Seems the 4th gen iPods will debut Monday July 19th..
Mag Cover (http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/Sections/Newsweek/Components/Photos/mag/040726_issue/040717_COVER.jpg)
20 & 40 GB for $299 and $399 respectively.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5457434/site/newsweek/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5457434/site/newsweek/)
Click Wheel
12-hour playtime
Multiple on-the-go Playlists
Delete songs from OTG Playlists
Audiobook tempo adjustment
No more 15 gig model
$100 Cheaper
Yeah, given Apple's exagerated battery capacity in the past, I wouldn't be surprised if the 4th generation version lasts only 20 - 30% longer than the 3rd gen model, rather than the claimed 50%. But it will be interesting to see what happens when the review sites start testing them. I'm sure some sites like ipoding.com or ipodlounge will try and do accurate tests of battery capacity.
Personally the US$100 price reduction is the best 'feature' enhancement. Hopefully that means that now the 40 GB model will be available for around AUD$600 which is much more reasonable than AUD$800. It means that assuming it doesn't have any major flaws, a 4th generation 40GB iPod will be on my wish list for Christmas ;-)
Yeah, given Apple's exagerated battery capacity in the past, I wouldn't be surprised if the 4th generation version lasts only 20 - 30% longer than the 3rd gen model, rather than the claimed 50%. But it will be interesting to see what happens when the review sites start testing them. I'm sure some sites like ipoding.com or ipodlounge will try and do accurate tests of battery capacity.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=226982"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
In the Newsweek article, it mentions the longer battery life as being a result of more efficient energy-saving features, not a new, higher-capacity battery. Apple's quoted battery life of 8 hours for the 3rd gen model never held true for me, since that figure represents continuous play (i.e., no changing songs manually, using the backlight, or touching the controls). Thus, I'd be interested to see how the new model holds up under "normal" use....if one changes songs frequently, turns on the backlight for a few seconds, or plays with the volume, do these "energy saving" features become moot?
I almost purchased a 20GB third-generation iPod yesterday.
No I am going to wait for this.
I really hope the new supposed battery life holds true. And thet there isn't anything broken on the new generation. And that they remain as good looking as always
Even with a $100 price drop, they are still bloody expensive.
I'll agree to spend $400 on an hifi audio component, but that's just too much for a portable device that may have a usable lifespan of 3-4 years. I am the type of person who really should have an iPod, but I've drawn the line in the sand because I'm simply cautious with my money.
but that's just too much for a portable device that may have a usable lifespan of 3-4 years.
I disagree, but only on general principles. For you your statement may be true, but if I didn't already have a 3rd gen iPod I'd buy the 4th gen model because I use mine
all the time (well not quite, but getting there.)
There are many reasons to buy an iPod...and many reasons not to... and they vary heavily from person to person.
but that's just too much for a portable device that may have a usable lifespan of 3-4 years.
I agree that $300-$400 is a lot of money, however, if it was too much to be asking of the iPod then nobody would be buying it. However, millions of people are getting iPods so obviously are willing to shell out the money for one. There are cheaper portables out there and now that Apple has lowered the prices on the iPod that should force its competitors to lower their prices even more. Watch the next Rio Karma be around $200 to compete with the iPod.
The 4th gen iPod doesn't really look like a major improvement over the 3rd gen. They added some of the functionality of the iPod mini and 4 more hours of battery life mixed with a few minor features built into the player. I own a 3rd gen 20GB iPod and I don't see myself upgrading to the 4th gen unless my iPod dies and I get a 4th gen for free at Circuit City.
I just hope it's more scratch resistant than the 3rd gens. The mini is great in this regard, but the magazine picture seems to show that the 4th gen models retain the shiny, scratch-prone exterior.
but that's just too much for a portable device that may have a usable lifespan of 3-4 years.
I agree that $300-$400 is a lot of money, however, if it was too much to be asking of the iPod then nobody would be buying it.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=227035"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I strongly disagree. Because the HDD/MP3 player market (the MP3 market, if you ask me) is still in its infancy, people really don't have any clue that there are other options on the market, let alone better, cheaper ones.
How about "better looking"? Or "easy to use"?
The iPod, besides having "first-born advantage" is also one of the most beautiful pieces of electronics ever built (Apple has had that advantage for some time now) and it is also very easy to use, both in itself and when connected to a computer.
There might be better stuff out there, but I think these are the two points companies making HD-based MP3/AAC players out there should adress first, even before price.
