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Topic: Peculiar ripping result... (Read 16203 times) previous topic - next topic
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Peculiar ripping result...

Hi,

Those not interested in the gory details of the ripping process should look elsewhere ;-)

While ripping my stack of CDs, I've found a few peculiar ripping results. Maybe it's bad luck, or maybe I'm just paying more attention. The first CD was a SimpleMind CD, and I described that in other forums :
http://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthread.php?t=16417
http://www.digital-inn.de/exact-audio-copy...rip-result.html

Now that I am half way through my taxes, I can talk about the other CD that is interesting, and it's interesting for other reasons. It's a long story, so I'll break it down in section.

Setup at home : Dual P4, Samsung SH-S162L, Lite-On LH-20A1P, Plextor PX230A
Setup at work : Single P4, HP DVD 400c (BenQ DW800), HP cd16 (LG GCE-8160B)
Both EAC and dBpoweramp reference are properly configured.

The first rip was with the Samsung SH-S162L in secure mode.

Code: [Select]
Exact Audio Copy V0.99 prebeta 4 from 23. January 2008

EAC extraction logfile from 6. February 2008, 22:31

Fabrizio de André / Fabrizio de André

Used drive  : TSSTcorpCD/DVDW SH-S162L   Adapter: 3  ID: 1

Read mode			   : Secure
Utilize accurate stream : Yes
Defeat audio cache	  : No
Make use of C2 pointers : Yes

Read offset correction					  : 6
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out		  : No
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks   : No
Null samples used in CRC calculations	   : No
Used interface							  : Native Win32 interface for Win NT & 2000
Gap handling								: Not detected, thus appended to previous track

Used output format			  : User Defined Encoder
Selected bitrate				: 768 kBit/s
Quality						 : High
Add ID3 tag					 : No
Command line compressor		 : C:\Program Files\Exact Audio Copy\FLAC\FLAC.EXE
Additional command line options : -8 -V -T "ARTIST=%a" -T "TITLE=%t" -T "ALBUM=%g" -T "DATE=%y" -T "TRACKNUMBER=%n" -T "GENRE=%m" -T "COMMENT=%e" %s -o %d


TOC of the extracted CD

	 Track |   Start  |  Length  | Start sector | End sector 
	---------------------------------------------------------
		1  |  0:00.32 |  3:18.13 |		32	|	14894   
		2  |  3:18.45 |  5:55.67 |	 14895	|	41586   
		3  |  9:14.37 |  3:32.05 |	 41587	|	57491   
		4  | 12:46.42 |  5:22.00 |	 57492	|	81641   
		5  | 18:08.42 |  3:08.53 |	 81642	|	95794   
		6  | 21:17.20 |  4:07.20 |	 95795	|   114339   
		7  | 25:24.40 |  6:07.67 |	114340	|   141931   
		8  | 31:32.32 |  4:44.05 |	141932	|   163236   
		9  | 36:16.37 |  5:53.35 |	163237	|   189746   
	   10  | 42:09.72 |  2:43.25 |	189747	|   201996   
	   11  | 44:53.22 |  5:45.45 |	201997	|   227916   
	   12  | 50:38.67 |  9:23.38 |	227917	|   270179   


Track  1

	 Filename F:\Music-FLAC\Fabrizio de André\1986-Fabrizio de André\01. La canzone di Marinella.wav

	 Peak level 45.3 %
	 Track quality 100.0 %
	 Copy CRC 2E87AA9B
	 Track not present in AccurateRip database
	 Copy OK

Track  2

	 Filename F:\Music-FLAC\Fabrizio de André\1986-Fabrizio de André\02. Andrea.wav

	 Peak level 52.1 %
	 Track quality 100.0 %
	 Copy CRC 17870E20
	 Track not present in AccurateRip database
	 Copy OK

Track  3

	 Filename F:\Music-FLAC\Fabrizio de André\1986-Fabrizio de André\03. La guerra di Piero.wav

	 Peak level 50.5 %
	 Track quality 100.0 %
	 Copy CRC 403C4AC7
	 Track not present in AccurateRip database
	 Copy OK

Track  4

	 Filename F:\Music-FLAC\Fabrizio de André\1986-Fabrizio de André\04. Carlo Martello ritorna dalla battaglia di Poitiers.wav

	 Peak level 43.1 %
	 Track quality 100.0 %
	 Copy CRC 97A61BDD
	 Track not present in AccurateRip database
	 Copy OK

Track  5

	 Filename F:\Music-FLAC\Fabrizio de André\1986-Fabrizio de André\05. Bocca di rosa.wav

	 Peak level 31.8 %
	 Track quality 100.0 %
	 Copy CRC D038F3AF
	 Track not present in AccurateRip database
	 Copy OK

Track  6

	 Filename F:\Music-FLAC\Fabrizio de André\1986-Fabrizio de André\06. Il pescatore.wav

	 Peak level 65.6 %
	 Track quality 100.0 %
	 Copy CRC 77310D70
	 Track not present in AccurateRip database
	 Copy OK

Track  7

	 Filename F:\Music-FLAC\Fabrizio de André\1986-Fabrizio de André\07. Creusa de mä.wav

	 Peak level 54.8 %
	 Track quality 100.0 %
	 Copy CRC B364FB92
	 Track not present in AccurateRip database
	 Copy OK

Track  8

	 Filename F:\Music-FLAC\Fabrizio de André\1986-Fabrizio de André\08. Fiume Sand Creek.wav

	 Peak level 38.5 %
	 Track quality 100.0 %
	 Copy CRC C5751F5D
	 Track not present in AccurateRip database
	 Copy OK

Track  9

	 Filename F:\Music-FLAC\Fabrizio de André\1986-Fabrizio de André\09. Il testamento di Tito.wav

