HydrogenAudio

Hydrogenaudio Forum => Polls => Topic started by: Steve Forte Rio on 2021-01-13 19:04:17

Poll
Question: What is the primary source you listen music from on your portable device?
Option 1: Music bought on physical media, grabbed and copied to my device
Option 2: Online streaming services, paid subscription - Spotify, Youtube Music, Deezer, iTunes, etc
Option 3: Online streaming services, without suscription
Option 4: Online streaming services in offline mode (pre-loading to cache) - poor or too expensive internet connection
Option 5: Tracks/albums (files) bought in online stores
Option 6: Music downloaded from torrent trackers or other sites for free (pirate copies)
Option 7: Own media server
Option 8: Online radio
Option 9: FM radio
Option 10: I use portable CD-player!
Option 11: I don't listen music on portable device
Option 12: Your option in comments
Title: What is the primary source you listen music from on your portable device?
Post by: Steve Forte Rio on 2021-01-13 19:04:17
Hi everyone.
Recently I posted this poll in my Audiophile's Software Telegram channel which somehow covered the russian-speaking audience. And now I'm wondering what the results will be for HA community :)
Feel free to post details of the way you play music on portable devices. Note that it does not matter in this poll if you convert the tracks before loading to device.

Thanks for your votes!
Title: Re: What is the primary source you listen music from on your portable device?
Post by: IgorC on 2021-01-13 19:14:43
SFR, Thank You for the poll!   :D

For me it's online streaming services, paid subscription - Spotify and Tidal (mostly the last one)

I've quit a long time ago to encode music for my devices. It's over.
Title: Re: What is the primary source you listen music from on your portable device?
Post by: Steve Forte Rio on 2021-01-13 19:22:50
I've quit a long time ago to encode music for my devices. It's over.

Sad but true. Looks like nowadays we need lossy audio only for streaming the music online and for calls (Skype, Zoom, etc).

Spotify and Tidal (mostly the last one)
Does Tidal give some benefits other than overkilling audio stream quality?
Title: Re: What is the primary source you listen music from on your portable device?
Post by: IgorC on 2021-01-13 19:28:29
Does Tidal give some benefits other than overkilling audio stream quality?
Spotify uses Vorbis 320k which is excellent.  But most of time I use Tidal (FLAC) for peace of mind and for safety, just in case.
Title: Re: What is the primary source you listen music from on your portable device?
Post by: Markuza97 on 2021-01-13 21:15:59
I still have lots of original CDs and tapes but I use torrents now.
I use torrents because they (music industry) forced me to!
When I buy music - I want music. I don't want some brickwalled shit.
Everything that is on sale today is brickwalled shit.
Here's a quick comparison of "2Pac - Brenda's Got A Baby".
First picture is the original release, second picture is the new release.
Look at that dynamic range of the new version.
Ohhh that's right. It doesn't have any dynamic range.
Title: Re: What is the primary source you listen music from on your portable device?
Post by: ManekiNeko on 2021-01-13 23:42:43
I still have lots of original CDs and tapes but I use torrents now.
I use torrents because they (music industry) forced me to!
When I buy music - I want music. I don't want some brickwalled shit.
Everything that is on sale today is brickwalled shit.
Here's a quick comparison of "2Pac - Brenda's Got A Baby".
First picture is the original release, second picture is the new release.
Look at that dynamic range of the new version.
Ohhh that's right. It doesn't have any dynamic range.


I’m very sensitive to poor dynamic range and hate most modern mastering techniques. It doesn’t bother me too much as I can’t stand the majority of modern music either.

Most of my CDs are originals from the 80s and early 90s which I’ve slowly put together over the years. Nowadays it’s much harder of course but I do get the odd great CD from the likes of EBay and Discogs for cheap. If I had to resort to torrents I’d lose any pleasure that I’m still able to glean from new music discoveries these days.
Title: Re: What is the primary source you listen music from on your portable device?
Post by: Alexander Ostuni on 2021-01-14 12:55:15
I would have needed two choices. Bought CDs that I ripped and Music bought from Itunes/Amazon
Title: Re: What is the primary source you listen music from on your portable device?
Post by: guruboolez on 2021-01-14 17:28:12
Old school: I'm playing local files, mainly music I ripped from CD or coming from internet (store…).

