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Topic: It's time for my first DAC and quality amp. Can anyone help? (Read 8390 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: It's time for my first DAC and quality amp. Can anyone help?

Reply #25 –
Quote from: 4season on
Do you have the receiver properly configured to run those speakers full-range? By default, it probably assumes that a subwoofer is also connected, so you may not be hearing bass frequencies below ~120 Hz or so.

Also, does that cinema receiver allow you to auto-equalize with only two speakers connected? If so, I'd try that before spending more money. The fact that you get some relief by fiddling with the equalization in iTunes strongly suggests to me that frequency response of those speakers in your room is not very flat.

Whoa!  Great questions!  I have no idea.  In fact, another complaint I have is that my speakers sound high and tinny, rather harsh, so if what you're saying about the amp assuming there is a sub attached, that could make a HUGE difference.  This is a 5.1 amp that's intended to be adjusted with a TV set attached (which it doesn't have) so it's going to be a project getting out the manual and wading through the embedded menus on the little front-face display.  But I'm on it!  Thanks for the advice.

Re: It's time for my first DAC and quality amp. Can anyone help?

Reply #26 –
It is quite possible that some of the settings can only be seen and changed with a TV attached. Don't expect that you can do everything on the front panel. That's part of the trouble with AV receivers, unfortunately. For some people that's a reason for not using them, even when there's no sonic disadvantage.

Re: It's time for my first DAC and quality amp. Can anyone help?

Reply #27 –
Quote from: John 31415926 on
Would that result in clips or distortion triggered by an audio event like a sudden burst in singing or what-not?  You are referring to hum (or I assume any "constant" audio defect).  Would my symptom be resolved by balanced connections?  It seems like "unbalanced" problems are more pervasive and constant, aren't they?
No, the issue of balanced versus unbalanced is far more subtle, to do with noise at very low levels. Don't look at this as a possible cure for your clipping and distortion problems.

Re: It's time for my first DAC and quality amp. Can anyone help?

Reply #28 –
Quote from: John 31415926 on
On a side note, I don't know much about audio, but I do a hear a BIG difference in different amps, so I'll be shopping quality amps soon, but for now I'm wondering if the DAC on my Mac might be what's causing the clipping.
8. All members that put forth a statement concerning subjective sound quality, must -- to the best of their ability -- provide objective support for their claims.  Acceptable means of support are double blind listening tests (ABX or ABC/HR) demonstrating that the member can discern a difference perceptually, together with a test sample to allow others to reproduce their findings.  Graphs, non-blind listening tests, waveform difference comparisons, and so on, are not acceptable means of providing support.

I still sense a strong undercurrent of placebo effect and upgrade-itis.

Re: It's time for my first DAC and quality amp. Can anyone help?

Reply #29 –
Quote from: greynol on
I still sense a strong undercurrent of placebo effect and upgrade-itis.

Greynol, these people are giving me very helpful and valuable advice and direction.  Would you please step aside and let the conversation remain profitable?  These guys helped me determine that the clipping is only within iTunes and not other players.  They also educated me (after that post that you quoted) that the DAC on my Mac is bypassed when I use toslink.  They are helping me understand what, if anything, balanced connections accomplish and the latest suggestion to consider whether or not my amp is configured for my particular speakers is a serious consideration.

Your replies are not helpful in any way.  Please post on other threads as I'm getting much more value from the other guys that are posting here.

Re: It's time for my first DAC and quality amp. Can anyone help?

Reply #30 –
Quote from: John 31415926 on
Quote from: greynol on
I still sense a strong undercurrent of placebo effect and upgrade-itis.

Greynol, these people are giving me very helpful and valuable advice and direction.  Would you please step aside and let the conversation remain profitable?  These guys helped me determine that the clipping is only within iTunes and not other players.  They also educated me (after that post that you quoted) that the DAC on my Mac is bypassed when I use toslink.  They are helping me understand what, if anything, balanced connections accomplish and the latest suggestion to consider whether or not my amp is configured for my particular speakers is a serious consideration.

Your replies are not helpful in any way.  Please post on other threads as I'm getting much more value from the other guys that are posting here.
On the contrary. You made a statement that was off-topic and violated the terms of service. It was very much the job of a moderator to point this out to you.

Re: It's time for my first DAC and quality amp. Can anyone help?

Reply #31 –
Indeed.  The post I quoted is in violation of the terms John 31415926 agreed to follow when registering.

As such I can and will interject as I see fit.

Re: It's time for my first DAC and quality amp. Can anyone help?

Reply #32 –
greynol only hinted to our TOS. You should consider posting on a completely other forum before you ask a mod to shut up.
Is troll-adiposity coming from feederism?
With 24bit music you can listen to silence much louder!

