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Topic: Meridian Audio's new... sub-format called MQA. (Read 147010 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Meridian Audio's new... sub-format called MQA.

Reply #350 –
Quote from: 2Bdecided on
Quote from: krabapple on
He's apparently saying they went back to the original digital recording and, using the original ADC as a guide,  'reverse engineered out' anything he deemed was distortion due to the ADC. 

IOW, a fancy version of noise modelling+denoising, which we know audiophiles just love, right?
Correcting phase and amplitude errors in the frequency response of the ADC is a straightforward linear process, and if done correctly would make the result more objectively correct.

Yes, but are those normally in need of correcting? Are ADCs often that flawed?

Re: Meridian Audio's new... sub-format called MQA.

Reply #351 –
Quote from: KozmoNaut on
Quote from: Thad E Ginathom on
Quote from: KozmoNaut on
... ... ... I have no idea who Peter Jasz is, but he seems extremely invested in MQA.
He seems extremely interested in you! :o

If you read through his Disqus comment history, he's a very hotheaded audiophile true believer with very little social grace. He goes straight for the insults every time.

He's a nutter.

Re: Meridian Audio's new... sub-format called MQA.

Reply #354 –
Quote from: Wombat on
Some comprehensive analysis and thoughts about MQA working. Archimago does measurements of audioquest-dragonfly-black

I like Archimago and post on his forum, but the relevance of what he finds is limited by the fact that there don't seem to be any reliable listening tests to back it up. Many of the things he tests are among the easiest kinds of things to DBT.

Since I'm 70 and suffering from additional  neural damage related to the extensive chemotherapy that was part of  my recent (apparently successful) bout with Stage 3 colorectal cancer, this is a game I can't directly help with. 

Most of his measured results seem to relate to things that I wouldn't expect to sound much different, one way or the other.


Re: Meridian Audio's new... sub-format called MQA.

Reply #355 –
Archimago provided some samples for MQA blind tests.
http://archimago.blogspot.hk/2017/07/internet-blind-test-mqa-core-decoding.html

But I found some problems in the samples. Read the comment section, I posted under another nickname with an ABX log. Other members here can also download the samples to find potential problems in order to make the test more reliable.

Re: Meridian Audio's new... sub-format called MQA.

Reply #356 –
Nice finding. Still it will be interesting how many select the godlike deblurred one correctly in the end. I doubt many will submit abx logs.
Is troll-adiposity coming from feederism?
With 24bit music you can listen to silence much louder!

Re: Meridian Audio's new... sub-format called MQA.

Reply #357 –
This audio business never disappoints.
When your hardware lacks MQA decoding just beat the opponents with their own weapons. Use some upsample magic and tell your customers what to hear.
digitalaudioreview mqas-missing-link
SoX upsampling the crippped in bits MQA file without restoring any origami hidden HF content to a file sounding as perfectly good as the DXD original so better as MQA!
It sure will be fun to watch the smearfilterringingblur dominating high-end business in the future :)
Is troll-adiposity coming from feederism?
With 24bit music you can listen to silence much louder!

Re: Meridian Audio's new... sub-format called MQA.

Reply #358 –
Quote from: Wombat on
Nice finding. Still it will be interesting how many select the godlike deblurred one correctly in the end. I doubt many will submit abx logs.
Regardless of the results, after the test expired and Archimago revealed the answers, people can always leave a comment in his blog and say they knew File B was real MQA because of the air, the realism, the inner details blah blah blah...

Re: Meridian Audio's new... sub-format called MQA.

Reply #359 –
Quote from: bennetng on
Regardless of the results, after the test expired and Archimago revealed the answers, people can always leave a comment in his blog and say they knew File B was real MQA because of the air, the realism, the inner details blah blah blah...
Absolutely. The comments section already has some pearls like 'MQA does best with pre 1960 recordings' ;)
Is troll-adiposity coming from feederism?
With 24bit music you can listen to silence much louder!

Re: Meridian Audio's new... sub-format called MQA.

Reply #360 –
Quote from: Wombat on
This audio business never disappoints.
When your hardware lacks MQA decoding just beat the opponents with their own weapons. Use some upsample magic and tell your customers what to hear.
digitalaudioreview mqas-missing-link
SoX upsampling the crippped in bits MQA file without restoring any origami hidden HF content to a file sounding as perfectly good as the DXD original so better as MQA!
It sure will be fun to watch the smearfilterringingblur dominating high-end business in the future :)

Is it really this easy to unfold the mess?

