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Topic: High distortion (Read 11868 times) previous topic - next topic
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High distortion

Hello,
I have copied some songs from an original CD using EAC. I have not compressed them. They are pure WAV files.
In my opinion they sound good when playing them in Win10, although they have a "strong" sound.

Also, I'm using FXsound's DFX Audio Enhancer. I really like this software and it has a special feature: in WinXP, using DFX and Winamp (also other players) it's possible to create WAV files with those improvements crated by DFX and play those files in other sound systems where is not possible to install DFX.

In order to get that, I have installed WinXP, DFX and Winamp on a computer. Now the problem is that when using WinXP + DFX + Winamp (also other players) I get terrible distortion (I think it's clipping). Of course, if I try to create WAV files with DFX improvements the resulting files will have distortion too.

As I said before, when using Win10 + DFX + Winamp I get a good sound (but it's strong).
Is this a problem with WinXP? Or with DFX? Or with original CD?
Any idea to remove that distortion?

Thank you.

Re: High distortion

Reply #1 –
What happens when you disable the DFX Audio Enhancer?

Maybe DFX Audio enhancer is boosting the audio too much
Who are you and how did you get in here ?
I'm a locksmith, I'm a locksmith.

Re: High distortion

Reply #2 –
I don't think DFX does anything more than EQ, so clipping is a possibility.

If you want to quickly simulate what clipping sounds like so you can identify it, put a stupid number in the replaygain Track Gain field for a song in foobar2000 (+30 should do the trick. Turn down your volume slider!!), or use something like Audacity to boost the audio.

I can't tell what "strong" means in terms of audio. Probably you mean boosted midrange frequencies? Automatically limited audio is also an option.

Re: High distortion

Reply #3 –
If such program supports floating point precision when it outputs to the sound API, what might happen since Windows Vista is that the audio is DSP compressed after DFX and would be why it distorts in XP.
Use Winamp equalizer to lower the gain (do not use the volume, since that used to control the windows mixer, at least in some of the output plugins) and see if that reduces the problem.

Re: High distortion

Reply #4 –
Quote from: jalexm on
Hello,
I have copied some songs from an original CD using EAC. I have not compressed them. They are pure WAV files.
In my opinion they sound good when playing them in Win10, although they have a "strong" sound.

Also, I'm using FXsound's DFX Audio Enhancer. I really like this software and it has a special feature: in WinXP, using DFX and Winamp (also other players) it's possible to create WAV files with those improvements crated by DFX and play those files in other sound systems where is not possible to install DFX.

In order to get that, I have installed WinXP, DFX and Winamp on a computer. Now the problem is that when using WinXP + DFX + Winamp (also other players) I get terrible distortion (I think it's clipping). Of course, if I try to create WAV files with DFX improvements the resulting files will have distortion too.

As I said before, when using Win10 + DFX + Winamp I get a good sound (but it's strong).
Is this a problem with WinXP? Or with DFX? Or with original CD?
Any idea to remove that distortion?

Just a friendly reminder of TOS8  (sanctioning claims about sound quality without controlled listening) and the potential fallacy of judging sound quality based solely on personal perception.

If you really are distorting the sound, more reliable means for identifying and quantifying it would involve inspection of the files before and after processing using one of the good free audio editors such as Audacity.  Any reliably audible distortion of sound, and even those that are well below audiblity can be reliably and quickly detected using the RMAA freeware audio testing suite.

Often a good technical test can quickly lead to an effective solution of the problem. For example, if you are clipping the signal due to bad gain staging, a sine wave will become visibly and measurably distorted. The tools I've recommended can help you with this problem with a few minutes of testing and no out-of-pocket cash.

Re: High distortion

Reply #5 –
Quote from: A_Man_Eating_Duck on
What happens when you disable the DFX Audio Enhancer?
Maybe DFX Audio enhancer is boosting the audio too much
When disabling DFX in WinXP the files sound normal.
In Win10 enabling/disabling DFX there is no audible distortion.
Maybe it's a problem with WinXP.

Re: High distortion

Reply #6 –
Quote from: dhromed on
I don't think DFX does anything more than EQ, so clipping is a possibility.

