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Topic: Yalac - Comparisons (Read 212816 times) previous topic - next topic
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Yalac - Comparisons

Reply #125 –
Quote from: Synthetic Soul on
It decodes twice as slowly though.

The ratio my be even better for playback (where disk-io shouldn't matter) or when decoding from memory. I am not sure, if my following estimation for cpu usage of real time playback from memory based upon Destroid's timings and cpu times is valid:
Code: [Select]
Yalacc 0.07    -p1    54.76% 43.49x / 90% 84.83x / 60% -> 60 / 84.83 = 0.707 %
MAC 4.01 beta2 -c2000 54.60% 49.61x / 96% 42.71x / 92% -> 92 / 42.71 = 2.154 %

We will have to wait for a Yalac playback plugin to confirm it. Or for someone, who tells me, why this calculation is wrong...
Quote
...I'm not sure that you can compare a preset name so directly.  Yalac can't expect to compete in every league.

...unless Thomas can squeeze another 0.3-0.4% compression out, so that he can afford to speed encoding up a little.

...I just think that tackling Monkey's Audio head on is unrealistic, especially if you look at Monkey's High surpassing Yalac's Insane compression marginally, and encoding rate substantially.

Very good arguments! I totally agree.

Yalac - Comparisons

Reply #126 –
Quote from: TBeck on
We will have to wait for a Yalac playback plugin to confirm it. Or for someone, who tells me, why this calculation is wrong...


Just to confirm that your calculation is obviously right, and that I think it could be more readable like this:

Code: [Select]
Yalac Normal
Enc: 43,49x @ 90% -> 43,49/0,90 =  48,32x
Dec: 84,83x @ 60% -> 84,83/0,60 = 141,38x

Monkey Normal
Enc: 49,61x @ 96% -> 49,61/0,96 =  51,68x
Dec: 42,71x @ 92% -> 42,71/0,92 =  46,42x


Which shows that Yalac v0.07 Normal encodes slightly slower than Monkey Normal 4.01 but decodes more than three times faster.
I have some results of mine for confirmation:

Code: [Select]
               Yalac Normal     Monkey Normal
Encode            36,53x           40,23x
Decode           106,77x           33,05x


Test repeated on another PC:

Code: [Select]
               Yalac Normal     Monkey Normal
Encode            28,33x           31,19x
Decode            92,53x           29,22x


Both confirming Yalac v0.07 Normal encodes slightly slower than Monkey Normal 4.01 but decodes more than three times faster.

Yalac - Comparisons

Reply #127 –
OK, OK, you guys got me.  Considering I've been harping on about CPU-only time constantly in the last week you would have thought I might have picked up on that one...

In response to Thomas' post I was actually just in the middle of looking at my Process Time (CPU-only) times, when I spotted that Josef had posted.  Here they are anyway:

Code: [Select]
Codec             Encode    Decode
==================================
Yalac   Normal    34.11x    97.49x
Monkeys Normal    41.05x    37.96x
Yalac   High      15.07x    91.01x
Monkeys High      36.31x    34.34x

Just a note to say that you can now view Josef's full comparison details here.
I'm on a horse.

Yalac - Comparisons

Reply #128 –
Quote from: Synthetic Soul on
Just a note to say that you can now view Josef's full comparison details here.

Excellent!

But a bit depressing: Yalac compares worse than on any other sample set i have seen!

I will speed up my work on the PreFilter implementation. Although it gives only about 0.15 to 0.20 percent better compression on my test corpus, i am confident because it were some sample files of joseph which have shown a advantage of several percent (!) with the prefilter turned on...

I hope to release the next version within the next days.

Yalac - Comparisons

Reply #129 –
Quote from: TBeck on
But a bit depressing: Yalac compares worse than on any other sample set i have seen!
Yes, I can see how you must be disappointed (even ashamed): only 5th fastest decoder:

Code: [Select]
Encoder Setting    Compressed    Decoding
=========================================
Shorten Default       66.238%     132.44x
DaxWav VQH            70.102%     124.80x
DaxWav VQS            69.568%     124.80x
DaxWav VQM            70.008%     119.33x
Yalac Fast            58.527%     114.06x
Flac - Garf -0        66.435%     102.81x

... but look at the compression (and who's 6th fastest)...

Well, if such high standards means you will look to squeezing even more MB out then who am I to correct you.
I'm on a horse.

Yalac - Comparisons

Reply #130 –
Quote from: Synthetic Soul on
Quote from: TBeck on
But a bit depressing: Yalac compares worse than on any other sample set i have seen!
Yes, I can see how you must be disappointed (even ashamed): only 5th fastest decoder:
...
... but look at the compression (and who's 6th fastest)...

Well, if such high standards means you will look to squeezing even more MB out then who am I to correct you.

You are right. No, i wasn't fishing for compliments... But they are welcome.

It's my point of view. In the many years of the development of yalac i never cared about FAST modes, i always compared HIGH modes. FAST is the result of the last months interaction with the hydrogen forum members.

And the comparison with LPAC and Mpeg4Als -7 is always most important for me, because they are using basically the same technology as yalac. It's ok to be a bit (up to 0.5 percent) worse, because i had to sacrifice some compression efficiency for the high decoding speed. But the difference is higher in Josefs comparison! That's what depresses me a bit. Ok, it's only one of many test sets, but it isn't ok.

For now i am pinning all my hope on the PreFilter (do you notice the dramatic?).

