HydrogenAudio

Hydrogenaudio Forum => Validated News => Topic started by: jcoalson on 2006-10-10 17:18:18

Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: jcoalson on 2006-10-10 17:18:18
The first (and hopefully only) beta for FLAC 1.1.3 is ready.  Usually I don't do betas but there are a lot of new things.  See the changelog (http://flac.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/flac/flac/doc/html/changelog.html).

One thing that I'm pretty sure will come up is how flac handles legacy WAVEFORMATEX files with odd bit depths (WAVEFORMATEXTENSIBLE should work fine) and multi-channel files.  if you have WAVE or AIFF files that flac refuses, let me know here so I can zero in on how to handle the wierd ones.  Any other feedback is also welcome.

You can get the source tarball, or binaries for windows:
http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/flac/fl...tar.gz?download (http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/flac/flac-1.1.3-beta1.tar.gz?download)
http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/flac/fl...in.zip?download (http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/flac/flac-1.1.3-beta1-win.zip?download)
http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/flac/fl...in.zip?download (http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/flac/flac-1.1.3-beta1-devel-win.zip?download)
(or)
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=13478 (http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=13478)

MD5's:
Code: [Select]
2f305538a17e35d8153a34423c508dbf  flac-1.1.3-beta1-devel-win.zip
6d43afc5a44015d8fa13fcd6767b1e25  flac-1.1.3-beta1-win.zip
c97c0d35c6193952c2e516f062d3e15d  flac-1.1.3-beta1.tar.gz
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: Axon on 2006-10-10 18:07:10
Dayumn. We like, couldn't call this 1.2 or 2.0, could we?
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: jcoalson on 2006-10-10 18:15:22

http://flac.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*...ease_versioning (http://flac.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/flac/flac/doc/html/faq.html#api__release_versioning)
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: Egor on 2006-10-10 18:47:24
Great work, very cool!

Quote
WAVEFORMATEXTENSIBLE channel mask is also saved to a tag on encoding and restored on decoding for situations when there is no natural mapping to FLAC channel assignments.

What is the tag name/format? (I couldn't find it in the new documentation.)

Quote
The encoder chooses suitable defaults in the absence of any -A options; any -A option specified replaces the default(s).

How does it choose? Is it always tukey(0.5)?
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: Synthetic Soul on 2006-10-10 19:08:57
Have you given up on the idea of -9 Josh?

(NB: I can compile this one )
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: haregoo on 2006-10-10 19:23:36
1.1.3b1 consumes more bits especially on short sample(less than 30sec) than 1.1.2. I always use default setting(-5).
Is this because of redundant data for recovery?
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: jcoalson on 2006-10-10 19:41:44
Quote
WAVEFORMATEXTENSIBLE channel mask is also saved to a tag on encoding and restored on decoding for situations when there is no natural mapping to FLAC channel assignments.

What is the tag name/format? (I couldn't find it in the new documentation.)

WAVEFORMATEXTENSIBLE_CHANNEL_MASK

Quote
The encoder chooses suitable defaults in the absence of any -A options; any -A option specified replaces the default(s).

How does it choose? Is it always tukey(0.5)?

right now, yes  but it may get smarter.

Have you given up on the idea of -9 Josh?

no, just saving it for something good (which I haven't come up with yet)

1.1.3b1 consumes more bits especially on short sample(less than 30sec) than 1.1.2. I always use default setting(-5).
Is this because of redundant data for recovery?

no, there's no redundant data, the only thing that should cause that is the new default padding size of 8k (was 4k in 1.1.2).  is the difference more than that?  you can always change the amount of padding with -P

Josh


P.S. the other thing that I would like to know is how good the --picture option is at automatically extracting the correct resolution/color info from gif/jpg/png files.  if it chokes or gets it wrong, send me the file and I'll try to improve the detection code.

Josh
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: haregoo on 2006-10-10 19:48:47
1.1.3b1 consumes more bits especially on short sample(less than 30sec) than 1.1.2. I always use default setting(-5).
Is this because of redundant data for recovery?

no, there's no redundant data, the only thing that should cause that is the new default padding size of 8k (was 4k in 1.1.2).  is the difference more than that?  you can always change the amount of padding with -P

"-P 4096" solves this and clear my doubts. Thanks.

Edit: This problem occurs only when I use flac.exe with foobar2000 0.9 pipe encoding.
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: .halverhahn on 2006-10-10 20:18:53
Just a cosmetic difference: Encoding with option -V, Flac 1.1.2 outputs "Verify OK"  V1.1.3b1 don't.
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: madoka@ex-sounds on 2006-10-10 21:35:50
Just one sample (CHOIR OF ALL SAINTS, HONIRA - Jisas yu holem hand blong mi / a cappella) is tested -8:

reference libFLAC 1.1.3-beta1 20061010 -> 8,983,544 Bytes (8.57 MB)
reference libFLAC CVS 20060425 -> 8,961,400 Bytes (8.55 MB)

1.1.2CVS is win 

more testing now...
above and beyond this, great work!!! thx Josh

Edit: dranken TYPO
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: Egor on 2006-10-10 22:04:25
reference libFLAC 1.1.3-beta1 20061010 -> 8,983,544 Bytes (8.57 MB)
reference libFLAC CVS 20060425 -> 8,961,400 Bytes (8.55 MB)

1.1.2CVS is win

(new!  ) 1.1.3 uses 64k padding for audio longer than 20 min , and 8k padding for shorter samples, this may be the reason. Try removing all tags and metadata and then see the filesize difference...
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: skelly831 on 2006-10-10 22:41:43
wooyay! thanks Josh!
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: Wombat on 2006-10-10 23:44:03
Nice news

--best plays fine on my Squeezebox. Size is nearly the same as Garfs 1.1.2.1 build but somewhat bigger than flake -11
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: TBeck on 2006-10-11 03:22:35
I don't know, if this is the right place to post some compression results...

Participiants:

FLAC  1.1.2
FLAC  1.1.3  file flac-1.1.3-beta1-win.zip from sourceforge.
Flake 0.10    file flake-0.10-win32-i686.zip from sourceforge.

I have set the padding size for FLAC 1.1.3 to 4096 (-P 4096) to avoid an artifical compression penality compared to 1.1.2.

Test system:

P3-800 with a (slow) 40 GB HD.

Code: [Select]
            FLAC    FLAC  |  Flake |
            1.1.2   1.1.3 |  0.10  |
            -8      -8    |  -8    |
--------------------------+--------+
rw                        |        |
Ratio:      59.54   59.05 |  59.06 |
EncoTime:  280.47  285.75 | 133.57 |
--------------------------+--------+
songs                     |        |
Ratio:      51.35   50.61 |  50.27 |
EncoTime:  185.51  188.79 |  86.14 |
--------------------------+--------+
sh_2444                   |        |
Ratio:      60.28   59.59 |        |
EncoTime:   96.54   95.70 |        |
--------------------------+--------+
sh_2496                   |        |
Ratio:      57.92   56.21 |        |
EncoTime:  184.58  170.96 |        |
--------------------------+--------+

Ratio is the compression ratio in percent, EncoTime the duration of encoding in seconds.

For the test sets:

"rw" contains 46 files from http://www.rarewares.org/test_samples/ (http://www.rarewares.org/test_samples/).
"songs" contains CD-Ripps of the beginning of some songs.
"sh_2444" contains 5 files with 24 bit and 44 or 48 Khz.
"sh_2496" contains 6 files with 24 bit and 96 Khz.

Some remarks

Nice improvements for the first two sets. Contrary to my expectation, even "songs" (a set with slowly changing signal characteristics) benefited significantly from the optimizations of the compression efficiency.

And big surprise: Considerable improvements even for high resolution audio, especially for 24 bit / 96 KHz!

Congratualations!
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: jcoalson on 2006-10-11 07:35:33
Just a cosmetic difference: Encoding with option -V, Flac 1.1.2 outputs "Verify OK"  V1.1.3b1 don't.

thanks, fixed in CVS.

Some remarks

Nice improvements for the first two sets. Contrary to my expectation, even "songs" (a set with slowly changing signal characteristics) benefited significantly from the optimizations of the compression efficiency.

And big surprise: Considerable improvements even for high resolution audio, especially for 24 bit / 96 KHz!

that is a nice surprise.  thanks for the info, I don't have much 24bit material to test with.  also, as you have already found, there are simple improvements to FLAC that can increase the compression further for hi-res samples but I didn't want to delay the release any further for them.

Josh
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: spies on 2006-10-11 07:48:31
I am having trouble creating binaries of FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 on Mac OS X.
I am running a 500 MHz G4 with system 10.4.8 and xcode tools 2.4.
Running ./configure on the FAC 1.1.3 beta1 directory, the terminal
spits this out after a while
Code: [Select]
checking for gas... no
/usr/libexec/gcc/darwin/ppc/as: I don't understand '-' flag!
Apple Computer, Inc. version cctools-622.3.obj~2, GNU assembler version 1.38
and then freezes. Works fine on the FLAC 1.1.2 directory.
Any suggestions would be appreciated. I would really like to try 1.1.3 beta1.
Keep in mind that I am fairly inexperienced when it comes to compiling.
Of course a location where I can get Mac OS X binaries would be great too!
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: jcoalson on 2006-10-11 08:10:06
yeah, I have not tried building it on my ibook yet so the tests for the assembler must not be up to date.

I think you can get past this problem by deleting line 22818 in configure:

Code: [Select]
test "$AS" = "as" && as --version | grep GNU >/dev/null && AS=gas
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: ffooky on 2006-10-11 10:30:02
yeah, I have not tried building it on my ibook yet so the tests for the assembler must not be up to date.

I think you can get past this problem by deleting line 22818 in configure:

Code: [Select]
test "$AS" = "as" && as --version | grep GNU >/dev/null && AS=gas


Doesn't do the trick (on my Intel iMac at least).
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: sshd on 2006-10-11 11:05:42
I get the following warning message on a 192/24/2 wave file created with wvunpack 4.2. Might not be a problem with flac, but thought I should mention it anyway.

options: --lax -P 8192 -b 4608 -m -l 8 -q 0 -r 3,3
02 The Carter Family.wav: WARNING: legacy WAVE file has format type 1 but bits-per-sample=24
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: Egor on 2006-10-11 11:30:25
I get the following warning message on a 192/24/2 wave file created with wvunpack 4.2. Might not be a problem with flac, but thought I should mention it anyway.

options: --lax -P 8192 -b 4608 -m -l 8 -q 0 -r 3,3
02 The Carter Family.wav: WARNING: legacy WAVE file has format type 1 but bits-per-sample=24

This is because your 24-bit audio is in WAVEFORMATEX (http://windowssdk.msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms713497.aspx) instead of WAVEFORMATEXTENSIBLE (http://windowssdk.msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms713496.aspx).

WAVEFORMATEX does only support 8 and 16 bit resolutions, while some applications (like foobar2000) do use non-standard values.

See also [a href='index.php?showtopic=49191']WAVEFORMATEXTENSIBLE, output wav files[/a] topic.
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: probedb on 2006-10-11 12:42:56
Does this include the Winamp plugin, and has this been updated to use the Media Library yet or do I still need to install the patched 1.12 I have?

Excellent work btw
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: jaybeee on 2006-10-11 13:17:02
Quote
flac now supports FLAC as input to the encoder (i.e. can re-encode FLAC to FLAC) and preserve all the metadata like tags, etc.
^^ Excellent stuff Josh.

And of course the rest of it.
FLAC has always been my lossless format of choice. Glad to see there's still enhancements being made.
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: spoon on 2006-10-11 13:49:45
>WAVEFORMATEX does only support 8 and 16 bit resolutions, while some applications (like foobar2000) do use non-standard values.

Not technically true, Microsoft says an extensible should be used, not that is must be used. Programs were creating 24 bit wave files long before extensible was invented.
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: aharden on 2006-10-11 13:57:24
I have some 24/96/6ch music content that I had compressed with FLAC 1.1.2 level 8.  Recompressing a 2 minute, 44 second track with 1.1.3b1 level 8, I got the following results:

PCM:
Bit Rate: 13824 kbps
File Size: 283 392 044 bytes

FLAC 1.1.2:
Bit Rate: 8938 kbps
File Size: 183 225 838 bytes
Comp %: 64.7

FLAC 1.1.3b1:
Bit Rate: 8545 kbps
File Size: 175 164 660 bytes
Comp %: 61.8

FLAC 1.1.3b1 improved compression by almost 3% on this material.

