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Topic: Are non-caching drives still made? (Read 63916 times) previous topic - next topic
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Are non-caching drives still made?

Reply #50 –
Quote
...I get the opposite results, no matter what CD I have in the drive when testing the drives read features. I wonder what could be causing this.
Hmmm...  It may have something to do with the discs.

I've tried it with 4 discs, and the last one (Roger Waters' Ça Ira, in perfect condition) returned "Caching: Yes".

 

Looks like more testing is in order...

Are non-caching drives still made?

Reply #51 –
Quote
Hmmm...  It may have something to do with the discs.[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=347842"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Yes, my same conclusion (See post #43). Have you, tried wit the EAC Offset Test CD?

Sergio
Sergio
M-Audio Delta AP + Revox B150 + (JBL 4301B | Sennheiser Amperior | Sennheiser HD598)

Are non-caching drives still made?

Reply #52 –
Just got a new drive, a NEC ND 3550A DVDRW and EAC reports that it does not cache!  But on the other hand it does not have C2. 

Are non-caching drives still made?

Reply #53 –
Quote
Just got a new drive, a NEC ND 3550A DVDRW and EAC reports that it does not cache!   But on the other hand it does not have C2. 
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=349418"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


It was heard somewhere that the implementation of C2 may not be reliable, so it is better to not use it.

Sorry I forgot where I heard this, please correct me if I am wrong

Are non-caching drives still made?

Reply #54 –
I remember reading the same thing regarding C2 reporting accuracy. I used to use it with my old Plextor 12/10/32 and felt secure in it's C2 abilities, but don't think I would trust with other drives.

Are non-caching drives still made?

Reply #55 –
why does the usefua option speed up the extraction?
or better: why does it slow down the extraction when you check "drive caches audio data"? the mouseover info in eac says "eac clears the cache by overreading it". i believe that the cache of a plextor 712 is 8MB. why exactly does the clearing of 8MB cache by overreading it slow down the extraction so much ?

Are non-caching drives still made?

Reply #56 –
Just for the record:

When I first heard of this I stuck in a CD; ran EAC with -usefua; detected drive features; and lo, it said that my Plextor PX-W5224A did not cache data.

I used it a few times, and then one CD gave me (correctable) errors right at the last moment.  I ran EAC without --usefua, redetected drive features, etc., as I was still a little paranoid about being able to rip at 22x.  I still got errors (why do some discs do that right at the end?).

Anyway the point of this post: when I went to run again with -usefua EAC said that the drive cached data.  I tried a few times with different discs; Each time EAC would not pick up that the drive did not cache data.

This morning I retried with the disc I originally used, and it finally agreed that the drive doesn't cache data.

So, in conclusion, I believe that this is down to the disc you use for testing.

My dilema now is, do I trust it or not.

I'm not overly bothered about fast rips, but it may be nice to be able to rip at 22x with confidence - especially as using --usefua should assure you that the data is re-read from the disc, and not that EAC perhaps assumes that it has been re-read (using its cache-busting technology).
I'm on a horse.

Are non-caching drives still made?

Reply #58 –
I'm using FUA mode lateley (with my Plexwrier Premium) and I must say that it seems to be really OK. MUCH faster then the other way round and every test I made (also with some difficult CD) was OK. It either ripped exactly as without or when things were really bad it signaled the impossibility to rip. On the other hand I have the STRONG feeling that it puts much less stress on the drive. I have no proof but I think that a couple of Plextors that went bad in my life was due to the EAC stress (many, many seeks). With my (new) Premium I'm going to use FUA only: I want it to live for long.

Sergio
Sergio
M-Audio Delta AP + Revox B150 + (JBL 4301B | Sennheiser Amperior | Sennheiser HD598)

Are non-caching drives still made?

Reply #59 –
I guess we should start posting on the EAC forum.  As Plextor owners it would be good for André to pursue this and expose it formally, and with confidence.

Edit: I just posted to the thread Martin H kindly pointed us to.  Seems like a good a place as any.
I'm on a horse.

Are non-caching drives still made?

Reply #60 –
Quote
My dilema now is, do I trust it or not.
Quote
I'm using FUA mode lateley (with my Plexwrier Premium) and I must say that it seems to be really OK.

I've been using the "-usefua" switch regularly (with my Plextor Premium) for two months now, without incident.  The rips are always in accord with AccurateRip, and I have done many bit-compare tests - the results are always identical.  At this point, I have no problem trusting it.

Are non-caching drives still made?

Reply #61 –
Quote
I've been using the "-usefua" switch regularly (with my Plextor Premium) for two months now, without incident.  The rips are always in accord with AccurateRip, and I have done many bit-compare tests - the results are always identical.  At this point, I have no problem trusting it.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=359204"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'll add my support to that - although i haven't been using AccurateRip all bit-compare tests I've done have been identical so far. I've also successfully ripped badly damaged tracks even PlexTools couldn't help me with earlier - with matching checksums on test-and-copy and no audible flaws. After around 100 CDs I have had no problems with the switch.