The four sample files Josef sent me earlier perform very well with the PreFilter:
Code: [Select]
Preset High            Prefilter
                       off       on
03_06_03.yaa           64.21 % - 62.24 %
B04_01.yaa             53.76 % - 49.62 %
B04_02.yaa             58.97 % - 54.11 %
C17_01.yaa             66.59 % - 63.16 %

                       60.59 % - 56.83 %


But i don't know, if josef's test set does contain more such Prefilter friendly files...

Yalac - Comparisons

Reply #131 –
Quote from: TBeck on
In the many years of the development of yalac i never cared about FAST modes, i always compared HIGH modes. FAST is the result of the last months interaction with the hydrogen forum members.
That must be quite strange for you.  I would probably use High if using Yalac, maybe Normal.  There isn't a huge variation in the compression rate, and all presets decode very fast.  I am happy to go with a relatively slow encode if it will save me a few MB, as I generally start the process going and leave the room.  I use WavPack -h as it has decent compression, decent speed, but also very much because of other aspects, like error tolerance, simple inline tagging, etc.

Quote from: TBeck on
And the comparison with LPAC and Mpeg4Als -7 is always most important for me, because they are using basically the same technology as yalac. It's ok to be a bit (up to 0.5 percent) worse, because i had to sacrifice some compression efficiency for the high decoding speed.
Ah, that is interesting to know.  I must admit I know little of MP4ALS and nothing of LPAC.  I will have to investigate further.

Quote from: TBeck on
The four sample files Josef sent me earlier perform very well with the PreFilter:
Wow.  I'm looking forward to checking that on my corpus.
I'm on a horse.

Yalac - Comparisons

Reply #132 –
Quote from: Synthetic Soul on
...
I use WavPack -h as it has decent compression, decent speed, but also very much because of other aspects, like error tolerance, simple inline tagging, etc.

V 0.08 (which is nearly done) will bring the PreFilter. If there are no problems with this new feature, then my work on V 0.09 will consist of clean ups of my source code and error tolerance.

Quote from: Synthetic Soul on
I must admit I know little of MP4ALS and nothing of LPAC.  I will have to investigate further.

Feel free to ask me. I would like to write some short text about the similarities, but you know, english is not a strength of mine. Maybe i will pause the development work on some point and write a german text. One friend of mine will translate it to english.

Quote from: Synthetic Soul on
Quote from: TBeck on
The four sample files Josef sent me earlier perform very well with the PreFilter:
Wow.  I'm looking forward to checking that on my corpus.

Don't forget: On my test corpus the PreFilter achieves only 0.15 to 0.20 percent improvement! Josef is always providing me with some very special files which are giving me much fun! I don't know, if you can find them on the free market...

BTW: I have the feeling, that i should make a plan for the next development steps of yalac and possibly post it with some other general info within some new YALAC Faq post... For me it's always advantegous to force myself to think about a better structure of my work. And Yalac surely has raised some expectations and people should know what will be going on. If i know it...

Yalac - Comparisons

Reply #133 –
I think YALAC developpement has reached another step which you might not have envisioned previously;  I am sure many other people follow YALAC development closely, and would be very willing to test it, which is why I suggest you consider testing on a larger scale.  That way, you could really see if your optimizations pay off and if you have the same general results everywhere.

Perhaps Synthetic soul could set up a small system on his site to receive feedback from testers, and distribute the executable.  If not, I might be able to piece something together, and I can surely help you with the hosting part.  I could even give you a ftp account password.

Consider all this well,
Tristan.

Yalac - Comparisons

Reply #134 –
Quote
' date='May 30 2006, 00:47' post='397364']
... which is why I suggest you consider testing on a larger scale.  That way, you could really see if your optimizations pay off and if you have the same general results everywhere.

Perhaps Synthetic soul could set up a small system on his site to receive feedback from testers, and distribute the executable.  If not, I might be able to piece something together, and I can surely help you with the hosting part.  I could even give you a ftp account password.

Many thanks, Tristan! It's quite probable that i will come back to your hosting offer!

But for the extended testing: I am not sure, if it is worth the effort, because more testers means far more results to be evaluated and far more communications and discussions, hence less time left for the development. And new testers wouldn't know about the development history and probably come up with old questions. And i wouldn't know much about their test sets. The active testers have tried the different versions on their test sets and the varying results (between versions) have shown me something about the characteristics of their files.

I know, that it isn't possible, but: If there were only one or two new testers who provided me with such valuable and detailed reports as Josef Pohm, i would spent my whole time on reading and analysing...

  Thomas

BTW: I hope that you will try the new version on your test set. If i remember it right, you are having some interesting music within your set, which other test sets are possibily missing...

Yalac - Comparisons

Reply #135 –
Quote from: TBeck on
V 0.08 (which is nearly done) will bring the PreFilter. If there are no problems with this new feature, then my work on V 0.09 will consist of clean ups of my source code and error tolerance.
Wow.  Sounds like we may be getting close to a beta release.

Quote from: TBeck on
BTW: I have the feeling, that i should make a plan for the next development steps of yalac and possibly post it with some other general info within some new YALAC Faq post... For me it's always advantegous to force myself to think about a better structure of my work. And Yalac surely has raised some expectations and people should know what will be going on. If i know it...
Sounds intriguing.  I love reading these things.  I used to love reading the diaries of games developers in computer magazines when I was a lad (Andrew Braybrook's Paradroid diary and Jeff Minter's Iridis Alpha (what a game!) diary spring to mind).

Quote from: Shade[ST on
Perhaps Synthetic soul could set up a small system on his site to receive feedback from testers, and distribute the executable.  If not, I might be able to piece something together, and I can surely help you with the hosting part.  I could even give you a ftp account password.
I'm sorry, but I cannot commit myself any further than I am at the moment (which is really more than I should, but I just can't stop it).  If Thomas thinks this would be useful, then please, take it on.
I'm on a horse.