Thanks for the update, Josh!
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: Speek on 2006-10-11 15:06:50
After installing FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 on Slackware (gcc 3.4.6) I tried recompiling vorbis-tools 1.1.1, but I get this error:
Code: [Select]
easyflac.o(.text+0x547): In function `EasyFLAC__init':
: undefined reference to `OggFLAC__stream_decoder_init'
easyflac.o(.text+0x1e1): In function `EasyFLAC__set_read_callback':
: undefined reference to `OggFLAC__stream_decoder_set_read_callback'
easyflac.o(.text+0x1f4): In function `EasyFLAC__set_read_callback':
: undefined reference to `FLAC__stream_decoder_set_read_callback'
easyflac.o(.text+0x221): In function `EasyFLAC__set_write_callback':
: undefined reference to `OggFLAC__stream_decoder_set_write_callback'
easyflac.o(.text+0x234): In function `EasyFLAC__set_write_callback':
: undefined reference to `FLAC__stream_decoder_set_write_callback'
easyflac.o(.text+0x261): In function `EasyFLAC__set_metadata_callback':
: undefined reference to `OggFLAC__stream_decoder_set_metadata_callback'
easyflac.o(.text+0x274): In function `EasyFLAC__set_metadata_callback':
: undefined reference to `FLAC__stream_decoder_set_metadata_callback'
easyflac.o(.text+0x2a1): In function `EasyFLAC__set_error_callback':
: undefined reference to `OggFLAC__stream_decoder_set_error_callback'
easyflac.o(.text+0x2b4): In function `EasyFLAC__set_error_callback':
: undefined reference to `FLAC__stream_decoder_set_error_callback'
easyflac.o(.text+0x2dd): In function `EasyFLAC__set_client_data':
: undefined reference to `OggFLAC__stream_decoder_set_client_data'
easyflac.o(.text+0x2ec): In function `EasyFLAC__set_client_data':
: undefined reference to `FLAC__stream_decoder_set_client_data'
easyflac.o(.text+0x56a): In function `EasyFLAC__init':
: undefined reference to `FLAC__stream_decoder_init'
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
make[2]: *** [ogg123] Error 1
make[2]: Leaving directory `/tmp/vorbis-tools-1.1.1/ogg123'
make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory `/tmp/vorbis-tools-1.1.1'
make: *** [all] Error 2

Any idea what this is about?

Also when compiling mpd (music player daemon) I get an error:
Code: [Select]
In file included from inputPlugins/_flac_common.c:26:
inputPlugins/_flac_common.h:33:42: FLAC/seekable_stream_decoder.h: No such file or directory
In file included from inputPlugins/_flac_common.c:26:
inputPlugins/_flac_common.h:57: error: syntax error before "FLAC__StreamDecoderErrorStatus"
inputPlugins/_flac_common.c:190: warning: type defaults to `int' in declaration of `FLAC__StreamDecoderErrorStatus'
inputPlugins/_flac_common.c:190: error: syntax error before "status"
inputPlugins/_flac_common.c:192: warning: no previous prototype for 'flac_error_common_cb'
inputPlugins/_flac_common.c: In function `flac_error_common_cb':
inputPlugins/_flac_common.c:193: error: `data' undeclared (first use in this function)
inputPlugins/_flac_common.c:193: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
inputPlugins/_flac_common.c:193: error: for each function it appears in.)
inputPlugins/_flac_common.c:196: error: `status' undeclared (first use in this function)
inputPlugins/_flac_common.c:197: error: `FLAC__STREAM_DECODER_ERROR_STATUS_LOST_SYNC' undeclared (first use in this function)
inputPlugins/_flac_common.c:198: error: `plugin' undeclared (first use in this function)
inputPlugins/_flac_common.c:200: error: `FLAC__STREAM_DECODER_ERROR_STATUS_BAD_HEADER' undeclared (first use in this function)
inputPlugins/_flac_common.c:203: error: `FLAC__STREAM_DECODER_ERROR_STATUS_FRAME_CRC_MISMATCH' undeclared (first use in this function)
make[3]: *** [mpd-_flac_common.o] Error 1
make[3]: Leaving directory `/tmp/mpd-0.12.1/src'
make[2]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
make[2]: Leaving directory `/tmp/mpd-0.12.1/src'
make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory `/tmp/mpd-0.12.1'
make: *** [all] Error 2

Looks like a headerfile is missing?
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: spies on 2006-10-11 15:32:04
yeah, I have not tried building it on my ibook yet so the tests for the assembler must not be up to date.

I think you can get past this problem by deleting line 22818 in configure:

Code: [Select]
test "$AS" = "as" && as --version | grep GNU >/dev/null && AS=gas

That change did allow ./configure to finish however make now ends with errors:
Code: [Select]
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
make[3]: *** [flac] Error 1
make[2]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
make: *** [all] Error 2
I am quickly getting in over my head!
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: pepoluan on 2006-10-11 15:41:19
Josh,

What about licensing issues that prevents FLAC from being packaged with WinAmp?
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: jcoalson on 2006-10-11 16:11:34
I get the following warning message on a 192/24/2 wave file created with wvunpack 4.2. Might not be a problem with flac, but thought I should mention it anyway.

options: --lax -P 8192 -b 4608 -m -l 8 -q 0 -r 3,3
02 The Carter Family.wav: WARNING: legacy WAVE file has format type 1 but bits-per-sample=24

I might remove this warning since I think for 24bps all programs write samples the same way.

After installing FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 on Slackware (gcc 3.4.6) I tried recompiling vorbis-tools 1.1.1, but I get this error:
...

yeah, sorry about that, this is due to the api change which collapses the three decoding layers into one.  this will remove the need for easyflac.c in vorbis-tools.

I will be going around to the major opensource projects and submitting patches for the latest version while the beta goes on.

yeah, I have not tried building it on my ibook yet so the tests for the assembler must not be up to date.

I think you can get past this problem by deleting line 22818 in configure:

Code: [Select]
test "$AS" = "as" && as --version | grep GNU >/dev/null && AS=gas

Doesn't do the trick (on my Intel iMac at least).

bummer, I'll need the output from make where it broke.

yeah, I have not tried building it on my ibook yet so the tests for the assembler must not be up to date.

I think you can get past this problem by deleting line 22818 in configure:

Code: [Select]
test "$AS" = "as" && as --version | grep GNU >/dev/null && AS=gas

That change did allow ./configure to finish however make now ends with errors:
Code: [Select]
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
make[3]: *** [flac] Error 1
make[2]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
make: *** [all] Error 2
I am quickly getting in over my head!

ok, can you post most more of the output, back up to the first error?

Josh,

What about licensing issues that prevents FLAC from being packaged with WinAmp?

Does this include the Winamp plugin, and has this been updated to use the Media Library yet or do I still need to install the patched 1.12 I have?


the necessary code was relicensed to LGPL but there was not enough time to get it into the latest winamp release.  the reference plugin does not have ML support but the one coming from winamp will and has all of the features of the reference plugin, so I'm still deciding how much effort to put into maintaining it.

Josh
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: ffooky on 2006-10-11 16:30:31
yeah, I have not tried building it on my ibook yet so the tests for the assembler must not be up to date.

I think you can get past this problem by deleting line 22818 in configure:

Code: [Select]
test "$AS" = "as" && as --version | grep GNU >/dev/null && AS=gas

Doesn't do the trick (on my Intel iMac at least).

bummer, I'll need the output from make where it broke.


sorry, I didn't delete the line properly but now I too get an error at the make stage:
Code: [Select]
/usr/bin/libtool: file: .libs/libFLAC.lax/libFLAC-asm.a/cpu_asm.o is not an object file (not allowed in a library)
/usr/bin/libtool: file: .libs/libFLAC.lax/libFLAC-asm.a/fixed_asm.o is not an object file (not allowed in a library)
/usr/bin/libtool: file: .libs/libFLAC.lax/libFLAC-asm.a/lpc_asm.o is not an object file (not allowed in a library)
make[4]: *** [libFLAC.la] Error 1
make[3]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
make[2]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
make: *** [all] Error 2


Edit:I had a space in the directory name the first time around
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: pepoluan on 2006-10-11 16:40:09
Josh,

What about licensing issues that prevents FLAC from being packaged with WinAmp?
Does this include the Winamp plugin, and has this been updated to use the Media Library yet or do I still need to install the patched 1.12 I have?
the necessary code was relicensed to LGPL but there was not enough time to get it into the latest winamp release.  the reference plugin does not have ML support but the one coming from winamp will and has all of the features of the reference plugin, so I'm still deciding how much effort to put into maintaining it.
Well, since it's been relicensed to LGPL, I think you can kind of 'delegate' maintenance to the Winamp guys. I mean, it's the GPL license that has been binding their hands.
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: spies on 2006-10-11 17:32:32
ok, can you post most more of the output, back up to the first error?
Sure, I uploaded the output as a text file in a zip document on my web site.
You can get it here (http://home.comcast.net/~misterspies/flacout.zip). Now where is krmathis when you need him? 
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: jcoalson on 2006-10-11 18:00:46
@ffooky: looks like you will have to pass --disable-asm-optimizations to configure until I get it sorted out, sorry.

@spies: oops, to fix:
1. change line 47 of flac-1.1.3-beta1/include/share/replaygain_analysis.h to
Code: [Select]
extern Float_t ReplayGainReferenceLoudness; /* in dB SPL, currently == 89.0 */


2. change line 103 of flac-1.1.3-beta1/src/share/replaygain_analysis/replaygain_analysis.c to
Code: [Select]
Float_t ReplayGainReferenceLoudness = 89.0; /* in dB SPL */


Josh
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: ffooky on 2006-10-11 18:18:44
Thanks Josh, got it rolling now.
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: iGold on 2006-10-11 18:24:58
Nice version, good compression bonus and pictures support. Thank you!

Any plans about x86_64 assembler optimization?
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: spies on 2006-10-11 18:26:18
@spies: oops, to fix:
1. change line 47 of flac-1.1.3-beta1/include/share/replaygain_analysis.h to
Code: [Select]
extern Float_t ReplayGainReferenceLoudness; /* in dB SPL, currently == 89.0 */


2. change line 103 of flac-1.1.3-beta1/src/share/replaygain_analysis/replaygain_analysis.c to
Code: [Select]
Float_t ReplayGainReferenceLoudness = 89.0; /* in dB SPL */


Josh

Thanks Josh that did it, now on to testing!
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: Synthetic Soul on 2006-10-11 19:33:15
Some results for my TAK corpus:

Code: [Select]
   |  1.1.2                   |   1.1.3b1
   |  Enc     Dec       Comp  |   Enc    Dec       Comp
===+==========================+========================
-0 |  94x    106x    70.734%  |  91x    104x    70.744%
-5 |  42x     97x    66.279%  |  39x     93x    65.926%
-8 |  10x     95x    66.028%  |   9x     93x    65.621%
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: CyberFoxx on 2006-10-11 21:11:41
Heh, from the results that other people have been getting, can't wait till this goes final and is in Gentoo's Portage tree.
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: spies on 2006-10-12 00:13:06
FLAC as an input to FLAC works great! Makes it so easy to convert FLACs to --best.
I am also excited about --picture however I cannot seem to get it to work right.
Can someone post an exact example of their command line that works with --picture?
I tried to follow the example given in metaflac but I was not able to figure it out.
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: Wombat on 2006-10-12 01:02:33
I like the new version also but i wonder about the maximum compression.
Josh you talked about 0.1% less compression using -l12 to -l32 in the flake thread. Now flake -12 seems to give clearly better compression than these 0.01% against flac --best. Is there more to expect in the final 1.1.3?
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: jcoalson on 2006-10-12 02:13:13
FLAC as an input to FLAC works great! Makes it so easy to convert FLACs to --best.
I am also excited about --picture however I cannot seem to get it to work right.
Can someone post an exact example of their command line that works with --picture?
I tried to follow the example given in metaflac but I was not able to figure it out.

what exact command line did you use?

I like the new version also but i wonder about the maximum compression.
Josh you talked about 0.1% less compression using -l12 to -l32 in the flake thread. Now flake -12 seems to give clearly better compression than these 0.01% against flac --best. Is there more to expect in the final 1.1.3?