	 Peak level 40.6 %
	 Track quality 99.9 %
	 Copy CRC 4DC1FB0C
	 Track not present in AccurateRip database
	 Copy OK

Track 10

	 Filename F:\Music-FLAC\Fabrizio de André\1986-Fabrizio de André\10. Via del Campo.wav

	 Peak level 43.7 %
	 Track quality 100.0 %
	 Copy CRC 44F63891
	 Track not present in AccurateRip database
	 Copy OK

Track 11

	 Filename F:\Music-FLAC\Fabrizio de André\1986-Fabrizio de André\11. Quello che non ho.wav

	 Peak level 49.7 %
	 Track quality 100.0 %
	 Copy CRC A9CA08DD
	 Track not present in AccurateRip database
	 Copy OK

Track 12

	 Filename F:\Music-FLAC\Fabrizio de André\1986-Fabrizio de André\12. Amico fragile.wav

	 Peak level 67.5 %
	 Track quality 99.9 %
	 Copy CRC E23652AE
	 Track not present in AccurateRip database
	 Copy OK


None of the tracks are present in the AccurateRip database

No errors occurred

End of status report

Everything seems fine, all track are 100% except the last one. As per my workflow, I compare using the PX230A in burst mode :

Code: [Select]
Exact Audio Copy V0.99 prebeta 4 from 23. January 2008

EAC extraction logfile from 6. February 2008, 22:41

Fabrizio de André / Fabrizio de André

Used drive  : PLEXTOR CD-R   PX-230A   Adapter: 2  ID: 0

Read mode : Burst

Read offset correction					  : 738
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out		  : No
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks   : No
Null samples used in CRC calculations	   : No
Used interface							  : Native Win32 interface for Win NT & 2000
Gap handling								: Not detected, thus appended to previous track

Performing a test extraction only


TOC of the extracted CD

	 Track |   Start  |  Length  | Start sector | End sector 
	---------------------------------------------------------
		1  |  0:00.32 |  3:18.13 |		32	|	14894   
		2  |  3:18.45 |  5:55.67 |	 14895	|	41586   
		3  |  9:14.37 |  3:32.05 |	 41587	|	57491   
		4  | 12:46.42 |  5:22.00 |	 57492	|	81641   
		5  | 18:08.42 |  3:08.53 |	 81642	|	95794   
		6  | 21:17.20 |  4:07.20 |	 95795	|   114339   
		7  | 25:24.40 |  6:07.67 |	114340	|   141931   
		8  | 31:32.32 |  4:44.05 |	141932	|   163236   
		9  | 36:16.37 |  5:53.35 |	163237	|   189746   
	   10  | 42:09.72 |  2:43.25 |	189747	|   201996   
	   11  | 44:53.22 |  5:45.45 |	201997	|   227916   
	   12  | 50:38.67 |  9:23.38 |	227917	|   270179   


Track  1

	 Filename F:\Music-FLAC\Fabrizio de André\1986-Fabrizio de André\01. La canzone di Marinella.wav

	 Timing problem 0:00:19
	 Timing problem 0:00:37

	 Peak level 45.3 %
	 Test CRC 2E87AA9B
	 Track not present in AccurateRip database
	 Copy finished

Track  2

	 Filename F:\Music-FLAC\Fabrizio de André\1986-Fabrizio de André\02. Andrea.wav

	 Timing problem 0:01:18
	 Timing problem 0:02:52
	 Timing problem 0:03:53
	 Timing problem 0:04:32
	 Timing problem 0:04:49
	 Timing problem 0:05:08

	 Peak level 52.1 %
	 Test CRC 26695682
	 Track not present in AccurateRip database
	 Copy finished

Track  3

	 Filename F:\Music-FLAC\Fabrizio de André\1986-Fabrizio de André\03. La guerra di Piero.wav

	 Peak level 50.5 %
	 Test CRC 403C4AC7
	 Track not present in AccurateRip database
	 Copy OK

Track  4

	 Filename F:\Music-FLAC\Fabrizio de André\1986-Fabrizio de André\04. Carlo Martello ritorna dalla battaglia di Poitiers.wav

	 Peak level 43.1 %
	 Test CRC 97A61BDD
	 Track not present in AccurateRip database
	 Copy OK

Track  5

	 Filename F:\Music-FLAC\Fabrizio de André\1986-Fabrizio de André\05. Bocca di rosa.wav

	 Peak level 31.8 %
	 Test CRC D038F3AF
	 Track not present in AccurateRip database
	 Copy OK

Track  6

	 Filename F:\Music-FLAC\Fabrizio de André\1986-Fabrizio de André\06. Il pescatore.wav

	 Peak level 65.6 %
	 Test CRC 77310D70
	 Track not present in AccurateRip database
	 Copy OK

Track  7

	 Filename F:\Music-FLAC\Fabrizio de André\1986-Fabrizio de André\07. Creusa de mä.wav

	 Peak level 54.8 %
	 Test CRC B364FB92
	 Track not present in AccurateRip database
	 Copy OK

Track  8

	 Filename F:\Music-FLAC\Fabrizio de André\1986-Fabrizio de André\08. Fiume Sand Creek.wav

	 Peak level 38.5 %
	 Test CRC C5751F5D
	 Track not present in AccurateRip database
	 Copy OK

Track  9

	 Filename F:\Music-FLAC\Fabrizio de André\1986-Fabrizio de André\09. Il testamento di Tito.wav

	 Peak level 40.6 %
	 Test CRC 4DC1FB0C
	 Track not present in AccurateRip database
	 Copy OK

Track 10

	 Filename F:\Music-FLAC\Fabrizio de André\1986-Fabrizio de André\10. Via del Campo.wav

	 Peak level 43.7 %
	 Test CRC 44F63891
	 Track not present in AccurateRip database
	 Copy OK

Track 11

	 Filename F:\Music-FLAC\Fabrizio de André\1986-Fabrizio de André\11. Quello che non ho.wav

	 Peak level 49.7 %
	 Test CRC A9CA08DD
	 Track not present in AccurateRip database
	 Copy OK

Track 12

	 Filename F:\Music-FLAC\Fabrizio de André\1986-Fabrizio de André\12. Amico fragile.wav

	 Peak level 67.5 %
	 Test CRC 09802973
	 Track not present in AccurateRip database
	 Copy OK


None of the tracks are present in the AccurateRip database

No errors occurred

End of status report

Ok, we have two difference. The second track and the last track.