Yalac - Comparisons

Reply #136 –
V0.08 is done

Changes:

Compression algorithms:

- New PreFilter option. Achieves on average 0.15 to 0.20 percent better compression on my test corpus, up to 4 percent on some special files.
- Extra lag option (introduced in V0.07) for the channel decorrelation removed.
- Channel decorrelation option FULL SEARCH removed.

Presets:

- HIGH now uses the new PreFilter. Expect a speed decrease of about 10 % for encoding. The effect on decoding performance should be minimal.
- EXTRA now uses the new PreFilter and the frame partition search level EXTRA (formerly known as insane). Extra lag option for the channel decorrelation removed. Should be about two times slower than HIGH.
- INSANE now uses the new PreFilter. Channel decorrelation option FULL SEARCH removed. Should be considerably faster now.

INSANE is only a temporary storage for methods, which are far too slow for the compression improvements they achieve. Instead of immediately removing them i keep them within INSANE because i may speed them up later or because i am unsure, if they can help other files more, and want to wait for more test results.

Josef Pohms test results show a significant compression advantage for partition search level EXTRA (formerly known as insane), therefore i deceided to move it into the standard presets. But for the channel decorrelation option FULL SEARCH it was time to say goodbye...

Command line:

- New test cases to evaluate the new PreFilter-option:

-c0 = Off
-c1 = Level Fast
-c2 = Level Normal

Other:

- Clean up of source code. Could give new errors...
- File format changed!

Release:

I hope to send the new version to the following testers within the next 24 hours:

Destroid
Josef Pohm
Shade[ST]
Synthetic Soul

Only reason for this selection: I haven't heard from the other testers within the last 10 days and i don't want to fill their mail box with new versions they possibly currently don't need.

Any of them can sent me an email anytime, and i will sent the current version.

What should be tested:

- Comparison with V0.08: Speed and compression performance of presets HIGH,  EXTRA and possibly INSANE.
- HIGH now uses the new PreFilter option with level FAST. You may try -c2 on HIGH, which activates level NORMAL, and check, if it makes any difference.
- A verification of the decoded files makes most sense for preset HIGH or EXTRA (simply choose a preset, which uses the new PreFilter).

Plans for V 0.09:

- Optimizations and corrections of the PreFilter, if neccessary.
- Error tolerance: Detect and skip damaged frames.

Possibly you will have to wait for V0.10 for more error tolerance. After removing the FULL SEARCH option of the channel decorrelation there are some new opportunities for speed improvements, which i may implement in V0.09. And i just have found some interactions of the PreFilter with other encoder methods which have to be evaluated. Maybe it hurts them a bit.

Yalac - Comparisons

Reply #137 –
Awesome!  Glad to hear that you're hard at work. 

I can't wait to try a beta version in the near future.  I guess you still need to add a few features, like seekability, streamability, tagging, et al, but it sounds like you've got a great algorithm for the most important aspects.  It's pretty impressive that you think you can still squeeze some more speed out of your codec too!

Keep it up Thomas!

Yalac - Comparisons

Reply #138 –
Hello, TBeck!

I'm wondering what the "PreFilter" actually does and how it is related to the other parts. Could you shed some light on it?

Sebi

Yalac - Comparisons

Reply #139 –
Quote from: Supacon on
...
It's pretty impressive that you think you can still squeeze some more speed out of your codec too!

Thanks!

But don't expect big speed improvements. Maybe 10 to 20 percent for the presets HIGH and EXTRA.

FAST could be speed up, if i would implement a specialized version of my codec. But this has not a high priority for me.

Yalac - Comparisons

Reply #140 –
Quote from: SebastianG on
I'm wondering what the "PreFilter" actually does and how it is related to the other parts. Could you shed some light on it?

Sorry, but i don't want to publish details at this point.

As i wrote earlier, i definitely want to benefit from my work in form of some reputation. One way may be the publication of one or two papers.

Some (not directed to you!) may find this a bit selfish or egocentric (earlier you have been a hero, if you published useful freeware, these days you are often a bad guy, if you do not immediately release the source code too...).

What could i reply?

I have been working on Yalac for more than 8 years, always in my free time. To give an estimate: This means about 1.5 years of full work (or of my life time)!

With this in mind, it seems not too easy to give all the work away for nothing...

Very important:

1) This is not directed to you! You only provided me the opportunity to clear some points, which tend to come up now and then.

2) I do not want to start an ideological or philosophical discussion about open source or intellectual property. If necessary, this should be done within a seperate thread. And given my limited english skills, it's very unlikely that i would participate.


What i can say:

Short description from Yalac's readme: "The prefilter cleans the signal a bit, before it is beeing sent to the linear predictor." In other words: It removes some disturbing aspects of the signal, which reduce the quality of the predictor coefficients and hence hurt the compression.

But to be honest: If there is one method within yalac, which i myself do not fully understand yet, then it is the PreFilter! Surely i had reasons to implement it and it works as expected, but sometimes far better than i would have predicted and i will have to evaluate why.

Possibly it compensates some disturbances of the signal which are beeing caused by the scaling needed for my reduced precision (14-Bit) arithmetic. If that's true, then the PreFilter would only be useful for my specific implementation and not for other compressors which are using full scale arithmetics.