I haven't compared against flake, just "flac -8" against "flac -8 -l 32" and the difference is usually for me < 0.1% (not 0.01%) and I haven't seen any comparisons against flake -12, but what is relevant in the context of limiting the predictor order to 12 (in the subset discussion) is to compare similar flake options differing only in 12-vs-32 order.  the rest of the difference between flac and flake (padding excluded) would then be attributable to some advantage(s) in flake.

the compression won't improve for final 1.1.3 but I have a several leads for the next release.

Josh
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: drbeachboy on 2006-10-12 02:40:51
FLAC as an input to FLAC works great! Makes it so easy to convert FLACs to --best.
I am also excited about --picture however I cannot seem to get it to work right.
Can someone post an exact example of their command line that works with --picture?
I tried to follow the example given in metaflac but I was not able to figure it out.

Hi,

This is for metaflac, but if you change --import-picture to --picture this should work fine.
--import-picture "3|image/jpeg|||Your directory\filename.jpg" "filename.flac"

Be sure to use the quotes & piping like so, because it won't work without them. At least it didn't for me.
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: Wombat on 2006-10-12 02:48:12
I haven't compared against flake, just "flac -8" against "flac -8 -l 32" and the difference is usually for me < 0.1% (not 0.01%) and I haven't seen any comparisons against flake -12, but what is relevant in the context of limiting the predictor order to 12 (in the subset discussion) is to compare similar flake options differing only in 12-vs-32 order.  the rest of the difference between flac and flake (padding excluded) would then be attributable to some advantage(s) in flake.

the compression won't improve for final 1.1.3 but I have a several leads for the next release.

Josh

Thanks for the answer. I don´t consider flake as real alternative cause of the many missing options btw.
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: spies on 2006-10-12 02:58:02
Hi,

This is for metaflac, but if you change --import-picture to --picture this should work fine.
--import-picture "3|image/jpeg|||Your directory\filename.jpg" "filename.flac"

Be sure to use the quotes & piping like so, because it won't work without them. At least it didn't for me.
Thanks drbeachboy, that did it!
I swear I tried with quotes but I must have put them in the wrong place.
Now on to more testing.
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: A_Man_Eating_Duck on 2006-10-12 08:34:29
When you encode with flac using files with long names the flac display goes a little mental. Is there any chance of getting the percent and ratio counters to be put on a new line.

Code: [Select]
G:\Lossless Music\Ben Folds Five\1999 - The Unauthorized Biography Of Reinhold M
essner>flac -8 -f " Ben Folds Five - The Unauthorized Biography Of Reinhold Mess
ner.wav"

flac 1.1.3beta1, Copyright © 2000,2001,2002,2003,2004,2005,2006  Josh Coalson
flac comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY.  This is free software, and you are
welcome to redistribute it under certain conditions.  Type `flac' for details.

options: -P 8192 -b 4608 -m -l 12 -e -q 0 -r 0,6
 Ben Folds Five - The Unauthorized Biography Of Reinhold Messner.wav: 0% complet
 Ben Folds Five - The Unauthorized Biography Of Reinhold Messner.wav: 0% complet
 Ben Folds Five - The Unauthorized Biography Of Reinhold Messner.wav: 0% complet
 Ben Folds Five - The Unauthorized Biography Of Reinhold Messner.wav: 0% complet
 Ben Folds Five - The Unauthorized Biography Of Reinhold Messner.wav: 0% complet
 Ben Folds Five - The Unauthorized Biography Of Reinhold Messner.wav: 0% complet
 Ben Folds Five - The Unauthorized Biography Of Reinhold Messner.wav: 0% complet
 Ben Folds Five - The Unauthorized Biography Of Reinhold Messner.wav: 0% complet
 Ben Folds Five - The Unauthorized Biography Of Reinhold Messner.wav: 0% complet
 Ben Folds Five - The Unauthorized Biography Of Reinhold Messner.wav: 1% complet
 Ben Folds Five - The Unauthorized Biography Of Reinhold Messner.wav: 1% complet
 Ben Folds Five - The Unauthorized Biography Of Reinhold Messner.wav: 1% complet
 Ben Folds Five - The Unauthorized Biography Of Reinhold Messner.wav: 1% complet
 Ben Folds Five - The Unauthorized Biography Of Reinhold Messner.wav: 1% complet
 Ben Folds Five - The Unauthorized Biography Of Reinhold Messner.wav: 1% complet
 Ben Folds Five - The Unauthorized Biography Of Reinhold Messner.wav: 1% complet
 Ben Folds Five - The Unauthorized Biography Of Reinhold Messner.wav: 1% complet
 Ben Folds Five - The Unauthorized Biography Of Reinhold Messner.wav: 1% complet
 Ben Folds Five - The Unauthorized Biography Of Reinhold Messner.wav: 1% complet
 Ben Folds Five - The Unauthorized Biography Of Reinhold Messner.wav: 1% complet
 Ben Folds Five - The Unauthorized Biography Of Reinhold Messner.wav: 1% complet
 Ben Folds Five - The Unauthorized Biography Of Reinhold Messner.wav: 1% complet
 Ben Folds Five - The Unauthorized Biography Of Reinhold Messner.wav: 1% complet
 Ben Folds Five - The Unauthorized Biography Of Reinhold Messner.wav: 1% complet
 Ben Folds Five - The Unauthorized Biography Of Reinhold Messner.wav: 1% complet
e, ratio=0.513^C
G:\Lossless Music\Ben Folds Five\1999 - The Unauthorized Biography Of Reinhold M
essner>
So it would be
Code: [Select]
flac 1.1.3beta1, Copyright © 2000,2001,2002,2003,2004,2005,2006  Josh Coalson
flac comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY.  This is free software, and you are
welcome to redistribute it under certain conditions.  Type `flac' for details.

options: -P 8192 -b 4608 -m -l 12 -e -q 0 -r 0,6
Ben Folds Five - The Unauthorized Biography Of Reinhold Messner.wav
1% complete, ratio=0.513
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: Egor on 2006-10-12 09:01:53
When you encode with flac using files with long names the flac display goes a little mental. Is there any chance of getting the percent and ratio counters to be put on a new line.

Currently, you can avoid this issue by increasing CMD.EXE window:
Start -> Programs -> Accessoires -> Right click on Command prompt -> Properties -> Layout tab -> Increase both "Window:" size values.
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: probedb on 2006-10-12 14:40:52
the necessary code was relicensed to LGPL but there was not enough time to get it into the latest winamp release.  the reference plugin does not have ML support but the one coming from winamp will and has all of the features of the reference plugin, so I'm still deciding how much effort to put into maintaining it.


Excellent thanks for the info
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: eloj on 2006-10-13 02:30:46
More recompression results (-8, new files /w 4096 bytes more padding)

Metallica - Fight fire with fire.flac
Org: 34459099
New: 34222080
Dif:  -237019

Visa Röster - Delta.flac
Org: 18984287
New: 18787909
Dif:  -196378

Adds up.
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: Paws on 2006-10-13 18:25:54
I've tested this with flac frontend and works great... Although when i'm in command prompt and type flac, it still shows (flac - Command-line FLAC encoder/decoder version 1.1.2) But after i use frontend and it shows the latest beta version... Anyone know why?
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: gapetto on 2006-10-13 19:19:10
I've tested this with flac frontend and works great... Although when i'm in command prompt and type flac, it still shows (flac - Command-line FLAC encoder/decoder version 1.1.2) But after i use frontend and it shows the latest beta version... Anyone know why?

Did you replace the flac.exe and other files in windows/system32 directory? You have to replace those too.
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: Paws on 2006-10-13 19:30:17
nope , but i searched and there is on flac.exe in win32 folder but no other files, that i believe belong to it. So i can delete it? and paste the newset beta version in there? 
I never deleted anything out of win32folder...
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: Synthetic Soul on 2006-10-13 22:23:44
nope , but i searched and there is on flac.exe in win32 folder but no other files, that i believe belong to it. So i can delete it? and paste the newset beta version in there? 
I never deleted anything out of win32folder...
You can replace that file with 1.1.3b1, but whether you should move completely to 1.1.3 while it is in beta is another matter.

It seems to me that 1.1.3 will already be well tested by Josh, so I doubt you will have problems.
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: Paws on 2006-10-17 18:30:47
Thats all i needed to do, thanks. FLAC is awesome
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: Wombat on 2006-10-17 18:37:21
Just noticed that 1.1.3beta2 is up on sourceforge. I know nothing about changes.
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: jcoalson on 2006-10-17 19:53:38
yes, the difference is in the API, I have merged libOggFLAC into libFLAC (and libOggFLAC++ into libFLAC++) so that both native FLAC and Ogg FLAC are supported with the same API (metadata editing still only works for native FLAC though).

the command-line programs are still the same, though I guess there's a small chance I screwed up something in the Ogg handling that wasn't caught by the test suite.

Josh
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: Wombat on 2006-10-17 20:04:11
One thing i noticed. If i encode with Flac-Frontend and add Tags and RG it takes much longer now. I mean the writing of the Tags after encoding. Does this relate to a problem? i didn´t found any but it makes me wonder. This was in beta1 already.
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: iGold on 2006-10-17 20:13:39
Beta2 doesn't want to work under x86_64 linux, bug report submitted on sourceforge tracker.
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: madoka@ex-sounds on 2006-10-18 09:15:57
beta2 dosen't work ogg-FLAC 

Code: [Select]
options: --ogg -P 8192 -b 4608 -m -l 12 -e -q 0 -r 0,6 -V

ERROR initializing encoder
init_status = FLAC__STREAM_ENCODER_INIT_STATUS_UNSUPPORTED_CONTAINER

beta1 work fine.
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: jcoalson on 2006-10-18 17:42:10
One thing i noticed. If i encode with Flac-Frontend and add Tags and RG it takes much longer now. I mean the writing of the Tags after encoding. Does this relate to a problem? i didn´t found any but it makes me wonder. This was in beta1 already.

what takes longer?  and what is the time difference and how big is the WAV file?

Beta2 doesn't want to work under x86_64 linux, bug report submitted on sourceforge tracker.

ok, will take a look.

beta2 dosen't work ogg-FLAC 

Code: [Select]
options: --ogg -P 8192 -b 4608 -m -l 12 -e -q 0 -r 0,6 -V

ERROR initializing encoder
init_status = FLAC__STREAM_ENCODER_INIT_STATUS_UNSUPPORTED_CONTAINER

beta1 work fine.

ugh, the problem is that the .dsp files for libFLAC don't have /D "FLAC__HAS_OGG" in them (and some other .dsp's then need to link with libogg).  I fixed that in CVS and re-uploaded the windows binaries.

Josh
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: Wombat on 2006-10-18 18:12:44
One thing i noticed. If i encode with Flac-Frontend and add Tags and RG it takes much longer now. I mean the writing of the Tags after encoding. Does this relate to a problem? i didn´t found any but it makes me wonder. This was in beta1 already.

what takes longer?  and what is the time difference and how big is the WAV file?

with 1.1.2 i see only running all trakcs thru the window ~1 second when after encoding the tags and replaygain are written. An average album with wavs ~50-80MB. For 1.1.3 it is ~1 whole second per song.
Nothing to worry indeed but a difference i thought should be reported. Maybe Tag.exe needs longer?
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: madoka@ex-sounds on 2006-10-18 18:40:17
beta2 dosen't work ogg-FLAC 

Code: [Select]
options: --ogg -P 8192 -b 4608 -m -l 12 -e -q 0 -r 0,6 -V

ERROR initializing encoder
init_status = FLAC__STREAM_ENCODER_INIT_STATUS_UNSUPPORTED_CONTAINER

beta1 work fine.

ugh, the problem is that the .dsp files for libFLAC don't have /D "FLAC__HAS_OGG" in them (and some other .dsp's then need to link with libogg).  I fixed that in CVS and re-uploaded the windows binaries.