I have a 2nd Generation 20G iPod that I use every day. I listen to it at work. I listen to it while I work out at the gym. It is awesome. I realize that some folks balk at the price. I bought my iPod on ebay when the 3rd Generation came out. I have been extremely happy with my purchase. In fact, I got my wife a mini-ipod as well.
Sean
Looks good. I especially like the slightly longer battery life, which was one of the complaints I've read about it. They don't have the 15 GB version anymore. Hopefully the 20 GB isn't too expensive...I wonder what's the educational price. The 15 GB was AUD$403
What I'm especially hoping for with this new iPod range, is that something has been done about the distortion issue (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=20434) to the playback of 320 kbps CBR and -B 320 VBR MP3s. Which is the major downside to the iPod, in my view.
I prefer the iPod mini, fits in your pocket easier as is about half the height of an iPod. Plus it can charge from USB (iPod only from firewire), this means going on holiday with a laptop means just 1 usb cable (no charger).
Its weird, i just dont listen to music like this. I cant stand the sound from in ear phones - yes decent ones. (or even having them in my ears), and im not going to stick my huge sennheisers on to go for a run, not really portable. Plus I find ipods in particular way over priced. If it had a digital out id consider it - the iriver ihp-140 makes more sense to me.
do these "energy saving" features become moot?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=226986"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I think most energy saving will come from its new processor, dsp chip, new harddrive and electrical design. I'm not sure that they use the same processor as the mini or even the newer one. I've read somewhere the current drain of the mni is significantly less than the 3rd gen (on both playback from buffer and during disk access).
I wonder what's the educational price. The 15 GB was AUD$403
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=227111"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
If the Australian prices for the 4G models remain equated with the US prices for 3G models, then it looks like the education price for the 40GB 4G model will be AUD$540, which to me is much more reasonable than the $720 it is currently (only $79 saving over standard retail price). However who knows what the pricing structure will be. I reckon the AUD$399 asking price for the iPod mini is rather unrealistic. However I understand that people who get one are paying extra for the small size.
What I'm especially hoping for with this new iPod range, is that something has been done about the distortion issue (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=20434) to the playback of 320 kbps CBR and -B 320 VBR MP3s. Which is the major downside to the iPod, in my view.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=227132"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I agree that it is a concern that it has playback issues on high bit rate MP3, and you'd like to think that it is something that would be of high concern to the firmware developers. However, it is my intention to get a 40 GB model and then to use a medium bitrate AAC setting in iTunes, say around 160K for most of my files, maybe a bit higher on albums I know that will be hard to compress. My only great wish now is for a new version of iTunes with a nicely tuned VBR version of the AAC encoder. By looks of it that isn't going to be too far off given the recent new beta of OSX.
I am in process of re-ripping all my CDs to FLAC. I have done most of my absolute favourites first. But in order to do my whole collection I need to invest in a new 200 GB hard disc first :-) I guess the next step is to find a simple method for going from FLAC to iTunes AAC, whilst retaining all tags etc.
Edit: typos
That sounds pretty neat... but now I have to justify buying it. Any ideas?
I wonder what's the educational price. The 15 GB was AUD$403
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=227111"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
If the Australian prices for the 4G models remain equated with the US prices for 3G models, then it looks like the education price for the 40GB 4G model will be AUD$540, which to me is much more reasonable than the $720 it is currently (only $79 saving over standard retail price). However who knows what the pricing structure will be. I reckon the AUD$399 asking price for the iPod mini is rather unrealistic. However I understand that people who get one are paying extra for the small size.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=227168"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Cool. What do you think about the 20 GB 4G iPod? That's the one I'm considering as it is replacing the 15 GB?
Does any user here know if it's possible to plug on one both a PC and a Mac you own ? I fear I could only use it with one or the other but not both computers...
Are there people working on an alternative firmware that would support other codec/containers ? (Vorbis, WavPack to name the ones I want)
(off topic)
I guess the next step is to find a simple method for going from FLAC to iTunes AAC, whilst retaining all tags etc.[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=227170"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
EAC 2 FLAC and AAC simultaneously: Mareo.
FLAC 2 AAC: Speek's Multi frontend.
FrEaKy! I went back to the Apple Education store that I can access (For Flinders University S.A.) and it is now showing only two models, the 20 GB, and the 40 GB. Within the space of 3 hours or so the 15 GB model has been removed! Sadly the price is not quite as good as what I hoped, it is $584.10 for the 40 GB model (I speculated it would be $540), and $448.80 for the 20 GB model. It does not state that these are prices for the 4G models, instead it says "w/click wheel". I should point out that it only says the dock is included for the 40 GB model, NOT the 20 GB model, that may simply be wrong, I'm sure more info will come to light in the next few days. Neither models state that they come with a remote. I would've hoped the 40 GB version at least would come with the remote.