After a bit of analysis, the difference on the last track is due to the offset difference and falls in the silence after the last track. That's pretty common and nothing to worry about.

The difference in the second track is not usual, so I decided to dig a bit further...

(more on this in the next message).

Jean

[!--sizeo:1--][span style=\"font-size:8pt;line-height:100%\"][!--/sizeo--]Moderation: Code changed to codebox.[/size]

Peculiar ripping result...

Reply #1 –
Hi again,

I did many more ripping with EAC on my drives. I have all the logs, but I won't bore you with that, unless you request it.

Those are the results for track 2 :

Code: [Select]
SH-S162L secure mode (+c2; -cache); 3 rips total :
	 Copy CRC 17870E20
	 Copy CRC 17870E20
	 Copy CRC 17870E20
LH-20A1P secure mode (+c2; +cache); 1 rip total :
	 Copy CRC 3ED614F4
PX-230A burst mode; 2 rip total
	 Test CRC 26695682
	 Copy CRC 26695682
PX-230A secure mode (+c2; +cache); 2 rips total
	 Copy CRC 26695682
	 Copy CRC 26695682
SH-S162L burst mode; 1 rip total
	 Copy CRC BC1A150E
LH-20A1P burst mode; 1 rip total
	 Copy CRC BC1A150E

The results are quite consistent on each drive, but quite inconsistent between drives. Also, burst and secure don't agree with each other. Remember that the SH-162L and the LH-20A1P are both based on a MediaTek chipset, even though they are probably note the exact same chipset.

Now, let's compare the actual tracks with EAC Compare WAV function. Rather than doing screenshot, I've summarized the diffs.

Code: [Select]
EAC S162L vs. EAC 20A1P 
<30 repeated 0:02:54.026
>30 repeated 0:03:00.719

EAC S162L vs. EAC PX230A
different 0:02:52.249 - 0:02:52.339
>30 repeated 0:02:52.262
<30 repeated 0:02:54.026

EAC PX230A vs. EAC PX230A-burst
(null)

EAC S162L vs. EAC S162L-burst
<30 repeated 0:02:54.026

EAC 20A1P vs. EAC 20A1P-burst
<30 repeated 0:03:00.719

EAC S162L-burst vs. EAC 20A1P-burst
(null)

EAC S162L-burst vs. EAC PX230A-burst
different 0:02:52.249 - 0:02:52.339
>30 repeated 0:02:52.262

The conclusion is that the SH-S162L and LH-20A1P differ usually by only 30 samples, whereas they differ from the PX-230A on a 100ms section at 0:02:52.

Note that the 30 sample difference is something I've already seen on some other CDs.

(More to follow).

Jean

[!--sizeo:1--][span style=\"font-size:8pt;line-height:100%\"][!--/sizeo--]Moderation: Code changed to codebox.[/size]

Peculiar ripping result...

Reply #2 –
Hi again,

Now the obvious question is, what about dBpoweramp. dBpoweramp has only a single setting, ultra secure. Note that CRC are calculated differently from EAC and therefore can't be compared.

This is a rip on the SH-S162L.

Code: [Select]
dBpoweramp Release 12.4 Digital Audio Extraction Log from Saturday, February 16, 2008 12:29 PM

Drive & Settings
----------------

Ripping with drive 'E:   [TSSTcorp - CD/DVDW SH-S162L]',  Drive offset: 6,  Overread Lead-in/out: No
AccurateRip: Active,  Using C2: Yes,  Cache: None,  FUA Cache Invalidate: No
Pass 1 Drive Speed: Max,  Pass 2 Drive Speed: Max
Ultra::  Vary Drive Speed: No,  Min Passes: 3,  Max Passes: 6,  Finish After Clean Passes: 2
Bad Sector Re-rip::  Drive Speed: Max,  Maximum Re-reads: 34

Encoder: FLAC -compression-level-8 -verify

Extraction Log
--------------

Track 1:  Ripped LBA 32 to 14895 (3:18) in 2:04. Filename: F:\Music-dBamp\Fabrizio de André\Fabrizio de André - Fabrizio de André - 01 - La Canzone Di Marinella.flac
  Secure  [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 3]
  CRC32: CF6D732B

Track 2:  Ripped LBA 14895 to 41587 (5:55) in 3:17. Filename: F:\Music-dBamp\Fabrizio de André\Fabrizio de André - Fabrizio de André - 02 - Andrea.flac
  Secure  [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 3]
  CRC32: DDCEB08E

Track 3:  Ripped LBA 41587 to 57492 (3:32) in 1:46. Filename: F:\Music-dBamp\Fabrizio de André\Fabrizio de André - Fabrizio de André - 03 - La Guerra Di Piero.flac
  Secure  [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 3]
  CRC32: A235BCDD