New beta2 work fine ogg-FLAC. thx Josh
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: jcoalson on 2006-10-18 19:41:13
One thing i noticed. If i encode with Flac-Frontend and add Tags and RG it takes much longer now. I mean the writing of the Tags after encoding. Does this relate to a problem? i didn´t found any but it makes me wonder. This was in beta1 already.

what takes longer?  and what is the time difference and how big is the WAV file?

with 1.1.2 i see only running all trakcs thru the window ~1 second when after encoding the tags and replaygain are written. An average album with wavs ~50-80MB. For 1.1.3 it is ~1 whole second per song.
Nothing to worry indeed but a difference i thought should be reported. Maybe Tag.exe needs longer?

hmm, don't know what that could be.  at first it sounded like the whole file was being rewritten because of the tags but that would take a lot longer than 1sec.
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: DrGreen on 2006-10-18 22:05:37
Thanks for the new improvements.

I've been playing with the picture importing feature and everything seems ok. Although I have one question: how do we extract the pictures from the block to a file? it would be nice to have a --export-pictures switch that would extract all pictures to files with the names made from the pic type and extensions from mime types.

(I hope this is not too dumb.. )

Thanks!
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: jcoalson on 2006-10-18 22:14:41
yeah, that's on the TODO but I didn't want to hold back 1.1.3 for it.
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: smz on 2006-10-18 22:23:15
yeah, that's on the TODO but I didn't want to hold back 1.1.3 for it.
Hold on a second... do you mean we can embed album art with 1.1.3 but there is no way to extract it and we should wait for a future release to have any use for it?

Totally unrealated: I can be blind (and already proved to be in the past) but I don't see anything in the changelog about the possibility to embed cuesheets on non-CDA-sector-aligned material that was supposed to be available in the "next release". Is that fixed?

Sergio

Edit: sorry, I posted an empty reply in the first time. Now there is one.
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: DrGreen on 2006-10-18 22:24:13
glad to know that

thanks once again
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: iGold on 2006-10-19 03:08:47
it would be nice to have a --export-pictures switch

I also vote for more extended picture support out of box only with flac/metaflac tools. Or flac 1.1.4 is planned soon after 1.1.3?
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: JWolf on 2006-10-22 01:16:46
Please please please do us (those of us who want the smallest sized FLAC files) remove the embedding of album art. It's only going to lead to FLAC files posted on the net with album art included and I really really hate embedded album art of any kind. I don't need it at all and I don't want to risk getting files that have embedded album art.

Jon
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: Jose Hidalgo on 2006-10-22 12:40:20
JWolf, what are you saying ?  The size of the embedded album art is negligible compared to the size of FLAC file (maybe about 100 KB max. compared to about 25-30 MB of a single FLAC file, that's less than 0,3-0,4%). What exactly is your interest in having the smallest possible FLAC file sizes ? Why is it so important for you ? If you really want small file sizes and 100 KB per file are vital to you, do know that there are other lossless codecs that compress slightly more than FLAC. And if you still want smaller file sizes, why don't you go MP3 ? 

Also, just remember that you'll be able to batch-remove all the embedded album art you don't want in just a few clicks with most of the tag&rename softwares out there. So I really don't see the point.

So come on, let's be honest : the new album art embedding is a great improvement to FLAC, and I hope there will be soon lyrics embedding also (that's 2-3 more KB per file... wow, big deal !  ). Josh, what do you think ? Is lyrics embedding (and additional tag support like genre/sub-genre, album artist/song artist, etc.) in the pipeline for future FLAC releases ?

As for myself, I just can't wait for FLAC 1.1.3 final in order to begin ripping my 1000 CD collection. Thanks Josh for all your hard work. You rock ! 
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: kjoonlee on 2006-10-22 14:18:02
Please please please do us (those of us who want the smallest sized FLAC files) remove the embedding of album art. It's only going to lead to FLAC files posted on the net with album art included and I really really hate embedded album art of any kind. I don't need it at all and I don't want to risk getting files that have embedded album art.

Jon

From metaflac --help:
Quote
--import-picture=SPECIFICATION Import a picture and store it in a PICTURE block.

You can probably just delete the block with metaflac.
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: jcoalson on 2006-10-22 18:16:44
yeah, that's on the TODO but I didn't want to hold back 1.1.3 for it.
Hold on a second... do you mean we can embed album art with 1.1.3 but there is no way to extract it and we should wait for a future release to have any use for it?

well I thought it was only going to be used it players through the API.  the calls in libFLAC are there to read pictures, it's just there is no metaflac command to export yet.

Totally unrealated: I can be blind (and already proved to be in the past) but I don't see anything in the changelog about the possibility to embed cuesheets on non-CDA-sector-aligned material that was supposed to be available in the "next release". Is that fixed?

yep, it's fixed.

So come on, let's be honest : the new album art embedding is a great improvement to FLAC, and I hope there will be soon lyrics embedding also (that's 2-3 more KB per file... wow, big deal !  ). Josh, what do you think ? Is lyrics embedding (and additional tag support like genre/sub-genre, album artist/song artist, etc.) in the pipeline for future FLAC releases ?

hmm, I haven't really been asked for that yet so I haven't looked into it.  are there any players that use it?  what is the usual mechanism?

Josh
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: Jose Hidalgo on 2006-10-22 22:24:45
hmm, I haven't really been asked for that yet so I haven't looked into it.  are there any players that use it?  what is the usual mechanism?

I'm afraid I'm not qualified enough to answer that question.  Here are some examples :
- iTunes has been supporting album art & lyrics embedding for some time now. Everything seems to be inside the music files, but I don't know how. Of course iTunes doesn't support FLAC yet (it should in a few months according to XiphQT developer : http://www.xiph.org/quicktime (http://www.xiph.org/quicktime) ).
- There's also Music Library ( http://www.wensoftware.com/MusicLibrary (http://www.wensoftware.com/MusicLibrary) ) that would allow to add album art & lyrics to a FLAC file, in which case the album art is external (link to an external jpg) and as for the lyrics I haven't found any link or external file, so maybe the lyrics are added somewhat to the FLAC file ? 
- And probably lots of others players / library organizers.
I don't know if I'm answering your question. I don't know about the mechanisms. Sorry but I just can't be more helpful on that matter.
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: Lashiec on 2006-10-25 10:10:17
Josh, I'm just curious. Why the size increase in the default padding?
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: Egor on 2006-10-25 15:32:23
Why the size increase in the default padding?

The previous 4kb padding was clearly not enough: there was a number of complaints about slow tag update speed, especially for CD-audio images. Hence the new nice 8k padding and 64k for audio longer than 20 minutes.
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: Lashiec on 2006-10-26 12:47:13
Why the size increase in the default padding?

The previous 4kb padding was clearly not enough: there was a number of complaints about slow tag update speed, especially for CD-audio images. Hence the new nice 8k padding and 64k for audio longer than 20 minutes.

Oh, I understand. Since I use individual files and I don't add too much information to them, it's normal I didn't have any problems retagging the files, even those 20 minutes ones. Although I never tried with "Octavarium"...
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: Jose Hidalgo on 2006-10-26 12:56:57
How is this beta going ? Can we expect a 1.1.3 Final soon ? 
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: jcoalson on 2006-10-26 16:10:40
How is this beta going ? Can we expect a 1.1.3 Final soon ? 

the beta seems fine.  I'm still writing patches for various projects that are affected by API changes to make the transition easier.  should be a couple more weeks.

Josh


p.s. could also use some help with this:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=49439 (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=49439)
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: Synthetic Soul on 2006-10-27 20:15:14
Discussion regarding conversion of 1.1.2 to 1.1.3 moved to this thread (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=49638).
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: gharris999 on 2006-10-28 00:36:48
Josh: I'm adding my vote for a "--export-picture" option for Metaflac in 1.1.3. 

I routinely add cover art to my whole-album flacs now and I'm in the habit of deleting the scanned jpgs when I'm done.  When I edit metadata in my flacs, I use a script to dump the metadata to files, edit the offending file (usually a cue sheet), clear the tags in the flac and then re-embed.

Without a way to extract the pictures, I'm afraid that I'll end up loosing the images when I clear tags.
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: WaldoMonster on 2006-10-29 11:26:55
Could wildcard support be implemented for Windows OS.
If read somewhere that this is not needed for Linux/Unix because of the native OS wildcard support.

I found a workaround with glob.exe, but native support would be great.
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....howtopic=45862# (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=45862#)

Thanks,

Willem
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: goodnews on 2006-11-01 13:40:53
Josh,

Thanks for working on this new FLAC update.

I am glad it will be backward compatible with all FLAC players (version 1.1.x decoders). Nice to see album art option for art support included.

The only thing I see missing (and which I saw someone else mentioned also) is Lyrics support, as iTunes and other players support display of song lyrics if it is embedded in the audio file via 'a tag'. Since there is no standard for a lyrics tag I am aware of (iTunes uses their own in M4A and ALAC lossless files they create), you would have to define one. Lyrics are a text field that is multi-line text with carriage returns/linefeed characters that should fit well in a text tag field and most songs lyrics are not that big in size. It would be a "nice to have" optional tag feature so people could look at the words to the song in their audio player (if the player supported song lyrics display).

I write my own songs and would like to embed the lyrics so my customers/listeners can see the words/have them included in the audio file. Also I like to insert lyrics into the audio file when I purchase a song or rip one from a CD I own. I know many artists would likely use this lyrics feature to "add value" to their music when distributing it via FLAC files.  It is always nice to have both lyrics and artwork in my opinion. I appreciate any consideratiuon you can give this text lyrics option. It would truly make FLAC an even better and more versatile audio encoding file format.

Thanks again for this FLAC update. I look forward to the future growth of FLAC in hardware devices and software apps.
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: jcoalson on 2006-11-01 16:12:07
ok, but if it's just a tag you can already embed lyrics with flac 1.1.3 with its new option --tag-from-file

Josh
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: goodnews on 2006-11-01 16:35:10
ok, but if it's just a tag you can already embed lyrics with flac 1.1.3 with its new option --tag-from-file

Josh

I guess what I am asking for Josh is a new standardized lyric tag for FLAC in the 1.1.3 spec. Since lyrics are usually lines of text (with carrage returns/linefeeds embedded), i.e. a plain textfile, there has to be some standard tag name defined to denote lyrics embedded in FLAC files so all players can access/read the lyrics properly. I don't know the technical ways Apple iTunes embeds Lyrics in M4A and lossless ALAC files it creates, but it must be through atoms/tags or something similar. Just wanted to have a standard lyrics tag (or embed option) defined in the FLAC spec. Hope this helps.
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: Egor on 2006-11-01 17:55:24
I guess what I am asking for Josh is a new standardized lyric tag for FLAC in the 1.1.3 spec.

Well, why don't you just stick with LYRICS tag? Is there a meaningful reason to elaborate on a new RFC/ISO/whatever standard for just LYRICS tag? 
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: goodnews on 2006-11-01 20:20:57
I guess what I am asking for Josh is a new standardized lyric tag for FLAC in the 1.1.3 spec.

Well, why don't you just stick with LYRICS tag? Is there a meaningful reason to elaborate on a new RFC/ISO/whatever standard for just LYRICS tag? 

Is there already a lyrics tag for FLAC files that is in standard use. If so, I have never seen or heard of one. Is it part of Vorbis comments and in wide use? Please enlighten us so we can ask WinAmp and other FLAC supporting audio players to recognize this standardized lyrics tag to suport display of lyrics in FLAC files? Thanks in advance.

Also which FLAC audio encoding apps support this standard LYRICS tag for embedding a song lyrics inside a FLAC file? I have yet to find one. Perhaps I looked in the wrong places. I have never heard lyrics in FLAC files brought up as being possible before.
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: jcoalson on 2006-11-02 04:10:26
I would recommend LYRICS as the most logical choice.

also, just checked in a new --export-picture-to option for metaflac, that will be in 1.1.3

http://flac.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*...port_picture_to (http://flac.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/flac/flac/doc/html/documentation.html#metaflac_shorthand_export_picture_to)

Josh
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: goodnews on 2006-11-02 04:33:15
I would recommend LYRICS as the most logical choice.

also, just checked in a new --export-picture-to option for metaflac, that will be in 1.1.3

http://flac.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*...port_picture_to (http://flac.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/flac/flac/doc/html/documentation.html#metaflac_shorthand_export_picture_to)

Josh

Thanks Josh. I Guess LYRICS is the name for embedding lyrics in FLACs then. Now we have to get FLAC supporting apps to recognize/support that. Also thanks for adding the picture and export_picture options to FLAC 1.1.3 - I know a lot of people have been wanting a standardized way to embed album cover art in their FLAC files.