All prices are AUD$.
I should point out that it only says the dock is included for the 40 GB model, NOT the 20 GB model, that may simply be wrong, I'm sure more info will come to light in the next few days.[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=227216")
[a href="http://www.apple.com/store/]Apple Store[/url] lists the new 20GB iPod's without a dock too. The dock is only included with the 40GB version it seems.
IMO, style is the only thing the iPod has going for it. Other players (e.g. Rio Karma) offer things like better battery life, gapless playback, more format support, linux support, etc. Unfortunately, the media (and the public I guess) are infatuated with the iPod without even realizing there are alternatives, let alone that the alternatives are better.
Steve Jobs could take a dump in an attractive acrylic box and there would be Apple fanboys lined up to buy it.
Apple Store (http://www.apple.com/store/) lists the new 20GB iPod's without a dock too. The dock is only included with the 40GB version it seems.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=227220"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Looks like neither of them come with the inline remote, must be purchased extra, meaning you end up with a 2nd set of headphones.
IMO, style is the only thing the iPod has going for it. Other players (e.g. Rio Karma) offer things like better battery life, gapless playback, more format support, linux support, etc...
The Rio Karma has gapless MP3 playback?
Hmm, I could pick one up on Amazon for 200 dollars (they gave me a 50 dollar coupon).
And what about HD integrity? Any major flaws I should know about?
Yes, it's true, the Karma reads lame tags to play mp3s gaplessly if they are present (I've tested this myself). If they aren't, it usually can figurwe it out anyway. Of course, it also supports truly gapless formats like vorbis and flac, so that's an option as well.
You've hit on the biggest drawback of the Karama. Hard drive failure rates are higher than other HD based players, but problems are still pretty rare. The actual cause of the problem is not completely known but seems to be a bug in the hard drive's firmware (not the Karma firmware), that causes the heads not to be parked under very particular circumstances. The hard drive isn't able to spin up properly after that happens because of stiction. Many people have "fixed" a locked up unit by giving it a solid "thwack" to dislodge the heads, after which the player operates normally. The mfg. warranty is only 90 days, so if the retailer has an option for an extended warranty, I'd recommend it. At one point the Rio RMA department had a really slow turnaround, but apparently that's been resolved.
Right now, my biggest gripe is a very minor one. The Java software for the Karma (which you need to use if you're not running Windows) only works over the Karama's ethernet connection, not USB. On the other hand, if I had some other player, I probably wouldn't have Linux support at all.
FrEaKy! I went back to the Apple Education store that I can access (For Flinders University S.A.) and it is now showing only two models, the 20 GB, and the 40 GB. Within the space of 3 hours or so the 15 GB model has been removed! Sadly the price is not quite as good as what I hoped, it is $584.10 for the 40 GB model (I speculated it would be $540), and $448.80 for the 20 GB model. It does not state that these are prices for the 4G models, instead it says "w/click wheel". I should point out that it only says the dock is included for the 40 GB model, NOT the 20 GB model, that may simply be wrong, I'm sure more info will come to light in the next few days. Neither models state that they come with a remote. I would've hoped the 40 GB version at least would come with the remote.
All prices are AUD$.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=227216"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I just checked the Education store too (for Griffith University, QLD) and I think I know why the 20 GB is a tad more expensive....it comes with the USB 2.0 cable. That's worth AUD$34 before so I think that's the extra cost. But that's good since having USB 2.0, this iPod can truly be a portable HD (I dont know many desktops here that have firewire).
phong,
You forgot to mention some important iPod's advantages: its sync software (iTunes) and AAC support.
Majority of portable users don't care about number of format support, gapless or not, all they care is style, good enough audio quality, ease of use and coolness factor.
I think iPod win on most aspects listed above. Rio Karma might be better in other aspects but only the minorities care.
I just checked the Education store too (for Griffith University, QLD) and I think I know why the 20 GB is a tad more expensive....it comes with the USB 2.0 cable. That's worth AUD$34 before so I think that's the extra cost. But that's good since having USB 2.0, this iPod can truly be a portable HD (I dont know many desktops here that have firewire).
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=227352"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
AFAIK the iPod is not seen as a HD by the host computer. That's a major drawback IMO, even though I imagine there are hacks available (that you'd have to install everytime you plug it on a new computer). So for me it's still not the perfect player (USB HD, HE-AAC, MP3, Wavpack, record, 40GB, USB On The Go)...