  Thomas

Yalac - Comparisons

Reply #141 –
Output is disabled for all encoding settings;  SSE is enabled, and all files are transcoded from LAME 3.98a3 -V2 --vbr-new.  As such, this doesn't make for a _real-world_ test, but it's quite revelating nonetheless, on different settings, and the quality of the stereo decorellator (indeed better than LAME's)
If you want the bitrates of the original mp3s, I can have them for you.  I can also test with a few CD Audio files, if you like, but I doubt the results will be different.
Files are cached before reading
Code: [Select]
Default + prefilter
01. Giant Steps.yaa                                           57.45 % -  20.2 * -   14.220 sec
01. La Vie, L'amour.yaa                                       47.70 % -  21.3 * -    5.200 sec
01. Le vieux Léon.yaa                                         36.69 % -  22.8 * -    9.962 sec
02. Parallel Universe.yaa                                     71.40 % -  23.0 * -   11.740 sec
02. Sa jeunesse.yaa                                           36.48 % -  23.1 * -   12.362 sec
03. Memories of You.yaa                                       32.29 % -  23.3 * -    8.253 sec
04. Carl Orff - I. Primo vere - Omnia sol temperat.yaa        39.29 % -  20.3 * -    5.311 sec
04. Celle qui a dit non.yaa                                   65.00 % -  12.2 * -   23.318 sec
04. Comme Moi (Like Me).yaa                                   43.11 % -  14.5 * -   12.365 sec
05. Le chemin de la dompe (présentation).yaa                  43.90 % -  15.2 * -    4.182 sec
06. Frédéric.yaa                                              47.80 % -  17.3 * -   11.657 sec
11. Nil (Instrumental).yaa                                    20.22 % -  23.2 * -    5.905 sec
12. Sergei Sergeyevich Prokofiev - Dance of the knights.yaa   43.06 % -  22.4 * -   14.418 sec
15. Stroker Ace.yaa                                           54.57 % -  22.1 * -   12.201 sec
17. Carl Orff - III. Cour d'amours - Dies, nox et omnia.yaa   39.24 % -  23.2 * -    5.669 sec
20. Sleighride.yaa                                            56.57 % -  22.1 * -    8.094 sec

Compression:    47.88 %
Duration:      164.89 sec
Speed:          19.71 * real time

Default + no prefilter : 
01. Giant Steps.yaa                                           57.53 % -  24.2 * -   11.877 sec
01. La Vie, L'amour.yaa                                       47.54 % -  34.2 * -    3.236 sec
01. Le vieux Léon.yaa                                         36.61 % -  37.0 * -    6.134 sec
02. Parallel Universe.yaa                                     71.41 % -  36.6 * -    7.395 sec
02. Sa jeunesse.yaa                                           36.45 % -  36.6 * -    7.791 sec
03. Memories of You.yaa                                       32.23 % -  39.6 * -    4.855 sec
04. Carl Orff - I. Primo vere - Omnia sol temperat.yaa        39.25 % -  33.2 * -    3.252 sec
04. Celle qui a dit non.yaa                                   65.08 % -  29.3 * -    9.714 sec
04. Comme Moi (Like Me).yaa                                   43.00 % -  33.3 * -    5.392 sec
05. Le chemin de la dompe (présentation).yaa                  43.88 % -  33.0 * -    1.927 sec
06. Frédéric.yaa                                              47.78 % -  31.4 * -    6.443 sec
11. Nil (Instrumental).yaa                                    20.04 % -  41.0 * -    3.347 sec
12. Sergei Sergeyevich Prokofiev - Dance of the knights.yaa   43.07 % -  34.9 * -    9.234 sec
15. Stroker Ace.yaa                                           54.47 % -  32.5 * -    8.285 sec
17. Carl Orff - III. Cour d'amours - Dies, nox et omnia.yaa   39.21 % -  14.4 * -    9.118 sec
20. Sleighride.yaa                                            56.63 % -  18.2 * -    9.813 sec

Compression:    47.85 %
Duration:      107.83 sec
Speed:          30.14 * real time

Default + search level extra : 
01. Giant Steps.yaa                                           57.44 % -  14.0 * -   20.430 sec
01. La Vie, L'amour.yaa                                       47.48 % -  14.3 * -    7.735 sec
01. Le vieux Léon.yaa                                         36.56 % -  14.6 * -   15.500 sec
02. Parallel Universe.yaa                                     71.39 % -  11.0 * -   24.493 sec
02. Sa jeunesse.yaa                                           36.44 % -  12.0 * -   23.722 sec
03. Memories of You.yaa                                       32.18 % -  13.7 * -   14.090 sec
04. Carl Orff - I. Primo vere - Omnia sol temperat.yaa        39.24 % -  14.2 * -    7.623 sec
04. Celle qui a dit non.yaa                                   65.04 % -  11.3 * -   25.109 sec
04. Comme Moi (Like Me).yaa                                   42.99 % -  13.4 * -   13.403 sec
05. Le chemin de la dompe (présentation).yaa                  43.86 % -  13.0 * -    4.898 sec
06. Frédéric.yaa                                              47.77 % -  13.4 * -   15.114 sec
11. Nil (Instrumental).yaa                                    19.88 % -  14.0 * -    9.815 sec
12. Sergei Sergeyevich Prokofiev - Dance of the knights.yaa   43.05 % -  12.9 * -   25.004 sec
15. Stroker Ace.yaa                                           54.45 % -  13.5 * -   19.926 sec
17. Carl Orff - III. Cour d'amours - Dies, nox et omnia.yaa   39.20 % -  14.4 * -    9.105 sec
20. Sleighride.yaa                                            56.55 % -  10.9 * -   16.407 sec

Compression:    47.81 %
Duration:      252.39 sec
Speed:          12.88 * real time