Keep up the great work!
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: tycho on 2006-11-02 10:59:23
I would recommend LYRICS as the most logical choice.

also, just checked in a new --export-picture-to option for metaflac, that will be in 1.1.3

http://flac.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*...port_picture_to (http://flac.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/flac/flac/doc/html/documentation.html#metaflac_shorthand_export_picture_to)

Josh
Is that a good choice, given that LYRICS is suggested as "the person who wrote the lyrics, eg Donizetti", in the Ogg Vorbis Comment Field Recommendations (http://reactor-core.org/ogg-tagging.html)?

Edit: sorry, noticed that it was LYRICIST, and not LYRICS that is used for that. Forget it.
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: Maurits on 2006-11-02 11:33:11
I would recommend LYRICS as the most logical choice.

also, just checked in a new --export-picture-to option for metaflac, that will be in 1.1.3

http://flac.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*...port_picture_to (http://flac.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/flac/flac/doc/html/documentation.html#metaflac_shorthand_export_picture_to)

Josh

I agree. But, for everyone's sake, please set standards like these as soon as possible before some idiot app or OS developer makes up his own and we're stuck with multiple different standards in a years time. I'd say at least before Apple has to create one of his own for when FLAC becomes natively part of the next OS X (Leopard, to be introduced in the spring of 2007).
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: Jose Hidalgo on 2006-11-03 15:07:42
I'd just like to go +1 with goodnews. It's true that a LYRICS option would be a great improvement to FLAC 1.1.3. With that, we would have what most people want besides FLAC music : (1) album art and (2) song lyrics. Josh, please think about it. IMHO, album art and song lyrics are simply complementary and should come together. Thanks in advance for implementing this as a defined standard ASAP, so that 3rd party developers can quickly support it in their FLAC-compatible applications (e.g. foobar2000, Music Library...).

BTW, about native FLAC support in Leopard, I've been hearding of it in the last few days, but is there any consistent information about it ? Is it confirmed ? Any links ?
FLAC support in Leopard would probably mean FLAC support in QuickTime, which would mean FLAC support in iTunes for both Mac and Windows !!!   
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: gharris999 on 2006-11-03 17:46:23
I would recommend LYRICS as the most logical choice.

also, just checked in a new --export-picture-to option for metaflac, that will be in 1.1.3

http://flac.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*...port_picture_to (http://flac.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/flac/flac/doc/html/documentation.html#metaflac_shorthand_export_picture_to)

Josh


--export-picture-to:  yeah!!!  Thanks Josh!

--lyrics:  --set-tag-from-file="LYRICS=Dis workz gud enuf for me.txt"
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: kritip on 2006-11-05 10:44:52
so you can import and now export....does export delete/move the picture from the FLAC file or just copy out it to a file/stdout?

Cheers,

Kristian
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: JWolf on 2006-11-05 14:51:00
Any idea how much longer until 1.1.3 is an official release? Any bugs we should be aware of in beta 2?

Jon
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: Egor on 2006-11-05 17:21:18
so you can import and now export....does export delete/move the picture from the FLAC file or just copy out it to a file/stdout?

Just copy.
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: ffooky on 2006-11-05 18:28:48
Josh, I just tried compiling beta2 and it hangs during the ./configure stage:
Code: [Select]
checking for nl_langinfo and CODESET... yes
checking for docbook-to-man... no
checking for docbook2man... no
checking for nasm... nasm
checking for as... as
checking for gas... no
/usr/libexec/gcc/darwin/i386/as: I don't understand '-' flag!
Apple Computer, Inc. version cctools-622.3.obj~2, GNU assembler version 1.38
I realised I hadn't made the changes to the two files you recommended before but when I went to alter them, the alterations were already made. Am I missing something obvious ?

Intel iMac OS X 10.4.8
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: Egor on 2006-11-05 22:57:06
Regarding multichannel WAVE_FORMAT_EX files

I suggest adding a --channel-mask option to flac and the channel assignment table from WAVE_FORMAT_EXTENSIBLE definition to the documentation. Unfortunately, there are still popular applications not supporting _EXTENSIBLE  .
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: JWolf on 2006-11-06 23:23:35
ok, turns out the trouble with this particular file is actually in the wave chunk handling; I think it is including non-'data' chunks that follow the 'data' chunk and treating them as audio.  when I have more time after the next release I will look into the rest of the suite.

Josh
[attachment=2624:attachment]

Turns out FLAC 1.1.3 beta 2 also cannot handle this WAV file without an error.

flac 1.1.3beta2, Copyright © 2000,2001,2002,2003,2004,2005,2006  Josh Coalson
flac comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY.  This is free software, and you are
welcome to redistribute it under certain conditions.  Type `flac' for details.

options: -P 8192 -b 4608 -m -l 12 -e -q 0 -r 0,6
wacky2.wav: WARNING: skipping unknown sub-chunk 'fact'
wacky2.wav: WARNING: skipping unknown sub-chunk 'pad '
wacky2.wav: WARNING: skipping unknown sub-chunk 'pad '
wacky2.wav: wrote 8328 bytes, ratio=138.800

The resulting WAV from the FLAC file no longer matches. The original is 96 bytes and the decompressed one is 60 bytes. FLAKE 's decompressed WAV file is 72 bytes.
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: jcoalson on 2006-11-06 23:49:29
no, it's not an error, see my explanation here.
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....st&p=447495 (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=45013&view=findpost&p=447495)

let's keep the discussion in that one topic.

Josh


so you can import and now export....does export delete/move the picture from the FLAC file or just copy out it to a file/stdout?

yeah, maybe export is a bad word, but it's just a copy, it won't delete the metadata.

Any idea how much longer until 1.1.3 is an official release? Any bugs we should be aware of in beta 2?

I've finished writing patches for the projects I know about (BTW if anyone needs one for an open source project and hasn't gotten one let me know).  now I'm just going through the few remaining bugs on SF.

no major bugs have turned up so far since beta2.  so I'm hoping in 2 weeks it will be ready.

Josh, I just tried compiling beta2 and it hangs during the ./configure stage:
Code: [Select]
checking for nl_langinfo and CODESET... yes
checking for docbook-to-man... no
checking for docbook2man... no
checking for nasm... nasm
checking for as... as
checking for gas... no
/usr/libexec/gcc/darwin/i386/as: I don't understand '-' flag!
Apple Computer, Inc. version cctools-622.3.obj~2, GNU assembler version 1.38
I realised I hadn't made the changes to the two files you recommended before but when I went to alter them, the alterations were already made. Am I missing something obvious ?

ugh, hmm.... ok I will take a look again.  it is basically waiting on stdin so you could try hitting ^D, it might keep going.

Regarding multichannel WAVE_FORMAT_EX files

I suggest adding a --channel-mask option to flac and the channel assignment table from WAVE_FORMAT_EXTENSIBLE definition to the documentation. Unfortunately, there are still popular applications not supporting _EXTENSIBLE  .

ok, I don't have any intuition on whether this will be necessary yet, I would just say if you run into multichannel files that flac rejects, send them to me so I can build up some info on the oddball ones.

Josh
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: ffooky on 2006-11-07 00:34:54
ugh, hmm.... ok I will take a look again.  it is basically waiting on stdin so you could try hitting ^D, it might keep going.
Thanks Josh, that did the trick to get it through ./configure but make fails with:
Code: [Select]
gcc -dynamiclib ${wl}-flat_namespace ${wl}-undefined ${wl}suppress -o .libs/libFLAC.8.0.0.dylib  .libs/bitbuffer.o .libs/bitmath.o .libs/cpu.o .libs/crc.o .libs/fixed.o .libs/float.o .libs/format.o .libs/lpc.o .libs/md5.o .libs/memory.o .libs/metadata_iterators.o .libs/metadata_object.o .libs/stream_decoder.o .libs/stream_encoder.o .libs/stream_encoder_framing.o .libs/window.o  .libs/libFLAC.lax/libFLAC-asm.a/cpu_asm.o .libs/libFLAC.lax/libFLAC-asm.a/fixed_asm.o .libs/libFLAC.lax/libFLAC-asm.a/lpc_asm.o   -lm  -install_name  /usr/local/lib/libFLAC.8.dylib -Wl,-compatibility_version -Wl,9 -Wl,-current_version -Wl,9.0
/usr/bin/libtool: file: .libs/libFLAC.lax/libFLAC-asm.a/cpu_asm.o is not an object file (not allowed in a library)
/usr/bin/libtool: file: .libs/libFLAC.lax/libFLAC-asm.a/fixed_asm.o is not an object file (not allowed in a library)
/usr/bin/libtool: file: .libs/libFLAC.lax/libFLAC-asm.a/lpc_asm.o is not an object file (not allowed in a library)
make[4]: *** [libFLAC.la] Error 1
make[3]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
make[2]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
make: *** [all] Error 2
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: Egor on 2006-11-07 05:13:22
ok, I don't have any intuition on whether this will be necessary yet, I would just say if you run into multichannel files that flac rejects, send them to me so I can build up some info on the oddball ones.

Foobar2000 [a href='index.php?showtopic=49191']generates[/a] multichannel WAV files, which are not compatible with flac.exe 1.1.3 and Windows Media Encoder. I've sent you a sample to the address at sf.net.
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: anticrust on 2006-11-07 06:51:55
One small problem with version info. I use flac.exe –version and metaflac.exe –show-vendor-tag in a windows batch script to determine if a .flac file needs to be updated to a newer version. The problem is the output is no longer consistent.

flac.exe –version = flac 1.1.3beta2
metaflac.exe --show-vendor-tag = reference libFLAC 1.1.3-beta2 20061016

The “-“ seems to be the problem. Can you make the change in the final version so my script will work again?

Thanks!
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: jcoalson on 2006-11-07 07:04:33
yeah, this is only for the windows binary, I couldn't get MSVC6 to accept dashes in /D arguments in the .dsp file, even with quoting.  the 1.1.3 final will not have this problem since there will be no beta suffix or dashes.

Egor, thanks for the file, will check it out tomorrow.

Josh
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: Madman2003 on 2006-11-09 09:18:27
I wanted to warn a smaller project, but i cannot seem to find any api documentation of 1.1.3 (the website has the old stuff and can't find anything in cvs).

So were can api documentation be found?
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: jcoalson on 2006-11-09 16:29:32
yes, unfortunately the API docs are built from sources at release time and not checked in.  the easiest way would be to check out CVS head anonymously:

http://sourceforge.net/cvs/?group_id=13478 (http://sourceforge.net/cvs/?group_id=13478)

...and run Doxygen.  or just read the raw porting guide in include/FLAC/all.h:

http://flac.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*...lude/FLAC/all.h (http://flac.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/flac/flac/include/FLAC/all.h)

Josh
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: JWolf on 2006-11-12 21:38:07
One small problem with version info. I use flac.exe –version and metaflac.exe –show-vendor-tag in a windows batch script to determine if a .flac file needs to be updated to a newer version. The problem is the output is no longer consistent.

flac.exe –version = flac 1.1.3beta2
metaflac.exe --show-vendor-tag = reference libFLAC 1.1.3-beta2 20061016

The “-“ seems to be the problem. Can you make the change in the final version so my script will work again?

Thanks!


Would you mind posting your batch file please? I would love to know which of my FLAC files need updating and let the batch file go through them all and update just the ones that need updating.
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: anticrust on 2006-11-15 05:31:28
That function is part of a larger script I use for multi-format flac conversion. You can download my current 1.1.2 compatable package from: http://www.revnull.com/download.php?file=!convert.zip (http://www.revnull.com/download.php?file=!convert.zip)
Just unzip the !convert directory into the root of your flac file directory. Run the flac-util.cmd script and follow the prompts.
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: Jose Hidalgo on 2006-11-15 10:28:24
Hi everybody,

I was just wondering if the LYRICS tab request (see previous topic pages) has been taken into consideration (maybe it already has). IMHO it should be quite easy to implement (I guess it's just an empty space of a given size, isn't it ?).

Josh ? Any news on that matter ?

Thanks again  /  Jose
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: Egor on 2006-11-15 14:26:53
I was just wondering if the LYRICS tab request (see previous topic pages) has been taken into consideration (maybe it already has). IMHO it should be quite easy to implement (I guess it's just an empty space of a given size, isn't it ?).