Track 4:  Ripped LBA 57492 to 81642 (5:22) in 2:28. Filename: F:\Music-dBamp\Fabrizio de André\Fabrizio de André - Fabrizio de André - 04 - Carlo Martello Ritorna Dalla Battaglia Di Poitiers.flac
  Secure  [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 3]
  CRC32: 24AC6921

Track 5:  Ripped LBA 81642 to 95795 (3:08) in 1:21. Filename: F:\Music-dBamp\Fabrizio de André\Fabrizio de André - Fabrizio de André - 05 - Bocca Di Rosa.flac
  Secure  [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 3]
  CRC32: 8F788810

Track 6:  Ripped LBA 95795 to 114340 (4:07) in 1:41. Filename: F:\Music-dBamp\Fabrizio de André\Fabrizio de André - Fabrizio de André - 06 - Il Pescatore.flac
  Secure  [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 3]
  CRC32: C65DCC1F

Track 7:  Ripped LBA 114340 to 141932 (6:07) in 2:22. Filename: F:\Music-dBamp\Fabrizio de André\Fabrizio de André - Fabrizio de André - 07 - Creuza de Mä.flac
  Secure  [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 3]
  CRC32: 45449CF4

Track 8:  Ripped LBA 141932 to 163237 (4:44) in 1:43. Filename: F:\Music-dBamp\Fabrizio de André\Fabrizio de André - Fabrizio de André - 08 - Fiume Sand Creek.flac
  Secure  [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 3]
  CRC32: 1802D400

Track 9:  Ripped LBA 163237 to 189747 (5:53) in 2:02. Filename: F:\Music-dBamp\Fabrizio de André\Fabrizio de André - Fabrizio de André - 09 - Il Testamento Di Tito.flac
  Secure  [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 3]
  CRC32: 3D392719

Track 10:  Ripped LBA 189747 to 201997 (2:43) in 0:54. Filename: F:\Music-dBamp\Fabrizio de André\Fabrizio de André - Fabrizio de André - 10 - Via del Campo.flac
  Secure  [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 3]
  CRC32: 0A5C8CE5

Track 11:  Ripped LBA 201997 to 227917 (5:45) in 1:51. Filename: F:\Music-dBamp\Fabrizio de André\Fabrizio de André - Fabrizio de André - 11 - Quello Che Non Ho.flac
  Secure  [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 3]
  CRC32: 8A452BA4

Track 12:  Ripped LBA 227917 to 270180 (9:23) in 2:51. Filename: F:\Music-dBamp\Fabrizio de André\Fabrizio de André - Fabrizio de André - 12 - Amico Fragile.flac
  Secure  [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 3]
  CRC32: 42F98CE8

--------------

12 Tracks Ripped Securely

Now, this is all the rips with dBpoweramp.

Code: [Select]
SH-S162L; 2 rips total :
  CRC32: DDCEB08E
  CRC32: DDCEB08E
LH-20A1P; 1 rip total
  CRC32: DDCEB08E
  (Note : dBpoweramp re-riped 94 frames on track 3. Track 2 did not had any re-rip. Mystery)
PX-230A; 2 rips total :
  CRC32: 1378EA04
  CRC32: 1378EA04

So, this time, nobody will claim that it's only a bug in EAC ;-)

Let's compare the tracks :

Code: [Select]
dBamp S162L vs. dBamp 20A1P
(null)

dBamp S162L vs. dBamp PX230A
<738 missing 0:00:00.000
different 0:02:52.249 - 0:02:52.339 <> 0:02:52.265 - 0:02:52.355
>30 repeated 0:02:52.279

EAC PX230A vs. dBamp PX230A
<738 missing 0:00:00.000

EAC S162L-burst vs. dBamp S162L
(null)

So, dBpoweramp on the SH-S162L and LH-20A1P give the same result as EAC in burst mode, which is expected. dBpoweramp on the PX-230A seems to have a serious synchronisation problem.

(more to come)

Jean

[!--sizeo:1--][span style=\"font-size:8pt;line-height:100%\"][!--/sizeo--]Moderation: Code changed to codebox.[/size]

Peculiar ripping result...

Reply #3 –
Hi again,

I brough the CD at work. I've got two drive that I don't consider good for ripping. The HP DVD 400c is a clone of the BenQ DW800, and old 8x DVD+R only writer. The HP cd16b is clone of the LG GCE-8160B and a very old 16x CD writer, it uses a MediaTek chipset (+12 offset instead of +6).

EAC on the DVD 400c and dBpoweramp on the cd16 each took half a day ripping. That was painful to watch.

This is EAC on the 400c.

Code: [Select]
Exact Audio Copy V0.99 prebeta 3 from 28. July 2007

EAC extraction logfile from 6. March 2008, 9:57

Fabrizio de André / Fabrizio de André

Used drive  : HP	  DVD Writer 400c   Adapter: 1  ID: 0

Read mode			   : Secure
Utilize accurate stream : Yes
Defeat audio cache	  : Yes
Make use of C2 pointers : No

Read offset correction					  : 1292
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out		  : No
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks   : No
Null samples used in CRC calculations	   : No
Used interface							  : Native Win32 interface for Win NT & 2000
Gap handling								: Not detected, thus appended to previous track

Used output format			  : User Defined Encoder
Selected bitrate				: 768 kBit/s
Quality						 : High
Add ID3 tag					 : No
Command line compressor		 : C:\Program Files\Exact Audio Copy\FLAC\FLAC.EXE
Additional command line options : -8 -V -T "ARTIST=%a" -T "TITLE=%t" -T "ALBUM=%g" -T "DATE=%y" -T "TRACKNUMBER=%n" -T "GENRE=%m" -T "COMMENT=%e" %s -o %d