Default + frame partition 32 : 
01. Giant Steps.yaa                                           57.59 % -  21.7 * -   13.203 sec
01. La Vie, L'amour.yaa                                       47.57 % -  26.7 * -    4.150 sec
01. Le vieux Léon.yaa                                         36.70 % -  36.6 * -    6.203 sec
02. Parallel Universe.yaa                                     71.48 % -  37.6 * -    7.192 sec
02. Sa jeunesse.yaa                                           36.46 % -  39.5 * -    7.227 sec
03. Memories of You.yaa                                       32.27 % -  41.8 * -    4.611 sec
04. Carl Orff - I. Primo vere - Omnia sol temperat.yaa        39.25 % -  38.3 * -    2.821 sec
04. Celle qui a dit non.yaa                                   65.16 % -  31.7 * -    8.968 sec
04. Comme Moi (Like Me).yaa                                   43.00 % -  34.5 * -    5.204 sec
05. Le chemin de la dompe (présentation).yaa                  43.94 % -  36.1 * -    1.765 sec
06. Frédéric.yaa                                              47.84 % -  35.7 * -    5.659 sec
11. Nil (Instrumental).yaa                                    20.04 % -  43.6 * -    3.145 sec
12. Sergei Sergeyevich Prokofiev - Dance of the knights.yaa   43.08 % -  38.2 * -    8.442 sec
15. Stroker Ace.yaa                                           54.60 % -  34.4 * -    7.825 sec
17. Carl Orff - III. Cour d'amours - Dies, nox et omnia.yaa   39.21 % -  39.4 * -    3.338 sec
20. Sleighride.yaa                                            56.67 % -  35.4 * -    5.052 sec

Compression:    47.90 %
Duration:       94.82 sec
Speed:          34.28 * real time


Default + 64 preds :
01. Giant Steps.yaa                                           57.79 % -  27.0 * -   10.625 sec
01. La Vie, L'amour.yaa                                       47.68 % -  41.2 * -    2.684 sec
01. Le vieux Léon.yaa                                         36.65 % -  45.1 * -    5.037 sec
02. Parallel Universe.yaa                                     71.42 % -  43.8 * -    6.171 sec
02. Sa jeunesse.yaa                                           36.58 % -  45.6 * -    6.261 sec
03. Memories of You.yaa                                       32.25 % -  47.8 * -    4.023 sec
04. Carl Orff - I. Primo vere - Omnia sol temperat.yaa        39.34 % -  42.1 * -    2.568 sec
04. Celle qui a dit non.yaa                                   65.11 % -  33.7 * -    8.446 sec
04. Comme Moi (Like Me).yaa                                   43.21 % -  35.5 * -    5.046 sec
05. Le chemin de la dompe (présentation).yaa                  43.89 % -  25.4 * -    2.507 sec
06. Frédéric.yaa                                              47.86 % -  29.4 * -    6.885 sec
11. Nil (Instrumental).yaa                                    19.96 % -  31.1 * -    4.405 sec
12. Sergei Sergeyevich Prokofiev - Dance of the knights.yaa   43.56 % -  37.1 * -    8.691 sec
15. Stroker Ace.yaa                                           54.49 % -  29.9 * -    9.002 sec
17. Carl Orff - III. Cour d'amours - Dies, nox et omnia.yaa   39.36 % -  36.7 * -    3.576 sec
20. Sleighride.yaa                                            56.89 % -  33.7 * -    5.310 sec

Compression:    47.99 %
Duration:       91.25 sec
Speed:          35.62 * real time

Fast : 
01. Giant Steps.yaa                                           57.98 % -  33.0 * -    8.691 sec
01. La Vie, L'amour.yaa                                       47.94 % -  63.4 * -    1.746 sec
01. Le vieux Léon.yaa                                         37.05 % -  78.2 * -    2.901 sec
02. Parallel Universe.yaa                                     71.55 % -  74.9 * -    3.614 sec
02. Sa jeunesse.yaa                                           37.19 % -  72.5 * -    3.940 sec
03. Memories of You.yaa                                       32.63 % -  80.5 * -    2.391 sec
04. Carl Orff - I. Primo vere - Omnia sol temperat.yaa        39.80 % -  71.9 * -    1.503 sec
04. Celle qui a dit non.yaa                                   65.26 % -  36.6 * -    7.766 sec
04. Comme Moi (Like Me).yaa                                   43.35 % -  49.4 * -    3.629 sec
05. Le chemin de la dompe (présentation).yaa                  44.07 % -  50.3 * -    1.265 sec
06. Frédéric.yaa                                              48.16 % -  65.1 * -    3.107 sec
11. Nil (Instrumental).yaa                                    20.58 % -  91.2 * -    1.504 sec
12. Sergei Sergeyevich Prokofiev - Dance of the knights.yaa   44.06 % -  76.7 * -    4.204 sec
15. Stroker Ace.yaa                                           54.67 % -  58.7 * -    4.590 sec
17. Carl Orff - III. Cour d'amours - Dies, nox et omnia.yaa   39.64 % -  85.3 * -    1.541 sec
20. Sleighride.yaa                                            57.32 % -  51.7 * -    3.466 sec

Compression:    48.31 %
Duration:       55.87 sec
Speed:          58.18 * real time