I spent a full year with an access to a streaming service (Primephonic, an excellent service dedicated to classical music only with curated metadata). But experience was not that good for my usage. No or poor cellular network when listening in a car, or walking in the woods or the countryside. Software is also a disappointment, mostly because browsing/organizing favorite albums/tracks is not intuitive. On the other side the service is very nice for discovering music, and it's almost Christmas every day as I can access to all new releases.  But I don't have so much free time to discover so many stuff.

I'm currently trying Tidal (free months subscription), and it's even worse for my usage (classical mixed with other genres). So I rarely start the application.

Few months ago I started to fill again my tablet and my phone: it offers a smooth and pleasing experience. The local library is much smaller, but also more friendly. It's more than enough for me. And I must say that listening to what I encode myself, or seeing the album art I sometimes cleaned or improved, gives me an additional pleasure :)
Title: Re: What is the primary source you listen music from on your portable device?
Post by: C.R.Helmrich on 2021-01-15 00:07:30
Me too. Ripped my 1990s/2000s CD collection to FLAC a few years ago and now created a low-bitrate xHE-AAC version of that collection for casual listening. I rarely buy music of the Internet nowadays, also prefer buying used CDs off eBay, like Maneniko, for the same reason as Markuza97 (modern productions/remasters often have very little dynamic range).

Chris
Title: Re: What is the primary source you listen music from on your portable device?
Post by: IgorC on 2021-01-15 00:29:48
I'm surprised that online services isn't the most popular option  ???

Online service is very time efficient when it comes to try some new albums or explore a new artists, songs, compilations, lists.
Instead of looking for some news about my favorite genres I just put some compilations, TOP most popular Rock/Metal etc. 
It saves a lof of time.
Title: Re: What is the primary source you listen music from on your portable device?
Post by: probedb on 2021-01-15 08:35:26
Old school: I'm playing local files, mainly music I ripped from CD or coming from internet (store…).

Me too, currently deciding what to encode the new collection to as everything is ripped as FLAC but for my phone I've just stuck with MP3. I've tried Spotify etc but just can't get on with them. My other half insists on using youtube....not even youtube music while in the car and that app still won't play in the background unless you pay.

Re streaming formats, I'm similar with video, I buy and rip everything but still have Netflix etc. Basically if my broadband goes down I don't particularly care, or if Netflix is having an off day I still have all my ripped stuff to watch or listen to.
Title: Re: What is the primary source you listen music from on your portable device?
Post by: guruboolez on 2021-01-15 08:54:29
I'm surprised that online services isn't the most popular option  ???
It's probably a highly popular option outside HA.org. This community was originally born around local music: encoders, CD ripping, playback (foobar2000). It also seems that the activity narrowed a lot over the years, so I guess that many people left HA.org when they gave up with managing audio files (which is time and space consuming, and as you say not efficient at all). Diehards users are still here, and the remaining persons here are for sure not representative of the general population :)

If I was 20 years old today, I would probably buy a streaming subscription (much less expensive than CDs I bought at the same age) and no CD. I would maybe buy some vinyls albums (but no turntable) or collector CD box to satisfy some basic fetichist impulses. I'm quite sure that downloading legal or illegal MP3/FLAC/HiRes albums would never cross my mind.
Title: Re: What is the primary source you listen music from on your portable device?
Post by: Steve Forte Rio on 2021-01-15 16:22:56
It's probably a highly popular option outside HA.org.
For my community (according to ~150 votes in Telegram and VK.com) it's about 1/3 who uses online streaming services subscription. And yes, I believe outside the "audiophiles"/enthusiasts communities it's even higher.
Title: Re: What is the primary source you listen music from on your portable device?
Post by: C.R.Helmrich on 2021-01-15 20:23:50
Agreed. Staying with (or sourcing from) physical media is an enthusiast's approach, I'd say, which, among HA members, is likely much more common. Outside of HA, I don't know anyone else doing what I do, manually ripping CDs or listening to vinyl (except for one musician). They all listen to Spotify etc.

Chris
Title: Re: What is the primary source you listen music from on your portable device?
Post by: Jak90 on 2021-01-15 23:36:34
Maybe something has changed, but I disliked Spotify just because of it's UI. I have unlimited data plan so streaming music on phone would make sense, but I much rather listen to my offline collection with Poweramp.

