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Topic: foobar2000 v2.0 bugs (Read 132418 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: foobar2000 v2.0 bugs

Reply #550 –
Regarding Converter vs 32bit fixed-point,
I obviously meant to do it properly, but I seem to have lost my train of thought there sometime last year, took warnings off but never implemented & validated encoding. Fixing this properly now.

Quote from: wojak on
There are 32 bit int audio files (maybe not many but still there are) so some people want to use them. If we can play and convert 16bit and 24 bit files properly why make it impossible to play and convert 32 bit int files properly? It was "technically" impossible in 32 bit FB but in 64 bit FB it should be normal - out-of-the-box thing. To be honest I thought that this is the main reason to implement 64 bit FB. I do not need to know how many people and why want to use it. If it will be implemented I surely will use it. Someone said earlier that his DAC can "see" 32bit int file so why not to let him use this feature (and again: I do not need to know why he needs it or does it make any audible difference, it just is possible and FB2.0 64 bit can do it technically, so why not?) If there is any reason to deliberately block such a feature why not also block 24 bit or 16 bit? Or anything else? I do not want to offend you (I am really grateful for your hard work on this program) and I do not know anything about programming - maybe it is very hard to implement such a feature - if so, probably most users will understand why it is not implemented but if it is just a matter of "justification" of someones need to use 32 bit int then I still hope that one day you will implement, even without legitimate purpose.  Especcially that another program of yours can do it already. Once again - big thankyou for your program.
32bit fixedpoint audio only makes sense in DAC design - handling unpadded 24bit data is generally more complex than handling the same data padded to 32bit. However, you're never actually going to hear or measure differences in last 8 bits in analog signal coming out of your DAC.

So, playback of 32bit fixedpoint was working well enough in past foobar2000 versions already - as you can never possibly hear or measure the difference in analog output.

That said, I'm not actively blocking anything, current behavior of Converter is an oversight that is being corrected.
Microsoft Windows: We can't script here, this is bat country.

Re: foobar2000 v2.0 bugs

Reply #551 –
Just noticed that the beta versions do not save the current player state if you restart (or shutdown) the computer without turning off the player itself. Instead of loading last player state the last saved one is started. Checked with blank profile on beta 28. In stable version 1.6.16 with blank profile everything works fine. Only player and all the standard components are installed. Win10 x64 21H1.

updated
I have tested all previous versions, the latest working one is beta 24.

Re: foobar2000 v2.0 bugs

Reply #552 –
Quote from: 0x00000ed on
Just noticed that the beta versions do not save the current player state if you restart (or shutdown) the computer without turning off the player itself. Instead of loading last player state the last saved one is started. Checked with blank profile on beta 28. In stable version 1.6.16 with blank profile everything works fine. Only player and all the standard components are installed. Win10 x64 21H1.

updated
I have tested all previous versions, the latest working one is beta 24.
Good find, fixed for the next build, thanks for reporting.
Microsoft Windows: We can't script here, this is bat country.

Re: foobar2000 v2.0 bugs

Reply #553 –
Quote from: Peter on
Quote from: dore.moni on
Peter, if it is impossible to fix all exclusive modes, maybe just set my settings in Advanced menu by default in foobar?
Is the device name exactly spelled "RME DAC" ?
I'll add it to internal workarounds list so you no longer need to change advanced settings.

1. The device name is RME ADI-2 Pro FS, but in foobar its name is different for different RME outputs.

Please see my attachment. By the way i will suggest to rename all exlusive outputs from 'Default: Souncard name [exclusive]' to 'Exclusive: Souncard name'. Because WASAPI exclusive output is not a default in Windows and will confuse some users what to choose. And maybe it's possible to display group of the same cards 'RME ADI-2 Pro' first and the name of its output after, so that they will be in correct alphabetical order. I mean like this:

Default: RME ADI-2 Pro: AES
Default: RME ADI-2 Pro: Analog (1+2)
Default: RME ADI-2 Pro: Phones

Exclusive: RME ADI-2 Pro: AES
Exclusive: RME ADI-2 Pro: Analog (1+2)
Exclusive: RME ADI-2 Pro: Phones



2. I have many other different players and DACs, and almost all of them works correct for WASAPI exclusive output with the settings i found.
Exclusive output overrides=on Use event=off in Advanced menu
That's why i thought maybe this settings will be optimal as default for everyone (if one prefer to use WASAPI exclusive output).