If you want to quickly simulate what clipping sounds like so you can identify it, put a stupid number in the replaygain Track Gain field for a song in foobar2000 (+30 should do the trick. Turn down your volume slider!!), or use something like Audacity to boost the audio.

I can't tell what "strong" means in terms of audio. Probably you mean boosted midrange frequencies? Automatically limited audio is also an option.
Hello,
I have found and installed an old software called WaveGain. It runs only in WinXP, not in Win10.
I have made some tests.

1) Using WaveGain I analyzed one of the original WAV files. The program shows Gain = -9.68dB.
I think this value is how much it will "decrease" the gain, so the original file is surely clipped.
Maybe that's why I called it "strong". It's a clipped file that I was considering normal. But it's not.

2) Enabling DFX and creating a file with DFX effects and analyzing with WaveGain it shows Gain = -11.28db.
I think that's the reason I get so high distortion.

3) Applying WaveGain over original WAV file and using it to create a new WAV file with DFX effects I get a file with Gain = -8.25dB.
It sounds "strong" too.

4) Applying WaveGain over this new WAV file I get a file with Gain = 0.00dB but it sounds "poor/weak" in my opinion.

Summarizing:
- original wav = -9.68dB ("strong")
- original wav + dfx = -11.28dB (high distortion)
- original wav + wavegain + dfx = -8.25dB ("strong")
- original wav + wavegain + dfx + wavegain = 0.00dB ("poor/weak")

More ideas?




Re: High distortion

Reply #7 –
Quote from: [JAZ] on
If such program supports floating point precision when it outputs to the sound API, what might happen since Windows Vista is that the audio is DSP compressed after DFX and would be why it distorts in XP.
Use Winamp equalizer to lower the gain (do not use the volume, since that used to control the windows mixer, at least in some of the output plugins) and see if that reduces the problem.
I have tried that and distortion really decreases. The problem is how much reduce the gain since each WAV file has more or less distortion.
Please, see my answer to dhromed.

Re: High distortion

Reply #8 –
Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
Quote from: jalexm on
Hello,
I have copied some songs from an original CD using EAC. I have not compressed them. They are pure WAV files.
In my opinion they sound good when playing them in Win10, although they have a "strong" sound.

Also, I'm using FXsound's DFX Audio Enhancer. I really like this software and it has a special feature: in WinXP, using DFX and Winamp (also other players) it's possible to create WAV files with those improvements crated by DFX and play those files in other sound systems where is not possible to install DFX.

In order to get that, I have installed WinXP, DFX and Winamp on a computer. Now the problem is that when using WinXP + DFX + Winamp (also other players) I get terrible distortion (I think it's clipping). Of course, if I try to create WAV files with DFX improvements the resulting files will have distortion too.

As I said before, when using Win10 + DFX + Winamp I get a good sound (but it's strong).
Is this a problem with WinXP? Or with DFX? Or with original CD?
Any idea to remove that distortion?

Just a friendly reminder of TOS8  (sanctioning claims about sound quality without controlled listening) and the potential fallacy of judging sound quality based solely on personal perception.

If you really are distorting the sound, more reliable means for identifying and quantifying it would involve inspection of the files before and after processing using one of the good free audio editors such as Audacity.  Any reliably audible distortion of sound, and even those that are well below audiblity can be reliably and quickly detected using the RMAA freeware audio testing suite.

Often a good technical test can quickly lead to an effective solution of the problem. For example, if you are clipping the signal due to bad gain staging, a sine wave will become visibly and measurably distorted. The tools I've recommended can help you with this problem with a few minutes of testing and no out-of-pocket cash.
Surely I will try the tools you recommended. But why are WAV files copied from original CD clipped?
Also, please look at my answer to dhromed. Give me your opinion about my tests.
Many thanks.

Re: High distortion

Reply #9 –
-9dB
Quote
In order to get that, I have installed WinXP, DFX and Winamp on a computer. Now the problem is that when using WinXP + DFX + Winamp (also other players) I get terrible distortion (I think it's clipping).
What happens when you turn-down Winamp's volume control?   (I assume Winamp's output goes into DFX, and turning it down would give you more headroom.)