Are non-caching drives still made?

Reply #62 –
Thanks for the info chaps - it's good to hear that others have compared the results.

Again, I can only suggest that people post to the EAC forum, to let André know.

That said, my post there references this thread, so maybe André will be happy to read our experiences here.
I'm on a horse.

Are non-caching drives still made?

Reply #63 –
Is 22x considered "fast" audio ripping?

Are non-caching drives still made?

Reply #64 –
It's two or three times faster than I get when using "Drive caches audio".

I see on the first page of this thead that smz quoted these values:

Code: [Select]
Drive Caches, No FUA, No C2: 7.8
No Drive Caches, FUA, No C2: 6.5
Drive Caches, No FUA, C2: 11.1
No Drive Caches, FUA, C2: 25.6

So he gets around 25x.  I have no idea how much faster other drives, made by other manufacturers, could go.

22x is certainly fast enough for me.  I'm more interested in the potential lack of stress on the drive, and the fact that EAC is rereading from  the disc "naturally", and not by employing its cache-busting technology.
I'm on a horse.

Are non-caching drives still made?

Reply #65 –
Here is my situation:
I have an old CD-burner TEAC 540E (40x). It DOES CACHE audio.
Long time ago I noticed strange behavior of red dots in error correction status window. When 'drive caches audio' flag is checked and the drive finds out a scratch on CD - after the first red dot appear there is a pause and than all the other red dots appear without pause (IMHO all but first dots are taken from cache - that's why they appear so fast).
If 'drive caches audio' (DCA) is checked there is a pause between all red dots (IMHO drive rereads from CD).


I took a clean CD and made with blue marker a dot at first track. Now while extracting I get extracting problems at about 40% of first track.

Here is behavior of those red dots with or without -USEFUA option.

TEST 1

-USEFUA - OFF
- DCA - OFF
- C2 detection - OFF

GOT CRC MISMATCH 4 times from 5 tries (no errors detected message after extraction).

Error correction (red dots) behavior:
after first dot appears there is a pause about 15 sec then other dots appear at very fast rate (all dots in <1 sec).


TEST 2

-USEFUA - OFF
- DCA - ON
- C2 detection - OFF

1st try
Got message while grabbing - 'Errors detected while grabbing'.

2nd try
Got message while grabbing - 'Errors detected while grabbing'.

3rd try
No errors detected. CRC mismathch.

4th try
No errors detected. CRC mismathch.

5th try
Got message while grabbing - 'Errors detected while grabbing'.


Error correction (red dots) behavior:
All dots appear with pause about 15 sec between them.


TEST 3

-USEFUA - ON
- DCA - OFF
- C2 detection - OFF

Extraction is very slow (about 0.4x).
Error correction (red dots) behavior:
All dots appear with pause about 15 sec between them.

1 try - got CRC mismatch.

No use of such SLOW extraction method.


TEST 4

-USEFUA - ON
- DCA - OFF
- C2 detection - ON (I never checked how precise is C2 error detection of my CD-burner. However my goal is not 'how precise it' but does it cache audio.)

Extraction speed is OK.
Error correction (red dots) behavior:
All dots appear with pause about 15 sec

1st try
Got message while grabbing - 'Errors detected while grabbing'.

2nd try
Got message while grabbing - 'Errors detected while grabbing'.


TEST 5

-USEFUA - OFF
- DCA - OFF
- C2 detection - ON

1st try
GOT CRC MISMATCH, no errors detected
Error correction (red dots) behavior:
after first dot appears there is a pause about 15 sec then other dots appear with very fast rate (all in <1 sec).


2nd try
Error correction (red dots) behavior:
after first dot appears there is a pause about 15 sec then other dots appear with very fast rate (all in <1 sec).


3rd try
Error correction (red dots) behavior:
after first dot appears there is a pause about 15 sec then other dots appear with very fast rate (all in <1 sec).
Ogg Vorbis for music and speech [q-2.0 - q6.0]
FLAC for recordings to be edited
Speex for speech

Are non-caching drives still made?

Reply #66 –
Quote
Is 22x considered "fast" audio ripping?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=360084"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I consider it to be very fast for SECURE mode CD-DA extraction.


Quote
I'm more interested in the potential lack of stress on the drive, and the fact that EAC is rereading from  the disc "naturally", and not by employing its cache-busting technology.[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=360099"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Me too! 

The speed results I got and published in the first page of this thread were from my old PX-712A, which BTW died after ripping several damaged CDs WITHOUT the -usefua option. I now own a Premium, but I'm reluctant to make many tests with it without the -usefua option. You can imagine why! (Unless Plextor "funds" me with the promise of a new Premium in case of troubles...  )


Quote
I took a clean CD and made with blue marker a dot at first track. Now while extracting I get extracting problems at about 40% of first track.