Re: Meridian Audio's new... sub-format called MQA.

Reply #361 –
Quote from: Wombat on
digitalaudioreview mqas-missing-link
SoX upsampling the crippped in bits MQA file without restoring any origami hidden HF content to a file sounding as perfectly good as the DXD original so better as MQA!
Interesting. Though the previous article on that site about the "sound" of audiophile USB cables was funnier.
Loudspeaker manufacturer

Re: Meridian Audio's new... sub-format called MQA.

Reply #362 –
Quote from: ron spencer on
Quote from: Wombat on
This audio business never disappoints.
When your hardware lacks MQA decoding just beat the opponents with their own weapons. Use some upsample magic and tell your customers what to hear.
digitalaudioreview mqas-missing-link
SoX upsampling the crippped in bits MQA file without restoring any origami hidden HF content to a file sounding as perfectly good as the DXD original so better as MQA!
It sure will be fun to watch the smearfilterringingblur dominating high-end business in the future :)

Is it really this easy to unfold the mess?

Remember that the whole article reads like the usual Placebophile...

Re: Meridian Audio's new... sub-format called MQA.

Reply #363 –
I always thought you paid more for MQA so the little light would turn on.

Re: Meridian Audio's new... sub-format called MQA.

Reply #364 –
Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
Quote from: ron spencer on
Quote from: Wombat on
This audio business never disappoints.
When your hardware lacks MQA decoding just beat the opponents with their own weapons. Use some upsample magic and tell your customers what to hear.
digitalaudioreview mqas-missing-link
SoX upsampling the crippped in bits MQA file without restoring any origami hidden HF content to a file sounding as perfectly good as the DXD original so better as MQA!
It sure will be fun to watch the smearfilterringingblur dominating high-end business in the future :)

Is it really this easy to unfold the mess?

Remember that the whole article reads like the usual Placebophile...

So I think I will try this test on my own using their methodology, I have already downloaded the files. I guess after I convert the MQA one in SoX I should get my wife to rename the files and keep a record of what they are without me seeing. Then I can listen. Not fully scientific, but I guess it will do.

Re: Meridian Audio's new... sub-format called MQA.

Reply #365 –
Quote from: ron spencer on
So I think I will try this test on my own using their methodology, I have already downloaded the files. I guess after I convert the MQA one in SoX I should get my wife to rename the files and keep a record of what they are without me seeing. Then I can listen. Not fully scientific, but I guess it will do.
You upsample with minimum phase, very steep filter without restoring the lower bits or the encrypted HF portion.
A negative abx may tell you MQA is never needed to begin with and DXD is also worthless. Good luck!
All this reasoning of the article is pretty weird imho.
Is troll-adiposity coming from feederism?
With 24bit music you can listen to silence much louder!

Re: Meridian Audio's new... sub-format called MQA.

Reply #366 –
Quote from: Wombat on
Quote from: ron spencer on
So I think I will try this test on my own using their methodology, I have already downloaded the files. I guess after I convert the MQA one in SoX I should get my wife to rename the files and keep a record of what they are without me seeing. Then I can listen. Not fully scientific, but I guess it will do.
You upsample with minimum phase, very steep filter without restoring the lower bits or the encrypted HF portion.
A negative abx may tell you MQA is never needed to begin with and DXD is also worthless. Good luck!
All this reasoning of the article is pretty weird imho.


Well I did as the article said, and had my wife use a random file name generator on them. From a casual listening perspective, I could not hear any differences. Using Focal headphones or Sennheiser IEMs on FiioX5 G3.

I figured I would try to ABX via foobar, but I get the "critical ABX error The parameter is incorrect.   (0x80070057)". I can play these files fine, but as soon as I choose any Play Button the error pops up. Doesn't happen for DSD files or any other flac/pcm. Any way to fix this?

Re: Meridian Audio's new... sub-format called MQA.