TOC of the extracted CD

	 Track |   Start  |  Length  | Start sector | End sector 
	---------------------------------------------------------
		1  |  0:00.32 |  3:18.13 |		32	|	14894   
		2  |  3:18.45 |  5:55.67 |	 14895	|	41586   
		3  |  9:14.37 |  3:32.05 |	 41587	|	57491   
		4  | 12:46.42 |  5:22.00 |	 57492	|	81641   
		5  | 18:08.42 |  3:08.53 |	 81642	|	95794   
		6  | 21:17.20 |  4:07.20 |	 95795	|   114339   
		7  | 25:24.40 |  6:07.67 |	114340	|   141931   
		8  | 31:32.32 |  4:44.05 |	141932	|   163236   
		9  | 36:16.37 |  5:53.35 |	163237	|   189746   
	   10  | 42:09.72 |  2:43.25 |	189747	|   201996   
	   11  | 44:53.22 |  5:45.45 |	201997	|   227916   
	   12  | 50:38.67 |  9:23.38 |	227917	|   270179   


Track  1

	 Filename C:\Music-FLAC\Fabrizio de André\1986-Fabrizio de André\01. La canzone di Marinella.wav

	 Peak level 45.3 %
	 Track quality 100.0 %
	 Copy CRC 2E87AA9B
	 Track not present in AccurateRip database
	 Copy OK

Track  2

	 Filename C:\Music-FLAC\Fabrizio de André\1986-Fabrizio de André\02. Andrea.wav

	 Suspicious position 0:02:54

	 Peak level 52.1 %
	 Track quality 97.2 %
	 Copy CRC 57DBFB26
	 Track not present in AccurateRip database
	 Copy finished

Track  3

	 Filename C:\Music-FLAC\Fabrizio de André\1986-Fabrizio de André\03. La guerra di Piero.wav

	 Peak level 50.5 %
	 Track quality 100.0 %
	 Copy CRC 403C4AC7
	 Track not present in AccurateRip database
	 Copy OK

Track  4

	 Filename C:\Music-FLAC\Fabrizio de André\1986-Fabrizio de André\04. Carlo Martello.wav

	 Peak level 43.1 %
	 Track quality 100.0 %
	 Copy CRC 97A61BDD
	 Track not present in AccurateRip database
	 Copy OK

Track  5

	 Filename C:\Music-FLAC\Fabrizio de André\1986-Fabrizio de André\05. Bocca di rosa.wav

	 Peak level 31.8 %
	 Track quality 100.0 %
	 Copy CRC D038F3AF
	 Track not present in AccurateRip database
	 Copy OK

Track  6

	 Filename C:\Music-FLAC\Fabrizio de André\1986-Fabrizio de André\06. Il pescatore.wav

	 Peak level 65.6 %
	 Track quality 100.0 %
	 Copy CRC 77310D70
	 Track not present in AccurateRip database
	 Copy OK

Track  7

	 Filename C:\Music-FLAC\Fabrizio de André\1986-Fabrizio de André\07. Creusa de ma.wav

	 Peak level 54.8 %
	 Track quality 100.0 %
	 Copy CRC B364FB92
	 Track not present in AccurateRip database
	 Copy OK

Track  8

	 Filename C:\Music-FLAC\Fabrizio de André\1986-Fabrizio de André\08. Fiume Sand Creek.wav

	 Peak level 38.5 %
	 Track quality 100.0 %
	 Copy CRC C5751F5D
	 Track not present in AccurateRip database
	 Copy OK

Track  9

	 Filename C:\Music-FLAC\Fabrizio de André\1986-Fabrizio de André\09. Il testamento di Tito.wav

	 Peak level 40.6 %
	 Track quality 100.0 %
	 Copy CRC 4DC1FB0C
	 Track not present in AccurateRip database
	 Copy OK

Track 10

	 Filename C:\Music-FLAC\Fabrizio de André\1986-Fabrizio de André\10. Via del Campo.wav

	 Peak level 43.7 %
	 Track quality 100.0 %
	 Copy CRC 44F63891
	 Track not present in AccurateRip database
	 Copy OK

Track 11

	 Filename C:\Music-FLAC\Fabrizio de André\1986-Fabrizio de André\11. Quello che non ho.wav

	 Peak level 49.7 %
	 Track quality 100.0 %
	 Copy CRC A9CA08DD
	 Track not present in AccurateRip database
	 Copy OK

Track 12

	 Filename C:\Music-FLAC\Fabrizio de André\1986-Fabrizio de André\12. Amico fragile.wav

	 Peak level 67.5 %
	 Track quality 100.0 %
	 Copy CRC 5EF30293
	 Track not present in AccurateRip database
	 Copy OK


None of the tracks are present in the AccurateRip database

There were errors

End of status report

Clearly no good.

This is EAC on the cd16b :

Code: [Select]
Exact Audio Copy V0.99 prebeta 3 from 28. July 2007

EAC extraction logfile from 6. March 2008, 11:17

Fabrizio de André / Fabrizio de André

Used drive  : HP	  CD-Writer cd16b   Adapter: 1  ID: 1

Read mode			   : Secure
Utilize accurate stream : Yes
Defeat audio cache	  : No
Make use of C2 pointers : Yes

Read offset correction					  : 12
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out		  : No
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks   : No
Null samples used in CRC calculations	   : No
Used interface							  : Native Win32 interface for Win NT & 2000
Gap handling								: Not detected, thus appended to previous track

Used output format			  : User Defined Encoder
Selected bitrate				: 768 kBit/s
Quality						 : High
Add ID3 tag					 : No
Command line compressor		 : C:\Program Files\Exact Audio Copy\FLAC\FLAC.EXE
Additional command line options : -8 -V -T "ARTIST=%a" -T "TITLE=%t" -T "ALBUM=%g" -T "DATE=%y" -T "TRACKNUMBER=%n" -T "GENRE=%m" -T "COMMENT=%e" %s -o %d