3. My third question is why 3 other combination of exclusive output settings don't work?
RME drivers are known to be one of the best and reference among professional DACs and souncards.

Re: foobar2000 v2.0 bugs

Reply #554 –
Quote from: Peter on
Quote from: dore.moni on
Converter in foobar v2.0 have 3 issues:

1. I have playlist with 32bit int files in wav or flac. If i want to export it to 32bit int wav without bitdepth change, just format conversion, there is no such option. Only 32bit, but it's floating. So the bits in files will be changed. Maybe it's wise to add such an option to choose 32bit or 32bit-float?
2. Even if i press convert, converter doesn't remind of lossy bits operation. I checked foobar v1.6.16, it does remind
3. After conversion there is annoying window 'Converter output'. And there is no option to disable it
1 + 2, looks like an oversight, fixing. Thanks for reporting.
3. Checkbox for this is shown in conversion progress dialog, I guess it's hard to see or click if conversion finishes near instantly.


3. It was hard to find at first. Maybe a good idea to move this checkbox option to the other 'Settings >When done'? Like the same setting 'Show full status report'

Re: foobar2000 v2.0 bugs

Reply #555 –
Quote from: Peter on
PS
I'm still waiting for someone to enlighten me about legitimate purposes of 32bit integer audio. I can't think of any.

The difference in 24bit files and 32bit is unnoticeable for human hearing. But only if there is no processing done with bits. I mean No volume change and resampling in foobar, no digital volume change in DAC.

But if for example you play 24bit file in foobar and change volume -12 or -24 dB, foobar will convert 32bit floating output to 24bit int without dithring, and there will remain only 20bits of data, 4 MSB bits will be lost. The DAC has its own processor and if volume is changed in DAC some information will be lost further.

If foobar will convert 64bit floating output to 32bit int and DAC has 32bit input, then all original 24bits will be preserved and DAC will receive them all, even if foobar change volume down to -48dB (wich is -8bits). Then DAC will process volume control in 42bits internaly, then it will make conversion to final 32bits with special dithering. After that DAC chip will do 16x resampling with full 24bits (not 20bits like in first examle). RME claims that in such a way their digital volume control is one of the best and is even better than analog volume control


Most modern good quality DACs have 32bit input and 32bit D/A chip.

P.S. I've found a link with another good comment about this 32 bit int problem in foobar:
https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,121171.msg999315.html#msg999315

Re: foobar2000 v2.0 bugs

Reply #556 –
This is RME manual (see attachement pages 89-90)

34.20 Digital Volume Control

The ADI-2 Pro deliberately avoids an analog level adjustment by means of a potentiometer. Its
digital version surpasses an analog one in practically every conceivable point. Typical
disadvantages of setting with potentiometers:
• Synchronicity errors lead to panoramic shifts and significant volume deviations left / right, in
particular near the end points of the adjustment range.
• In the middle setting range, there is an increased crosstalk and changes in the frequency
response. Changes in the frequency response also occur at the end regions of the
adjustment path.
• The setting range for optimum volume adjustment is often too small, or at the lower or
upper end of the potentiometer's adjustment range.
• Non-reproducible settings (except 0 and 11).
• Higher THD/THD+N. A point well known to measurement technicians. As soon as an
analog potentiometer is in the signal path, the unstable contact between wiper and resistive
track causes noise, which contains both THD (distortion) and N (noise), even in the
stationary state. Thus the -110 dB of a DAC quickly gets reduced to for example -80 or -70
dB.

Special volume ICs, which activate different resistance values by means of numerous electronic
switches, avoid some of the above mentioned points. Unfortunately, even the best of these ICs
do not achieve either THD or dynamics of the DACs used in the ADI-2 Pro, thus would affect its
analog output signal.

However, none of this is an issue with RME's digital volume control!
In fact an analog volume control has a (theoretical) advantage in only one point, namely the
maximum signal to noise ratio at a higher level reduction. In reality, current circuitry overturns
the theory, and the SNR at the output of such a device is no better than that of a digitally controlled
one. This is even more true the better the DA converter works and the less noise it has -
just like the ADI-2 Pro, which provides the maximum noise ratio over a wide level range of 20
dB, thanks to its four reference levels realized in the analog domain.