Quote
Of course, if I try to create WAV files with DFX improvements the resulting files will have distortion too.
You might try reducing the volume of the WAV file by 6dB or so (with Audacity or whatever audio  editor you have) before processing the WAV.   Then of course, use your normal settings in DFX...   Don't try to make-up for the loss of volume because you'll probably bring-back the clipping.

After processing the WAV, run Amplify in Audacity to check the peaks.    Audacity will pre-scan the file and default to whatever gain is needed for 0dB peaks.    If Amplify defaults to 0dB (no change) you can assume the file is clipped* and you may have to start-over with a lower-volume WAV before DFX processing.   (The default amplification level is the amount of headroom...    If it defaults to +3dB, your current peak is -3dB and you have 3dB of headroom.)

Quote
1) Using WaveGain I analyzed one of the original WAV files. The program shows Gain = -9.68dB.
I think this value is how much it will "decrease" the gain, so the original file is surely clipped.
A ReplayGain (WavGain) value of -9dB doesn't "prove" that it's clipped.   I may be highly-compressed and limited.   The only way to know if it's clipped is to open it in an audio editor an zoom-in to look at the peaks.

Quote
But why are WAV files copied from original CD clipped?
It may not be clipped but if it is, Loudness War...  The mastering engineer intentionally pushed the levels into clipping for maximum loudness/intensity (to make it "strong"?).

Quote
in Win10, although they have a "strong" sound...

...Now the problem is that when using WinXP + DFX + Winamp (also other players) I get terrible distortion
Are you listening on headphones,  or through amplified speakers?    If you're listening on headphones, I'd guess the difference is the hardware, not the operating system.  The Win10 system may have higher analog-output capability (before clipping).    If you're listening through an amplifier, the computer's volume can be turned-down to prevent clipping and you can turn-up the analog amplifier.






*This "trick" for checking for clipping ONLY works after processing.    After normalizing (maximizing) your peaks will hit exactly 0dB, and that's not an indication of clipping.     Most commercial CDs are normalized for 0dB (at least on some tracks) so an indication of no headroom is not necessarily clipping.    But if you've done some other processing and your peaks are at 0dB, the odds are you "tried" to go over 0dB and your file is clipped.  

Re: High distortion

Reply #10 –
Quote from: jalexm on

Surely I will try the tools you recommended. But why are WAV files copied from original CD clipped?

This can happen

(1)  they were clipped as recorded.

(2) They became clipped as processed by the CD player whether hardware or software.

Quote
Also, please look at my answer to dhromed. Give me your opinion about my tests.

Your tests seem unreliable and skimpy.

Re: High distortion

Reply #11 –
Quote from: jalexm on
Hello,
I have found and installed an old software called WaveGain. It runs only in WinXP, not in Win10.
I have made some tests.
I know about wavegain. You don't need that, but it's a good option if you work with wav files (still, foobar2000 can use replaygain on wav files).

Quote from: jalexm on
1) Using WaveGain I analyzed one of the original WAV files. The program shows Gain = -9.68dB.
I think this value is how much it will "decrease" the gain, so the original file is surely clipped.
Maybe that's why I called it "strong". It's a clipped file that I was considering normal. But it's not.

The replaygain target level is not a target of "just below clipping". It is a target of loudness in order to make different tracks to sound approximately equal. Generally it works well, except with extreme cases (you're not going to play classical with heavy metal).
The reference level was once 83dB and was considered too low for most material (that value would have put music on a similar level to Film video) and was moved to 89dB which is the current standard. Still, it is not unusual for users to increase that still a bit, like to 91 or 92dB.

Now a value of -9.68 is high, but not an extreme case. Just checked, the highest case I have is -14dB (it's a mixed session and has distorted parts), and I have other tracks in the -13dB range, both new and old (1997).
What it does mean, though, is that it is not a light track.

