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Topic: New Lossy Audio Codec (Read 37492 times) previous topic - next topic
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New Lossy Audio Codec

Reply #25 –
Quote
Needless to say, the fact that I use a generic power cord on my PC means the MP3 sounds terrible.

Changing powercord will improve sound only TRUE for analog audio.

If you insist it's true, maybe your PC have bad RF or EC interference, or the grounding of the old powercord is not connected, the analog part of the sound card and the audio cable was colorize by noise.

If the shielding is good, changing powercord in PC should have no significant changes in terms of sound quality.
Hong Kong - International Joke Center (after 1997-06-30)

New Lossy Audio Codec

Reply #26 –
Quote
Quote
Needless to say, the fact that I use a generic power cord on my PC means the MP3 sounds terrible.

Changing powercord will improve sound only TRUE for analog audio.

If the shielding is good, changing powercord in PC should have no significant changes in terms of sound quality.

Care to explain why it would on analog audio (whatever that means...)?

New Lossy Audio Codec

Reply #27 –
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Hong Kong - International Joke Center

Hm, should have got it...

New Lossy Audio Codec

Reply #28 –
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JPEG performs very poorly on sound, because it's not continous across 8-pixel boundaries. Thus you get discontinuities every 8 samples, basically adding a square wave to your sound  

The more you compress, the more it becomes unusable.

You should definitely try JPEG2000 !!

Yes I agree.. JPEG uses a non-overlapped 2D DCT Block.. There would be "blocking effects".. the frame boundary noise would be very annoying.. The use of overlapped DCT would result in the boundary noise being spread across 2 different frames and below the perceptual masking level of the human hearing.

New Lossy Audio Codec

Reply #29 –
Ouch.  I did something similar (and, sadly, in full seriousness) for audio->jpg->audio around 1993, for a crude streaming-voice hack so I could shout obsceneties at a friend over my little modem.  It was an inetd-launched shell script(!) which used pipes, cjpeg and djpeg. 

There were also two home-grown C filters in the pipeline, only one of which is probably of interest to forum readers; it (de/)arranged every 64 8-bit audio samples onto an 8x8 Hilbert curve in the greyscale bitmap, which made the 2d arrangement of the data much more jpeg-friendly.

New Lossy Audio Codec

Reply #30 –
Quote
Quote
Needless to say, the fact that I use a generic power cord on my PC means the MP3 sounds terrible.

Changing powercord will improve sound only TRUE for analog audio.

[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=153547"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


A system that I use for DJing once did actually have sound issues related to the power cable... er... you could think of it that way.

There was actually a ground loop because of the way that the audio equipment was plugged in, and it would feed a 60 Hz buzz through all the equipment that ended up in the sound, and it was very annoying.  A temporary workaround was to break off the ground pin from the PC power cable and the mixer power cable.

After a lot of reading and rewiring stuff, I was able to plug every single component into the same outlet, to ensure that they were indeed sharing a common ground point (which must not have been the case before, resulting in the ground loop).  The problem was almost completely solved after that.

So, as silly as it may sound, a power cord can affect the sound coming out of a computer.  Of course, this would have absolutely nothing to do with the process of encoding music... uhm... last I checked that was an entirely digital process.

New Lossy Audio Codec

Reply #31 –
Release some code!

Some IDM freak will use it in a track, and then Mac will say it's amazing beautiful soundscapes of mad clickery! (maybe...)

But seriously, any form of creative distortion is cool by me, so share the code.

Ruairi
rc55.com - nothing going on

New Lossy Audio Codec

Reply #32 –
Well, JPEG is mostly a source coder, not a perceptual coder, and its perceptual tuning is for the eye.

MP3 is an audio coder, and gets its gain about equally from source and perceptual coding.

I can't imagine why one would do what the other does, let alone well.
-----
J. D. (jj) Johnston

New Lossy Audio Codec

Reply #33 –
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Some IDM freak will use it in a track, and then Mac will say it's amazing beautiful soundscapes of mad clickery! (maybe...)
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=280836"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


LOL! You've red too much electronica reviews in recent times ;)

- Lyx
I am arrogant and I can afford it because I deliver.

New Lossy Audio Codec

Reply #34 –
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LOL! You've red too much electronica reviews in recent times [{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


More like he has been talking too much with [a href="http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showuser=2828]Mac[/url] :-B

New Lossy Audio Codec

Reply #35 –
hmm why not make the picture  in 1*XXXX so that the picture data is "1 dimensional" like audio. That would probaly remove the one second pre-/post- echo.

:-)

--edit--
Some words came out in danish
Sven Bent - Denmark

New Lossy Audio Codec

Reply #36 –
Audio isn't quite "1 dimensional" - it has depth (bit depth), and if it's not mono it also has parallel worlds (additional channels)
I wonder what would happen if audio were stored in the way similar to lossy encoders (so the "dimensions" would be: time, frequency, and dB), so basically the picture would be a spectrogram. I guess the problem would be with converting such a spectrogram JPEG back to PCM audio...