Fast + 16 preds : 
01. Giant Steps.yaa                                           58.14 % -  31.8 * -    9.012 sec
01. La Vie, L'amour.yaa                                       48.36 % -  79.3 * -    1.395 sec
01. Le vieux Léon.yaa                                         37.22 % -  97.1 * -    2.337 sec
02. Parallel Universe.yaa                                     71.71 % -  77.1 * -    3.509 sec
02. Sa jeunesse.yaa                                           37.38 % -  99.6 * -    2.868 sec
03. Memories of You.yaa                                       32.76 % - 106.2 * -    1.812 sec
04. Carl Orff - I. Primo vere - Omnia sol temperat.yaa        40.01 % -  73.7 * -    1.465 sec
04. Celle qui a dit non.yaa                                   65.50 % -  41.1 * -    6.919 sec
04. Comme Moi (Like Me).yaa                                   43.59 % -  71.8 * -    2.497 sec
05. Le chemin de la dompe (présentation).yaa                  44.38 % -  53.1 * -    1.199 sec
06. Frédéric.yaa                                              48.39 % -  61.8 * -    3.271 sec
11. Nil (Instrumental).yaa                                    20.62 % -  95.0 * -    1.443 sec
12. Sergei Sergeyevich Prokofiev - Dance of the knights.yaa   44.23 % -  82.6 * -    3.905 sec
15. Stroker Ace.yaa                                           54.76 % -  52.1 * -    5.171 sec
17. Carl Orff - III. Cour d'amours - Dies, nox et omnia.yaa   39.78 % -  93.1 * -    1.412 sec
20. Sleighride.yaa                                            57.76 % -  70.5 * -    2.539 sec

Compression:    48.50 %
Duration:       50.77 sec
Speed:          64.02 * real time

Fast + 16 preds + partition 32 : 
01. Giant Steps.yaa                                           58.20 % -  32.4 * -    8.860 sec
01. La Vie, L'amour.yaa                                       48.40 % -  71.2 * -    1.554 sec
01. Le vieux Léon.yaa                                         37.31 % -  94.5 * -    2.401 sec
02. Parallel Universe.yaa                                     71.80 % -  85.5 * -    3.166 sec
02. Sa jeunesse.yaa                                           37.38 % -  72.6 * -    3.931 sec
03. Memories of You.yaa                                       32.78 % - 104.5 * -    1.842 sec
04. Carl Orff - I. Primo vere - Omnia sol temperat.yaa        40.01 % -  84.4 * -    1.280 sec
04. Celle qui a dit non.yaa                                   65.59 % -  46.2 * -    6.163 sec
04. Comme Moi (Like Me).yaa                                   43.59 % -  74.6 * -    2.405 sec
05. Le chemin de la dompe (présentation).yaa                  44.44 % -  61.6 * -    1.033 sec
06. Frédéric.yaa                                              48.45 % -  63.5 * -    3.185 sec
11. Nil (Instrumental).yaa                                    20.62 % - 105.8 * -    1.297 sec
12. Sergei Sergeyevich Prokofiev - Dance of the knights.yaa   44.23 % -  71.6 * -    4.505 sec
15. Stroker Ace.yaa                                           54.86 % -  59.7 * -    4.516 sec
17. Carl Orff - III. Cour d'amours - Dies, nox et omnia.yaa   39.78 % -  97.7 * -    1.345 sec
20. Sleighride.yaa                                            57.79 % -  75.5 * -    2.372 sec

Compression:    48.55 %
Duration:       49.87 sec
Speed:          65.18 * real time

Insane : 
01. Giant Steps.yaa                                           56.91 % -   4.4 * -   65.189 sec
01. La Vie, L'amour.yaa                                       47.30 % -   4.5 * -   24.585 sec
01. Le vieux Léon.yaa                                         36.27 % -   4.6 * -   49.639 sec
02. Parallel Universe.yaa                                     71.14 % -   4.6 * -   58.226 sec
02. Sa jeunesse.yaa                                           36.29 % -   4.4 * -   64.992 sec
03. Memories of You.yaa                                       32.06 % -   4.6 * -   41.468 sec
04. Carl Orff - I. Primo vere - Omnia sol temperat.yaa        39.14 % -   4.5 * -   23.817 sec
04. Celle qui a dit non.yaa                                   64.66 % -   4.5 * -   63.896 sec
04. Comme Moi (Like Me).yaa                                   42.84 % -   4.3 * -   41.489 sec
05. Le chemin de la dompe (présentation).yaa                  43.64 % -   4.6 * -   13.877 sec
06. Frédéric.yaa                                              47.47 % -   4.4 * -   45.504 sec
11. Nil (Instrumental).yaa                                    19.99 % -   4.4 * -   31.310 sec
12. Sergei Sergeyevich Prokofiev - Dance of the knights.yaa   42.64 % -   4.2 * -   76.918 sec
15. Stroker Ace.yaa                                           54.26 % -   4.7 * -   57.914 sec
17. Carl Orff - III. Cour d'amours - Dies, nox et omnia.yaa   39.03 % -   4.4 * -   29.740 sec
20. Sleighride.yaa                                            56.17 % -   4.2 * -   42.857 sec

Compression:    47.55 %
Duration:      731.44 sec
Speed:           4.44 * real time

Yalac - Comparisons

Reply #142 –
Quote
' date='May 31 2006, 04:44' post='397815']
Default + prefilter

Compression:    47.88 %
Duration:      164.89 sec
Speed:          19.71 * real time

Default + no prefilter :

Compression:    47.85 %
Duration:      107.83 sec
Speed:          30.14 * real time


Wow, you are really fast! Many thanks!

Even if you are not providing good news: The prefilter hurts!

Sorry, it will take some time to evaluate the other results. It's a bit too late here...

Could you please try preset EXTRA with PreFilter on/off? No need to hurry...