The most often cited issue of a digital volume control is an alleged loss of resolution at higher
attenuation. An example: 117 dB dynamic roughly equals 19 bit resolution. A volume attenuation
of 48 dB (8 bit) leaves 11 bit of resolution. Such a simple, but important details omitting
argumentation, usually ends with: the music must sound distorted in quieter parts, and the signal
to noise ratio is down to a useless 69 dB.

The former is simply wrong, the latter irrelevant in practice. Indeed there is a reduced signal to
noise ratio, but it doesn't matter, as the noise was not audible before (below the hearing threshold),
and is still not audible after lowering the level. And the reduced SNR also applies to
devices with potentiometers, since the potentiometer is never placed at the output, but in the
middle of the circuit, followed by further electronics which also add some basic noise.
The quality of the ADI-2 Pro's digital volume control is best shown by measurements. Hard
times coming up for convinced supporters of the analog control, because here it is very clear
that the disadvantages of a digital volume adjustment, such as roughness and distortions at
higher attenuation, simply do not exist - at least with RME.

The following measurement shows a digital full-scale sine of 1 kHz, 16 bits without dither, which
is reduced in level by 40 dB. Also shown are a full-scale sine of 1 kHz with 24 bit, at 60 dB and
96.3 dB level attenuation, which is the lowest volume setting the ADI-2 Pro offers.
A high-resolution FFT like HpW Works makes it possible to disassemble the signal into
individual frequencies, and to identify unwanted components down to a level of -190 dBFS. The
measurement shows that the undithered 16 bit signal does not produce any distortion or other
tones above -170 dBFS. So at a volume setting of -40 dB the measurable THD is -130 dB. At 24
bit a volume setting of -60 dB also achieves -130 dB without distortion. And at a volume setting
of -96.3 dB there are still -93 dB THD measurable.

These results clearly show that distortion products of the digital volume control are not drowned
by the DAC's noise, but are not generated at all. It works perfectly even with an undithered 16
bit signal, no detectable distortion products are produced.

If the volume control is measured at the analog output, the demonstrable THD is reduced to
around -100 dB at a volume setting of -60 dB, by the self-noise of the DAC (SNR 117 dB RMS
unweighted). In the above measurement that would be seen as straight noise floor at -160
dBFS. The digital volume control of the ADI-2 Pro therefore works much more precisely and
cleaner than required for current top-level DACs.

In summary:
RME's digital volume control in 42 bit TotalMix technology avoids all the disadvantages of
analog level control via pots, is easy to use, offers reproducible settings, and the highest sound
quality.

Re: foobar2000 v2.0 bugs

Reply #557 –
ReFacets Folder = $directory(%path%)
doesn’t work anymore, shows pointless or a mix of folders and albums!  :(

In Facets I used Folder = $directory(%path%)
I use two ore sometimes three times „Folder“ and then Album and so on...
The first 2 (or even 3) columns show perfectly my folder structure:

What’s going on with ReFacets?
And yes, simple Genre - Artist - Album - etc. works.

I went back to Facets.

Erich

Re: foobar2000 v2.0 bugs

Reply #558 –
Beta 29 x64, portable.
Upon opening FB2K window is not maximized. If I maximize the window, exit, restart, the window is not maximized again. Does not happen in Beta 27 (haven't tested Beta 28).

Re: foobar2000 v2.0 bugs

Reply #559 –
Probably a false alarm, but Trojan:Win32/Bearfoos.A!ml was detected in Beta 29 64bits by Defender.

Re: foobar2000 v2.0 bugs

Reply #560 –
Quote from: iangk on
Beta 29 x64, portable.
Upon opening FB2K window is not maximized. If I maximize the window, exit, restart, the window is not maximized again. Does not happen in Beta 27 (haven't tested Beta 28).
This is also the case here, please fix.  Does not happen in Beta 28.

Re: foobar2000 v2.0 bugs

Reply #562 –
New bug in Beta 29: foobar2000 no longer remembers if it's main window was maximized.

Easy to reproduce:
1. Run foobar2000 and maximize window.
2. Close foobar2000.
3. Run foobar2000 again.