Reply #367 –
So far undecoded MQA sounds like DXD when upsampled to you. This means low bit, standard samplerate done correctly sounds like DXD.
Can't help with that foobar error but try linear standard SoX upsampling please and try again.
Is troll-adiposity coming from feederism?
With 24bit music you can listen to silence much louder!

Re: Meridian Audio's new... sub-format called MQA.

Reply #368 –
So used the following to upsample

Quote
sox -S 2L-087_06_stereo_DXD_FLAC.mqa.flac MQA_upsampled.flac rate -vsL 352800

Note the L by the -vsL, as opposed to the M from the original link.

It still sounds good to me. Damn good. I really can't hear any differences, even in the silent fade outs.  Very good.

I would like to do a proper ABX test, but the ABX Comparator does not like DXD files, even though Foobar will play them; stupid error. If anyone knows a fix I'd like to ABX properly. In any case though, the linear upsampled MQA to DXD sounds awesome and I can't seem to tell the difference from the ORIGINAL DXD file I downloaded.

Re: Meridian Audio's new... sub-format called MQA.

Reply #369 –
What if I downsampled the original DXD file to 192/24, then upsampled the MQA to 192/24 (to avoid the crashing of the ABX plugin with DXD files), and then use the Foobar ABX test. Would this tell us anything?

So odd that pcm and DSD will ABX fine with the plugin and not DXD.

Re: Meridian Audio's new... sub-format called MQA.

Reply #370 –
The ABX component doesn't crash. You get the error from Windows as the maximum sample rate supported by DirectSound is 200 kHz. When you play tracks like this outside ABX session foobar2000 automatically enables a resampler to allow playback without errors.

Your workaround suggestion of resampling all files to 192 kHz is valid. You could also keep the files as they are and add a resampler to your foobar2000 playback chain and tick the "Use DSP" checkbox in the ABX component.

Re: Meridian Audio's new... sub-format called MQA.

Reply #371 –
Quote from: ron spencer on
I would like to do a proper ABX test, but the ABX Comparator does not like DXD files, even though Foobar will play them; stupid error. If anyone knows a fix I'd like to ABX properly. In any case though, the linear upsampled MQA to DXD sounds awesome and I can't seem to tell the difference from the ORIGINAL DXD file I downloaded.
We shouldn't make the conclusion one needs upsampling to get good sound. We have enough of this nonsense in other forums.
When i think about the findings you made so far i guess the only thing that becomes clear is todays resampling is transparent.
Is troll-adiposity coming from feederism?
With 24bit music you can listen to silence much louder!

Re: Meridian Audio's new... sub-format called MQA.

Reply #372 –
Quote from: Wombat on
Quote from: ron spencer on
I would like to do a proper ABX test, but the ABX Comparator does not like DXD files, even though Foobar will play them; stupid error. If anyone knows a fix I'd like to ABX properly. In any case though, the linear upsampled MQA to DXD sounds awesome and I can't seem to tell the difference from the ORIGINAL DXD file I downloaded.
We shouldn't make the conclusion one needs upsampling to get good sound. We have enough of this nonsense in other forums.
When i think about the findings you made so far i guess the only thing that becomes clear is todays resampling is transparent.

Yah I understand about reaching for conclusions, but once the work day is over I am going to try this. I really am astounded as to just how good the upsampled MQA file is when comparing to the original DXD file. At least from my ears. Not sure what value I would get from MQA then.

Re: Meridian Audio's new... sub-format called MQA.

Reply #373 –
You listen to upsampled PCM, not MQA.
Quote from: ron spencer on
I really am astounded as to just how good the upsampled MQA file is when comparing to the original DXD file. At least from my ears. Not sure what value I would get from MQA then.
Like it should sound with any correct downsampled version of the DXD file without MQA.
Is troll-adiposity coming from feederism?
With 24bit music you can listen to silence much louder!

Re: Meridian Audio's new... sub-format called MQA.

Reply #374 –
Seems like more vendors of hard and software that are not certified start to claim MQA sounds better as everything before with their own way of handling it. The main reason seems to come from not to loose potential buyers to MQA certified vendors.
Still this whole happening is facinating. People that already suffer of the 'fear of ringing' are happy to expand their psychogram with the newest ache 'phantom blur'
There is no cure but MQA!
Is troll-adiposity coming from feederism?
With 24bit music you can listen to silence much louder!