Re: It's time for my first DAC and quality amp. Can anyone help?

Reply #34 –
As a final post to an otherwise FANTASTIC and VERY HELPFUL thread, let me say that Greynol began his contribution to this thread with snarky sarcasm and not "moderation". 

Quote from: greynol on
Yes, by all means buy bass traps too.  Let's feed the paranoia!

And with regards to this,
Quote from: pdq on
You made a statement that was off-topic and violated the terms of service.

The offending statement was that I can hear a big difference in different in different amps and that I'm considering looking at different amps as a possible cure for my problem ... but was first asking whether the other posters believed whether the DAC on my Mac was what was causing audible clipping.

THAT, in greynol's mind, was "nonsense".

Quote from: greynol on
Yes, and there are plenty that not only allow such nonsense, they encourage it.

That was an attempt to isolate WHERE THE PROBLEM LAY.  Whether the DAC, the connection, my cheap amp, cable quality, etc.

Quote from: Joe Bloggs on
You might want to try another audio player program.  What's an audio player for Mac that shows a peak / clipping meter of the channels in real time?

A genuinely HELPFUL poster helped me isolate that the clipping problem was within the playback software, although I still don't know where within iTunes specifically.  Unfortunately, this thread won't help me finish the diagnosis as I won't continue posting in this thread any longer.  It's kind of a drag to be ignorant about the cause of a problem and then to endure sarcasm and superiority from the moderator because I'm asking the question "wrong".

I don't think anything I said violates the spirit of the TOS, as though I was making statements about the audible superiority of FLAC over ALAC, or some other superstition that demands objective verification as the hydrogen TOS dictate.

greynol, you took an otherwise helpful conversation and poisoned the waters.

I will happily take Wombat's suggestion and post elsewhere.  I'll post further questions on the Apple iTunes forum.

The rest of you guys that posted ... THANK YOU for taking the time to help me and save me from making a costly decision that would not have solved my problem.  I know now that the next step is to find the specs within iTunes that are causing my clipping - or moving to another software, such as Vox - which doesn't have the interface I care to see every day, but which eliminated the clipping entirely.

Thanks to you, I do have a temporary fix for my problem and spent zero dollars in the process.



Re: It's time for my first DAC and quality amp. Can anyone help?

Reply #35 –
Quote from: John 31415926 on
As a final post to an otherwise FANTASTIC and VERY HELPFUL thread, let me say that Greynol began his contribution to this thread with snarky sarcasm and not "moderation".
You started a topic soliciting help for a problem that you did not identify and proceeded to blather on about needing a new DAC and amp because your Onkyo is inadequate, seemingly due to the price point.

Quote from: John 31415926 on
Quote from: greynol on
Yes, by all means buy bass traps too.  Let's feed the paranoia!
Yes, some members like to go out on a limb and make recommendations without getting any facts.  It's becoming far too common.

Quote from: John 31415926 on
Quote from: pdq on
You made a statement that was off-topic and violated the terms of service.
I was focusing on rule #8, though as pdq correctly noted you did also violate rule #5.

Quote from: John 31415926 on
The offending statement was that I can hear a big difference in different in different amps and that I'm considering looking at different amps as a possible cure for my problem ... but was first asking whether the other posters believed whether the DAC on my Mac was what was causing audible clipping.

THAT, in greynol's mind, was "nonsense".
Yes, until you support it, it should be dismissed as NONSENSE.

Quote from: John 31415926 on
THANK YOU for taking the time to help me and save me from making a costly decision that would not have solved my problem.
Good, I'm glad to see you did come to your senses.

Re: It's time for my first DAC and quality amp. Can anyone help?

Reply #36 –
Quote from: John 31415926 on
I don't know much about audio, but I do a hear a BIG difference in different amps, so I'll be shopping quality amps soon

Quote from: greynol on
Quote from: John 31415926 on
THANK YOU for taking the time to help me and save me from making a costly decision that would not have solved my problem.
Good, I'm glad to see you did come to your senses.
Well maybe not for another 6 months.

Hey John, what happened to your Onkyo?
 

Re: It's time for my first DAC and quality amp. Can anyone help?

Reply #37 –
Quote from: John 31415926 on
It seems I have 2/4 of a decent audio setup.  I have a newer iMac (playing FLACs) and I have a pair of Martin Logan Motion40's.

The weak link is that I'm running out of the Mac, via toslink, into a $400 Onkyo 5.1 receiver.  There doesn't seem to be anything I can do to make the audio sound really good with that amp.

False.  The weakest links in any home audio system are, and in this order:

(1) The recordings you play. Nothing you can do much about but change your tastes in music. But, its true.

(2) The acoustics of your listening room.

(3) The choice, configuration, and positioning of your speakers.

Electronics, especially power amps, are way down the list.