I just checked the Education store too (for Griffith University, QLD) and I think I know why the 20 GB is a tad more expensive....it comes with the USB 2.0 cable. That's worth AUD$34 before so I think that's the extra cost. But that's good since having USB 2.0, this iPod can truly be a portable HD (I dont know many desktops here that have firewire).
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=227352"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
AFAIK the iPod is not seen as a HD by the host computer. That's a major drawback IMO, even though I imagine there are hacks available (that you'd have to install everytime you plug it on a new computer). So for me it's still not the perfect player (USB HD, HE-AAC, MP3, Wavpack, record, 40GB, USB On The Go)...
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=227423"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Sorry, but a removable HD is exactly what the iPod appears to the PC as. iTunes can be set to quickly connect, auto-sync, and then eject the iPod but you can easily change one dialog in the settings which allows you to use the iPod as a portable HD as long as your willing to put up with hitting the eject button in iTunes (or using the remove hardware feature in windows).
And BTW no extra drivers are needed to connect the iPod to a Win 2000/XP machine.
phong,
You forgot to mention some important iPod's advantages: its sync software (iTunes) and AAC support.
Majority of portable users don't care about number of format support, gapless or not, all they care is style, good enough audio quality, ease of use and coolness factor.
I think iPod win on most aspects listed above. Rio Karma might be better in other aspects but only the minorities care.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=227417"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Doesn't the Karma support ogg? and didn't ogg beat AAC in a recent listening test?
You've hit on the biggest drawback of the Karama. Hard drive failure rates are higher than other HD based players, but problems are still pretty rare.
I think the problem is more to do with the short warranty on the Karma - I suspect the failure rates are the same for Hard disk players (after all they all use the same 2 brands of mini hard disk).
Sorry, but a removable HD is exactly what the iPod appears to the PC as. iTunes can be set to quickly connect, auto-sync, and then eject the iPod but you can easily change one dialog in the settings which allows you to use the iPod as a portable HD as long as your willing to put up with hitting the eject button in iTunes (or using the remove hardware feature in windows).
And BTW no extra drivers are needed to connect the iPod to a Win 2000/XP machine.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=227426"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Didn't know that. If that's true, that's one good step (still not enough for me).
Doesn't the Karma support ogg? and didn't ogg beat AAC in a recent listening test?
Not, Matroska beats OGG in all test
Vorbis is quite equivalent to AAC. the difference is not vital. But HE-AAC is really good but lacks support (like Vorbis).
Does any user here know if it's possible to plug on one both a PC and a Mac you own ? I fear I could only use it with one or the other but not both computers...[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=227206"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Note: I do not have a iPod myself (yet: about to order one of the new 4Gs)
People are having success in using the iPod on a PC and Mac as long as it has been formatted on a PC, and ONLY if it has been formatted on a PC.
If you format it on a Mac then you have to use the 'restore' function when you connect it to a PC (ie. reformat it using fat32).
This is what I've read about, can not confirm this works.
But comparing iPod users to iRiver hp120.... my impression is that alot of the iRiver people LOVE it at start, but reviews by users that have had it for a while are not as grand, issues with playlists, songs don't show up if they contain non-english characters, slow browsing, cumbersome browsing, etc.
Compare that to iPod user reviews new and old.... hehe well can't find much really, low battery (improved in 4g) and no Radio but other than that mostly just lots of peace and love. FM tuner is what IMO is lacking the most.
Btw, for those interested, the cost has been cut by $100, but if you look closer there are some differences:
The 'new' 20gig does NOT come with a Dock.
... and something else sry... read fine print
edit: made the quote box a bit smaller
Btw, for those interested, the cost has been cut by $100, but if you look closer there are some differences:
The 'new' 20gig does NOT come with a Dock.
... and something else sry... read fine print
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=227458"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The lowest cost iPod has never come with the dock etc., so this is nothing new. Just like the 15, 10 and 5 gig models before this one.
My biggest disappointment is that there's still no gapless playback. Do they really believe all that propaganda about how "iPod has changed how people listen to music"? Hell, people still listen to live and mixed albums!
Yep it's kind of rubbish that the new 4G iPods don't come with either the remote or carry case and only the 40GB model comes with the dock. If you were to buy all these seperatly it would cost you $117. This must be how they managed to "cut" the prices, throw out all the previously included accessories.
Then again if I was buying a new iPod I wouldn't buy the remote or the Apple case, instead I would get an iSkin (once they come out for the 4G models), an iTrip and possibly a dock if I wanted the line out connection.
