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Topic: Mailing lists vs web-forums (Read 4914 times) previous topic - next topic
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Mailing lists vs web-forums

Quote
Originally posted by Jon Ingram
The core vorbis developers don't read this board that often.
Core developers seem to like email-based mailing list -type of discussion list more. That's why HA will be probably the first messageboard in the net to integrate email-based mailing list and web-based discussion-forum. The system is very nearly done, private testing will begin probably in few days.
Juha Laaksonheimo

Mailing lists vs web-forums

Reply #1 –
Quote
The system is very nearly done, private testing will begin probably in few days.


if you need any help testing,  i have no life at the moment...

later
mike

Mailing lists vs web-forums

Reply #2 –
Quote
Originally posted by JohnV
Core developers seem to like email-based mailing list -type of discussion list more.


Message boards are
  - extremly time consuming
  - need to be online all the time

You can develop programs or you can search for new articles
in a message board maze and read the same articles again
and again and again and again and again.

Mailing lists/newsgroups are much more effective.

  - you can filter uninteresting persons
  - you can score threads depending on persons
  - you read every article once and only once
  - much much faster, because all works locally (memory bandwidth is 10^9 bit/s, modem bandwidth is 3*10^4 bit/s)
  - you can store interesting articles
  - you can do a lot of automatic stuff by scripts

This message board still not works with Linux (currently I'm using
Windows 2000). I've tested now 3 Linux computers. Posting is not possible.
--  Frank Klemm

Mailing lists vs web-forums

Reply #3 –
1. There's no way you can form this kind of community, based on mailing lists. Here are 15 different sections+ a front page. There's no way to create a solid cross format audio community with many mailing lists or many news groups.
2. Mailing lists usually don't allow html -> no graphics
3. Mailing lists don't allow polls like vbulletin.
4. Mailing lists don't allow proper moderation or editing of the messages.
5. If web message boards are slow, get a faster connection than an ancient modem. Modems are over 30 years old ancient technology.
6. You can post a message linking to another message or thread in another forum. No possiblity to link to a certain message in mailing list, except if you link to a web-based archive.
7. web forums are much easier for inexperienced end-users. You don't have to setup almost anything (except register). For a proper use of mailing lists, many users would have to change to a better email-client.

Quote
This message board still not works with Linux (currently I'm using Windows 2000). I've tested now 3 Linux computers. Posting is not possible.
8. This message board provably works with Linux. Your system is not working or you use an ancient browser like Netscape 4.x or something with your Linux system. Try latest Mozilla or Opera.

9. However, since we recognaise the good points of mailing lists, the integrated mailing list -web forum possibility was created.
Juha Laaksonheimo

Mailing lists vs web-forums

Reply #4 –
Quote
Originally posted by JohnV
5. If web message boards are slow, get a faster connection than an ancient modem. Modems are over 30 years old ancient technology.


would if i could.  currently the only thing i could get that would be faster than my 56k modem would be isdn and that costs a bloody fortune in comparison :eek:

think before you say shit like this.  there are people on the net who cannot get a connection higher than 22-23k.
Dan

Mailing lists vs web-forums

Reply #5 –
Quote
Originally posted by JohnV

4. Mailing lists don't allow proper moderation or editing of the messages.


Mailing lists can be moderated without problems. Editing your messages
after the fact isn't possible, but that can have advantages as well.

Quote
5. If web message boards are slow, get a faster connection than an ancient modem. Modems are over 30 years old ancient technology.


Has it ever occured to you that in some pretty large parts of the world that just isn't possible?

Quote
6. You can post a message linking to another message or thread in another forum. No possiblity to link to a certain message in mailing list, except if you link to a web-based archive.


You already shot your own point here.

Quote
8. This message board provably works with Linux. Your system is not working or you use an ancient browser like Netscape 4.x or something with your Linux system. Try latest Mozilla or Opera.


Mozilla has always done the trick for me. Dunno about Netcape. What is Frank using?

--
GCP

Mailing lists vs web-forums

Reply #6 –
Quote
Originally posted by Frank Klemm
This message board still not works with Linux (currently I'm using
Windows 2000). I've tested now 3 Linux computers. Posting is not possible.


A browser problem is not an OS problem.  I've used the board on Linux before as have others who participate in this site.  Netscape 4.x is an outdated browser which is not standard compliant (extremely bad and buggy CSS support, non-standard and buggy DOM support, outdated and buggy Javascript (ECMAScript) support... all are well defined standards).

If you use a non-broken standards compliant browser like Mozilla, Konqueror, or IE, or Netscape 6+ (mozilla), then your browser problems should go away.

Mailing lists vs web-forums

Reply #7 –
About mailing lists vs web forums, the argument should soon be moot.  Sphoid and I are about done with a mailing list to VB gateway script which will become part of the new site design so that users which prefer one medium over the other will now have a choice of which to use.