Hi, support for LYRICS tag has already been added. You can add lyrics text to your flac files like that:
flac.exe --tag-from-file=LYRICS=lyrics.txt (while encoding),
metaflac.exe --set-tag-from-file="LYRICS=lyrics.txt"

If you want to add an empty LYRICS tag, then use following options:
flac.exe --tag=LYRICS="" (while encoding)
metaflac.exe --set-tag="LYRICS="
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: JWolf on 2006-11-15 16:25:22
That function is part of a larger script I use for multi-format flac conversion. You can download my current 1.1.2 compatable package from: http://www.revnull.com/download.php?file=!convert.zip (http://www.revnull.com/download.php?file=!convert.zip)
Just unzip the !convert directory into the root of your flac file directory. Run the flac-util.cmd script and follow the prompts.


Thank you!
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: jcoalson on 2006-11-16 05:21:43
Foobar2000 [a href='index.php?showtopic=49191']generates[/a] multichannel WAV files, which are not compatible with flac.exe 1.1.3 and Windows Media Encoder. I've sent you a sample to the address at sf.net.

ok, these look like the WAV files flac used to generate too, they are 6ch WAVEFORMATEX which are technically not allowed but common.

the way I am handling this in flac-1.1.3 is an undocumented option '--channel-map=none' to let flac assume the channels are in WAVEFORMATEXTENSIBLE's order.  note that you still have to feed flac a multichannel file that uses one of the legal channel assignments (http://flac.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*...ml#frame_header (http://flac.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/flac/flac/doc/html/format.html#frame_header)) if you want to make sure the decoded WAV later has the right channels in the right order with the right channel mask.

Josh
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: Jose Hidalgo on 2006-11-16 08:06:01
Thanks Egor for your valuable information. Now all we need is music software support for FLAC 1.1.3 including the new "picture" and "LYRICS" tags.

FLAC 1.1.3 is going to ROCK ! 

Oh BTW, what's the point in adding an empty LYRICS tag ? I don't understand.
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: Egor on 2006-11-16 08:29:46
Oh BTW, what's the point in adding an empty LYRICS tag ? I don't understand.

An empty LYRICS tag is kinda LYRICS tab you've asked about  :
I was just wondering if the LYRICS tab request (see previous topic pages) has been taken into consideration (maybe it already has).
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: Jose Hidalgo on 2006-11-17 14:09:39
Ooh, sorry, I meant "tag" not "tab" ! 

My question was just about the use of an EMPTY lyrics tag. As far as I know we are not compelled to tell FLAC to define empty tags for all the other tags (title, album, genre, etc, etc.). They are default-defined (and empty of course until they are filled), and I guess it will be the same for the picture and LYRICS tags.

So I don't see the use in defining an empty lyrics tag, except for deleting the lyrics you don't want anymore of course. Is that what you meant ?
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: jcoalson on 2006-11-17 16:13:31
My question was just about the use of an EMPTY lyrics tag. As far as I know we are not compelled to tell FLAC to define empty tags for all the other tags (title, album, genre, etc, etc.). They are default-defined (and empty of course until they are filled), and I guess it will be the same for the picture and LYRICS tags.

that's right

So I don't see the use in defining an empty lyrics tag, except for deleting the lyrics you don't want anymore of course.

for that you can use 'metaflac --remove-tag=LYRICS'

another update: 1.1.3 is in final testing now so it should be ready witihin a week or so.  updated comparison here:
http://flac.sourceforge.net/comparison.html (http://flac.sourceforge.net/comparison.html)

Josh
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: Jose Hidalgo on 2006-11-17 16:28:52
Thanks Josh, that's great news !

No offense intended of course, but as far as I know the information on WavPack given at http://flac.sourceforge.net/comparison.html (http://flac.sourceforge.net/comparison.html) is a bit outdated isn't it ? Here ( http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?ti...less_comparison (http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Lossless_comparison) ) it seems that WavPack has both streaming capabilities and hardware support. Am I wrong ? (I am not used to WavPack).
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: jcoalson on 2006-11-17 19:13:20
yeah, that part does need some maintenance but I fixed some of the glaring stuff.
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: Jebus on 2006-11-17 23:33:15
Sort of off-topic, but the developers page at http://flac.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*.../api/index.html (http://flac.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/flac/flac/doc/html/api/index.html) doesn't seem to exist.
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: Egor on 2006-11-18 09:30:31
Sort of off-topic, but the developers page at http://flac.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*.../api/index.html (http://flac.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/flac/flac/doc/html/api/index.html) doesn't seem to exist.

You can find the documentation in the latest source tarball (e.g., flac-1.1.3-beta2.tar.gz). See also the quote below:
yes, unfortunately the API docs are built from sources at release time and not checked in.  the easiest way would be to check out CVS head anonymously:

http://sourceforge.net/cvs/?group_id=13478 (http://sourceforge.net/cvs/?group_id=13478)

...and run Doxygen.  or just read the raw porting guide in include/FLAC/all.h:

http://flac.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*...lude/FLAC/all.h (http://flac.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/flac/flac/include/FLAC/all.h)
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: Maurits on 2006-11-19 18:25:15
the beta seems fine.  I'm still writing patches for various projects that are affected by API changes to make the transition easier.  should be a couple more weeks.

Josh

Have you been in contact with the developers behind taglib (http://developer.kde.org/~wheeler/taglib.html)? It is a popular open source metadata lib and getting things like lyrics and image support in there means that probably very soon a lot of open source players will support it.

They are working on releasing 1.5 (stable) soon but getting it in now would still be on time judging from the dev-list.
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: fairway on 2006-11-28 08:38:02
Are there any news regarding the final testing? (...another update: 1.1.3 is in final testing now so it should be ready witihin a week or so...)
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: fairway on 2006-11-28 19:20:10
Hi all,

I just checked the download site again and flac 1.1.3 is now out and ready to download!
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: Jose Hidalgo on 2006-11-28 22:13:41
Thanks fairway.

However I don't see any mention of the LYRICS tag in the changelog : http://flac.sourceforge.net/changelog.html (http://flac.sourceforge.net/changelog.html).

And the windows installer link ( http://cyberial.com/flacinstaller.asp (http://cyberial.com/flacinstaller.asp) ) still points to FLAC 1.1.2a : it seems that only the "tools only" link ( http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.p...ackage_id=12675 (http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=13478&package_id=12675) ) has been updated.

Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: arpeggio on 2006-11-28 22:39:16
You will find the Windows binaries over here:

http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.p...lease_id=467249 (http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=13478&package_id=12675&release_id=467249)
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: Jose Hidalgo on 2006-11-28 22:47:51
Same links as the last one I gave up here (same binaries in fact)...  Thanks anyway !
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: goodnews on 2006-11-29 05:38:09
Thanks fairway.

However I don't see any mention of the LYRICS tag in the changelog : http://flac.sourceforge.net/changelog.html (http://flac.sourceforge.net/changelog.html).

And the windows installer link ( http://cyberial.com/flacinstaller.asp (http://cyberial.com/flacinstaller.asp) ) still points to FLAC 1.1.2a : it seems that only the "tools only" link ( http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.p...ackage_id=12675 (http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=13478&package_id=12675) ) has been updated.



Yes, I agree with you, a reference in the FLAC 1.1.3 Docs and CHANGELOG would be nice to let people know that the "LYRICS" tag is the approved tag name for embedding LYRICS in a FLAC file. Josh has posted here that he thinks we should use the LYRICS name for the Tag, plus many others here in this thread have agreed to standadize the tag name on "LYRICS". We need authors to know this so they start supporting an optional LYRICS tag/info along with the new ALBUM ART that the new FLAC version is supporting.

Also a new validated news thread for the FLAC 1.1.3 press release should be started as this thread is for the FLAC 1.1.3 beta, plus it's getting quite long.  Just my opinion...
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: jcoalson on 2006-11-29 05:51:47
I am waiting on the windows installer from Mike (since that is what most people use) before doing the official announcement, to avoid confusion.  but you can get binaries and source for 1.1.3 on sourceforge.

the LYRICS tag is strictly a user issue.  neither FLAC nor Vorbis specify tagging policy, and the only real recommendations are here (http://xiph.org/vorbis/doc/v-comment.html).  the LYRICS tag as described in this thread is intuitive so I don't see any problem with adoption.

Josh
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: goodnews on 2006-11-29 06:45:01
I am waiting on the windows installer from Mike (since that is what most people use) before doing the official announcement, to avoid confusion.  but you can get binaries and source for 1.1.3 on sourceforge.

the LYRICS tag is strictly a user issue.  neither FLAC nor Vorbis specify tagging policy, and the only real recommendations are here (http://xiph.org/vorbis/doc/v-comment.html).  the LYRICS tag as described in this thread is intuitive so I don't see any problem with adoption.

Josh

Thanks Josh for clearing that up about the LYRICS tag. I hope lots of developers start to use/support it in their FLAC files. I just downloaded the FLAC 1.1.3 binary (for Windows). I look forward to your official announcement on your flac.sourceforge.net page as well as in a new thread in validated news here on Hydrogen Audio.

BTW Josh, have you (or your testers) tested the Windows build on the new Windows VISTA latest release build for compatability? Also the same for the Windows installer, as many will have their hands on Vista beginning in about a week (for business customers) and January (for individuals/consumers). Just curious what versions of Windows the FLAC binary and Windows installer have or will be tested on. Is their a Mac OS X build out yet?
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: goodnews on 2006-11-29 07:56:42
Josh, here are some incorrect URLs and newer FLAC supporting extra software that should be corrected in your doc/html directory for your updated FLAC site and also included with the binaries and other distros. These will help more people find these great FLAC supporting programs/tools:

All are from FLAC 1.1.3's doc/html directory:

Filename:  download.html - Under the:  Extras heading

Under: CD Burning/Windows:
Add: [$] Easy Media Creator 9 Suite - link: http://www.roxio.com/enu/products/creator/...e/features.html (http://www.roxio.com/enu/products/creator/suite/features.html)
Add: [$] Easy CD-DA Extractor  - link: http://www.poikosoft.com/ (http://www.poikosoft.com/)

Under: Players and plugins/Windows:
Edit: Adobe Auditon (as a plugin) link to new link of: http://www.vuplayer.com/audition.php (http://www.vuplayer.com/audition.php)
Add: Song Bird - link: http://www.songbirdnest.com/ (http://www.songbirdnest.com/)
Edit: VUPlayer link to new link of: http://www.vuplayer.com/vuplayer.php (http://www.vuplayer.com/vuplayer.php)

Under: Players and plugins/Mac OS X:
Add: Song Bird - link: http://www.songbirdnest.com/ (http://www.songbirdnest.com/)

These should help the extra programs list to be more accurate and fix moved/changed links, plus add some new popular apps. The more people that can find major FLAC supporting apps the better for the future long-term success of the FLAC format.

Hope this helps...
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: ffooky on 2006-11-29 07:58:41
Is their a Mac OS X build out yet?
There's no Intel build at the moment but in the meantime, XLD (http://tmkk.hp.infoseek.co.jp/xld/index_e.html) has been updated to 1.1.3.
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: Egor on 2006-11-29 08:13:54
Add: [$] Easy Media Creator 9 Suite - link: http://www.roxio.com/enu/products/creator/...e/features.html (http://www.roxio.com/enu/products/creator/suite/features.html)

Yup, Easy Media Creator is a major Windows application, that should be mentioned, btw it does other things than just CD burning (audio editor etc.).

Foobar2000 has a native FLAC input/encoding preset support (so it doesn't need a plugin currently).
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: goodnews on 2006-11-29 08:35:58
Foobar2000 has a native FLAC input/encoding preset support (so it doesn't need a plugin currently).

Yes, and speaking about filters/plugins no longer be required by foobar2000, I just remembered that the latest version of Winamp has their own version of a FLAC decoder and encoder.

I hope the new FLAC Windows Installer (Mike Wren is currently working on) WON'T install the Winamp plugin by default clobbering Nullsoft's built-in FLAC decoder (or encoder).

