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Topic: Anyone tried the newer noise cancelling headphones? QC35, MDR1000X. (Read 10366 times) previous topic - next topic
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Anyone tried the newer noise cancelling headphones? QC35, MDR1000X.

Recently my company decided to put a closet-sized closed server rack in our small office room, which makes lots of noise cause of the fans. Being that usually these types of racks don't get installed inside the very small offices where people, you know, have to do work, the fans are the cheapest, loudest (small and many vs. big and few) there are.

Anyway, I have to spend a couple of hours every day here, and have tried my Bose QC 25 headphones, but unfortunately I can still hear the higher freq fan hum. They're good for the airplane and for some other low-freq noises, but not for everything else. I'd been looking into wireless headphones anyway for convenience, and this problem might finally make me splurge for better ones.

Sony claims it reduces a whole lot of noise from a whole lot of sources with their newer headphones. Price is steep though, but they also come with cool features such as gesture controls and passthrough sound so you can talk without taking them off. If I'm understanding the marketing correctly, they say they can do noise profiling to further reduce the ambient noise.

So anyone tried these? I'm not really looking into the QC35 cause I'd prefer not buying Bose, but I'm asking about them cause I'm assuming their noise cancellation is on par with my QC25's, which as I said is insufficient. So if someone can tell me the MDR1000X are considerably better at reducing the computer fan noise I'm talking about, I'll try them out. I've read some of the Amazon reviews, but the ones that mention Bose say how "superb" or whatever their noise reduction is, so being that my QC25's are not that great for this type of noise, I wonder if I should trust those reviewers.

Re: Anyone tried the newer noise cancelling headphones? QC35, MDR1000X.

Reply #1
Hi Andy.

I have never had a good experience with an active noise cancelling headphones.

I recommend either sealed cans or in-ear monitors.  I have the latter, and spent the extra $100 to get custom-molded tips, which I can keep in comfortably for hours.  Mine are etymotics via their custom-tip program, but basically companies like microsonic will make a custom tip for just about any headphones you have, if you send them ear impressions.  Like I said, $100 should get you professional ear impressions and a pair of custom silicone tips.  Let me know if you want details.

Re: Anyone tried the newer noise cancelling headphones? QC35, MDR1000X.

Reply #2
I have never had a good experience with an active noise cancelling headphones.

Well, I have.  I don't assume that because I have others will, and I see no logical reason for you to suppose that because you haven't others won't.  So I wonder why you wanted to chime in with your recommendations for something he didn't ask about in the first place...

But then I am a grouchy old man.

Ed Seedhouse
VA7SDH

Re: Anyone tried the newer noise cancelling headphones? QC35, MDR1000X.

Reply #3


Well, I have.  I don't assume that because I have others will, and I see no logical reason for you to suppose that because you haven't others won't.  So I wonder why you wanted to chime in with your recommendations for something he didn't ask about in the first place...

But then I am a grouchy old man.



Yes you are, and not adding anything with your comment.

Andy asked for a headphone solution to a noisy work environment.  I gave him one.  You did not.

Re: Anyone tried the newer noise cancelling headphones? QC35, MDR1000X.

Reply #4
I recently used a Sony h.ear on a flight and was pretty impressed.

Andy asked for a headphone solution to a noisy work environment.
Andy asked for a recommendation on a noise cancelling headphone.

I gave him one.
Actually, you didn't.

Re: Anyone tried the newer noise cancelling headphones? QC35, MDR1000X.

Reply #5
Maybe you're looking for a solution to a problem dat can be fixed otherwise. I don't know where you're from, but here in the netherlands there are quite a lot of rules that a employer must comply to. Putting racks with hardware and switches is, as far as I know not allowed if it exceeds a certain amount of decibels. Special measures must be taken to reduce the noise, like creating a wall around the rack to reduce or eliminate the noise.

At the company where I work there is absolutely no hardware at the office that makes a noise. Even the printer is a fanless HP Color Flow E58650 at the IT dept.. The MER room (Server Room) is equipped with Rittal cooled racks, so there is only noise when you open the doors, but you could even work in the server room all day without getting deaf.

