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Topic: What opus is designed for? (Read 7697 times) previous topic - next topic
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What opus is designed for?

I'm new to opus and I have a question. Does opus designed for music or for speech? If it design for speech does it mean i t will not sound good for  music? I find this codec very interesting because it has smaller file size than mp3 and aac at similar bitrate.
I will think about tomorrow's problem tomorrow

What opus is designed for?

Reply #3 –
Quote from: Incuriousity on
I find this codec very interesting because it has smaller file size than mp3 and aac at similar bitrate.

One small correction, if I may.

Given the same bitrate the files will be similar in size. What you probably mean is that given some bitrate the (perceived) sound quality is higher, so you can get away with a lower bitrate for the same quality.
E.g. see https://www.opus-codec.org/comparison/.
"I hear it when I see it."

What opus is designed for?

Reply #4 –
Quote from: xnor on
Quote from: Incuriousity on
I find this codec very interesting because it has smaller file size than mp3 and aac at similar bitrate.

One small correction, if I may.

Given the same bitrate the files will be similar in size. What you probably mean is that given some bitrate the (perceived) sound quality is higher, so you can get away with a lower bitrate for the same quality.
E.g. see https://www.opus-codec.org/comparison/.

I'm not sure. What I do is encode 1 of song to mp3 v1, qaac q100 and opus 224. Since all of this setting is vbr so I can't exactly say what is the actual bitrate but all of them should be around 224 kbps
I will think about tomorrow's problem tomorrow

What opus is designed for?

Reply #5 –
Quote from: Incuriousity on
What I do is encode 1 of song to mp3 v1, qaac q100 and opus 224. Since all of this setting is vbr so I can't exactly say what is the actual bitrate but all of them should be around 224 kbps


At such a high bitrate there will be very little difference between modern formats and so the exact one you choose isn't very important. 

What opus is designed for?

Reply #6 –
Quote from: saratoga on
Quote from: Incuriousity on
What I do is encode 1 of song to mp3 v1, qaac q100 and opus 224. Since all of this setting is vbr so I can't exactly say what is the actual bitrate but all of them should be around 224 kbps


At such a high bitrate there will be very little difference between modern formats and so the exact one you choose isn't very important.

Its do matter because I see that opus file size is smaller than aac and mp3.
I will think about tomorrow's problem tomorrow

What opus is designed for?

Reply #7 –
File size is something you decide, not the format.  At the file sizes you have chosen most modern formats will be transparent.

What opus is designed for?

Reply #8 –
Quote from: saratoga on
File size is something you decide, not the format.  At the file sizes you have chosen most modern formats will be transparent.

OK gotcha
I will think about tomorrow's problem tomorrow

What opus is designed for?

Reply #9 –
Quote from: Incuriousity on
I'm not sure. What I do is encode 1 of song to mp3 v1, qaac q100 and opus 224. Since all of this setting is vbr so I can't exactly say what is the actual bitrate but all of them should be around 224 kbps

Well, each encoder is tuned differently so I would expect "similar" (average) VBR settings to result in different file sizes and therefore bitrates for different tracks.

The important thing is not that you get low bitrates for some settings, but that the lossy codec itself produces as high as possible quality IF you demand a low bitrate (or small file size). Opus and AAC are good choices.
"I hear it when I see it."

What opus is designed for?

Reply #10 –
Quote from: xnor on
Quote from: Incuriousity on
I'm not sure. What I do is encode 1 of song to mp3 v1, qaac q100 and opus 224. Since all of this setting is vbr so I can't exactly say what is the actual bitrate but all of them should be around 224 kbps

Well, each encoder is tuned differently so I would expect "similar" (average) VBR settings to result in different file sizes and therefore bitrates for different tracks.

The important thing is not that you get low bitrates for some settings, but that the lossy codec itself produces as high as possible quality IF you demand a low bitrate (or small file size). Opus and AAC are good choices.

OK. Thanks for spending your time here teaching newbie like me. I really appreciate it
I will think about tomorrow's problem tomorrow

What opus is designed for?

Reply #11 –
Try opus at 96 or 112 kbps and then decide if 224 is worth the extra storage space.

What opus is designed for?

Reply #12 –
Quote from: yourlord on
Try opus at 96 or 112 kbps and then decide if 224 is worth the extra storage space.

I have test 128kbps and I can tell difference on abx test. I also can differentiate  QTAAC at 192 kbps. If you want foobar log I can give it to you. So 224 kbps is a safe place for me.
I will think about tomorrow's problem tomorrow

What opus is designed for?

Reply #13 –
Quote from: xnor on
Quote from: Incuriousity on
I'm not sure. What I do is encode 1 of song to mp3 v1, qaac q100 and opus 224. Since all of this setting is vbr so I can't exactly say what is the actual bitrate but all of them should be around 224 kbps

Well, each encoder is tuned differently so I would expect "similar" (average) VBR settings to result in different file sizes and therefore bitrates for different tracks.


To elaborate:

VBR targets quality; it will spend more bits on "hard" material than "easy" material, and that is a good thing. So a codec / an encoder will end up using different bitrates for two pieces of music.

This is of course a guess: not in the sense that the codec randomizes, but in the sense that a lossy codec anyway tries to "guess" what can be discarded at lowest possible cost for sound quality.  So different encoders make different choices, and two codecs will differ when fed the same input file.
If you fed every codec all the music in the world at a "224"-ish setting, they should all end up pretty close if their know their target.  And they are likely not too far off.

What opus is designed for?

Reply #14 –
Quote from: Porcus on
Quote from: xnor on
Quote from: Incuriousity on
I'm not sure. What I do is encode 1 of song to mp3 v1, qaac q100 and opus 224. Since all of this setting is vbr so I can't exactly say what is the actual bitrate but all of them should be around 224 kbps

Well, each encoder is tuned differently so I would expect "similar" (average) VBR settings to result in different file sizes and therefore bitrates for different tracks.


To elaborate:

VBR targets quality; it will spend more bits on "hard" material than "easy" material, and that is a good thing. So a codec / an encoder will end up using different bitrates for two pieces of music.

This is of course a guess: not in the sense that the codec randomizes, but in the sense that a lossy codec anyway tries to "guess" what can be discarded at lowest possible cost for sound quality.  So different encoders make different choices, and two codecs will differ when fed the same input file.
If you fed every codec all the music in the world at a "224"-ish setting, they should all end up pretty close if their know their target.  And they are likely not too far off.

I see. But AAC do encode it far from target bitrate though. It encode the same file with 244 kbps unlike mp3 and opus that encode it at 233 kbps and 229 kbps respectively
I will think about tomorrow's problem tomorrow

What opus is designed for?

Reply #16 –
Quote from: Porcus on
Quote from: Incuriousity on
But AAC do encode it far from target bitrate though.


You are using qaac?
https://github.com/nu774/qaac/wiki/FAQ#q5 ?

No I'm using Apple AAC. I mistype on early post. I should've type qtaac instead of qaac
I will think about tomorrow's problem tomorrow