My biggest disappointment is that there's still no gapless playback. Do they really believe all that propaganda about how "iPod has changed how people listen to music"? Hell, people still listen to live and mixed albums!
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=227469"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Any idea if gapless playback could be made possible by a software (firmware) upgrade? Or is it a hardware issue?
IMO, style is the only thing the iPod has going for it. Other players (e.g. Rio Karma) offer things like better battery life, gapless playback, more format support, linux support, etc. Unfortunately, the media (and the public I guess) are infatuated with the iPod without even realizing there are alternatives, let alone that the alternatives are better.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=227221"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I agree the Rio Karma is very nice player. However I need a 40 GB player. Hopefully the Karma 2 comes in 20 GB and 40 GB capacities. So that it is in direct competition with Apple. However, apparently early reports of the Karma 2 say it is going to be smaller than the current Karma, so I don't know how it can be both smaller, and a 40 GB player.
Plus the iPod's support for LC-AAC is a plus. Rio's support for Vorbis is to be commended though. Ideally I will get a player that can hold all of my CDs, to do this I need great sounding files around 160K, so Vorbis, or AAC will be good at this, with the edge probably going to AAC.
Any idea if gapless playback could be made possible by a software (firmware) upgrade? Or is it a hardware issue?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=227485"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I don't have any hard facts on this, but since they implemented Apple Lossless just with a firmware upgrade, I don't see why things like this wouldn't work out as well if they just had the incentive to do so. In the case of Lossless, they had the incentive - they sell Lossless packed files through ITMS.
Knowing Apple, however.... I doubt we'll ever see gapless for old iPods. I bet it's going to be introduced at a generation jump, perhaps the next one. Just like things like on-the-go playlists would have been possible, but were never retrofitted to the 1/2G firmware.
Actually, can even iTunes play mp3's gapless?
Doesn't the Karma support ogg? and didn't ogg beat AAC in a recent listening test?
Quicktime AAC is the only CBR CODEC (I know it's more like ABR in AAC) in the test, and it compete surprisingly well with other the VBR CODECs at such low bitrate (I consider 128kbps a low range for stereo music).
Actually, can even iTunes play mp3's gapless?
No.
Majority of portable users don't care about number of format support, gapless or not, all they care is style, good enough audio quality, ease of use and coolness factor.
Yeah. Sad but true...but when the format support allows for extra player functionality vs. less support then it's better.
I own a Rio Karma. My main beef with Apple's Ipod is their lack of proper album playback. If they would impliment gapless then I'd probably own one. The Karma does this and much more and probably the better player hands down in the end.
Actually, can even iTunes play mp3's gapless?
No.
Majority of portable users don't care about number of format support, gapless or not, all they care is style, good enough audio quality, ease of use and coolness factor.
Yeah. Sad but true...but when the format support allows for extra player functionality vs. less support then it's better.
I own a Rio Karma. My main beef with Apple's Ipod is their lack of proper album playback. If they would impliment gapless then I'd probably own one. The Karma does this and much more and probably the better player hands down in the end.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=227554"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Actually, iTunes does have a feature which may result in something similiar to what you are looking for in it's crossfade feature. What exactly do you mean by gapless and reproducing the album effect?
Ive been having problems with my 20gb 3g one, i might take it to apple store and see if they will replace it with the 4g one..its worth a try lol
Actually, can even iTunes play mp3's gapless?
No.
Majority of portable users don't care about number of format support, gapless or not, all they care is style, good enough audio quality, ease of use and coolness factor.
Yeah. Sad but true...but when the format support allows for extra player functionality vs. less support then it's better.
I own a Rio Karma. My main beef with Apple's Ipod is their lack of proper album playback. If they would impliment gapless then I'd probably own one. The Karma does this and much more and probably the better player hands down in the end.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=227554"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Actually, iTunes does have a feature which may result in something similiar to what you are looking for in it's crossfade feature. What exactly do you mean by gapless and reproducing the album effect?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=227597"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
What he means is that on the tracks on albums that do not have gaps between them, the iPod cannot currently play them correctly. Therefore, the iPod cannot reproduce the full "album effect".
Actually, iTunes does have a feature which may result in something similiar to what you are looking for in it's crossfade feature. What exactly do you mean by gapless and reproducing the album effect?
Gapless is much more than just playing song with no silence between them (like you can do with a crossfader). "True gapless" is the ability of a codec to somehow retain/register the actual length of a music sample. This is very important to retain the "effect" on some albums where all the tracks are made to be played uninterrupted, like a live album, of a Pink Floyd album. There are also albums that are designed to have some tracks play like that and others with silences between them. A good example of this is The Beatles' "Abbey Road".