New Lossy Audio Codec

Reply #37 –
This thread is still alive o_O? Guess April fool's is here allready.
No inspiration

New Lossy Audio Codec

Reply #38 –
I was disappointed that there are no images to view in this interesting topis

Fortunatelly some time (2 years ago?) I had briliant idea of doing all what is in this funny topis

"Audio -> JPG -> Audio" - this was terrible experience. there was no way to make it sound right though mono jpeg on mono 8bit wav sounded best
"BMP -> MP3 -> BMP" - and heare I still got some picture
[a href="http://img330.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ter740jo.jpg" target="_blank"] )

I used some audio program and IrfanView's RAW plugin 

How do you say about my colorful mp3 image?  If I remember right it is cobined from 3 layers (Red layer + Blue ...)   

As you can see mp3 start to change picture before and after mountain in the same distance. On high bitrate rfom I remember this distance was smaller and whole image looks more solid though still with a lots of horizontal artifacts

Waiting for your pictures 

New Lossy Audio Codec

Reply #39 –
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How do you say about my colorful mp3 image?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=326908"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'd say that MP3 is a nice retouch effect (kinda like wrecked VHS tape) 
I guess that this picture is a good example of MP3 quantization noise?
Anyway, quality is suprisingly good!

New Lossy Audio Codec

Reply #40 –
I love this thread.
Veni Vidi Vorbis.

New Lossy Audio Codec

Reply #41 –
I no longer need photoshop to add noise + motion blur my images!!

How about doing the same on jpeg files?

New Lossy Audio Codec

Reply #42 –
How exactly does one go about doing this (converting a JPG/BMP to WAV)? I've tried that program posted earlier (Bitmaps and Waves) and when I convert the picture wav back to a picture, I kinda get the picture, but it's severly distorted...

New Lossy Audio Codec

Reply #43 –
I think that with OGG 64kbps those my pictures would look a way better

New Lossy Audio Codec

Reply #44 –
I call BS on XoR's picture. I tried doing a image -> audio -> image conversion myself and it was nothing like his. Using any lossy codec I got huge amounts of noise, color shifts, and other garbage. The image was recognizable in outlines and general shapes, but nothing else. The only exception was that I did the same process with flac as a control, and it worked perfectly.

I'm not sure what produced XoR's pic, but it wasn't mp3 or any other audio codec. If you want to see what I got, I uploaded them here:
http://home.earthlink.net/~klyith/forums/lossypic/
The original is 640x480, but I resized all the output ones by 50% to save space & bandwidth. The actually look better when smaller as well, because some of the noise is cut down.

New Lossy Audio Codec

Reply #45 –
Did you compress planes of colour components separately like XoR did? If you compressed whole chunk at once then this is why your results differ so much.

New Lossy Audio Codec

Reply #46 –
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Did you compress planes of colour components separately like XoR did? If you compressed whole chunk at once then this is why your results differ so much.

Yes, I did both three seperate files for RGB color and an interleaved style raw file, they were not substantially different.

However, I was just messing with PSP and found it had nore options for exporting raw than photoshop. So I tried a planar (non-interleaved) raw file. That ended up being totally different. See here. It has odd problems, but there are areas much better definition is preserved. Wtf?

I think maybe my methodology is flawed somehow. Here's what I'm doing:
1. Save as raw using
  a) Photoshop - three files for seperate channels
  b) Photoshop - one interleaved raw file
  c) PSP - one planar raw file
2. Import raw files as pcm using Audacity
3. Save as 16bit 44khz wav files
4. Convert to lossy
5. Convert back to wav (using foobar)
6. Strip wav headers using StripHdr.exe
7. Import raw file as image

I guess I'm not as dubious of Xor's pic anymore, but it still looks artificial to me. Hrmph. I need a more detailed explanation of how other people are generating their results.

New Lossy Audio Codec

Reply #47 –
Here's an example of aoTuV beta 4 at -q 0, the raw file is 288 kB, the Vorbis only 46 kB.



[edit]Actually, I take back the part about interleaving, it doesn't matter (just tried with it.) Just make sure you're processing the raw file as 8 bit all the time and it'll work fine apparently.[/edit]

New Lossy Audio Codec

Reply #48 –
OK, suddenly I got it working perfectly. Sorry I doubted everyone.

I was screwing up something with the bitness when importing to audacity. It seems to make random guesses about the pcm when you do that... Anyways, the important thing is to use unsigned 8-bit. I was also confused by the options for endianness that seem to have no effect.

I was experimenting on a different pic and found that an image with vertical structures and lots of contrast works really well. You can actually see the pre/post-echo. I'll put up some images tomorrow to make up for my earlier stupidity.

New Lossy Audio Codec

Reply #49 –
I did it again

I must say I didn't compress alla layers separalely. That was my idea of how I would do color image before I really started to do this (2 years ago). Practice shows that it wasn't necessary

Now I do some comparsion of audio codec on my 17' monitor and 24bit RGB images and I must say that what I heard is the same I really can see 

MPC - increase contrast and saturation of images
MP3 - on the contrary decrease contrast a bit
OGG - do perfectly from all above and show oryginal colors
WV - I see no diffrence from oryginal picture (best audio picture codec :] )
OFS - the are any diffrences too !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Later I will make some pictures for public wiev and give url's