TOC of the extracted CD

	 Track |   Start  |  Length  | Start sector | End sector 
	---------------------------------------------------------
		1  |  0:00.32 |  3:18.13 |		32	|	14894   
		2  |  3:18.45 |  5:55.67 |	 14895	|	41586   
		3  |  9:14.37 |  3:32.05 |	 41587	|	57491   
		4  | 12:46.42 |  5:22.00 |	 57492	|	81641   
		5  | 18:08.42 |  3:08.53 |	 81642	|	95794   
		6  | 21:17.20 |  4:07.20 |	 95795	|   114339   
		7  | 25:24.40 |  6:07.67 |	114340	|   141931   
		8  | 31:32.32 |  4:44.05 |	141932	|   163236   
		9  | 36:16.37 |  5:53.35 |	163237	|   189746   
	   10  | 42:09.72 |  2:43.25 |	189747	|   201996   
	   11  | 44:53.22 |  5:45.45 |	201997	|   227916   
	   12  | 50:38.67 |  9:23.38 |	227917	|   270179   


Track  1

	 Filename C:\Music-FLAC\Fabrizio de André\1986-Fabrizio de André\01. La canzone di Marinella.wav

	 Peak level 45.3 %
	 Track quality 100.0 %
	 Copy CRC 2E87AA9B
	 Track not present in AccurateRip database
	 Copy OK

Track  2

	 Filename C:\Music-FLAC\Fabrizio de André\1986-Fabrizio de André\02. Andrea.wav

	 Peak level 52.1 %
	 Track quality 100.0 %
	 Copy CRC BC1A150E
	 Track not present in AccurateRip database
	 Copy OK

Track  3

	 Filename C:\Music-FLAC\Fabrizio de André\1986-Fabrizio de André\03. La guerra di Piero.wav

	 Peak level 50.5 %
	 Track quality 100.0 %
	 Copy CRC 403C4AC7
	 Track not present in AccurateRip database
	 Copy OK

Track  4

	 Filename C:\Music-FLAC\Fabrizio de André\1986-Fabrizio de André\04. Carlo Martello.wav

	 Peak level 43.1 %
	 Track quality 100.0 %
	 Copy CRC 97A61BDD
	 Track not present in AccurateRip database
	 Copy OK

Track  5

	 Filename C:\Music-FLAC\Fabrizio de André\1986-Fabrizio de André\05. Bocca di rosa.wav

	 Peak level 31.8 %
	 Track quality 100.0 %
	 Copy CRC D038F3AF
	 Track not present in AccurateRip database
	 Copy OK

Track  6

	 Filename C:\Music-FLAC\Fabrizio de André\1986-Fabrizio de André\06. Il pescatore.wav

	 Peak level 65.6 %
	 Track quality 100.0 %
	 Copy CRC 77310D70
	 Track not present in AccurateRip database
	 Copy OK

Track  7

	 Filename C:\Music-FLAC\Fabrizio de André\1986-Fabrizio de André\07. Creusa de ma.wav

	 Peak level 54.8 %
	 Track quality 100.0 %
	 Copy CRC B364FB92
	 Track not present in AccurateRip database
	 Copy OK

Track  8

	 Filename C:\Music-FLAC\Fabrizio de André\1986-Fabrizio de André\08. Fiume Sand Creek.wav

	 Peak level 38.5 %
	 Track quality 100.0 %
	 Copy CRC C5751F5D
	 Track not present in AccurateRip database
	 Copy OK

Track  9

	 Filename C:\Music-FLAC\Fabrizio de André\1986-Fabrizio de André\09. Il testamento di Tito.wav

	 Peak level 40.6 %
	 Track quality 99.9 %
	 Copy CRC 4DC1FB0C
	 Track not present in AccurateRip database
	 Copy OK

Track 10

	 Filename C:\Music-FLAC\Fabrizio de André\1986-Fabrizio de André\10. Via del Campo.wav

	 Peak level 43.7 %
	 Track quality 100.0 %
	 Copy CRC 44F63891
	 Track not present in AccurateRip database
	 Copy OK

Track 11

	 Filename C:\Music-FLAC\Fabrizio de André\1986-Fabrizio de André\11. Quello che non ho.wav

	 Peak level 49.7 %
	 Track quality 100.0 %
	 Copy CRC A9CA08DD
	 Track not present in AccurateRip database
	 Copy OK

Track 12

	 Filename C:\Music-FLAC\Fabrizio de André\1986-Fabrizio de André\12. Amico fragile.wav

	 Peak level 67.5 %
	 Track quality 99.9 %
	 Copy CRC E23652AE
	 Track not present in AccurateRip database
	 Copy OK


None of the tracks are present in the AccurateRip database

No errors occurred

End of status report

This is the summary of EAC ripping :

Code: [Select]
DVD 400c secure (-c2; +cache); 1 rip total :
     Suspicious position 0:02:54
     Track quality 97.2 %
     Copy CRC 57DBFB26
DVD 400c burst; 1 rip total :
     Copy CRC 5E6BD1AA
cd16b secure (+c2; -cache); 2 rips total :
     Copy CRC BC1A150E
     Copy CRC BC1A150E
cd16b burst; 1 rip total :
     Copy CRC BC1A150E

This is the summary of dBpoweramp ripping :

Code: [Select]
DVD 400c; 1 rip total :
  CRC32: A6CFEE23
cd16b; 1 rip total :
  Secure (Warning)  [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 3, Re-Rip 3746 Frames]
  CRC32: 0169DC51

And now let's compare the tracks :