Also, maybe Josh should mention something in the Windows binaries docs (or README.WIN32 file) that the Winamp plugin should only be used in earlier (pre Windows 5.31) builds of Winamp, to avoid conflicts between it and the native Nullsoft FLAC encoder and decoder.
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: imre_herceg on 2006-11-30 10:40:53
I compiled 1.1.3 final on Linux from sources downloaded from flac site, and transcoded a few flac files earlier made by 1.1.3beta1 and 1.1.3beta2. I was surprised to find that the file size made by 1.1.3 are larger than those made by 1.1.3 beta1 and beta2. I checked a few files created with 1.1.2, and 1.1.3 produced files of the same size, indeed, very slightly even bigger ones. Embedding pictures, however, worked allright.
Is it just me, or has anyone else had similar experiences?
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: matthias1985 on 2006-11-30 12:50:27
Is it just me, or has anyone else had similar experiences?


I have the same experience. I use the precompiled 1.1.3 win32 binaries, and the compression rate is as high as in the 1.1.2 release. But the 1.1.3betas gave me much better compression rates. I also wondered about this! I searched in the docs, but I don't found any explanation for this. So I still use 1.1.3beta2.
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: Egor on 2006-11-30 12:56:45
Is it just me, or has anyone else had similar experiences?

Confirmed, 1.1.3-release produces larger files than 1.1.3-beta2:

U2 - How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb.flac
345988700 1.1.3-beta2
349337313 1.1.3-release
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: jcoalson on 2006-11-30 16:13:07
wierd, there should not be any difference in compression between beta2 and final.  if someone can host a track (FLAC or WAV), and also post the command line options used to compress, I'll take a look.

Josh
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: matthias1985 on 2006-11-30 19:59:35
wierd, there should not be any difference in compression between beta2 and final.  if someone can host a track (FLAC or WAV), and also post the command line options used to compress, I'll take a look.

Josh


I tested it with several samples and with every sample I get different sizes between the betas and the final version.

So I uploaded a short sample that is shorter than 30s:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=50626 (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=50626)

I use -V5 for encoding. I use foobar and there I use that command line option: "-s -5 - -o %d" (standard settings)

If I use flacdrop the sizes are also different. So its likely no foobar problem.

Thank you,

Matthias
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: jcoalson on 2006-11-30 23:27:15
there is something fishy about Waiting.flac... it has a big seektable with ~21K of unused seekpoints.  this looks to me like a manifestation of an old problem between fb2k and flac (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=41287) (see also SF bug (http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1539226&group_id=13478&atid=113478)), where fb2k was forging the wave headers with a larger size than necessary (because it didn't know the actual size ahead of time) when encoding to stdout.  with this and the extra 60K default padding this would account for ~81K.

but neither of these should come up when comparing 1.1.3-beta2 vs. 1.1.3 final since the code is so similar.  And it wouldn't explain Egor's 1% difference.

so I decoded Waiting.flac to wav, then did 'flac -5V Waiting.wav -o cmp.flac' with both the win32 binary releases (beta2 and final) and got almost identical sizes.  then I rebuilt from sources on linux and did the same thing and got the same sizes as with the windows build:

Code: [Select]
original
-rw-rw-r--  1 jcoalson jcoalson 2482529 Nov 30 13:24 Waiting.flac
-rw-rw-r--  1 jcoalson jcoalson 3555372 Nov 30 13:24 Waiting.wav

with flac-1.1.2
-rw-rw-r--   1 jcoalson jcoalson 2416338 Nov 30 13:24 cmp.flac

with flac-1.1.3-beta2
-rw-rw-r--   1 jcoalson jcoalson 2404616 Nov 30 13:24 cmp.flac

with flac-1.1.3
-rw-rw-r--   1 jcoalson jcoalson 2404610 Nov 30 13:24 cmp.flac


the six byte difference between beta2 and final is due to the shorter vendor string.

so I'm not able to reproduce this problem yet.

Josh
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: Egor on 2006-12-01 09:12:43
so I'm not able to reproduce this problem yet.

Well, I decoded the CD image to a wav file and then reencoded using -5 and -8 switches on an Intel Celeron D and AMD Duron processors. The problem doesn't depend on the processor type. U2's album is definitely worth buying  and is available in every music store, I believe.

1.1.3-release (reference libFLAC 1.1.3 20061120)
U2 - How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb
-5   350552343
-8   349334214

1.1.3-beta2 (reference libFLAC 1.1.3-beta2 20061016)
U2 - How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb
-5   347846199
-8   345985601


metaflac.exe --list differences (besides the seekpoints):

maximum framesize: 15977 bytes
vendor string: reference libFLAC 1.1.3-beta2 20061016

maximum framesize: 15949 bytes
vendor string: reference libFLAC 1.1.3 20061120
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: gib on 2006-12-01 11:22:52
For whatever it's worth, I just now downloaded both the 1.1.3 and 1.1.3beta2 releases and ran a test.  The test was done at a command prompt in Win2K using a cd image (Alice In Chains - Dirt) and the -8 setting.  I saw the same results as Josh; the beta2 encode was a mere 6 bytes larger than the final, due to the version string.

Edit:  Removed an unnecessary return.
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: Egor on 2006-12-01 12:25:49
Aha, got it!

The problem occurs on systems with a comma as a decimal point symbol.
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: imre_herceg on 2006-12-01 14:06:16
Aha, got it!

The problem occurs on systems with a comma as a decimal point symbol.

Are you kidding, or is this serious?

My system locale surely has comma as a decimal point symbol. But how can it affect the filesize?
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: jcoalson on 2006-12-01 18:33:54
Aha, got it!

The problem occurs on systems with a comma as a decimal point symbol.

wow, I don't know how you figured that out, but that could be the problem!

for such a system, can you try adding
Code: [Select]
-A "tukey(0,5)"
(note the comma) to the command line somewhere after the -5 and see if that improves the compression?  I think it is parsing the internally hardcoded "tukey(0.5)" incorrectly in your locale, and fails back to a rectangular window like flac-1.1.2 used.

Josh
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: skamp on 2006-12-01 18:45:07
LOL, nice find, Egor. I get the same result when using a french locale. How the hell did you figure that one out?
Josh: adding -A "tukey(0,5)" corrects the issue indeed.

While I'm at it, the xmms plugin from flac 1.1.3 doesn't work anymore. I get this error when launching xmms:
Quote
/usr/lib/libFLAC.so.8: undefined symbol: ogg_stream_pagein

The plugin gets disabled and doesn't show up in the list. Also, oggenc doesn't work anymore either, since it's linked against the old library (which isn't on my system anymore). Any patches coming up?
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: jcoalson on 2006-12-01 19:47:29
I've submitted patches to the vorbis-dev list and the package maintainters for flac-1.1.3, maybe I should put them here too.

as for the xmms plugin, did you build from source? (i'm guessing so)... you may need to explciitly link libogg, i.e. change line 67 of src/plugin_xmms/Makefile.am to
Code: [Select]
    @OGG_LIBS@ @XMMS_LIBS@ \

also line 33 to
Code: [Select]
AM_CFLAGS = @OGG_CFLAGS@ @XMMS_CFLAGS@

sorry about that.

Josh
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: goodnews on 2006-12-02 01:04:01
I've submitted patches to the vorbis-dev list and the package maintainters for flac-1.1.3, maybe I should put them here too.

Josh,

What patches are you referring to? Is there going to be a build 1.1.3a of FLAC.EXE released to fix this comma and decimal point "tukey(0.5)" encoding problem? I see Mike Wren's installer on the download page listed as flac113a.exe yet the version of FLAC.EXE inside is dated 11-26-2006 and the one inside flac-1.1.3-win.zip is dated 11-28-2006 though they have the same filesize.

Just not sure if we are to expect new Windows builds and developer builds of 1.1.3 or not. I would like to begin distributing code based on 1.1.3 but wanted to make sure a new bug release wasn't coming out soon.

Also Mike Wren's Windows installer has the FLAC Winamp plugin checked by default to be installed even though his own docs say it should not be installed for Winamp 5.31 or later. While it is nice he removed it out of the default installed stuff, still being checked by default many novice users may install it unknowingly and find their Winamp install corrupted with both Nullsoft's (native) and your 3rd party FLAC decoders installed. I think this option should definately be turned off by default (with a click option to turn it on during install instead for those running older Winamp versions who want it). Or just get rid of it entirely, like Mike did with the Foobar 2000 FLAC filter from the FLAC Windows installer package.

Thanks!
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: goodnews on 2006-12-02 02:04:45
Thanks Mike Wren for fixing this within a few minutes of me posting the above about the Windows installer 1.1.3a and the Winamp plugin problem. I see you have now posted version 1.1.3b of the Windows installer on your site for download and made reference to my post above here on Hydrogen Audio in the readme file for the installer.

Even though the Winamp boxes are still checked by default during install options, I tested, and you are correct, no Winamp plugin is being installed. This is to avoid novice users from getting 2 different FLAC decoders installed and a potential conflict in Winamp. Thanks for the fix Mike!
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: MikeW on 2006-12-02 02:24:20
Thanks Mike Wren for fixing this within a few minutes of me posting the above about the Windows installer 1.1.3a and the Winamp plugin problem. I see you have now posted version 1.1.3b of the Windows installer on your site for download and made reference to my post above here on Hydrogen Audio in the readme file for the installer.

Even though the Winamp boxes are still checked by default during install options, I tested, and you are correct, no Winamp plugin is being installed. This is to avoid novice users from getting 2 different FLAC decoders installed and a potential conflict in Winamp. Thanks for the fix Mike!


Here's the deal with the Winamp stuff...

The "lite" flavor of the latest version of Winamp doens't include the FLAC output plugin.  It doesn't contain the adware/advertising crap for eMusic, either.

However, the "full" flavor of Winamp includes FLAC output, but also the adverts.  This presents a problem.

I'd prefer to distribute our own in_flac.dll for any user that doesn't already have it in their Winamp plugins directory... or, maybe better yet... force our latest supercool .dll plugin, since it will probably have more recent updates than the Winamp guys will distribute.

Thoughts?


EDIT: Worst case scenario, is the installer just overwrites the existing in_flac.dll without prejudice... the Winamp-distributed output plugin has the same filename as what we were using, so the results SHOULD be A-OK.
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: goodnews on 2006-12-02 02:29:46
Here's the deal with the Winamp stuff...

The "lite" flavor of the latest version of Winamp doens't include the FLAC output plugin.  It doesn't contain the adware/advertising crap for eMusic, either.

However, the "full" flavor of Winamp includes FLAC output, but also the adverts.  This presents a problem.

I'd prefer to distribute our own in_flac.dll for any user that doesn't already have it in their Winamp plugins directory... or, maybe better yet... force our latest supercool .dll plugin, since it will probably have more recent updates than the Winamp guys will distribute.

Thoughts?

I use Winamp Pro so I don't get the adverts. The Winamp developer (benski?) is very active here on HA and regularly updates his Ogg stuff when new versions are released, so I think he will come out soon with a 1.1.3 FLAC update of the Nullsoft native FLAC decoder. I think you should still make your decoder available (does it support Winamp's ML Media Library? as the previous version didn't I believe). Just not make it checked on by default in the FLAC Windows Installer... Sound good? That way if a person gets the lite Winamp they can install it by clicking on it, and those with the Full or Pro versions of Winamp won't get a plugin installed by mistake that they don't want installed. Let me know.
EDIT: Worst case scenario, is the installer just overwrites the existing in_flac.dll without prejudice... the Winamp-distributed output plugin has the same filename as what we were using, so the results SHOULD be A-OK.

I believe this is WRONG to overwrite Nullsoft's FLAC decoder. I guess that's what just happened to mine without me knowing about it. I like Nullsoft's FLAC decoder as it works with their media library (ML) and playlists fine. I don't want a third party FLAC decoder replacing the official Winamp FLAC decoder thank you... Just turn the option off by default please on the install window and let a person check the box if they really want your FLAC decoder plugin. Otherwise don't overwrite the existing one... that is bad programming etiquette I believe. I spent many years doing usability testing for software, so I wanted to help out here with my comments about FLAC. As if you haven't guessed it already, I am a big fan of FLAC.

By the way Mike, do you mind if I distribute your flac113x.exe Windows installer bundle from my server/site (http://www.flac.org), or do you want all downloads to go through your server? Thanks.
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: MikeW on 2006-12-02 02:42:38

Here's the deal with the Winamp stuff...

The "lite" flavor of the latest version of Winamp doens't include the FLAC output plugin.  It doesn't contain the adware/advertising crap for eMusic, either.

However, the "full" flavor of Winamp includes FLAC output, but also the adverts.  This presents a problem.

