HydrogenAudio

Lossless Audio Compression => Lossless / Other Codecs => Topic started by: maiki on 2020-05-01 02:33:51

Title: The oldest lossless codec?
Post by: maiki on 2020-05-01 02:33:51
I was just curious, what was the first lossless format used to store music in files? Was it WavPack in 1998? How did it all start? Since I first encountered lossless in mid 2006 (FLAC or APE cannot remember), I had for sure missed the initial wave...
Title: Re: The oldest lossless codec?
Post by: saratoga on 2020-05-01 02:40:36
Shorten is the oldest codec I remember being semi-widely used for consumer music files on PCs:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shorten_(file_format) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shorten_(file_format))
Title: Re: The oldest lossless codec?
Post by: maiki on 2020-05-01 02:47:43
Wow, 1993... That is way ahead of time.
Title: Re: The oldest lossless codec?
Post by: jaybeee on 2020-05-01 17:12:24
Comparison of audio coding formats (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_audio_coding_formats#General_information).

ATRAC - 1991

I remember Shorten and OptimFROG as earliest for me in early 2000s. Didn't realise Shorten was so old.
Title: Re: The oldest lossless codec?
Post by: The Irish Man on 2020-05-01 17:21:03
ATRAC - 1991

ATRAC was not a lossless format in 1991, I think it was the late 90's when Sony released a lossless version.
Title: Re: The oldest lossless codec?
Post by: jaybeee on 2020-05-01 17:37:53
ATRAC - 1991

ATRAC was not a lossless format in 1991, I think it was the late 90's when Sony released a lossless version.
aahh I did wonder when I looked. I just took the earliest date you see. cheers
Title: Re: The oldest lossless codec?
Post by: polemon on 2020-07-23 10:26:51
Shorten was the oldest one in circulation for dedicated audio files I've ever seen.
I've seen people sharing PCM audio files packed with Zip or other lossless data compressors earlier though, which *technically* is also "lossless audio compression".
Title: Re: The oldest lossless codec?
Post by: john33 on 2020-07-23 12:30:52
There are 32 and 64 bit compiles at Rarewares if anyone is interested in playing with it. :)
Title: Re: The oldest lossless codec?
Post by: j7n on 2020-07-23 13:32:40
Several good data compressors other than zip included "multimedia" (delta, sound, picture) compression with decent ratio, but I don't know any that came before Shorten.
Title: Re: The oldest lossless codec?
Post by: IgorC on 2020-07-23 16:09:50
Interesting that since Shorten there wasn't any revolutionary change in lossless compression of audio.
http://www.audiograaf.nl/losslesstest/Lossless%20audio%20codec%20comparison%20-%20revision%204.pdf

It's not surprise that now FLAC is pretty standard and as for the rest of  newer lossless formats it's pretty "too little too late"
Title: Re: The oldest lossless codec?
Post by: saratoga on 2020-07-23 19:33:56
Interesting that since Shorten there wasn't any revolutionary change in lossless compression of audio.
http://www.audiograaf.nl/losslesstest/Lossless%20audio%20codec%20comparison%20-%20revision%204.pdf

It's not surprise that now FLAC is pretty standard and as for the rest of  newer lossless formats it's pretty "too little too late"

Rice coding is 50 years old at this point, so barring some unlikely fundamental mathematical breakthroughs, all codecs are going to be stuck on the same compression/performance curve. 
Title: Re: The oldest lossless codec?
Post by: tehabe on 2020-07-24 09:41:35
Wouldn't be (L)PCM be the or at least one of the oldest audio codec.
Title: Re: The oldest lossless codec?
Post by: itisljar on 2020-07-25 13:36:14
I remember something like wavzip or zipwav, late 90's. Also, Monkey's Audio.
Title: Re: The oldest lossless codec?
Post by: kode54 on 2020-07-26 00:13:08
Monkey's Audio does not predate Shorten.
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