Code: [Select]
EAC 400c vs. EAC cd16
different 0:02:52.264 - 0:02:52.343
<1734 missing 0:02:52.267
<1684 repeated 0:02:54.330
>508 repeated 0:05:54.133

EAC 400c vs. dBamp 400c
<1684 repeated 0:02:54.330
>508 repeated 0:05:54.094

EAC cd16 vs. dBamp cd16
>30 repeated 0:03:02.466

dBamp 400c vs. dBamp cd16
different 0:02:52.264 - 0:02:52.343
<1734 missing 0:02:52.267
>30 repeated 0:03:02.466

EAC 400c vs. EAC 400c-burst
<1684 repeated 0:02:54.330
>508 repeated 0:05:54.094

EAC cd16 vs. EAC cd16-burst
(null)

EAC 400c-burst vs. dBamp 400c
(null)


This is where it's getting very interesting in my opinion. EAC with the cd16b is very consistent, whereas dBpoweramp with the same drive seems to miss 30 samples. The 400c is very bad, and EAC-secure at least tell us about it. The 400c in burst mode it seems to have a synchronisation problem, but at least EAC-burst and dBpoweramp give the same track.

(more to come)

Jean


Hi again,

I think this will be the last message for tonight. I need to sleep.

Now, the last thing we need to do it to compare the tracks from home and the tracks from work.

Code: [Select]
dBamp S162L vs. dBamp cd16
>30 repeated 0:03:02.466

dBamp PX230A vs. dBamp 400c
>738 missing 0:00:00.000
>1764 missing 0:02:52.265
different 0:02:52.265 - 0:02:52.359 <> 0:02:52.249 - 0:02:52.342

EAC PX230A vs. EAC 400c-burst
different 0:02:52.249 - 0:02:52.342
>1764 missing 0:02:52.265

EAC S162L-burst vs. EAC cd16
(null)

So, in summary, we have the extracted the same track on the following configurations :
EAC SH-S162L-burst
EAC LH-20A1P-burst
EAC cd16b-secure
EAC cd16b-burst
dBamp SH-S162L
dBamp LH-20A1P

The following configuration have only a consistent 30 sample difference from the above :
EAC SH-S162L-secure
EAC LH-20A1P-secure
dBamp cd16b

The PX-230A is consistent with itself in EAC but seems to have synchronisation issues in dBpoweramp.

The DVD 400c is not good.

I hope you guys found it interesting. If anything else cross my mind, I'll add it to the thread.

Have fun...

Jean

[!--sizeo:1--][span style=\"font-size:8pt;line-height:100%\"][!--/sizeo--]Moderation: Code changed to codebox.[/size]

Peculiar ripping result...

Reply #4 –
I am sure these CDs have a manufacturing defect, perhaps the timing codes in the subchannel, different drives would read these differently depending on the ripping method and drive. Something like accuraterip would not help as the database would fill with all the variations and would go unnoticed.

(btw to rip such a disc correctly the whole CD has to be ripped in one go or pass).

Peculiar ripping result...

Reply #5 –
Quote from: spoon on
I am sure these CDs have a manufacturing defect, perhaps the timing codes in the subchannel, different drives would read these differently depending on the ripping method and drive.


What is disappointing is that none of the drive/ripper gave any warning that there was something wrong, except the 400c which is the only one without C2. If there was a defect, I would have hoped that the drive would have reported that to the ripper somehow.

It means that to detect that kind of error/defect, you need to go beyond what ripping programs are giving you. Current ripping programs don't have enough diversity.

You reminded me that I did not comment on the state of that CD. It's pristine, except that I can see a tiny black spot embedded in the plastic of the CD, and it seems to correspond to where I would expect trrack 2 to be (i.e. pretty close to the center hub).

Quote from: spoon on
Something like accuraterip would not help as the database would fill with all the variations and would go unnoticed.


On the contrary, AccurateRip would give you a much lower confidence on track 2 or no confidence at all, which is a dead giveaway that something is wrong with that track.

Quote from: spoon on
(btw to rip such a disc correctly the whole CD has to be ripped in one go or pass).


Check the logs, it was the case.

Jean

Peculiar ripping result...

Reply #6 –
Quote from: Jean Tourrilhes on
Note that CRC are calculated differently from EAC and therefore can't be compared.

This is easily fixed:
F9->Extraction tab->No use of null samples for CRC calculations (uncheck)

I'll have to look more at this later.  All the data in a short amount of time is overwhelming when you have a hangover.

Peculiar ripping result...

Reply #7 –
Quote from: greynol on
I'll have to look more at this later.  All the data in a short amount of time is overwhelming when you have a hangover.


Offtopic: I'm currently working on having one of those tomorrow (badly scheduled with a dental appointment) *and* I'm coding for my robot stuff at the same time.  Who's idea was this anyway? 

-brendan

Peculiar ripping result...

Reply #8 –
Hi again,

I've been working a bit more on this famous CD, and I've got more results for you guys...

First, I was wondering how related my problem is to another strange ripping issue discussed on the EAC forum.

EAC forum - Strange behaviour (accurate stream related?)

The type of error is very similar. So, I decided to see the impact of C2 on the Samsung SH-S162L. The rip without C2 is new, the other are old rips for comparison.

Code: [Select]
SH-S162L secure mode (-c2; -cache); 1 rip total :
Copy CRC 87104475
SH-S162L secure mode (+c2; -cache); 3 rips total :
Copy CRC 17870E20
Copy CRC 17870E20
Copy CRC 17870E20
SH-S162L burst mode; 1 rip total
Copy CRC BC1A150E


Now, let's compare the WAV files...

Code: [Select]
EAC S162L-burst vs. EAC S162L-noc2
>30 repeated 0:05:54.145

EAC S162L-burst vs. EAC S162L
>30 repeated 0:02:54.026


So, the secure with and without C2 produce the same error but at a totally different place in the file.