Maybe that is the other extreme, but I really love it. You should talk to your employer instead of fixing a problem that isn't your problem. PS. constant noise is really bad for your hearing and you cannot continuously work with NC headphones on your head the entire day.

Re: Anyone tried the newer noise cancelling headphones? QC35, MDR1000X.

Reply #6
I agree.  You may need to talk to your employer's HR people.

There are also ear plugs out there that are designed for reducing or eliminating high decibels or ambient noises.  They make them for musicians, for shooting guns, etc.

https://www.amazon.com/Decibullz-Earplugs-Comfortable-Protection-Shooting/dp/B01N129AQ8/ref=sr_1_5_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1491413082&sr=8-5&keywords=shooting+ear+plugs
JXL

Re: Anyone tried the newer noise cancelling headphones? QC35, MDR1000X.

Reply #7
I agree.  You may need to talk to your employer's HR people.
Agreed, depending on the employer - especially these days complaints, however justified, can be risky to one's continued employment.
Quote
There are also ear plugs out there that are designed for reducing or eliminating high decibels or ambient noises.  They make them for musicians, for shooting guns, etc.
Sound cancelling headphones, per se, work less well as the frequency rises because it's harder to keep the headphone diaphragm (which has mass) to move in anti-phase as the required response time gets shorter.  You can buy headphones designed for aircraft pilots that do a good job at the higher frequencies but they do that by adding mass and pressure and don't need to have anything like a "hifi" frequency response since aircraft traffic is just voice and it can be handled with three or four kilohertz of bandwidth.

You can get anti noise ear covers from most hardware stores for around thirty bucks (or you could last time I checked).  They look just like big headphones but without the music.  I bought a pair once and these really cut down noise at all frequencies, at the expense of being quite uncomfortable to wear due to the pressure they exert on one's head.  If you can stand them you can still listen to music via some i.e.m.'s.

Actually I believe BOSE made their first sound cancelling headphones specifically for pilots.

Mods please feel free to bin this if I have wandered too far off topic.  Of course you don't need my approval for that, but I just want you to know I won't complain.
Ed Seedhouse
VA7SDH

Re: Anyone tried the newer noise cancelling headphones? QC35, MDR1000X.

Reply #8
I have the BOSE QC25, and I think they do a great job at cancelling noises such as fans, engine running, etc, but not for sudden sounds like a hand clap or the like.

I like the way they sounds with ANC on, but not so much with it off, but that's me.

They're also pretty comfortable, and some say they sound like the BOSE SoundTrue 2, although I can't say as I've never heard them. One issue with BOSE is the price, but I think they nailed it on ANC.


Re: Anyone tried the newer noise cancelling headphones? QC35, MDR1000X.

Reply #10
Thanks everyone.

I forgot to mention that I already have in-ear noise isolating Shure SE420s, and they block the higher-freqs, but not so much the mid-lower ones. If I use them underneath the QC25's my noise problem is solved, but then I have a comfort one (I don't enjoy having things stuck in my ear canals for too long, plus I need to take off the headphones/earphones frequently).

Regarding the efficacy of active noise cancelling, the QC25's do a pretty great job on an airplane, but small computer fans are higher-freq.

As for the noise level and office rules, I don't think they're really that loud that they would cause damage, I believe it's 4 standard 120mm computer fans (or maybe even 90mm, not 100% sure), running loud enough to be annoying. Plus there's some fan whine from the internet switches/firewall, which are very small fans.

The MDR100X recently got a $50 discount at Amazon and B&H, my go-to stores, so it's looking pretty tempting.

Also, thanks Moni for the links.

Re: Anyone tried the newer noise cancelling headphones? QC35, MDR1000X.

Reply #11
Regarding the efficacy of active noise cancelling, the QC25's do a pretty great job on an airplane, but small computer fans are higher-freq.

For my own use that's a feature, not a bug.  If I go for a walk I often put the earphones on with the ANC activated, nothing attached to the headphones.  They cancel out the roar of traffic nicely but I can still hear voices quite well.  At my age (73) that's a bonus.

In coffee houses I often find that putting the headphones on with the noise cancelling activated makes voices distinctly more intelligible.