That and the fact that streaming sites often have newest and "greatest" remasters that often do not sound as good as earlier releases (previously mentioned dynamic range problem).
Title: Re: What is the primary source you listen music from on your portable device?
Post by: kode54 on 2021-01-16 03:03:50
I'm never out and about any more, I've been out maybe twice since last February. And all the times when I did go out, I needed to be fully aware of my surroundings at all times, so I never listen to music on portable devices anyway.
Title: Re: What is the primary source you listen music from on your portable device?
Post by: Jak90 on 2021-01-16 17:24:26
I needed to be fully aware of my surroundings at all times, so I never listen to music on portable devices anyway.

I always use only 1 earbud for the same reason.
Title: Re: What is the primary source you listen music from on your portable device?
Post by: tehabe on 2021-01-17 01:36:21
Mostly I use just YouTube Music but I still have my CD collection and I continue to buy CDs. For example Captain Beefheart's Trout Mask Replica isn't available on (most) streaming services. Also YouTube Music is missing a lot of Aimee Mann's discography. But you can upload music to YouTube Music.
Title: Re: What is the primary source you listen music from on your portable device?
Post by: Case on 2021-01-23 08:10:38
I prefer buying the music I like. Mostly CDs but any lossless stores are fine too. I want to be in control of the media so I can edit the tracks if need be, use ReplayGain and DSPs. IMO streaming services offer poor experience. Too many times tracks disappear from the library or tags contain typos or entirely incorrect information. I use streaming services only on the computer for sampling new music.
Title: Re: What is the primary source you listen music from on your portable device?
Post by: DARcode on 2021-01-27 23:08:12
Ripping the CDs I buy to lossless is still my main thing, but I'm getting lazy so since most vinyl purchases now come with free lossy downloads I often settle for that, sometimes I buy it a second time in FLAC format on Bandcamp.
Title: Re: What is the primary source you listen music from on your portable device?
Post by: For Serious on 2021-03-02 18:34:07
I have over 200 tracks that I listen to regularly that have edits and optimizations done to them. I have also done declipping on most everything I have. Streaming will never be an option for me, unless I am granted the rights to create my own streaming service with all the changes I've made.
Title: Re: What is the primary source you listen music from on your portable device?
Post by: pr0m3th3u5 on 2021-03-29 17:03:12
I have over 200 tracks that I listen to regularly that have edits and optimizations done to them. I have also done declipping on most everything I have. Streaming will never be an option for me, unless I am granted the rights to create my own streaming service with all the changes I've made.

You should check out Funkwhale-- https://homelabos.com/docs/software/funkwhale/
Title: Re: What is the primary source you listen music from on your portable device?
Post by: synclagz on 2021-03-30 19:12:37
Old school: I'm playing local files, mainly music I ripped from CD or coming from internet (store…).

Same here. But I must admit that maintaining music arhive (also movies) is really time consuming.
Streaming services are "fire and forget" usually.
But I like my own audio collection. When you are paying for streaming service, you are using something that is not yours. If you decide to quit the service, nothing remains. Local audio archive is always available and it's yours. :)
Title: Re: What is the primary source you listen music from on your portable device?
Post by: U2021 on 2021-05-18 22:19:04
I download from YouTube Music & losslessly extract audio from it!
Title: Re: What is the primary source you listen music from on your portable device?
Post by: Arlong13 on 2021-05-19 02:26:18
deemix for windows and aids for android.And listen from youtube
Title: Re: What is the primary source you listen music from on your portable device?
Post by: ScarletNeko on 2021-05-19 02:43:16
I try to download my music to have it on my local storage all the time I can, and the biggest part of it is lossless. I do like to take the time to encode, to tag (or fix tags) if needed, to find the album arts if they are missing, and overall keep them as compressed as possible while keeping it lossless. Most of my stuff is flac, but a few of them are in other formats. I particularly like TAK for multichannel audio, WavPack for 32bit files and TTA for single track+cue stuff.
The same goes for my mobile device, the music I listen on my smartphone is stored on an SD card, and for my phone I convert anything beyond CD quality to hybrid wavpack, where I reduce the bitrate to around 1411kbps due to low sotrage space. But I do prefer the inconveniences of keeping a local library over using online services everyday for quite a few reasons, one of them being that a lot of things I like is pretty niche and it's not available via streaming, some aren't even on youtube!
On my PC I use foobar2000 and on my smartphone I use Poweramp, but I also like to listen to FM radio sometimes
Title: Re: What is the primary source you listen music from on your portable device?
Post by: johnwong on 2021-05-19 04:27:15
I download from YouTube Music & losslessly extract audio from it!
May I ask how to do that.
Title: Re: What is the primary source you listen music from on your portable device?
Post by: jaybeee on 2021-05-19 08:13:35
I download from YouTube Music & losslessly extract audio from it!
May I ask how to do that.
I, and I'm sure others, could tell you, but I think it would violate TOS#9 (https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php?topic=3974#post_tos9):
Quote from: HA.org
TOS 9. All members must refrain from posting links to -- or information regarding how to obtain -- material that is copyrighted and being distributed without authorization or is otherwise illegal.  Discussion containing information of how to obtain such material, how to bypass protection methodologies of such material, or how to otherwise violate laws pertaining to such matters will not be tolerated.
And is also likely the reason no-one has said they chose "Music downloaded from torrent trackers or other sites for free (pirate copies)" from the poll's option.
Title: Re: What is the primary source you listen music from on your portable device?
Post by: ajp9 on 2021-05-19 21:19:15
The tools used to download videos from YouTube aren't illegal themselves. When the content is free and without copyright, for example, there's no legal issue. Google/YouTube, of course, doesn't like the use of third-party tools to download their streams, especially if it means bypassing ads. But they don't care so much as long as you actually play the videos so people get paid.

