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Topic: ReplayGain normalization mod (Read 2727 times) previous topic - next topic
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ReplayGain normalization mod

I need a really simple thing; ReplayGain to use the album_peak field when determining how much gain to apply instead of album_gain. Good old peak normalization, but with respect to the album. Which can then be combined with a user specified pre-amp.
This is essential when dealing with playlists that include both sacd tracks and regular flac/mp3s. None of the available modes offer this functionality.
First off, it would be nice if it was included as an option in the base release.
Beyond that, I suppose it would be pretty easy to create a component that adds an extra option to the default RG dropdown even with my limited programming skills.
I had a look at the replaygain code in the SDK and it seemed pretty straightforward. Problem is that I got zero experience with VS so I don't really know where to start putting it all together.
I'd appreciate any pointers towards the right direction.

Re: ReplayGain normalization mod

Reply #1 –
The source and processing modes of the ReplayGain config are defined by the SDK and the core, it's not possible as a component to add additional modes.

The RG bits in the SDK are mostly about just querying and altering the configuration and reacting to changes.

This would be more suitable as a support request, as it's not something that is possible to implement as a third party as the SDK currently stands.
Stay sane, exile.

Re: ReplayGain normalization mod

Reply #2 –
Well, that's a bummer. Thanks for the heads up.

It's quite frustrating having this powerful tool that can do advanced rms normalization but not regular peak one, when the data to do so is right there.

I suppose I could hack my way around it by editing the embedded RG tags with the desired info manually. Not so elegant.

Re: ReplayGain normalization mod

Reply #3 –
You can album peak normalize already. Just set source mode to album and processing mode to "apply gain and prevent clipping according to peak". Turn RG preamp to maximum and you have your peak normalization.

Re: ReplayGain normalization mod

Reply #4 –
Quote from: Case on
You can album peak normalize already. Just set source mode to album and processing mode to "apply gain and prevent clipping according to peak". Turn RG preamp to maximum and you have your peak normalization.

You can't preamp this way.
What I want basically is guaranteed headroom for EQ. Rock albums are meant to be loud. Jazz albums, not so much. By trying to bring them all in line, RG goes nuts with -10db or more adjustment on rock albums. Doing another -7 or whatever on top for EQ headroom, essentially kills my amp; no juice left.
And there's no other built-in DSP for pre-amping. Which means resorting to VSTs which are far from ideal. System wide EQ with Equalizer APO does not work in WASAPI. It's all becoming stupidly convoluted just because I can't do a simple peak normalization.
Anyway, if anybody on the main development team reads this, "apply gain and prevent..." is NOT equivalent to peak normalization and it's frustrating not having this option available.

Re: ReplayGain normalization mod

Reply #5 –
Peak normalization will not appear in ReplayGain menu as peaks have nothing to do with loudness. But the hacky method I described should allow you to peak normalize anything except digital silence. And if one wishes to combine that with preamp to get extra headroom it can be achieved with for example https://foobar.hyv.fi/?view=foo_dsp_amp.

Though it sounds like you should ignore the idea of peak normalization, get a new amp and just use regular ReplayGain. If you do processing like use equalizer you might even wish to turn the RG preamp slider to -6 dB and you'll never have to worry about clipping.

Re: ReplayGain normalization mod

Reply #6 –
Yeah, for my headphone processing DSP chain, I just use Amplify set to -6dB as the first in the chain. Very little chance of clipping then, but my amp still has loads of juice left after that, not a problem at all, so I second Case's idea that you just get a better amp.
 

Re: ReplayGain normalization mod

Reply #7 –
Normalizing loudness is one concept. Maximizing dynamic range is another concept. They're not exactly mutually exclusive always, but more often than not, they are.
Replaygain addresses the first one just fine. With the info at its disposal it could also be addressing the second one, but it elects not to and forces that on the user by not offering the option.

There is nothing wrong with my amp and frankly, suggesting that someone should change hardware rather than letting him do what he needs in software is something I'd expect out of Apple.

The dsp_amp Case linked finally gave me the tool I needed to essentially normalize to a specific level without resorting to VSTs, so thanks for that. It's still a bit of a hack, but at least it works. Wonder why this dsp isn't included in the main release or even listed in the main page's components list. I've been looking for something like that and never found it till you gave me this link.

Re: ReplayGain normalization mod

Reply #8 –
Quote from: stej on
Normalizing loudness is one concept. Maximizing dynamic range is another concept. They're not exactly mutually exclusive always, but more often than not, they are.
Replaygain addresses the first one just fine. With the info at its disposal it could also be addressing the second one, but it elects not to and forces that on the user by not offering the option.

You select either track or album gain as the source mode and the "apply gain and prevent clipping according to the peak" option.
Slide the "with replay gain" preamp to +20dB.
The volume will be adjusted to the standard ReplayGain volume, plus 20dB, or until the peaks are at maximum, whichever comes first. Unless you have unusual audio tracks, the peaks will reach maximum before the full 20dB boost can be applied and the volume won't be increased any further.

How it that not peak normalisation?