Here is behavior of those red dots with or without -USEFUA option.
...[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=360104"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Interesting test. But there is something I don't completly understand in your TEST4:

Initially you say that in it you have -usefua=ON, DCA=OFF and C2-EC=ON (which is BTW what I now think to be the natural way to use -usefua). With it you have all the dots to appear WITH a pause between them and I think this is a hint that the drive is actually re-reading form the medium, not from the cache. But you don't tell us if you get error indication using this method. Then, always within TEST4, you apparently switch to -usefua=OFF (Isn't this a TEST5??  ). The dots (after the first) appears immediatly. This is, I think, an indication that data is re-read from the cache and it is consistent with the fact that you are not using -usefua and EAC is no trying its tricks to flush the cache because you told it that the drive doesn't cache.

Cheers!

Sergio
Sergio
M-Audio Delta AP + Revox B150 + (JBL 4301B | Sennheiser Amperior | Sennheiser HD598)

Are non-caching drives still made?

Reply #67 –
wow, I cant believe I I havent heard of this switch before. I have 4 plextor drives for CD ripping. I have frequently been ripping with the "This drive chaches audio" option off when using Test&Copy. However this doesnt work with all of my plex drives ( I have 4 diff models). I also use Test&Copy is burst mode. I would love to have this option.

When adding the switch to the shortcut how does it work since I could be using different drives?

Maybe we should ask Andre to include this option in the menu, available only when the detected drive is a plextor.

Are non-caching drives still made?

Reply #68 –
Quote
When adding the switch to the shortcut how does it work since I could be using different drives?
I'm not quite sure what you mean when you ask "...how does it work...", but if you're asking what the string in the "Target" window of the shortcut properties should be, see post #34 by smz.

Are non-caching drives still made?

Reply #69 –
Quote
Quote
When adding the switch to the shortcut how does it work since I could be using different drives?
I'm not quite sure what you mean when you ask "...how does it work...", but if you're asking what the string in the "Target" window of the shortcut properties should be, see post #34 by smz.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=360379"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Yes, I realize that, but after using this command does eac pass the -usefau command on to whichever drive I use or just the drive that EAC was first targeted to when it started up?

Are non-caching drives still made?

Reply #70 –
Quote
...does eac pass the -usefau command on to whichever drive I use or just the drive that EAC was first targeted to when it started up?
I would assume that the "-usefua" switch would be applied to any drive you use, if it is loaded at EAC startup (...but you know what they say about assumptions).

Personally, I would just remove it from the shortcut target if I were going to use a drive other than Plextor.  Or, just have two shortcuts - one with the switch, and one without.

I know this isn't a very clear answer, but I'm just not sure how the switch would affect non-Plextor drives. 
However, in post #2:
Quote
...it is said to be working only with Plextor drives at the moment.

Are non-caching drives still made?

Reply #71 –
I have to say this switch is working wonderfully for me. I have tried about 20 discs with it so far with great (reliable) results, much faster speeds, and I believe at this point that it is very accurate but would like to see more formal testing/details...

Are non-caching drives still made?

Reply #72 –
Quote
Quote
I took a clean CD and made with blue marker a dot at first track. Now while extracting I get extracting problems at about 40% of first track.

Here is behavior of those red dots with or without -USEFUA option.
...[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=360104"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Interesting test. But there is something I don't completly understand in your TEST4:

Initially you say that in it you have -usefua=ON, DCA=OFF and C2-EC=ON (which is BTW what I now think to be the natural way to use -usefua). With it you have all the dots to appear WITH a pause between them and I think this is a hint that the drive is actually re-reading form the medium, not from the cache. But you don't tell us if you get error indication using this method. Then, always within TEST4, you apparently switch to -usefua=OFF (Isn't this a TEST5??  ). The dots (after the first) appears immediatly. This is, I think, an indication that data is re-read from the cache and it is consistent with the fact that you are not using -usefua and EAC is no trying its tricks to flush the cache because you told it that the drive doesn't cache.

Cheers!

Sergio
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=360138"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]



Thanks for your notes. I corrected my post. By the, what do you think:

1. Why does speed fall to 0.5x with:
-USEFUA - ON
- DCA - OFF
- C2 detection - OFF

2. I don't want to bother Andre with bullshit. Can this info be useful to Andre and how can I contact him?
Ogg Vorbis for music and speech [q-2.0 - q6.0]
FLAC for recordings to be edited
Speex for speech

Are non-caching drives still made?

Reply #73 –
My MSI XA52P is detected as non-caching. Averages like 22X without -usefua.

Are non-caching drives still made?

Reply #74 –
Quote
My MSI XA52P is detected as non-caching. Averages like 22X without -usefua.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=361204"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


In secure mode?
Sergio
M-Audio Delta AP + Revox B150 + (JBL 4301B | Sennheiser Amperior | Sennheiser HD598)