The subject of downloading free but copyrighted streams is not the same as illegally hosted files or illegally downloading files. Your browser caches streams to the hard drive when it needs to, and sometimes they stay on the drive as long the browser or your settings see fit. If stream caching is illegal, then everyone's browser is breaking the law. Ultimately, it's when you copy or distribute copyrighted content — that is illegal. YouTube could sue you if you sell or monetize someone else's copyrighted content from their site without permission.

Free, cached stream content is legal so long as it's used as intended. If you were to play through a video, then download the same video stream for personal use only, that could be considered replaying it.

Either way, there is another reason to not post the answer on how to download YouTube on the forum: sometimes a tool is removed because a company or organization managed to strong-arm the hosting site or abuse DMCA to get it removed. You'll get a more current answer by googling how.
Title: Re: What is the primary source you listen music from on your portable device?
Post by: U2021 on 2021-05-20 10:20:02
The tools used to download videos from YouTube aren't illegal themselves. When the content is free and without copyright, for example, there's no legal issue. Google/YouTube, of course, doesn't like the use of third-party tools to download their streams, especially if it means bypassing ads. But they don't care so much as long as you actually play the videos so people get paid.

The subject of downloading free but copyrighted streams is not the same as illegally hosted files or illegally downloading files. Your browser caches streams to the hard drive when it needs to, and sometimes they stay on the drive as long the browser or your settings see fit. If stream caching is illegal, then everyone's browser is breaking the law. Ultimately, it's when you copy or distribute copyrighted content — that is illegal. YouTube could sue you if you sell or monetize someone else's copyrighted content from their site without permission.

Free, cached stream content is legal so long as it's used as intended. If you were to play through a video, then download the same video stream for personal use only, that could be considered replaying it.

Either way, there is another reason to not post the answer on how to download YouTube on the forum: sometimes a tool is removed because a company or organization managed to strong-arm the hosting site or abuse DMCA to get it removed. You'll get a more current answer by googling how.

Yes, as you said, all downloading tools (for Google) are legal, otherwise, Google would have encrypted the files like Spotify.
Grabbing files from YouTube is like ripping your DVD/BD: you don't pay for watching videos on YouTube.
You can download streams from web version of Spotify, but the downloaded files are encrypted & after 10 secs, stops playing!
Is it illegal to grab a file from Spotify?
Title: Re: What is the primary source you listen music from on your portable device?
Post by: U2021 on 2021-05-20 10:36:45
I download from YouTube Music & losslessly extract audio from it!
May I ask how to do that.
I, and I'm sure others, could tell you, but I think it would violate TOS#9 (https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php?topic=3974#post_tos9):
Quote from: HA.org
TOS 9. All members must refrain from posting links to -- or information regarding how to obtain -- material that is copyrighted and being distributed without authorization or is otherwise illegal.  Discussion containing information of how to obtain such material, how to bypass protection methodologies of such material, or how to otherwise violate laws pertaining to such matters will not be tolerated.
And is also likely the reason no-one has said they chose "Music downloaded from torrent trackers or other sites for free (pirate copies)" from the poll's option.