  Thomas

Yalac - Comparisons

Reply #143 –
Quote
' date='May 31 2006, 04:44' post='397815']
Output is disabled for all encoding settings;  SSE is enabled, and all files are transcoded from LAME 3.98a3 -V2 --vbr-new.  As such, this doesn't make for a _real-world_ test, but it's quite revelating nonetheless, on different settings, and the quality of the stereo decorellator (indeed better than LAME's)
...

Ok, had to take a closer look at it. Maybe more handy this way:
Code: [Select]
                    FAST    NORMAL
                            Prefilter
                            Off     On      SL Extr PR 32   64 P    
-------------------------------------------------------------------
01. Giant Steps.y    57.98   57.53   57.45   57.44   57.59   57.79  
01. La Vie, L'amo    47.94   47.54   47.70   47.48   47.57   47.68  
01. Le vieux Léon    37.05   36.61   36.69   36.56   36.70   36.65  
02. Parallel Univ    71.55   71.41   71.40   71.39   71.48   71.42  
02. Sa jeunesse.y    37.19   36.45   36.48   36.44   36.46   36.58  
03. Memories of Y    32.63   32.23   32.29   32.18   32.27   32.25  
04. Carl Orff - I    39.80   39.25   39.29   39.24   39.25   39.34  
04. Celle qui a d    65.26   65.08   65.00   65.04   65.16   65.11  
04. Comme Moi (Li    43.35   43.00   43.11   42.99   43.00   43.21  
05. Le chemin de     44.07   43.88   43.90   43.86   43.94   43.89  
06. Frédéric.yaa     48.16   47.78   47.80   47.77   47.84   47.86  
11. Nil (Instrume    20.58   20.04   20.22   19.88   20.04   19.96  
12. Sergei Sergey    44.06   43.07   43.06   43.05   43.08   43.56  
15. Stroker Ace.y    54.67   54.47   54.57   54.45   54.60   54.49  
17. Carl Orff - I    39.64   39.21   39.24   39.20   39.21   39.36  
20. Sleighride.ya    57.32   56.63   56.57   56.55   56.67   56.89  
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Sum:                 48.31   47.85   47.88   47.81   47.90   47.99  
EncoRate:            58.18   30.14   19.71   12.88   34.28   35.62  
-------------------------------------------------------------------

SL Extr = Frame partition search level Extra
PR 32   = Frame partition resolution 32
64 P    = 64 Predictors


First thoughts:

- The PreFilter hurts here.
- There is no big difference when using only 64 instead of the (default) 128 predictors. Possibly the PreFilter only helps files which are benefiting from higher predictor orders.
- The other variations are not really significant. The reduction of the frame partition resolution doesn't make the preset considerably faster and often the compression advantage of the higher default resolution is bigger than the 0.05 percent here. No urgent reason to change the default resolution.
- The variations (not in this table) of the FAST preset don't give a considerable speed up.

Addendum:

I nearly forgot about my previous post:

"Possibly it compensates some disturbances of the signal which are beeing caused by the scaling needed for my reduced precision (14-Bit) arithmetic. If that's true, then the PreFilter would only be useful for my specific implementation and not for other compressors which are using full scale arithmetics."

If this hypothesis is true, then files with high levels should benefit the most from the PreFilter.

Yalac - Comparisons

Reply #144 –
Quote
' date='May 31 2006, 04:44' post='397815']
Output is disabled for all encoding settings;  SSE is enabled, and all files are transcoded from LAME 3.98a3 -V2 --vbr-new.  As such, this doesn't make for a _real-world_ test, but it's quite revelating nonetheless, on different settings, and the quality of the stereo decorellator (indeed better than LAME's)

Which PreFilter level did you use, Fast or Normal? Could you please try the other one too?

Yalac - Comparisons

Reply #145 –
Prefilter was at normal.  I'll be posting the Extra / Prefilter soon.

Are fast and normal two completely different algorithms?

Also, maybe the prefilter doesn't always hurt, but in this case mp3 artifacts (which YALAC doesn't expect) make it so...

Peace,
Tristan.

Yalac - Comparisons

Reply #146 –
Quote
' date='May 31 2006, 12:56' post='397899']
Are fast and normal two completely different algorithms?

Also, maybe the prefilter doesn't always hurt, but in this case mp3 artifacts (which YALAC doesn't expect) make it so...

No, Normal only performs a more elaborated check, if the PreFilter would hurt (theoretically...). But both checks are very limited, because i didn't want to slow down encoding.

But...

I did ask Joseph Pohm for a quick check on his sample sets...

...and...

it seems as if there will be a need for some very nice modifications of his comparison!

Yalac - Comparisons

Reply #147 –
Quote from: TBeck on
I did ask Joseph Pohm for a quick check on his sample sets and it seems as if there will be a need for some very nice modifications of his comparison!


I'll do it very gladly. Here you have my first impression on Yalac v0.08 new feature, PreFilter. Preliminary results, only High mode tested, only compression ratio tested, there are no speed results here. I usually test Yalac on 4 sample set.

Code: [Select]
Set A - Primary Sample Set

Yalac v0.08      Preset High - PreFilter Off   57,69%
LPAC v1.40       ExtraHigh                     57,32%
Monkey v4.01     High                          57,31%
MP4ALS Garf      -a -o32                       57,25%
OptimFrog 4.520b Normal                        57,04%
Yalac v0.08      Preset High - PreFilter On    56,46%

Improvement 2,10%, Yalac surpasses all four competitors.