Quote from: jalexm on
2) Enabling DFX and creating a file with DFX effects and analyzing with WaveGain it shows Gain = -11.28db.
I think that's the reason I get so high distortion.
Ok, we already anticipated that you were increasing the loudness by using DFX. That just confirms it.

Quote from: jalexm on
3) Applying WaveGain over original WAV file and using it to create a new WAV file with DFX effects I get a file with Gain = -8.25dB.
It sounds "strong" too.
Ok, now it confirms that it isn't just "a little more loud", but "quite more loud", so digital clipping distortion could perfectly be what you're hearing in WinXP.

Quote from: jalexm on
4) Applying WaveGain over this new WAV file I get a file with Gain = 0.00dB but it sounds "poor/weak" in my opinion.

Volume alone is one of the things that can affect the perception of what's good and what's not. That is one of the reasons of that -9.68dB and the Loudness War quoted by @DVDdoug .

Quote from: jalexm on
Summarizing:
- original wav = -9.68dB ("strong")
- original wav + dfx = -11.28dB (high distortion)
- original wav + wavegain + dfx = -8.25dB ("strong")
- original wav + wavegain + dfx + wavegain = 0.00dB ("poor/weak")

You get high distortion on 2 because you get digital clipping, demonstrated by the -8 dB on 3.
Since you are decreasing the volume by a big amount ( > 8 ), you feel something missing, but it is completely a volume issue.

How many volume controls have between your audio player and your speakers? I can name a few: The equalizer in winamp, the volume level in winamp (which might or might not be a software gain inside Winamp as I said above), the wave volume on the windows mixer, the master volume on the windows mixer, and possibly some volume control on the active speakers (or the amplifier that feeds the passive speakers).

Ideally, people would tell you to set all your volumes on the computer to max and only operate the volume in the speakers/amplifier.
In reality, that's excessive in many cases, and you can do a mixture like this:

Set all the volumes on the computer to max and then play something. Increase the volume on the speakers to the max volume that you would enjoy listening to (i.e. not low, and not disturbing).
Then, leave that volume as it is, and reduce the master volume on windows the mixer to normal listening levels.

Normal values might be 1/3th to 1/2 volume on the amplifier and 15 to 40% on the master volume, but it depends completely on what speakers do you have.

Re: High distortion

Reply #12 –
Quote from: DVDdoug on
After processing the WAV, run Amplify in Audacity to check the peaks.    Audacity will pre-scan the file and default to whatever gain is needed for 0dB peaks.    If Amplify defaults to 0dB (no change) you can assume the file is clipped* and you may have to start-over with a lower-volume WAV before DFX processing.  (The default amplification level is the amount of headroom...    If it defaults to +3dB, your current peak is -3dB and you have 3dB of headroom.)

... A ReplayGain (WavGain) value of -9dB doesn't "prove" that it's clipped.  I may be highly-compressed and limited.  The only way to know if it's clipped is to open it in an audio editor an zoom-in to look at the peaks.
I have opened the WAV file in Audacity and zoomed-in. Please, look at the attached image. The top frame is the original (-9.68dB) and bottom frame is the original+dfx (-11.28dB). Well, they don't seem clipped. The Amplify function shows 0dB for both and Find Clipping function returns nothing for both. Since they are not clipped, where all that distortion come from? What kind of distortion is this? Is there any way to avoid it?

Re: High distortion

Reply #13 –
Quote from: [JAZ] on
Quote from: jalexm on
Hello,
I have found and installed an old software called WaveGain. It runs only in WinXP, not in Win10.
I have made some tests.
I know about wavegain. You don't need that, but it's a good option if you work with wav files (still, foobar2000 can use replaygain on wav files).

Quote from: jalexm on
1) Using WaveGain I analyzed one of the original WAV files. The program shows Gain = -9.68dB.
I think this value is how much it will "decrease" the gain, so the original file is surely clipped.
Maybe that's why I called it "strong". It's a clipped file that I was considering normal. But it's not.

The replaygain target level is not a target of "just below clipping". It is a target of loudness in order to make different tracks to sound approximately equal. Generally it works well, except with extreme cases (you're not going to play classical with heavy metal).
The reference level was once 83dB and was considered too low for most material (that value would have put music on a similar level to Film video) and was moved to 89dB which is the current standard. Still, it is not unusual for users to increase that still a bit, like to 91 or 92dB.