Most of users are pirates :D
Title: Re: What is the primary source you listen music from on your portable device?
Post by: jaybeee on 2021-05-20 18:55:25
The only reason I made my comment referencing the TOS 9 for this site are to make users aware that posting links to programs that allow one to capture the audio may violate such TOS.
I use some myself.
I personally think discussing such tools/apps/progs isn't a problem, but I think it's something this site doesn't like.
Direct linking to warez/mp3download etc etc sites is far enough to not be posted (who uses them in 2021 anyway?).
Title: Re: What is the primary source you listen music from on your portable device?
Post by: U2021 on 2021-05-20 22:22:03
The only reason I made my comment referencing the TOS 9 for this site are to make users aware that posting links to programs that allow one to capture the audio may violate such TOS.
I use some myself.
I personally think discussing such tools/apps/progs isn't a problem, but I think it's something this site doesn't like.
Direct linking to warez/mp3download etc etc sites is far enough to not be posted (who uses them in 2021 anyway?).

I only do this because mobile data plans are so high & I can't afford buying subscription for lossy format! Tidal prices is too high!
Title: Re: What is the primary source you listen music from on your portable device?
Post by: doccolinni on 2021-05-25 17:32:18
I download from YouTube Music & losslessly extract audio from it!
May I ask how to do that.
I, and I'm sure others, could tell you, but I think it would violate TOS#9 (https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php?topic=3974#post_tos9):
Quote from: HA.org
TOS 9. All members must refrain from posting links to -- or information regarding how to obtain -- material that is copyrighted and being distributed without authorization or is otherwise illegal.  Discussion containing information of how to obtain such material, how to bypass protection methodologies of such material, or how to otherwise violate laws pertaining to such matters will not be tolerated.

There is actually a very good blog post by GitHub (https://github.blog/2020-11-16-standing-up-for-developers-youtube-dl-is-back/) on this very subject:
Quote
after we received new information that showed the youtube-dl project does not in fact violate the DMCA‘s anticircumvention prohibitions, we concluded that the allegations did not establish a violation of the law.
This "new information" itself being an excellent response written by the Electronic Frontier Foundation (https://raw.githubusercontent.com/github/dmca/master/2020/11/2020-11-16-RIAA-reversal-effletter.pdf):
Quote
First, youtube-dl does not infringe or encourage the infringement of any copyrighted works, and its references to copyrighted songs in its unit tests are a fair use. Nevertheless, youtube-dl’s maintainers are replacing these references. Second, youtube-dl does not violate Section 1201 of the DMCA because it does not “circumvent” any technical protection measures on YouTube videos. Similarly, the “signature” or “rolling cipher” mechanism employed by YouTube does not prevent copying of videos. Below we explain each of these points in more detail.

Obviously, read both of those in full for more details.
Title: Re: What is the primary source you listen music from on your portable device?
Post by: Melchior on 2021-06-11 04:35:42
I listen to mainly vgm (video game music), especially RPG music...
extracted from the games files over the years by diehard fans...
Title: Re: What is the primary source you listen music from on your portable device?
Post by: redorb on 2021-06-14 09:11:31
Here's a quick comparison of "2Pac - Brenda's Got A Baby".
First picture is the original release, second picture is the new release.
Look at that dynamic range of the new version.
Ohhh that's right. It doesn't have any dynamic range.
Hello!
What dynamic range meter is used here?
Is there one for integrating in foobar?
Thanks...
Best regards
Title: Re: What is the primary source you listen music from on your portable device?
Post by: kode54 on 2021-06-14 23:26:36
That's just a screen shot of Audacity with both tracks loaded into it.
Title: Re: What is the primary source you listen music from on your portable device?
Post by: redorb on 2021-06-15 07:45:44
Thanks!
Title: Re: What is the primary source you listen music from on your portable device?
Post by: jdimsa on 2021-08-12 07:15:43
Primarily FLAC downloads from bandcamp, hdtracks, hiresaudio, qobuz. I always convert to 16/44.1 libFLAC level 8, if the files served are higher resolution (bandcamp serves 16/44.1 optionally) -- as hi-res is pointless for listening. Noise floor of 16-bit inaudible, frequency range capability of >44.1kHz also inaudible.

Keep all the FLACs on my PC (3 backups) and encode down to 256kbps Opus for mobile listening. Simple as.

I see a lot of people on here using very low bitrates (64-128kbps). New codecs such as Opus and xHE-AAC can achieve good quality at these bitrates, sure, but I don't see the point of pinching for space like that when a 512GB microSD card is so cheap. I would rather have guaranteed transparency.