0B!C on
Quote from: Case on
Your screenshot shows all the tags in the MP3. Note that the upper tag ID3v1 is very limited and doesn't support all the fields. But everything is there in the ID3v2 tag.
Actually i think Rating is missing in ID3v2 , no? Or am i just blind?
It's the last line, popularimeter.
Perhaps, though i've never heard of the term popularimeter, in any case i need my tags to be appended called 'Rating', not the popularimeter, and are out of 5 not 128 :D
Or are you saying i should be using that tag instead of my custom rating tag. If so, do you know if its relevant fro .AIFF aswell?

Re: I have lost 6months of tagging!

Reply #23 –
Quote from: F0B!C on
Perhaps, though i've never heard of the term popularimeter, in any case i need my tags to be appended called 'Rating', not the popularimeter, and are out of 5 not 128 :D
Unfortunately, if you were to use your own custom rating field and scale, then you'd need a media player/dj app, that is capable to read & display those.
So, if you want to use the rating field across a wide spectrum of media programs (and see rating as 1-5 'stars' in Traktor/Rekordbox for example- although both are slightly different and bug ridden still imo when it comes to metadata), you will need to stick to the defined metadata container conventions that each format has set (and each media player interpretes these slightly differently as well - but stuff like POPM / Popularitmeter, are pretty much set in stone [see - https://id3.org/id3v2.3.0#Popularimeter ]... as is the rating scale of 0-255 for it that relates to 1-5 stars...).
As for understanding cross container names & values a bit better, this from mp3edit might help:
https://help.mp3tag.de/main_tags.html
[but, it's only true for mp3edit... Foobar and/or Rekordbox will show/use things slightly differently on the large scale....]

c.

ps. same for foobar sits here:
https://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=Tag_Mapping

Re: I have lost 6months of tagging!

Reply #24 –
Quote from: alec.tron on
Quote from: F0B!C on
Perhaps, though i've never heard of the term popularimeter, in any case i need my tags to be appended called 'Rating', not the popularimeter, and are out of 5 not 128 :D
Unfortunately, if you were to use your own custom rating field and scale, then you'd need a media player/dj app, that is capable to read & display those.
So, if you want to use the rating field across a wide spectrum of media programs (and see rating as 1-5 'stars' in Traktor/Rekordbox for example- although both are slightly different and bug ridden still imo when it comes to metadata), you will need to stick to the defined metadata container conventions that each format has set (and each media player interpretes these slightly differently as well - but stuff like POPM / Popularitmeter, are pretty much set in stone [see - https://id3.org/id3v2.3.0#Popularimeter ]... as is the rating scale of 0-255 for it that relates to 1-5 stars...).
As for understanding cross container names & values a bit better, this from mp3edit might help:
https://help.mp3tag.de/main_tags.html
[but, it's only true for mp3edit... Foobar and/or Rekordbox will show/use things slightly differently on the large scale....]

c.

ps. same for foobar sits here:
https://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=Tag_Mapping

THAT is a super helpful explanation. Thank you very much! I will change all my rating tags to popularometer then, however i can't seem to work out why my custom Rating tag with value 3 is recorded as 128 in the popularimeter? (view screenshots) Surely it should just be the same value of 3, no?
Also is there a way to display the Popularimeter field in Foobar as i would need to sort all the tagging thus far and then bulk select/ apply the Popularimeter rating to all in one go, though i can't figure out how to do this please?