Now a value of -9.68 is high, but not an extreme case. Just checked, the highest case I have is -14dB (it's a mixed session and has distorted parts), and I have other tracks in the -13dB range, both new and old (1997).
What it does mean, though, is that it is not a light track.

Quote from: jalexm on
2) Enabling DFX and creating a file with DFX effects and analyzing with WaveGain it shows Gain = -11.28db.
I think that's the reason I get so high distortion.
Ok, we already anticipated that you were increasing the loudness by using DFX. That just confirms it.

Quote from: jalexm on
3) Applying WaveGain over original WAV file and using it to create a new WAV file with DFX effects I get a file with Gain = -8.25dB.
It sounds "strong" too.
Ok, now it confirms that it isn't just "a little more loud", but "quite more loud", so digital clipping distortion could perfectly be what you're hearing in WinXP.

Quote from: jalexm on
4) Applying WaveGain over this new WAV file I get a file with Gain = 0.00dB but it sounds "poor/weak" in my opinion.

Volume alone is one of the things that can affect the perception of what's good and what's not. That is one of the reasons of that -9.68dB and the Loudness War quoted by @DVDdoug .

Quote from: jalexm on
Summarizing:
- original wav = -9.68dB ("strong")
- original wav + dfx = -11.28dB (high distortion)
- original wav + wavegain + dfx = -8.25dB ("strong")
- original wav + wavegain + dfx + wavegain = 0.00dB ("poor/weak")

You get high distortion on 2 because you get digital clipping, demonstrated by the -8 dB on 3.
Since you are decreasing the volume by a big amount ( > 8 ), you feel something missing, but it is completely a volume issue.

How many volume controls have between your audio player and your speakers? I can name a few: The equalizer in winamp, the volume level in winamp (which might or might not be a software gain inside Winamp as I said above), the wave volume on the windows mixer, the master volume on the windows mixer, and possibly some volume control on the active speakers (or the amplifier that feeds the passive speakers).

Ideally, people would tell you to set all your volumes on the computer to max and only operate the volume in the speakers/amplifier.
In reality, that's excessive in many cases, and you can do a mixture like this:

Set all the volumes on the computer to max and then play something. Increase the volume on the speakers to the max volume that you would enjoy listening to (i.e. not low, and not disturbing).
Then, leave that volume as it is, and reduce the master volume on windows the mixer to normal listening levels.

Normal values might be 1/3th to 1/2 volume on the amplifier and 15 to 40% on the master volume, but it depends completely on what speakers do you have.
Thanks for your answer. I have learned many things from that.
After some investigation in Audacity it seems the file is not clipped. Please, look at my recent answer to DVDdoug.

Re: High distortion

Reply #14 –
There's something that doesn't look right in that capture, it seems there is a lot of high frequency in the second waveform. Could you add a fequency capture too? (click on the arrow next to the name in each of the wave lines and select spectogram)

Re: High distortion

Reply #15 –
Quote from: [JAZ] on
There's something that doesn't look right in that capture, it seems there is a lot of high frequency in the second waveform. Could you add a fequency capture too? (click on the arrow next to the name in each of the wave lines and select spectogram)
I have attached an image with exactly the same zoom factor as previous image. If you need another zoom factor, please tell me.
The second waveform was created playing the original (-9.68db) in Winamp with its Pre-amp button set to 0dB (default) and DFX enabled.

Re: High distortion

Reply #16 –
Sorry. thee default settings for Audacity for that option are a bit useless for what I wanted to look at.
Go to Edit -> Preferences. Tracks entry, spectograms, and there:

Lineal
0
20000
0
96
0
greyscale unchecked
Frequencies
2048
Hanning
1
spectral selection unchecked

Re: High distortion

Reply #17 –
Quote from: [JAZ] on
Sorry. thee default settings for Audacity for that option are a bit useless for what I wanted to look at.
Go to Edit -> Preferences. Tracks entry, spectograms, and there:

Lineal
0
20000
0
96
0
greyscale unchecked
Frequencies
2048
Hanning
1
spectral selection unchecked
New image attached as you need.
Just for curiosity: to the left of the spectrum frames there's some information about the WAV files. For both I can see Stereo, 44100Hz, 32-bit float, but right clicking each file in Windows Explorer I can see 16bit. Could be this related to that distortion?