"Reproducing the album's effect" is nothing but to be able to listen to the album the closest one can to what the artist wanted to achieve.
Ive been having problems with my 20gb 3g one, i might take it to apple store and see if they will replace it with the 4g one..its worth a try lol
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=227605"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Why don't you ask them to make your 20GB iPod work instead?
Why would you want to lose 16 gigabytes of music?
See the problem is, when im walking with it and playing some music, it will suddenly stop playing for no reason, and when i take it out of my pocket, it will show the battery indicator thing spent all the way, even if ive only used it for like 15-30 mins. If i leave it alone for 2-3 minutes "magically" the battery comes back, anyway, i dont think this is acceptable performance for a $400 mp3 player (i dont know if you would), and want to see if this problem has been eliminated on the 4g ipod, also, i have all my music backed up (who wouldn't?)
Gapless is much more than just playing song with no silence between them (like you can do with a crossfader).
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=227611"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
iTunes can't even do
that....even when using Apple Lossless or AIFF files, setting the crossfader to zero still results in a pop and a brief pause. It's annoying enough that I've ripped all my Pink Floyd, classical, and The Who albums as single tracks, rather than individual ones.
CD's are the only things that play back gaplessly in iTunes, but why would I play a CD in iTunes to begin with? Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose of having a HDD-based software jukebox?
See the problem is, when im walking with it and playing some music, it will suddenly stop playing for no reason, and when i take it out of my pocket, it will show the battery indicator thing spent all the way, even if ive only used it for like 15-30 mins. If i leave it alone for 2-3 minutes "magically" the battery comes back, anyway, i dont think this is acceptable performance for a $400 mp3 player (i dont know if you would), and want to see if this problem has been eliminated on the 4g ipod, also, i have all my music backed up (who wouldn't?)
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=227614"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Your device obviously has a bad battery. This is unacceptable, indeed, but it is normal. The same thing could have happened to a Mini. If you are still under warranty, you should ask for a device (or battery) replacement.
If you are still under warranty, you should ask for a device (or battery) replacement.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=227619"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
which is exactly what i plan to do
iTunes can't even do that....even when using Apple Lossless or AIFF files, setting the crossfader to zero still results in a pop and a brief pause. It's annoying enough that I've ripped all my Pink Floyd, classical, and The Who albums as single tracks, rather than individual ones.
CD's are the only things that play back gaplessly in iTunes, but why would I play a CD in iTunes to begin with? Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose of having a HDD-based software jukebox?
This is the one thing that has changed my mind about buying an iPod.
You know, I had learned to "deal" with the lack of gapless playback on portables, but having read that Rio Karma supports LAME-tag-based gapless playback, I am definitely going that way.
It's a shame that we have this 'sliding window' way of selling products. They never get any cheaper but newer products just slide down and replace the older ones, often at higher prices. I was considering buying the 15 GB 3G iPod a few weeks ago but waited until they announced the new ones. Then I considered buying the iRiver H120, only to find out that it's been discontinued, replaced by the more expensive H140. And now the lowest 4G iPod at 20 GB has turned out more expensive than the one it replaced.
I guess the longer you wait, the more features you get, rather than prices falling.
It is official now (http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/10163)
I must say it still looks interesting, but now I am waiting for the Karma 2 (or the original Karma to experience a price drop)
How's the amp and sound output of the 4G so far?
Also, I heard there was a new game (read on slashdot, I think)- anyone know what that is?
How's the amp and sound output of the 4G so far?
Also, I heard there was a new game (read on slashdot, I think)- anyone know what that is?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=227736"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
If games were a selling point for a DAP I'd buy a PDA. DAPs should play music and play it well. I think Apple should worry about supporting proper audio playback support rather than games.
How's the amp and sound output of the 4G so far?
Also, I heard there was a new game (read on slashdot, I think)- anyone know what that is?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=227736"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
If games were a selling point for a DAP I'd buy a PDA. DAPs should play music and play it well. I think Apple should worry about supporting proper audio playback support rather than games.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=227740"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Agreed, but I was curious none the less. The major question in my posting (about the output) was posed first
This is the one thing that has changed my mind about buying an iPod.