The sound may not be the ultimate in high fidelity but when I listen to music with my android tablet I put in a boost of 10 db at 32 hz and that makes the sound very satisfying.  Not the ultimate but for me, with my ears, plenty good enough.  Violins sound like violins, oboes can be distinguished from English horns, and so on.  Mind you with my old ears the high frequencies don't matter as much as they used to, those with younger ears might not like them, but I have no way of telling.

I hear the QC35's are even better, but my pension isn't indexed and right now they are unaffordable.

Ed Seedhouse
VA7SDH

Re: Anyone tried the newer noise cancelling headphones? QC35, MDR1000X.

Reply #12
Yeah, I have no problem whatsoever with the sound of the QC25's, but as someone else mentioned above, when they're on. When the NC is off, they sound very different, muted almost. When they're on I can't really notice any obvious difference between them and my ATH-M50's.

Re: Anyone tried the newer noise cancelling headphones? QC35, MDR1000X.

Reply #13
Sound cancelling headphones, per se, work less well as the frequency rises because it's harder to keep the headphone diaphragm (which has mass) to move in anti-phase as the required response time gets shorter.  You can buy headphones designed for aircraft pilots that do a good job at the higher frequencies but they do that by adding mass and pressure and don't need to have anything like a "hifi" frequency response since aircraft traffic is just voice and it can be handled with three or four kilohertz of bandwidth.


Mass of the diaphragm has nothing to do with it.  The challenge of ANC at higher frequencies is due to the physical distance between the electronics and the eardrum being too large, given the wavelength distance of higher frequencies.

Layman source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noise-cancelling_headphones#Theory

More detailed explanation: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/260014066_Adaptive_signal_processing_algorithms_for_creating_spatial_zones_of_quiet (See Sec 1 and references therein)

Re: Anyone tried the newer noise cancelling headphones? QC35, MDR1000X.

Reply #14
Mass of the diaphragm has nothing to do with it.  The challenge of ANC at higher frequencies is due to the physical distance between the electronics and the eardrum being too large, given the wavelength distance of higher frequencies.

Thanks for the correction.
Ed Seedhouse
VA7SDH

Re: Anyone tried the newer noise cancelling headphones? QC35, MDR1000X.

Reply #15
I also read some about that, which leads me to wonder if the earbud versions are any better at cancelling sound. The thing is that all the reviews I've found say that the earbud versions are not better.

Re: Anyone tried the newer noise cancelling headphones? QC35, MDR1000X.

Reply #16
I have tried several noise cancelling headphones and these ones, for me, have the best noise cancellation, even at high frequencies:
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/travelers-sanctuary-bose-quiet-comfort-20-noise-canceling-earphone

On Vancouver's SkyTrain, which has the high pitch shriek of metal on metal, does quite a good job of reducing that noise. I was a bit concerned as I don't like earbuds in general, but these are very comfortable and I can wear them for hours with no fatigue. I try and look past the price as a bit outrageous, but given how much I travel, they have reduced my noise fatigue greatly.

If there is a Bose store somewhere near your location, you can try them out and compare to the other Bose models. It was an easy decision for me.

Re: Anyone tried the newer noise cancelling headphones? QC35, MDR1000X.

Reply #17
On Vancouver's SkyTrain, which has the high pitch shriek of metal on metal, does quite a good job of reducing that noise. I was a bit concerned as I don't like earbuds in general, but these are very comfortable and I can wear them for hours with no fatigue. I try and look past the price as a bit outrageous, but given how much I travel, they have reduced my noise fatigue greatly.

As a fellow frequent traveler, I have learned that a few "outrageously" priced pieces of gear are easy to justify.

You mention high-pitch cancellation with  the Bose QC20.  Many consumer-level active noise cancelling (ANC) gear don't bother with the upper frequencies (see my previous links), using passive noise cancelling instead. 

Could you do some experiments with a sine wave generator, e.g. http://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/, to see how Bose implements ANC on the QC20?  For example, playing an 8 kHz tone, do the QC20s reduce the sound any more than simply plugging your ears (with your finger, or with a regular foam earplug)?