Re: High distortion

Reply #18 –
Quote from: jalexm on
... Just for curiosity: to the left of the spectrum frames there's some information about the WAV files. For both I can see Stereo, 44100Hz, 32-bit float, but right clicking each file in Windows Explorer I can see 16bit. Could be this related to that distortion?

No. Audacity converts the samples as it reads them in, by default to 32-bit float format. This allows performing more precise operations on them - for example, if you have a sample value of 499, and you reduce it by half, if you were working in 16-bit integer format your answer could only be either 249 or 250. With floating point the answer is 249.5. It doesn't matter too much for simple operations, but when you daisy chain multiple operations - level change, filter, mix etc - the errors soon add up.  
Regards,
   Don Hills
"People hear what they see." - Doris Day

Re: High distortion

Reply #19 –
Quote from: splice on
Quote from: jalexm on
... Just for curiosity: to the left of the spectrum frames there's some information about the WAV files. For both I can see Stereo, 44100Hz, 32-bit float, but right clicking each file in Windows Explorer I can see 16bit. Could be this related to that distortion?

No. Audacity converts the samples as it reads them in, by default to 32-bit float format. This allows performing more precise operations on them - for example, if you have a sample value of 499, and you reduce it by half, if you were working in 16-bit integer format your answer could only be either 249 or 250. With floating point the answer is 249.5. It doesn't matter too much for simple operations, but when you daisy chain multiple operations - level change, filter, mix etc - the errors soon add up.  

Correct and agreed. However as a practical matter, floating point provides an audible benefit when there are fairly large errors in gain staging, or the business of getting audio levels properly adjusted to exploit the dynamic range of the hardware.

Re: High distortion

Reply #20 –
Ok, thanks for the capture.

There isn't anything bad in that capture either, and it reflects the higher amount of high frequencies (more pink in that graphic) that I anticipated from seeing the waveform.

I guess this is intentional from your settings, and in the end, it seems that there shouldn't be a problem with playing this file as is.

Just out of curiosity. Did you try to play the distorted track on Windows 10? If that plays fine, we can assume that the file is fine, and that either the soundcard or the audio settings on that win XP are set in a way that is prone to make distortions.

I didn't ask before but, do you have a control panel on the taskbar related to the audio settings?? Realtek, soundblaster, cmedia... Some of them had "enchancers" and other settings that could be additionally boosting the audio, causing the distortion. Also, I wonder if the distortion is different if you try to listen with some headphones connected to the line out.

Re: High distortion

Reply #21 –
Quote from: [JAZ] on
Just out of curiosity. Did you try to play the distorted track on Windows 10? If that plays fine, we can assume that the file is fine, and that either the soundcard or the audio settings on that win XP are set in a way that is prone to make distortions.
Yes I did it and the file sounds as bad as in Win10.
Quote
I didn't ask before but, do you have a control panel on the taskbar related to the audio settings?? Realtek, soundblaster, cmedia... Some of them had "enchancers" and other settings that could be additionally boosting the audio, causing the distortion.
All these enhancing settings are disabled. When Winamp creates the WAV file it "plays" quickly the original file, you can hear nothing. It seems a kind of internal process and Winamp uses only its own things, I don't think it uses features of soundcard. In WinXP DFX installs a plugin in Winamp but in Win10 DFX seems a kind of "audio driver" or similar. That's why I need old WinXP to create the files. Of course, after creating WAV+DFX I have to disable DFX when playing that file.

I have found this in DFX support page: If you are hearing distortion, or your overall sound level is too low, at some point in your system, a gain stage is set incorrectly. It's probably not a problem in your Internet audio player or DFX, but an adjustment you need to make. The only thing I can do regarding this is to decrease Winamp Pre-amp button before creating a WAV+DFX file, but every original WAV file has its own level, so I will go crazy doing this.