You know, I had learned to "deal" with the lack of gapless playback on portables, but having read that Rio Karma supports LAME-tag-based gapless playback, I am definitely going that way.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=227621"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Well, as mentioned above, why not just rip a 'suite' of tracks into a single track using iTunes. Logically, it makes sense. Having several movements contained in a piece of classical music is theoretically still one piece of music. If they are assigned seperate track numbers, and shuffle is set on your CD player, they don't, ofcourse, play consecutively. I just don't think it is that big a deal, I think it is a bit 'nit-picky'
If games were a selling point for a DAP I'd buy a PDA. DAPs should play music and play it well. I think Apple should worry about supporting proper audio playback support rather than games.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=227740"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I am curious as to your definition of 'proper audio playback'? I sum it up this way . . . how many people out there can offord $1,500 ea Mission/Castle speakers, state of the art pre-amps, etc . . . the majority of the folks using iPods are using them as portable players, on the go, not as a plug in to a home stereo unit. I, on the other hand, AM planning on using it on my home system to replace my entire CD collection.
With that in mind, I have researched it a lot, and have found that the iPod is an extremely easy, quality, decent sounding device that, coupled w/iTunes, makes for a very easy, efficient, quality method of musical reproduction. I am planning on encoding all of my content at AAC 192 Mbps and feel that although not completely transparent by many audiofile standards, this will suffice for my Sony 250w surround receiver/Bose 301 Bookshelf home stereo configuration. I even plan to upgrade possibly to a pair of B&W D603's, replacing the Bose units, and I am not the least bit concerned of transparency issues at the above mentioned encoding rate. Should I be?
I'm in the process of going to FLAC, thus making a mass 160Kbps iTunes AAC encode easy in the future. I wish I could go higher, but I want to fit all of my CDs onto a 40 GB iPod... Hopefully Apple releases a true VBR AAC codec in the next few months, so that I am encoding the most efficient way.
I am curious as to your definition of 'proper audio playback'? I sum it up this way . . . how many people out there can offord $1,500 ea Mission/Castle speakers, state of the art pre-amps, etc . . . the majority of the folks using iPods are using them as portable players, on the go, not as a plug in to a home stereo unit. I, on the other hand, AM planning on using it on my home system to replace my entire CD collection.
With that in mind, I have researched it a lot, and have found that the iPod is an extremely easy, quality, decent sounding device that, coupled w/iTunes, makes for a very easy, efficient, quality method of musical reproduction. I am planning on encoding all of my content at AAC 192 Mbps and feel that although not completely transparent by many audiofile standards, this will suffice for my Sony 250w surround receiver/Bose 301 Bookshelf home stereo configuration. I even plan to upgrade possibly to a pair of B&W D603's, replacing the Bose units, and I am not the least bit concerned of transparency issues at the above mentioned encoding rate. Should I be?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=227818"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
A $25 portable CD player can play an album correctly, while a $400 Ipod cannot. I'm talking about gapless playback.
Well, as mentioned above, why not just rip a 'suite' of tracks into a single track using iTunes. Logically, it makes sense. Having several movements contained in a piece of classical music is theoretically still one piece of music. If they are assigned seperate track numbers, and shuffle is set on your CD player, they don't, ofcourse, play consecutively. I just don't think it is that big a deal, I think it is a bit 'nit-picky' [a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=227813"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
This kind of logic may work for classical music, but what about, say, a trance CD that's composed of a bunch of different songs by different artists that are mixed together continuously? Also, the slightest gap in this sort of album is
very annoying.
This kind of logic may work for classical music (...)
Not really. Direct access to different tracks is necessary. Even "purist" are shouting when a CD comes without any track (it's very rare, and that's why all editors are using tracks, sometimes more than 100 for one lyrical piece).
I can't understand why manufacters are so negligent about gapless playback. All audio devices before MP3 players were able to do that: vynil, tape, CD, and even MD! Since the beginning of the 80', consumer has the possibility to switch with precision and very quickly from one point to another (CD, MD). Mono-file ripping is just a 25 year regression. Even for classical music listeners (and maybe
especially for them).
This kind of logic may work for classical music (...)
Not really. Direct access to different tracks is necessary. Even "purist" are shouting when a CD comes without any track (it's very rare, and that's why all editors are using tracks, sometimes more than 100 for one lyrical piece).
I can't understand why manufacters are so negligent about gapless playback. All audio devices before MP3 players were able to do that: vynil, tape, CD, and even MD! Since the beginning of the 80', consumer has the possibility to switch with precision and very quickly from one point to another (CD, MD). Mono-file ripping is just a 25 year regression. Even for classical music listeners (and maybe especially for them).
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=227917"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Probably because 99% of people who buy mp3 players don't care about gapless playback.
Probably because 99% of people who buy mp3 players don't care about gapless playback.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=227920"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I guess that's the same with portable MD players... nevertheless Sony thought and made gapless and
real audio players.
