http://lists.xiph.org/pipermail/opus/2013-July/002158.html (http://lists.xiph.org/pipermail/opus/2013-July/002158.html)
Please can anyone compile it for Windows so I can start testing?
I may just need to learn how to at least compile.
Thanks.
I've tried out a few samples and happy to report that the new beta sounds fantastic. To my ears, most samples sound close to transparent at 64 Kbps and completely transparent at 96 Kbps, except for a few known difficult ones which still sound pretty great. The new features make a big quality improvement in some cases (looking at you, harpsichord) and the previous glitches relating to extreme cases (e.g. sine wave sweeps) seem to have been ironed out.
Very impressed guys. This deserves to get adopted very quickly and I'd highly recommend it becomes the default choice for all new projects requiring non-lossless audio compression.
Lovely, been waiting for Opus to update it, was some time ago.
Hope that it improve low bitrate peformance, read through, and didn´t quite get the lot of it, but it seems they have made quite the optimization on different scenarios.
Nice to see the beta finally up here. Apart from the temporal VBR and surround tunings there doesn't seem to be much of a difference to the exp build from this (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=100447&st=0) topic though, same peaks and bitrates.
NullC, what's about the several tonal samples that are ABXable up to 192 kbps, are they maybe fixable in the future? I've also made more or less a suggestion here (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=100447&view=findpost&p=838618) about handling tonality a bit more varied by giving more bits to certain notes than to other ones, how realistic/sensible does that seem to you?
That is good news actually! But what is necessary to make Opus real competitor to MP3 & AAC from my point of view:
1) Beat AAC in low and high bitrates
2) Have good implementation of decoder for different hardware devices
3) Be well supported in hardware area (car audio, portable players etc if 2) is satisfied)
4) Wide promotion of Opus benefits
It is very difficult to take a worthy share on the market.
I'd like to say many thanks to Opus developers and good luck for all open source fans!
For music playback, they need native support in Android. Native support in iPhoneOS would be nice as well, but it's unlikely that Apple would care.
I knew about these test but codecs improved a lot since 2010, isn't time to test again?
I see. So the switch is there to conserve power otherwise "wasted" by resampling.
BTW, is there any reason there is no option/automatic calculation of the audio checksum? Is it because opus is aimed at realtime usage scenarios/packet loss masking?
Well, since editing is not possible, here's the new run with SVN rockbox/opus 1.1:
# This plugin will log your battery performance in a
# file (//battery_bench.txt) every minute.
# To properly test your battery:
# 1) Select and playback an album. (Be sure to be more than the player's buffer)
# 2) Set to repeat.
# 3) Let the player run completely out of battery.
# 4) Recharge and copy (or whatever you want) the txt file to your computer.
# Now you can make graphs with the data of the battery log.
# Do not enter another plugin during the test or else the
# logging activity will end.
# P.S: You can decide how you will make your tests.
# Just don't open another plugin to be sure that your log will continue.
# Battery bench run for Sandisk Sansa Clip+ version 5ba7e2c-130716
# Battery type: 290 mAh Buffer Entries: 1000
# Rockbox has been running for 00:30:51
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09:05:38, 32738, 013%, 01:59, 3669, -, -, -
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09:09:39, 32979, 013%, 01:59, 3668, -, -, -
09:10:39, 33039, 012%, 01:49, 3667, -, -, -
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09:12:39, 33159, 012%, 01:49, 3665, -, -, -
09:13:39, 33219, 012%, 01:49, 3665, -, -, -
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09:15:39, 33339, 012%, 01:49, 3663, -, -, -
09:16:39, 33399, 012%, 01:49, 3664, -, -, -
09:17:39, 33459, 011%, 01:40, 3662, -, -, -
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09:22:39, 33759, 011%, 01:40, 3660, -, -, -
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09:25:39, 33939, 010%, 01:31, 3655, -, -, -
09:26:39, 33999, 010%, 01:31, 3653, -, -, -
09:27:39, 34059, 009%, 01:22, 3652, -, -, -
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09:29:39, 34179, 009%, 01:22, 3647, -, -, -
09:30:39, 34239, 009%, 01:22, 3641, -, -, -
09:31:39, 34299, 009%, 01:22, 3638, -, -, -
09:32:39, 34359, 009%, 01:22, 3633, -, -, -
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09:37:39, 34659, 008%, 01:13, 3609, -, -, -
09:38:39, 34719, 008%, 01:13, 3603, -, -, -
09:39:39, 34779, 008%, 01:13, 3596, -, -, -
09:40:39, 34839, 008%, 01:13, 3591, -, -, -
09:41:39, 34899, 008%, 01:13, 3583, -, -, -
09:42:39, 34959, 007%, 01:04, 3575, -, -, -
09:43:39, 35019, 007%, 01:04, 3571, -, -, -
09:44:39, 35079, 007%, 01:04, 3562, -, -, -
09:45:39, 35139, 007%, 01:04, 3554, -, -, -
09:46:39, 35199, 007%, 00:59, 3548, -, -, -
09:47:39, 35259, 006%, 00:54, 3538, -, -, -
09:48:39, 35319, 006%, 00:54, 3530, -, -, -
09:49:39, 35379, 006%, 00:54, 3520, -, -, -
09:50:39, 35439, 006%, 00:54, 3512, -, -, -
09:50:40, 35440, 005%, 00:50, 3511, -, -, -
09:51:40, 35500, 005%, 00:45, 3501, -, -, -
09:52:40, 35560, 005%, 00:45, 3492, -, -, -
09:53:40, 35620, 005%, 00:45, 3481, -, -, -
09:54:40, 35680, 004%, 00:36, 3470, -, -, -
09:55:40, 35740, 004%, 00:36, 3458, -, -, -
09:56:40, 35800, 004%, 00:36, 3447, -, -, -
09:57:40, 35860, 003%, 00:27, 3432, -, -, -
09:58:40, 35920, 003%, 00:27, 3419, -, -, -
09:59:40, 35980, 002%, 00:18, 3404, -, -, -
10:00:40, 36040, 002%, 00:18, 3389, -, -, -
10:01:40, 36100, 002%, 00:18, 3371, -, -, -
10:02:40, 36160, 001%, 00:09, 3352, -, -, -
10:03:40, 36220, 000%, 00:09, 3334, -, -, -
10:04:40, 36280, 000%, 00:09, 3311, -, -, -
--Battery bench ended, reason: power off--
Basically, same runtime as before. Mixer was set to 48kHz, files are vbr@160kbps
edit: Or not. It seems the voltage is dropping slightly faster in the new run. Here's the old one for comparison:
[code]# This plugin will log your battery performance in a
# file (//battery_bench.txt) every minute.
# To properly test your battery:
# 1) Select and playback an album. (Be sure to be more than the player's buffer)
# 2) Set to repeat.
# 3) Let the player run completely out of battery.
# 4) Recharge and copy (or whatever you want) the txt file to your computer.
# Now you can make graphs with the data of the battery log.
# Do not enter another plugin during the test or else the
# logging activity will end.
# P.S: You can decide how you will make your tests.
# Just don't open another plugin to be sure that your log will continue.
# Battery bench run for Sandisk Sansa Clip+ version 3.13
# Battery type: 290 mAh Buffer Entries: 1000
# Rockbox has been running for 00:01:20
# Time:, Seconds:, Level:, Time Left:, Voltage[mV]:, C:, S:, U:
00:00:00, 00000, 100%, 15:15, 4146, -, -, -
00:01:00, 00060, 100%, 15:15, 4147, -, -, -
00:02:00, 00120, 100%, 15:15, 4145, -, -, -
00:03:00, 00180, 100%, 15:15, 4143, -, -, -
00:04:00, 00240, 100%, 15:15, 4141, -, -, -
00:05:00, 00300, 099%, 15:06, 4139, -, -, -
00:06:00, 00360, 099%, 15:06, 4138, -, -, -
00:07:00, 00420, 099%, 15:06, 4137, -, -, -
00:08:00, 00480, 099%, 15:06, 4134, -, -, -
00:09:00, 00540, 099%, 15:06, 4132, -, -, -
00:10:00, 00600, 098%, 14:57, 4130, -, -, -
00:11:00, 00660, 098%, 14:57, 4130, -, -, -
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04:31:02, 16
I have edited the History section (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opus_%28audio_format%29#History) of the English Wikipedia Opus (audio format) page to summarise the improvements and link to Monty's beta release information.
That spectrogram has been there since I started editing the page (mainly to provide References via Google Scholar search and to explain the use cases).
If you click through the image, you can compare the same file with other codecs. It would be sensible to mention that spectrograms of lossy codecs are not especially indicative of audio fidelity.
I would say it's far less informative than an animation such as that used for the bitrate sweep on the Opus Codec Example (http://opus-codec.org/examples/) page. I note that the CC attribution license of that site may allow use of the content on Wikipedia - e.g. a video of that example sweep or a simple animation without sound.
The other thing that's usefully shown in spectrograms is illustration of some of the technical detail in the CELT development pages, but that's too in-depth for Wikipedia.
I've encoded my collection with the new beta at 96kbps VBR setting and i should say that i really like what i hear. I've listened to these files all week with my Beyer DT-770 and my Fiio E10 while programming and artifacts were very rare.
One of the bad quality tracks i've found was Das Boot from U96. For me it seems like a pre-echo problem on the synth percussions when they're played on the left channel only. I can't upload a sample now but i'll do it tomorrow.
What i've also noticed is that if i downmix stereo opus files into mono there's often a weird warbling introduced in the mid-high range. I think it's mostly noticeable on files with complex stereo separation and high tonal content. I know it's not a typical use case but i'm listening to music through an USB FM transmitter when i'm at my parents house and when a receiver is far away from the transmitter it falls back to Mono. I've thought that the transmitter is making the distortion but if i add a Mono downmix DSP into Foobar it yields the same problem on my headphones (FM stereo transmits mono signal by mixing L+R together for backward compatibility with old receivers and sends an L-R sideband signal for stereo reconstruction but that's only available when the signal is strong enough). Is there anything i can do to improve this or this is the price of the channel masking of Opus?
There is a paper that describes how Opus (CELT part) actually works. Found it interesting
http://jmvalin.ca/papers/aes135_opus_celt.pdf (http://jmvalin.ca/papers/aes135_opus_celt.pdf)
Uploaded the lossless and opus 1.1-beta encoded sample here: Das Boot (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=101993)
I'm reading the documentation IgorC linked and just got noticed that Opus has an intensity stereo encoding mode.
"When set, we invert the right channel, producing two channels 180 degrees out of phase."
Does that mean that the mono downmix problem occurs at those spots where Opus encodes with IS? If it's so is there a way to disable IS and use Mid-Side Stereo / Stereo only when encoding? I wonder if it's possible is the VBR algorithm smart enough to choose a higher bitrate when IS is not available and forced to use MS/S modes.
Jmvalin, while the new beta sounds in general pretty good there are still the old problems with tonality, especially sharp guitar strikes. It aren't a few killer samples, but a lot of acoustic guitar stuff that just isn't transparent at 192 kbps because of that, despite the use of the tonality detector. Do you see anything still possible for improvement on that?
Gainless, when you press reply the editor starts out with a fullquote of the post you're replying to, but please don't leave it that way. The post you're replying to is already in the thread for everyone to see; repeating the entire post, as you've done with every post in this thread, just wastes space and makes the conversation more difficult to follow. If you think you need to quote something to make things clear, just quote the part you're directly replying to at the point in your post where you're replying to it, as jmvalin did. In this instance the only part of jmvalin's post which made any sense for you to quote was the sentence "Can you come up with one sample that best demonstrates the problem you're talking about?" But you really didn't even need to quote that, as it was obvious that was what you were replying to (e.g. no other posts were made between his and yours).