Also, I'm wondering why WavGain shows -9.68dB and -11.28dB and Audacity shows no clipping. Why am I hearing distortion? What kind of distorion is this?

DFX has a small built-in graphical spectrum analyzer. In WinXP its bars shows much higher levels than in Win10 for the same file. I will post some screenshots later since I'm not in my computer now.

Quote
Also, I wonder if the distortion is different if you try to listen with some headphones connected to the line out.
I think the distortion is not related to headphones, amplifier, etc. I have played the file in other audio systems and could hear the same distorion.

Re: High distortion

Reply #22 –
Obviously, DFX is supposed to alter the sound...   If you don't like the results, don't use it!   ;)

Quote
Also, I'm wondering why WavGain shows -9.68dB and -11.28dB and Audacity shows no clipping.
Dynamic compression and/or limiting (with make-up gain) can be used to boost the overall-average level without boosting/clipping the peaks.    Those are the main tools in the "Loudness War".

Quote
Why am I hearing distortion? What kind of distorion is this?
We don't know because DFX is secretive about what they are doing.   (I hate it when they don't tell you what the software is doing, and I don't own any such software.)

With enough compression/limiting the file will start to sound distorted.      And, I'm not suggest that they are intentionally doing this - It's possible to process a clipped file so that it's no longer clipped, but the file still sounds distorted.  (I've had that happen when I tried the Audacity Clip Fix  effect and there are other processes that can "hide" clipping.)

Re: High distortion

Reply #23 –
Quote from: DVDdoug on
Obviously, DFX is supposed to alter the sound...  If you don't like the results, don't use it!  ;)
No, no, no. DFX is a great software in my opinion. I like it and I've used it for over ten years. Well, their tech support is too bad.

Quote
Quote
Also, I'm wondering why WavGain shows -9.68dB and -11.28dB and Audacity shows no clipping.
Dynamic compression and/or limiting (with make-up gain) can be used to boost the overall-average level without boosting/clipping the peaks.    Those are the main tools in the "Loudness War".
Is there any way to correct this?

Quote
Quote
Why am I hearing distortion? What kind of distorion is this?
We don't know because DFX is secretive about what they are doing.  (I hate it when they don't tell you what the software is doing, and I don't own any such software.)
In fact, when I play the original WAV (-9.68dB) in Win10 I get a great sound. It's "strong" as I said (maybe it's due to dynamic compresion you've just said), but it's great.
The problem is when I play this file in WinXP. In WinXP DFX is a Winamp plugin. In Win10 DFX is a kind of "audio driver".
When I create a new WAV file using Winamp+DFX in WinXP all that distortion appears in the new WAV file.
Maybe I could solve this problem setting Winamp Pre-amp button but I would have to do that to each WAV file. If I have lots of songs, this is not a practical thing to do. This is the whole problem.

Note: If I apply replay gain (WaveGain) to original WAV (-9.68dB) and process the resulting file (0dB) in Winamp+DFX I get a new WAV file with gain = -8.25dB and it doesn't have the same quality as original played in Win10.

Re: High distortion

Reply #24 –
Quote from: jalexm on
The problem is when I play this file in WinXP. In WinXP DFX is a Winamp plugin. In Win10 DFX is a kind of "audio driver".
This is the problem. Winamp audio engine does not use floating point.
Everything is transmitted in 16bits (They added a 24bits integer option later on, but since many plugins didn't support it, it was not recommended to enable it and it is disabled by default).
As such, you need to ensure that the output of the DFX plugin does not clip before coming back to Winamp.

Quote from: jalexm on
Maybe I could solve this problem setting Winamp Pre-amp button but I would have to do that to each WAV file.
Programs that support replaygain (Winamp included) have an option to apply different gains if a track has Replaygain or it doesnt.
I recommend to apply a constant reduction of gain for tracks that don't have replaygain. In this screenshot this value is set to -4, and tracks with replaygain get a gain of +3 (This helps to compensate this "apparent lost of quality").