Re: Anyone tried the newer noise cancelling headphones? QC35, MDR1000X.

Reply #19
That's interesting, and I did look at those before getting the QC25s, but decided that the non-replaceable battery is a dealbreaker. There are several questions about this online, and apparently Bose doesn't have a replacement battery program like Apple for their devices. I have read Sony does for this headphone, but nothing too official.

I am somewhat disturbed by this trend of including non-replaceable batteries in accessories that don't inherently need them. Phones and tablets at least age technologically, so eventually you'll replace them, but headphones and keyboards and mice, etc. can last for many years and the batteries dying seems like such a scam. I can see the reason in portable speakers that need high energy density in order to get decent battery life or volume, but my QC25's do just fine with only one AAA.

Re: Anyone tried the newer noise cancelling headphones? QC35, MDR1000X.

Reply #20
Please see: http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/BoseQuietComfort20.pdf Note the Isolation chart on the right... and the broadband attenuation spec at the bottom.

OK, but that doesn't answer the question definitively.  Claiming broadband isolation of 26 dB for a large frequency range, when the "isolation" graph varies from 20-30 dB...  Perhaps there are some notes that provide details on what these graphs mean.  To me, it doesn't clearly show whether ANC is operating at higher frequencies.  My proposed test might shed some information.

(unless mitchco is the writer of those blogs he posted...)

Re: Anyone tried the newer noise cancelling headphones? QC35, MDR1000X.

Reply #21
More broadly, is anyone aware of any consumer product that claims to do ANC for higher frequencies (e.g. higher than 4kHz)?  If not, it would bolster my original response that passive noise reduction is probably more effective (or, more precisely, no less ineffective) than consumer ANC headphones for higher-pitched issues described by the OP.

Re: Anyone tried the newer noise cancelling headphones? QC35, MDR1000X.

Reply #22
More broadly, is anyone aware of any consumer product that claims to do ANC for higher frequencies (e.g. higher than 4kHz)?  If not, it would bolster my original response that passive noise reduction is probably more effective (or, more precisely, no less ineffective) than consumer ANC headphones for higher-pitched issues described by the OP.

Claims are not the same as actual performance.  I don't expect anyone to be able to extend pure anti-phase noise cancellation to very high frequencies since this can theoretically only be done with the microphone and the speaker at the same exact location in space assuming diaphragms in both having no mass.   Neither condition seems practical.   This can be offset by adding mass and attenuation to the headphone shell at the expense of making the headphones bigger and less comfortable.  As always, it's a matter of trade-offs.
Ed Seedhouse
VA7SDH

Re: Anyone tried the newer noise cancelling headphones? QC35, MDR1000X.

Reply #23
More broadly, is anyone aware of any consumer product that claims to do ANC for higher frequencies (e.g. higher than 4kHz)?  If not, it would bolster my original response that passive noise reduction is probably more effective (or, more precisely, no less ineffective) than consumer ANC headphones for higher-pitched issues described by the OP.

Claims are not the same as actual performance.  I don't expect anyone to be able to extend pure anti-phase noise cancellation to very high frequencies since this can theoretically only be done with the microphone and the speaker at the same exact location in space assuming diaphragms in both having no mass.   Neither condition seems practical.   This can be offset by adding mass and attenuation to the headphone shell at the expense of making the headphones bigger and less comfortable.  As always, it's a matter of trade-offs.

So, we will put Ed into the "no" column, although, again, mass has nothing to do with this limitation.

Re: Anyone tried the newer noise cancelling headphones? QC35, MDR1000X.

Reply #24
So, we will put Ed into the "no" column, although, again, mass has nothing to do with this limitation.

I will agree that it probably has very little to do with it, but it must at least theoretically have some effect, possibly at such high frequencies as to make no difference.  Anything with mass cannot be accelerated instantly.  It will take some (very slight) for the microphone diaphragm  to accelerate, some time to process the resulting signal (much less time, though), and some (slight) time to accelerate the speaker diaphragm.

I don't do math well enough to calculate what effect this will have, though intuitively it seems likely to be very small.
Ed Seedhouse
VA7SDH