Could you pinpoint the artifacts a little more? It may be just because I'm not the most artifact-sensitive listener, but I can't seem to find what you're talking about on any of the three clips.
Yeah, sorry, wasn't the best idea with full quote. The artifact on Streamline I ABXed is at the string around 2,5 seconds. For the other samples you just need to listen to the lowest notes with the most fuzz/resonance, it should be pretty obvious at 96 kbps and below.
meh. please delete.
I've found a sample that has unusual artifacts when I encode it at 32 kbps. It seems to rapidly switch between mono and stereo at around 6 seconds, and again at around 9 seconds.
[attachment=7621:qualia-sample.flac]
Aha, so the problem I have with this sample is that the SILK frames are stereo but the CELT frames are mono. I'm not familiar with Opus's VBR algorithm at all, but would it make sense to use the same "stereo amount" decision for both CELT and SILK?
What causes fixed frame size of 20 ms to sound "noisy" at 128 kbps, whereas 10 ms and variable frame size tend to sound "metallic"? These are very subtle effects, which are not always noticeable and ABX-able, but they definitely exist. So I would like to hear a possible theoretical explanation.
At 20 ms you can use all transform sizes. At 10 ms, I believe the largest transform size is disabled to hit the latency target, hence compression is not as good.
If you're forcing the encoder to work within narrower constraints, you should expect to have to give it a higher bitrate to achieve the same quality. 10ms lower latency definitely comes at a cost.
On the other hand, if forcing the encoder to use a fixed frame size gives you results that are ABXably superior to the encoder defaults, you may have found a bug, and posting a short sample of the music in question might help pinpoint the problem.
Well, 10 and 20 ms have similar quality at 128k. The first google link for "opus codec 4 pdf", pg 25.
At some sufficiently high rate I expect 10ms to become frequently better than 20ms, but I expect that the rate that this happens is high enough that determining the exact rate is hard, and that its somewhat content dependent... and the encoder isn't yet smart enough to do this.
I think the main drawback of variable frame size (or any other adaptive variable technique) is that the variation of artifact (or mixing different artifacts) calls more attention than the artifact itself. There were some AAC encoders with "variable lowpass" and I perceive its variation as a "metallic" artifact or a hiss. AFAIK a hysteresis algorithms are used to solve this.
The results for electronic music (two tracks from Nine Inch Nails albums).
"While Im still here" tracks was ok for 1.1beta and 1.1surround. "In This Twilight" brought some issues for 1.1beta and surround builds. It seems like 1.1x tries to save some bitrate on narrow stereo but there is a strong transient.
Samples http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....st&p=847786 (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=101993&view=findpost&p=847786)
1.1x unnecessary increases bitrate on a dithered silence. http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....st&p=848312 (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=101993&view=findpost&p=848312)
Could anyone link me to a windows build of opus 1.1 surround/beta 2? Can't find it, and don't know how to compile :/
Also have uploaded another version of a silence. There was an error in export settings. But both files show the same behavior of an encoders. http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....st&p=848312 (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=101993&view=findpost&p=848312)
Is there a development blogs somewhere where i can read about the development of the code? Life has stopped here lately.
you could check the mailing list or IRC.
http://www.opus-codec.org/contact/ (http://www.opus-codec.org/contact/)
To add to what marc said, you can always read git commit logs (http://git.xiph.org/?p=opus.git;a=summary), or the source diffs
Sure, having information that's more accessible to people who are neither experts in the field nor well acquainted with the codebase would be nifty, but stuff like Monty's updates (http://xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/opus/demo3.shtml) take a ton of time and effort to put together, and if every new idea had to be accompanied by that level of explanation and demonstration for broader audiences, the pace would be glacial.