I'd prefer to distribute our own in_flac.dll for any user that doesn't already have it in their Winamp plugins directory... or, maybe better yet... force our latest supercool .dll plugin, since it will probably have more recent updates than the Winamp guys will distribute.

Thoughts?

I use Winamp Pro so I don't get the adverts. The Winamp developer (benski?) is very active here on HA and regularly updates his Ogg stuff when new versions are released, so I think he will come out soon with a 1.1.3 FLAC update of the Nullsoft native FLAC decoder. I think you should still make your decoder available (does it support Winamp's ML Media Library? as the previous version didn't I believe). Just not make it checked on by default in the FLAC Windows Installer... Sound good? That way if a person gets the lite Winamp they can install it by clicking on it, and those with the Full or Pro versions of Winamp won't get a plugin installed by mistake that they don't want installed. Let me know.
EDIT: Worst case scenario, is the installer just overwrites the existing in_flac.dll without prejudice... the Winamp-distributed output plugin has the same filename as what we were using, so the results SHOULD be A-OK.

I believe this is WRONG to overwrite Nullsoft's FLAC decoder. I guess that's what just happened to mine without me knowing about it. I like Nullsoft's FLAC decoder as it works with their media library (ML) and playlists fine. I don''t want a third party FLAC decoder replacing the official Winamp FLAC decoder thank you... Just turn the option off by default please on the install window and let a person check the box if they really want your FLAC decoder plugin. Otherwise don't overwrite the existing one... that is bad programming etiquette I believe.


You're right, it is bad etiquette... and I wasn't aware that the FLAC-distributed output plugin didn't play nice with WinAmp's media library.

My goal is to make an idiot-proof installer that will get FLAC Frontend and the WinAmp FLAC plugin installed on a user's PC without having to check/uncheck any boxes.  I'll work on making the installer more smart about detecting the version and author of in_flac.dll... but it make take a bit more work than what I get done tonight.  In the meantime, I'll leave Windows Installer v1.1.3b online, as it won't overwrite an existing in_flac.dll.
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: goodnews on 2006-12-02 02:48:24
You're right, it is bad etiquette... and I wasn't aware that the FLAC-distributed output plugin didn't play nice with WinAmp's media library.

My goal is to make an idiot-proof installer that will get FLAC Frontend and the WinAmp FLAC plugin installed on a user's PC without having to check/uncheck any boxes.  I'll work on making the installer more smart about detecting the version and author of in_flac.dll... but it make take a bit more work than what I get done tonight.  In the meantime, I'll leave Windows Installer v1.1.3b online, as it won't overwrite an existing in_flac.dll.

Thanks for all your hard-work in helping to promote FLAC. We'll get this figured out to be the best possible for all FLAC users (newbies and pros alike). Your FLAC installer is a blessing to many, and I just wanted to give you some input to make it the best possible from a user's perspective...

Let me know please if it is OK for me to take some load of your servers by distributing unmodified copies of your Flac Windows installer to my FLAC site's visitors. I have a dedicated server sitting around not doing much
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: MikeW on 2006-12-02 02:49:11
By the way Mike, do you mind if I distribute your flac113x.exe Windows installer bundle from my server/site (http://www.flac.org), or do you want all downloads to go through your server? Thanks.


I'd prefer that all downloads be directed through the main link for the Windows Installer on the FLAC project page, as this allows me to compile and implement new installer versions with the greatest of ease.
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: goodnews on 2006-12-02 02:52:27
I'd prefer that all downloads be directed through the main link for the Windows Installer on the FLAC project page, as this allows me to compile and implement new installer versions with the greatest of ease.

No problem. Will link to your download main link then. I think your flac113b.exe solution is good, since you said it won't overwrite an existing FLAC plugin (be it Winamp's own (Nullsoft's) or another like Michael Facquet's FLAC plugins).

Don't know who manages these other 'mirrors' that are also linked to from the FLAC main download page, but they still have the old flac113a.exe version that needs to be updated to flac113b.exe:

http://downloads.sourceforge.net/flac/flac...ror=superb-west (http://downloads.sourceforge.net/flac/flac113a.exe?use_mirror=superb-west)

http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.p...ackage_id=12675 (http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=13478&package_id=12675)
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: jcoalson on 2006-12-02 06:09:16
I'd prefer that all downloads be directed through the main link for the Windows Installer on the FLAC project page, as this allows me to compile and implement new installer versions with the greatest of ease.

No problem. Will link to your download main link then. I think your flac113b.exe solution is good, since you said it won't overwrite an existing FLAC plugin (be it Winamp's own (Nullsoft's) or another like Michael Facquet's FLAC plugins).

Don't know who manages these other 'mirrors' that are also linked to from the FLAC main download page, but they still have the old flac113a.exe version that needs to be updated to flac113b.exe:

http://downloads.sourceforge.net/flac/flac...ror=superb-west (http://downloads.sourceforge.net/flac/flac113a.exe?use_mirror=superb-west)

http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.p...ackage_id=12675 (http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=13478&package_id=12675)

I'm mirroring on sourceforge as an alternate link for the rare event that the main link goes down.  sourceforge has a bunch of mirrors and bandwidth.

updated now.  I'll make an official announcement thread.

Josh
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: skamp on 2006-12-02 08:28:39
as for the xmms plugin, did you build from source? (i'm guessing so)... you may need to explciitly link libogg, i.e. change line 67 of src/plugin_xmms/Makefile.am to
Code: [Select]
    @OGG_LIBS@ @XMMS_LIBS@ \

also line 33 to
Code: [Select]
AM_CFLAGS = @OGG_CFLAGS@ @XMMS_CFLAGS@

It doesn't help, the problem remains the same.
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: Egor on 2006-12-02 08:28:39
I think it is parsing the internally hardcoded "tukey(0.5)" incorrectly in your locale, and fails back to a rectangular window like flac-1.1.2 used.

I noticed the decimal point problem since your public "apodization" test. When the first beta of 1.1.3 was released, I tested it against -A "tukey(0,5)", and there was no problem at all. Obviously, somewhere between beta 2 (20061016) and the 20061120 release something was changed, so the hardcoded "tukey(0.5)" wasn't OK anymore.
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: goodnews on 2006-12-02 09:18:04
updated now.  I'll make an official announcement thread.

Josh

Thanks Josh for everything you do, and also thanks to Mike Wren for his work on the Windows installer. Thanks also for agreeing to do a formal annnouncement thread -- this beta one gotten a bit long

BTW Josh, I posted http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....st&p=452975 (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=49182&view=findpost&p=452975) with some modified incorrect URLs and some new FLAC supporting apps. Not sure if you saw that. Would be nice to have these added/corrected on the download.html page on the site (and inside the distro). Thanks again.

Also wanted to let everyone know I just posted a new thread (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=50669&view=findpost&p=453810) about the new version of the Adobe Audition filter that supports FLAC version 1.1.3.

I posted a new thead on the Winamp forum (http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2073855#post2073855) requesting FLAC 1.1.3 support in their FLAC decoder including support for diplaying/editing Album Art tags and song Lyrics. Sent an E-mail to Florian at MP3TAG requesting FLAC 1.1.3 support for tagging.
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: jcoalson on 2006-12-02 19:31:22
BTW Josh, I posted http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....st&p=452975 (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=49182&view=findpost&p=452975) with some modified incorrect URLs and some new FLAC supporting apps. Not sure if you saw that. Would be nice to have these added/corrected on the download.html page on the site (and inside the distro). Thanks again.

ok, fixed on website

as for the xmms plugin, did you build from source? (i'm guessing so)... you may need to explciitly link libogg, i.e. change line 67 of src/plugin_xmms/Makefile.am to
Code: [Select]
    @OGG_LIBS@ @XMMS_LIBS@ \

also line 33 to
Code: [Select]
AM_CFLAGS = @OGG_CFLAGS@ @XMMS_CFLAGS@

It doesn't help, the problem remains the same.

hmm, did 'make' also cause automake to be run to update Makefile.in, then configure to generate Makefile?  sometimes it doesn't and you have to rerun those manually.  but I will keep looking into it.

Josh
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: skamp on 2006-12-02 19:52:25
hmm, did 'make' also cause automake to be run to update Makefile.in, then configure to generate Makefile?  sometimes it doesn't and you have to rerun those manually.  but I will keep looking into it.

I ran ./autogen.sh after patching, it worked! Thank you!
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: user on 2006-12-07 11:02:26
This Post & test is about the "final" flac 1.1.3 ,
FLAC_vendor = reference libFLAC 1.1.3 20061120
[/i]



ok, as promised in the other flac 113 topic in flac forum,
I made some tests on my non-UK-WindowsXP/"German general setup",
for time reasons I selected randomly only one short a capella song,
from album Oslo of 1995 made by 6-Zylinder,
song 09 , Das Sandmaennchen , 57 seconds (incl pregap)
16 bit stereo, 44.1 kHz

it compresses by flac 112 in -8 -V to 760 kbit/s.

Also for time reason I compressed only to my preferred setting -8 / --best :

Comparisons:

flac 113 -8 -V  761 !! -> bigger than flac 112 with same settings....
flac 113 -8 -A tukey(0.5)  -V 761 !!
flac 113 -8 -A tukey(0,5)  -V 738 -> nice, but what a custom switch..

flac 113 made by Case -8 -V 738 -> very nice, but no offical download from flac page
flac 113 made by Case -8 -A tukey(0.5)  -V 738
flac 113 made by Case -8 -A tukey(0,5)  -V 738

Remark:
All above test files with identical above given bitrate, are also bit-identical tested by Windows-Commander32s bit-compare function.



addon test:
Juli - 01 - Dieses Leben , 4:34 min:s
flac 112 -8 -V 983
flac 113 -8 -V 983
flac 113Case -8 -V 975 -> 112 is 0.8% bigger, nice result

Also important, that decodes to wav of all Juli encodings resulted to same wav, bit identical.

Nice:

- On this non-representative test file, flac 112 -8 is 0.8%-3% bigger than flac 113 -8 , excellent progress of FLAC 1.1.3 !
- Adding  -A tukey(0,5) is necessary to circumvent the bug of flac 113, to benefit of the progress of the 113 compared to 112. Otherwise, 113 produces even slightly bigger or same filesizes than 112. 2 days ago a friend, who had read and written in past even at HA, told me, flac113 would be bigger in size than 112, he would not use 113, there you are...  Consider, please: Is flac 113 a good release for the broad public and flacs own repuatation?
- Case's flac 113 works fool proof. Nice.
Possible solution: Offer case's flac compile at the offical flac page instead of current bugged 113, maybe with other version number like 1.1.3.1, or better 1.1.4 so that people outside update from 113 to 114/113Case as soon as possible, to avoid bigger encodes than necessary, and the resulted confusion about flac ?
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: skamp on 2006-12-08 14:15:55
I've submitted patches to the vorbis-dev list and the package maintainters for flac-1.1.3, maybe I should put them here too.

Those (http://lists.xiph.org/pipermail/vorbis-dev/2006-October/018561.html) three (http://lists.xiph.org/pipermail/vorbis-dev/2006-October/018565.html) patches (http://lists.xiph.org/pipermail/vorbis-dev/2006-October/018566.html) don't seem to be enough:
Quote
checking for FLAC__stream_decoder_process_single in -lFLAC... no
configure: WARNING: libFLAC missing
checking for OggFLAC__stream_decoder_new in -lOggFLAC... no
configure: WARNING: libOggFLAC missing
checking for FLAC/stream_decoder.h... yes
Quote
configure: WARNING: FLAC and/on OggFLAC libraries or headers missing, oggenc
will NOT be built with FLAC read support.
configure: WARNING: FLAC and/or OggFLAC libraries or headers missing, ogg123
will NOT be built with FLAC read support.
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: jcoalson on 2006-12-08 21:42:50
did you run autogen.sh after applying the patch?  I couldn't make a patch for configure itself.
Title: FLAC 1.1.3 beta1 available
Post by: skamp on 2006-12-08 22:08:50
Ah! It worked after running autoconf (also ran aclocal and automake before that, I don't know if that matters). FYI, there's no autogen.sh in vorbis-tools 1.1.1.
And here's the combined patch (http://pastecode.com/9683) (view (http://pastecode.com/9683) / download (http://pastecode.com/?dl=9683)).