More to come...

Jean

Peculiar ripping result...

Reply #9 –
Hi again,

Now, I've found more CD drive in the trash at work.

First, I've found another sample of the HP cd16b (clone of the LG GCE-8160B, Mediatek based, offset +12).
The second new drive is the Lite-On SOHC4832k, which is an old combo DVD + CD-RW and based on a Mediatek Chipset (offset +6).
The third new drive is the LG GDR8162B, which is an old combo DVD + CD-RW and based on a Panasonic chipset (offset +102).

Let's start the ripping ! I include the original cd16 results for comparison.

Code: [Select]
cd16b#2 secure (+c2; -cache); 1 rip total :
     Copy CRC BC1A150E
cd16b#1 secure (+c2; -cache); 2 rips total :
     Copy CRC BC1A150E
     Copy CRC BC1A150E
SOHC4832k secure (-c2; +cache); 1 rip total :
     Copy CRC 87104475
SOHC4832k burst mode; 1 rip total :
     Copy CRC BC1A150E
GDR8162B (+c2; +cache); 1 rip total :
    Copy CRC 3B936721
GDR8162B burst mode; 1 rip total :
     Copy CRC BF821579


Two quick conclusions. The two cd16 are giving the same results. The Lite-On SOHC4832k is giving the exact same results as the Samsung SH-S162L (no C2).

And finally, we can compare the tracks...

Code: [Select]
EAC SOHC4832k-burst vs. EAC SOHC4832k
>30 repeated 0:05:54.145

EAC SOHC4832k-burst vs. GDR8162B-burst
>30 repeated 0:02:52.251

EAC SOHC4832k-burst vs. GDR8162B
>30 repeated 0:02:52.251
different 0:03:47.592 - 0:03:47.891
different 0:04:41.137 - 0:04:41.440


For me, the most important result is the LG GDR8162B in burst mode. In burst mode, it basically look very much like the result of the the various Mediatek drives (SH-S162L, LH-20A1P, cd16, SOHC4832k), it has the same 30 repeated samples. In secure mode, there are different differences.

If you factor out the 30 repeated sample error, up to now, it was only the Mediatek based drives that did agree with themselves, and the two BenQ drive were giving different results. The fact that the Panasonic based drive give the same result in burst mode, while having a different behaviour in secure mode, leads me to believe that the track extracted by the MediaTek drives is the correct one.

Of course, I welcome any additional comments...

Have a good night...

Jean

Peculiar ripping result...

Reply #10 –
Hi,

I've just realised that I forgot one missing important information in my latest post. This is mostly for Greynol.

First the SH-S162L rips.

Code: [Select]
SH-S162L secure mode (-c2; -cache); 1 rip total :
    Track quality 97.2 %
    Copy CRC 87104475
SH-S162L secure mode (+c2; -cache); 3 rips total :
    Track quality 100.0 %
    Copy CRC 17870E20
    Copy CRC 17870E20
    Copy CRC 17870E20
SH-S162L burst mode; 1 rip total
    Copy CRC BC1A150E


Then, the other rips.

Code: [Select]
cd16b#2 secure (+c2; -cache); 1 rip total :
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Copy CRC BC1A150E
cd16b#1 secure (+c2; -cache); 2 rips total :
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Copy CRC BC1A150E
     Copy CRC BC1A150E
SOHC4832k secure (-c2; +cache); 1 rip total :
     Track quality 97.2 %
     Copy CRC 87104475
SOHC4832k burst mode; 1 rip total :
     Copy CRC BC1A150E
GDR8162B (+c2; +cache); 1 rip total :
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Copy CRC 3B936721
GDR8162B burst mode; 1 rip total :
     Copy CRC BF821579


Have fun...

Jean
 

Peculiar ripping result...

Reply #11 –
Hi again,

I promised Greynol one more rip, so here it is. Sorry for the delay, but the rip took 7 hours.

Code: [Select]
LH-20A1P secure mode (-c2; +cache); 1 rip total :
     Track quality 97.2 %
     Copy CRC 87104475
LH-20A1P secure mode (+c2; +cache); 1 rip total :
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Copy CRC 3ED614F4
LH-20A1P burst mode; 1 rip total
     Copy CRC BC1A150E


Now for the WAV diffs...

Code: [Select]
EAC 20A1P-burst vs. EAC 20A1P-noc2
>30 repeated 0:05:54.145

EAC 20A1P-burst vs. EAC 20A1P
>30 repeated 0:03:00.719


Something I forgot to mention but that is potentially interesting.
All the runs secure without C2 (SH-S162L, LH20A1P, HP400c) trigger retry on track 2 (track quality is not 100%). What is interesting is that retries start usually about 1/3rd of the way in track 2 and continue to the very end of the track. Only the first line of red dot is illuminated. On the other hand, when dBamp did retry (cd16), it only retried a section of the track and not till the end. It looks like EAC is stuck in retry mode and forget to go back to normal mode after the problematic section.

Have fun...

Jean

Peculiar ripping result...

Reply #13 –
Quote from: greynol on
So do you get consistent results between multiple rips using C2 pointers?


There is two aspects of consistency, for a specific drive and across drives.

Across drives, I don't have any consistency. Each drive gave me a different track and a different CRC. So, no consistency across drives with C2 enabled.

There is only three drives where I did multiple rips with C2 enabled, the SH-S162L (3 rips), the PX230A (2 rips) and the cd16 (3 rips). In all three cases, the various rips on the same drive were giving the same CRC. So, the consistency on a specific drive seems pretty high.

I hope this does answer your question.

Have fun...

Jean