How's the amp and sound output of the 4G so far?
Also, I heard there was a new game (read on slashdot, I think)- anyone know what that is?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=227736"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
If games were a selling point for a DAP I'd buy a PDA. DAPs should play music and play it well. I think Apple should worry about supporting proper audio playback support rather than games.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=227740"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Apple are currently selling iPods at a rate faster than they can make them. Obviously "proper audio playback" isn't a priority at the moment because 95% of the population don't care that there's a 1 second pause between tracks. And if it bothers them that much they can just encode the whole CD thing as a single track
I'm sure it would be possible to add, as would vorbis/flac/mpc/wma support, but why bother - the only thing that may increase is the "days to ship" time at the Apple Store. The amount of people who would buy an iPod over another device because of these features is probably not enough to offset the costs of development and support anyway.
Does anyone have further information an the "speed adjustment" feature, I've heard of?
This seems to be interesting and how good it really is - because it's usually a trade-off between complexity and quality. Does it change the pitch?
The amount of people who would buy an iPod over another device because of these features is probably not enough to offset the costs of development and support anyway.
Fortunately, there's enough of us who do care that a company who makes a better alternative at a lower price can still make money.
* hugs Karma *
I think the concept of mp3 players (in many people's minds) may be been so they can make compilations of their favourite music, which for there would be no theoretical use for gapless playback (unless you're making trance mp3 cd's where gapless is usually a must)
Probably because 99% of people who buy mp3 players don't care about gapless playback.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=227920"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I guess that's the same with portable MD players... nevertheless Sony thought and made gapless and real audio players.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=227925"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Nothing wrong with that, people can buy MD players then. Everyone who wants an iPod will buy an iPod.
I can't understand why manufacters are so negligent about gapless playback. All audio devices before MP3 players were able to do that: vynil, tape, CD, and even MD! Since the beginning of the 80', consumer has the possibility to switch with precision and very quickly from one point to another (CD, MD). Mono-file ripping is just a 25 year regression. Even for classical music listeners (and maybe especially for them).
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=227917"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Well said....well said.
Does anyone have further information an the "speed adjustment" feature, I've heard of?
This seems to be interesting and how good it really is - because it's usually a trade-off between complexity and quality. Does it change the pitch?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=227937"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Supposedly it doesn't change the pitch, but it only works for audio books.
But you can change the extension from .m4a to .m4b (at least with the older generations) and "create" an audiobook.
My new 20 GB iPod arrived today. Damn nice looks But when I peeled off the protective plastic that covers the clickwheel, it left a lot of sticky remnants. I had to clean with some methylated spirits
hmm...so far so good though. It comes up as a USB HD in windows and copying files to and from seems quite easy so it's quite nice as a removable HD. Though very slick, holding in your hand gives me the feeling that it's very fragile and fingerprint-prone. I should've got the carry case I guess.
The Apple earphones look pretty cheap but the sound seems quite different to my Sony's. I don't know which sounds better...just know they sound different.
So far, I've been very happy with it.
I purchased a 40 GB 4G iPod this week and I love it! I think the real benefit is the combination of iTunes and the iPod. I have so far ripped approx. 50 CDs in a few days, and it is just so simple. Syncing w/the dock is easy, too. Encoding at AAC 192 Kbps. I have tested several titles from many genres against the original CD, and have yet to notice ANY discernable differences!!! Have tested through a pair of Bose 301s and old Sony Studio quality headphones.
I have used the LAME plugin in the past on my G3, but it was so slow, I barely encode in MP3 on OS X now. I have not tested the plugin on my new G4 eMac yet, but the G3 would be lucky if it hit 1.0x!
Does anyone have any information about the purported hidden features in the 4Gs that Apple is allegedly going to ignite sometime in the near future?
Nothing but speculation about "hidden features", which originated from this (http://www.time.com/time/gadget/20040728/) article.
But you should know that internally the new iPod is a ground-up reconstruction, and its really compelling applications — the ones that very well might get the goat of anyone unable or unwilling to upgrade — are still secret. All that Apple is saying is that there's more to this than what's being publicized.
I have to say that if it's meant to be that amazing the only reason I can think of why Apple wouldn't have annouced yet, is if they have to wait for the production of some form of accessory. (ie radio)
Or may be it's going to require major work on their part, I assume for instance that if they implimented gapless it would require them to re-encode the entire iTMS library. But I think that my just be wishful thinking on my part As I doubt that it would take them weeks/months to transcode their music library, unless of course they didn't rip to lossless first
dman hope the fix the big gaps/clicks between mp3 tracks at playback