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Topic: "DVD-A vs. CD" & "Nyquist was Wrong" (Read 34212 times) previous topic - next topic
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"DVD-A vs. CD" & "Nyquist was Wrong"

Reply #25
tigre,

Since you were interested in my 24bit/96kHz recordings over at Head-Fi, I thought I would upload a fresh (and cleaner) recording of myself pouring a glass of water.  It is recorded using an AT 3035 LD-condensor mic into a Grace Lunatec V3 (which is a high-end 2-channel mic-preamp/ADC) at true 24bit/96kHz into CEP. 

I didn't use any dynamic processing except to remove a constant noise in the background using CEP's Noise Reduction (I didn't use this on the clips over at Head-Fi).  When I listend to the "Noise Only," I could barely hear the water pouring . . . so, I went ahead and applied it.  If anyone would like the raw recording, I'd be happy to upload that as well.

"DVD-A vs. CD" & "Nyquist was Wrong"

Reply #26
Thanks, Douglas 256.

To save bandwith, I replace your .wav sample with a mokey's audio version.

I upload your four samples from the head-fi thread here (compressed with mokey's audio, zipped to 1 file).
Let's suppose that rain washes out a picnic. Who is feeling negative? The rain? Or YOU? What's causing the negative feeling? The rain or your reaction? - Anthony De Mello

"DVD-A vs. CD" & "Nyquist was Wrong"

Reply #27
I've created an oggpreview file (1.1MB) of all *music* samples I uploaded. This could help to save bandwith.
Let's suppose that rain washes out a picnic. Who is feeling negative? The rain? Or YOU? What's causing the negative feeling? The rain or your reaction? - Anthony De Mello

"DVD-A vs. CD" & "Nyquist was Wrong"

Reply #28
Wow... I'm surprised, but I tried abxing that sample of Water being poured into a glass, and I couldn't do it successfully.  I'm using an M-Audio Transit 24/96 at the highest sampling rate settings, and I converted one sample into 44.1 using the SSRC resampler, and told the diskwriter to convert the file to 16 bit.  I'm listening on some very nice Etymotic ER-4P earphones.

Of course, before testing, I turned off the resampler from DSPs.  I really can't consistently tell a difference.  Should I be able to, or is there only a select minority of the population that has hearing good enough to be able to tell the difference?  I'm just wondering if something is wrong with my setup, perhaps.  Maybe I'll try again with my M-Audio Firewire 410, which should have a bit better sound quality.

"DVD-A vs. CD" & "Nyquist was Wrong"

Reply #29
Why did you expect to hear a difference?

IIRC only one person has ever managed to positively ABX 44.1 against something higher.

Cheers,
David.

"DVD-A vs. CD" & "Nyquist was Wrong"

Reply #30
Wow... really?

Sure I expected to hear a difference.  For years I've heard audiophiles lament that the quality of CDs pales in comparison to vinyl because the digital signal lacks sufficient resolution to properly convey the equivalent detail, and of course, there is excitement in some circles about DVD-A because of the superior quality of the audio.
Also, I was working on a computer at a music studio once, and I had mistakenly set the output of the soundcard to 44.1KHz, when the source material was at 48KHz.  The studio engineer listened to some music for a few seconds and said "Something's wrong here..."  He knew that the sampling rate was too low, but I couldn't hear a difference. (Maybe it was because resampling degraded the signal quality or something though)

I've never actually tested it for myself until now.  I guess they *did* know what they were doing when they developed redbook.  I imagined, at first, that I could hear greater detail in the high frequencies, but I couldn't even ABX it.

"DVD-A vs. CD" & "Nyquist was Wrong"

Reply #31
Quote
Wow... I'm surprised, but I tried abxing that sample of Water being poured into a glass, and I couldn't do it successfully.  I'm using an M-Audio Transit 24/96 at the highest sampling rate settings, and I converted one sample into 44.1 using the SSRC resampler, and told the diskwriter to convert the file to 16 bit.  I'm listening on some very nice Etymotic ER-4P earphones.

Of course, before testing, I turned off the resampler from DSPs.  I really can't consistently tell a difference.  Should I be able to, or is there only a select minority of the population that has hearing good enough to be able to tell the difference?  I'm just wondering if something is wrong with my setup, perhaps.  Maybe I'll try again with my M-Audio Firewire 410, which should have a bit better sound quality.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=287898"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

A bit better. Try the E-MU cards or an external DAC and a good amp. Unfortunately the ER-4P is very sensitive, so you might have issues with noise. Certainly with the Transit there must be a lot of noise.

 

"DVD-A vs. CD" & "Nyquist was Wrong"

Reply #32
I don't yet have an amp, but I probably will find one in the near future, just for the sake of trying things out.

The Firewire 410 was rated as the third best external audio interface over at head-fi.org
http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=112165

I'd presume it'd be good.  Incidentally, I do get a small amount of noise on silence with the FW410 when the headphone output volume is maxed, but I don't hear anything on the Transit.  The transit sounds really clean, and I can't hear any noise, but maybe if I compared with the FW410 I'd hear something in very quiet tracks, because the SNR *is* better on the 410.

I probably won't be buying an E-MU or Focusrite card (the two brands above the M-Audio FW410) in the near future, at least because... well... that's a lot of money for something I've already got!

The amp might be a good idea though.  I'm guessing I'll have to drop about $300 for something reasonably high quality.

"DVD-A vs. CD" & "Nyquist was Wrong"

Reply #33
Quote
IIRC only one person has ever managed to positively ABX 44.1 against something higher.[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=288208"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I must have missed this news.. anyone have a link?

"DVD-A vs. CD" & "Nyquist was Wrong"

Reply #34
Quote
I don't yet have an amp, but I probably will find one in the near future, just for the sake of trying things out.

The Firewire 410 was rated as the third best external audio interface over at head-fi.org
http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=112165

I'd presume it'd be good.  Incidentally, I do get a small amount of noise on silence with the FW410 when the headphone output volume is maxed, but I don't hear anything on the Transit.  The transit sounds really clean, and I can't hear any noise, but maybe if I compared with the FW410 I'd hear something in very quiet tracks, because the SNR *is* better on the 410.

I probably won't be buying an E-MU or Focusrite card (the two brands above the M-Audio FW410) in the near future, at least because... well... that's a lot of money for something I've already got!

The amp might be a good idea though.  I'm guessing I'll have to drop about $300 for something reasonably high quality.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=288339"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I have experience with the Transit. It's good for the money. I'm very surprised you don't notice a noise floor. If you have a desktop the E-MU 0404 is a good cheap card. That plus a maxed PIMETA plus a ER-4 P-S converter (a resistor which makes it less sensitive and makes the impedence flatter) should be within $300.

"DVD-A vs. CD" & "Nyquist was Wrong"

Reply #35
it is a 23 second 96/24 ape sample of "voy a apagar la luz/contigo aprendi" by "luis miguel". from the dvd-audio for "romances". it was recorded from the l/r audio outputs of my toshiba sd-4900 into my esi waveterminal 2496.

http://s41.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3OIWNJ3...RI03EUDKR93GKEI

i would use the attachment feature, but the file is too big (8,176,136 bytes)
Computers hear best in Digital form. Humans hear best in Analog form. Which one are you?

 
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