Re: foobar2000 v2.0 bugs

Reply #563 –
Quote from: Chibisteven on
New bug in Beta 29: foobar2000 no longer remembers if it's main window was maximized.

Easy to reproduce:
1. Run foobar2000 and maximize window.
2. Close foobar2000.
3. Run foobar2000 again.

yup, same with me on Windows 11 Pro.
using Nvidia display driver v431.41
and a EVGA/Nvidia RTX 3070 Ti 8GB gfx card.

Re: foobar2000 v2.0 bugs

Reply #564 –
F2K v2.0 beta 29
Two playlist annoyances:
-it does still have those abrupt jumps to anywhere when changing something that can alter the name of the group.
-it's very slow switch from tab to tab that it has a lot of content (more than 500 items and up), and the situation gets worse the more number of items.
 

Re: foobar2000 v2.0 bugs

Reply #565 –
Quote from: iangk on
Beta 29 x64, portable.
Upon opening FB2K window is not maximized. If I maximize the window, exit, restart, the window is not maximized again. Does not happen in Beta 27 (haven't tested Beta 28).
29 too.

Quote from: Fabcore on
F2K v2.0 beta 29
Two playlist annoyances:
-it does still have those abrupt jumps to anywhere when changing something that can alter the name of the group.
-it's very slow switch from tab to tab that it has a lot of content (more than 500 items and up), and the situation gets worse the more number of items.
Tested on 100k tracks in multiple tabs, everything works for me.

Re: foobar2000 v2.0 bugs

Reply #566 –
Thanks for the bug reports. Making a new build addressing the maximized window regression.

Quote from: Fabcore on
F2K v2.0 beta 29
Two playlist annoyances:
-it does still have those abrupt jumps to anywhere when changing something that can alter the name of the group.
-it's very slow switch from tab to tab that it has a lot of content (more than 500 items and up), and the situation gets worse the more number of items.
More details please.
Components installed?
Album covers in playlist enabled?
Columns used in playlist? Grouping pattern?
Does getting rid of grouping or covers improve?
Microsoft Windows: We can't script here, this is bat country.

Re: foobar2000 v2.0 bugs

Reply #567 –
Maybe this is reported before, but I did not find it:

In Foobar2000 V2.0 beta 30 64 bits version: On a large library when right clicking in the Album List (Folder view) on a large folder or the root folder Foobar freezes (gets unresponsive) for several minutes before showing the context menu,

In the  V2 beta 30 32 bits version the context menu appears much quicker, but is still slower than in Foobar 1.6.

I noticed this problem since (around) V2.0 beta 26.

Re: foobar2000 v2.0 bugs

Reply #569 –
When trying to download Beta30.exe, "Trojan:Win32/Wacatac.B!ml" is detected!?

Re: foobar2000 v2.0 bugs

Reply #570 –
Quote from: grimes on
Do you have a corrupted Media Library?

Thanks for the suggestion.
I will try to remove and rebuild the library in the 64 bits version. In all other versions of Foobar (1.6 and v2 32 bits) it works fine with the same source files.

Re: foobar2000 v2.0 bugs

Reply #573 –
Quote from: Andy Foo on
Quote from: grimes on
  • Save metadb.sqlite
  • remove metadb.sqlite
  • Remove music folders in Preferences|Media Library
  • Add music folders

Thanks. Will do and let you know.

- deleted the metadb.sqlite file
- removed the music folders in Preferences|Media libray
- Added them again
- Pressed Apply and waited until Foobar was completely ready with scanning the library

Still the same problem. Right clicking in the Album list on the root folder (large library around 9000 albums) freezes V2 64 bits for several minutes (none responding) before showing the context menu.
I have a portable install of all Foobars (V2 64 and 32bit and V1.6) on a NUC with internal M.2 Samsung SSD. As said, no problem with the V2 32 bit version and no problem with the 1.6 version. All use the same source folders.

It almost seems if the 64 bit version is doing an unindexed search in the database for all the properties before showing the context menu. If I right click in the Album List on a folder with fewer albums the context menu appears quicker. It seems directly related to the number of albums/tracks. As said; V2 32 bits and V1.6 work fine.

Re: foobar2000 v2.0 bugs

Reply #574 –
Maybe a component is to blame? Third parties can be responsible for showing/hiding/greying out their own menu items depending on the properties of selection. Can you try another 64bit install without components?