Mailing lists vs web-forums

Reply #8 –
Quote
Originally posted by Garf
Mailing lists can be moderated without problems. Editing your messages after the fact isn't possible, but that can have advantages as well.
Editing other messages as well, which are for example against the site policy (piracy etc.) is afterwards impossible.. unless somebody is going to check every message before mailing list gateway sends the messages further.
Quote
Has it ever occured to you that in some pretty large parts of the world that just isn't possible?
Yes, but I was talking to Frank. He hasn't implied that where he lives in Germany, it's not possible to get a faster connection.
Juha Laaksonheimo

Mailing lists vs web-forums

Reply #9 –
Quote
Originally posted by JohnV He hasn't implied that where he lives in Germany, it's not possible to get a faster connection.

offtopic:
Hehe thats usual for Germany. I have the same problem

Mailing lists vs web-forums

Reply #10 –
I work for NTL and probably the only benefit is free digital tv and free 1meg cable modem service.

Mailing lists vs web-forums

Reply #11 –
Quote
Message boards are
 - extremly time consuming
 - need to be online all the time

You can develop programs or you can search for new articles
in a message board maze and read the same articles again
and again and again and again and again.

Mailing lists/newsgroups are much more effective.

 - you can filter uninteresting persons
 - you can score threads depending on persons
 - you read every article once and only once
 - much much faster, because all works locally (memory bandwidth is 10^9 bit/s, modem bandwidth is 3*10^4 bit/s)
 - you can store interesting articles
 - you can do a lot of automatic stuff by scripts

I totally agree with Frank.

Mailing lists vs web-forums

Reply #12 –
Now thats reviving an old thread 

Mailing lists vs web-forums

Reply #13 –
I prefer forums.

-Illustrated posts
-All posts in a thread displayed together : less repetition (several people answering the same thing at the same time)
-The mailbox is not full of hundreds of messages everytime four people begin flaming
-the "new posts" are not reset each time I connect the internet (if I don't read the new messages of an ML each time I connect, I won't be able to sort them next time)

Well, these arguments are all questionable, I must admit... in fact, it's something else...Basically a matter of taste. I have the feeling that all that is posted to a mailing list is lost, while I like posting big threads in a forum, knowing they will stay online, and that people will read them for a long time.

Think also about the "recommended Lame settings". How can this be done in an ML ? Not speaking of FAQs or even technical articles (but there are still none here).

Mailing lists vs web-forums

Reply #14 –
Pio your points are reasonable from an newbe/end-user point of view. But the original question was what developers do prefer and how the alternatives suit their needs.

Mailing lists vs web-forums

Reply #15 –
Quote
Pio your points are reasonable from an newbe/end-user point of view. But the original question was what developers do prefer and how the alternatives suit their needs.

What question? I don't think you can generalize that all developers want mailing-list interface. Strangely I have an impression that devs close to 30 years old or over prefer mailing lists, while younger devs often like web-interface. Also Linux users seem to like mailing lists more. I don't know if that's true, but somehow I have that kind of impression.
Juha Laaksonheimo

Mailing lists vs web-forums

Reply #16 –
I think that overall, mailing lists are better for a group where only a small number of people communicate about issues (core development team) of a more "notice" type nature, with the option of having many people read the messages, while web forums are much more conducive to building an actual community and carrying out more in depth discussion/fostering knowledge building, etc.

Quote
What question? I don't think you can generalize that all developers want mailing-list interface. Strangely I have an impression that devs close to 30 years old or over prefer mailing lists, while younger devs often like web-interface. Also Linux users seem to like mailing lists more. I don't know if that's true, but somehow I have that kind of impression.


I kind of get this impression also sometimes, but I think it has more to do with the fact that people just don't like change.  People who have been using mailing lists for a long time seem to prefer that, while people who have instead had more exposure to web forums prefer that instead.  Personally, the reason I like web forums so much is that nothing is tied to my actual PC.  I can instantly look up any messages I want with a nice search function (not all mailing lists have this), and I don't have to worry about synchronization issues between different machines (this can be solved, but it is still a hassle).  I don't have to worry about archiving my messages or having them all wiped away by a hd crash or anything like that.  I like being able to go online and just see all the information right there and have a great ability to control and manipulate the information (including realtime moderation, extensive markup and layout control over messages, etc)  in an easy manner.  I think a lot of this is more difficult to do with mailing lists due to their relatively antiquated structure.  Also, I find that with mailing lists it's a lot easier to miss important information unless you happen to read every single mail message.  Somehow there seems to be less of an incentive to bother reading entire threads, etc.

Just for the fun of it, here's a link to a Linux board which I have found to be quite successful.. : http://forums.gentoo.org/

(Seems Gentoo is always on the cutting edge, even in discussion methodologies )

Mailing lists vs web-forums

Reply #17 –
Quote
I work for NTL and probably the only benefit is free digital tv and free 1meg cable modem service.

They're as good to their employees as their customers then? ;-)

(don't worry - I don't expect an answer!).


btw, I wouldn't join a mailing list if it didn't have an archive, for the very reasons Dibrom has mentioned. However, I have found some excellent mailing list archives, turned up via Google when researching one topic or another, which have been great adverts for joining the lists themselves.

Fewer message boards seem to work this way - but I guess that's just a question of people linking to individual messages on the board (or not!). For the newbie, it's very easy to link to an archived mail list message, but sometimes difficult to link to a specific message board message, in a way that doesn't link to their log-in information / other messages / change when the board is re-organised.

Cheers,
David.

very happy with HA and web forums in general. As long as they don't die, or delete old messages, or change the links to old messages.

EDIT: P.S. - and I'm always frustrated by the slowness of Usenet, and the non-universal propagation of some messages - but the "self moderation" (or not!) of some groups is fun!