Reading diagonally over the commit messages, there seem to be mostly surround and software related changes lately, except for some stereo tuning for "IgorC's twilight sample".
Did that affect also other signals much, and are there more mono- or stereo-related quality tunings during the last few months which I missed?
Chris
Opus-1.1rc generic opimized build for testing, please don't forget to post results and differences from beta
Please redownload and try either build without AVX or non optimized, either should run for you now.
Case, when you have time can you please create the binaries? I only use yours. Thanks.
LithosZA you're right, my mistake. This already should run everywhere as it should. Sorry guys for the inconvenience.
[removed]
Anakunda, why do I need to use all these DLLs? When for example Case compiles I only need opusenc.exe.
Thanks.
I would rather wait for an official binaries. The posted binaries (unofficial Anakunda's ) are reported to have some anomalities.
LithosZA, are you still having that problem (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=103602&pid=851244&st=0&#entry851244)? If so, Anakunda can you give more info on your build. I can't reproduce the problem, so it probably has to do with the platform or the compiler. Can you try disabling SSE maybe?
I am at work now and tested both Anakunda's and Ajaja's builds. Both seem to work except Anakunda couldn't accept FLAC input.
I will test again when I get home on the laptop that gave problems.
It still will be useful to know what compiler options + the exact compiler that was used that caused the issue. Just to determine if something can be changed in the code to be more friendly with that compiler.
Ok, I have tested the new builds from Anakunda, Ajaja and Case and they all seem to work correctly.
EDIT: Ajaja and Case's builds support FLAC input. Had to use WAV input for Anakunda's build.
Thank you Case. Testing ASAP.
hold your horses .... rc2 just released
Are there any tests on how Opus competes against other codecs in overall with newer releases?
I doubt as it will probably wait till 1.1 is completed, but it seems to be fairly more active now which makes things interesting:)
I wonder if this release fixes the IS stereo to mono downmix problem where channels cancels each other? Or this is entirely depends on the decoder being used?
I tested those builds by Case, Ajaja and Anakunda with command line posted by jmvalin here (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=101764&view=findpost&p=851357), and they all produce different results (and they are different from "working range").
I also tested with my build and it produces same results as "working range". I've attached my build in case someone want to try it out.
[attachment=7712:Opus-1.1-rc2.7z]
Thanks Anakunda, could you also create a build with just opusenc.exe or explain to me please why your way is better?
Oh yes, I can, but dont be worried it's up to pair to single file, so it's no better nor worse. I'm just tried to convert same song using the same encoder on two PCs with two different processors and the result is not same which proves that for different CPUs different level of optimizations is used which affects the resulting audio data in some way. I can't say if these changes affect the quality also or even produce hearable artifacts.
Thanks jmvalin. is there a measure which justifies which changes in saved range are yet acceptable and which not? It seems that speed optimizations really affect these and now I'm not too sure which degree of optimizations is yet affordable and which not, so that I could make build fully conforming to opus standard.
For the record, my GCC compile, which doesn't match jmvalin's range file, was compiled with no manual adjustments. I just ran configure and make in mingw environment.
My build was compilied with "-O3 -flto". And it does match jmvalin's range file on Core 2 Duo (WinXP x86) where I built it, but doesn't match on Core i5 (Win7 x64).
Opus v1.1rc3 build for x64 Core i3/i5/i7 (GCC 4.8.2 with "-O3 -flto -march=native -mtune=native") in attachment.
Just to mention Opus 1.1 RC3 is officially confirmed to be final version
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....howtopic=103718 (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=103718)
Binaries Opus 1.1 final https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/opu...0.1.8-win32.zip (https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/opus/win32/opus-tools-0.1.8-win32.zip)
0.1.8 refers to the package (opustools), while 1.1 refers to the opus version included.
x86 and x64 has nothing to do with being unicode, btw.