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Topic: Replaygain or not to replaygain? (Read 32587 times) previous topic - next topic
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Replaygain or not to replaygain?

Reply #75 –
Quote from: puntloos on
The thing I have a problem with is this:

IF an album comes out below the goal RMS (say the album RMS is -20dB and the goal RMS is -10dB), then the replaygain player will 'turn up the volume'. Great, until you realise the sporadic peaks would be amplified over 0dB, i.e. clipping. Oops, well then hard limiting is engaged, compressing that specific peak. To me, this compression is totally unacceptable. One can debate if, and how well you can hear this effect, but call me an audiophile, Id prefer it not to happen if I can help it.



FWIW I have some 900 CDs worth of FLAC files on a hard drive (old and new rock, jazz, classical), all of them a played with foobar 2K using album replaygain, with clipping detection on but NOT using clip correction, and thus I can report that the number of time RPG sends playback into clipping (i.e, pops up the 'clipping detected' window) is relatively *miniscule*.  It's not a problem worth being anal about IME.

Replaygain or not to replaygain?

Reply #76 –
Quote from: puntloos on
Quote from: Mike Giacomelli on

Replaygain is not a limiter.

No, the player using the replaygain data will need to use a limiter. That, or do it like i suggested, which is amplify the album to make the highest album peak exactly hit 0dB, no more.

Wrong again. No, it is still not a limiter. Have you tried switching on "clipping prevention?" It scales down the tracks if needed.

Replaygain or not to replaygain?

Reply #77 –
It's probably been proposed somewhere before, but I wonder if replaygain (e.g. in foobar) should offer the option of only ever *trimming* level where indicated (negative RPG values) , but never boosting level (ignoring postiive RPG values).  The vast majority of rock/pop releases seem to require trimming rather than boosting anyway.  This would also avoid the issue that occurs when using track gain (rather than album gain) , where something like the quiet opening track of "Dark Side of the Moon" gets boosted to ridiculous levels.

Replaygain or not to replaygain?

Reply #78 –
isn't it the boost/trimming relative to the whole track (or album if in album mode)? i don't understand what you say.

Replaygain or not to replaygain?

Reply #79 –
Quote
FWIW I have some 900 CDs worth of FLAC files on a hard drive (old and new rock, jazz, classical), all of them a played with foobar 2K using album replaygain, with clipping detection on but NOT using clip correction, and thus I can report that the number of time RPG sends playback into clipping (i.e, pops up the 'clipping detected' window) is relatively *miniscule*.  It's not a problem worth being anal about IME.


FLAC files do not clip!

Replaygain or not to replaygain?

Reply #81 –
Quote from: kwanbis on
isn't it the boost/trimming relative to the whole track (or album if in album mode)? i don't understand what you say.



Nor I, you.

 


Replaygain can boost the level of a track, or more rarely (at least for rock) a whole album.  In either case that *can* result in clipping.  In the case of track gain it can also mean that a track that's mostly quiet (like the opening track of Dark Side) will sound bizarrely loud.  (I suppose that could also happen with album gain, if the whole album is very quiet).

The boosting or trim is relative to its 'native' (recorded) level.  Zero boost or trim means the track (or album) is output at the level it was recorded.  The 'target' level achived by boost or trim is built-in to replaygain  --  it's 89 dB SPL  (the RMS value after virtual application of 'equal loudness filters'  -- these filters are not applied to the actual output, they're just used to calculate 'equality' in a psychoacoustics-approved fashion)


("FLAC files do not clip?"  Someone's been hitting the crack pipe.)

Replaygain or not to replaygain?

Reply #82 –
Quote from: pest on
FLAC files do not clip!


What was probably meant was:  "Encoding with FLAC and other lossless encoders will never change, add or remove clipping; unlike what can sometimes occur with some lossy encoders.".

-brendan

Replaygain or not to replaygain?

Reply #84 –
Quote
It doesn't make it any less funny!


i hope you know that this was intended 

Replaygain or not to replaygain?

Reply #86 –
Replay gain is very nice. With replaygain tags I use 0dB preamp, without tags -10dB. That ensures that (most) tracks without replaygain info don't sound louder than tracks with RG info.