Code: [Select]
Set B - BackUp Sample Set

Yalac v0.08      Preset High - PreFilter Off   54,69%
Monkey v4.01     High                          54,00%
LPAC v1.40       ExtraHigh                     53,94%
OptimFrog 4.520b Normal                        53,73%
MP4ALS Garf      -a -o32                       53,54%
Yalac v0.08      Preset High - PreFilter On    52,78%

Improvement 3,49%, Yalac surpasses all four competitors.

Code: [Select]
Set C - Yalac-Unfriendly Sample Set

Yalac v0.08      Preset High - PreFilter Off   62,53%
OptimFrog 4.520b Normal                        61,78%
Monkey v4.01     High                          61,67%
LPAC v1.40       ExtraHigh                     60,68%
MP4ALS Garf      -a -o32                       60,46%
Yalac v0.08      Preset High - PreFilter On    60,43%

Improvement 3,35%, Yalac surpasses all four competitors. I'll have to change Sample Set nickname...

Code: [Select]
Set D - Yalac-Friendly Sample Set

MP4ALS Garf      -a -o32                       64,40%
LPAC v1.40       ExtraHigh                     64,32%
Monkey v4.01     High                          63,99%
Yalac v0.08      Preset High - PreFilter Off   63,81%
OptimFrog 4.520b Normal                        63,53%
Yalac v0.08      Preset High - PreFilter On    63,00%


Improvement 1,27%. With PreFilter Off Yalac is already better than three competitors out of four. With PreFilter On Yalac surpasses the fourth one as well, and gets very near to OptimFrog High (62,82%).

As a general rule, on all my four sample set, Yalac High compression ratio is now able to stand right between Monkey High and ExtraHigh, as well as between OptimFrog Normal and High. As Thomas pointed out, I can give a positive feedback (actually it's not really me, numbers speak for themselves).

Yalac - Comparisons

Reply #148 –
Extra + Prefilter :
Code: [Select]
01. Giant Steps.yaa                                           56.95 % -   6.2 * -   46.555 sec
01. La Vie, L'amour.yaa                                       47.33 % -   6.5 * -   16.996 sec
01. Le vieux Léon.yaa                                         36.33 % -   6.7 * -   33.727 sec
02. Parallel Universe.yaa                                     71.18 % -   6.8 * -   39.617 sec
02. Sa jeunesse.yaa                                           36.30 % -   6.5 * -   44.245 sec
03. Memories of You.yaa                                       32.08 % -   6.9 * -   27.761 sec
04. Carl Orff - I. Primo vere - Omnia sol temperat.yaa        39.15 % -   6.6 * -   16.280 sec
04. Celle qui a dit non.yaa                                   64.70 % -   6.5 * -   43.630 sec
04. Comme Moi (Like Me).yaa                                   42.86 % -   6.3 * -   28.539 sec
05. Le chemin de la dompe (présentation).yaa                  43.67 % -   6.8 * -    9.327 sec
06. Frédéric.yaa                                              47.50 % -   6.5 * -   31.049 sec
11. Nil (Instrumental).yaa                                    20.02 % -   6.5 * -   20.986 sec
12. Sergei Sergeyevich Prokofiev - Dance of the knights.yaa   42.66 % -   5.6 * -   57.195 sec
15. Stroker Ace.yaa                                           54.30 % -   6.4 * -   42.013 sec
17. Carl Orff - III. Cour d'amours - Dies, nox et omnia.yaa   39.04 % -   6.2 * -   21.053 sec
20. Sleighride.yaa                                            56.20 % -   5.9 * -   30.155 sec

Compression:    47.58 %
Duration:      509.14 sec
Speed:           6.38 * real time
Extra :
Code: [Select]
01. Giant Steps.yaa                                           57.18 % -   6.3 * -   45.765 sec
01. La Vie, L'amour.yaa                                       47.40 % -   7.1 * -   15.553 sec
01. Le vieux Léon.yaa                                         36.36 % -   7.4 * -   30.858 sec
02. Parallel Universe.yaa                                     71.22 % -   7.8 * -   34.675 sec
02. Sa jeunesse.yaa                                           36.31 % -   7.2 * -   39.927 sec
03. Memories of You.yaa                                       32.08 % -   7.8 * -   24.630 sec
04. Carl Orff - I. Primo vere - Omnia sol temperat.yaa        39.11 % -   7.5 * -   14.454 sec
04. Celle qui a dit non.yaa                                   64.80 % -   7.4 * -   38.459 sec
04. Comme Moi (Like Me).yaa                                   42.86 % -   7.0 * -   25.534 sec
05. Le chemin de la dompe (présentation).yaa                  43.67 % -   7.6 * -    8.404 sec
06. Frédéric.yaa                                              47.62 % -   7.3 * -   27.794 sec
11. Nil (Instrumental).yaa                                    19.77 % -   7.4 * -   18.589 sec
12. Sergei Sergeyevich Prokofiev - Dance of the knights.yaa   42.82 % -   6.9 * -   47.060 sec
15. Stroker Ace.yaa                                           54.30 % -   7.6 * -   35.319 sec
17. Carl Orff - III. Cour d'amours - Dies, nox et omnia.yaa   39.03 % -   6.6 * -   19.822 sec
20. Sleighride.yaa                                            56.30 % -   6.8 * -   26.276 sec

Compression:    47.64 %
Duration:      453.14 sec
Speed:           7.17 * real time
 

Yalac - Comparisons

Reply #149 –
Thomas,

I will run the usual tests at home as always; however, as always, these will take me a few days to complete.

In the meantime I have been running a test here at work on the corpus I used for the FLAC testing I performed (28 files, with a better compression spread than my 50 file corpus I use for my Yalac testing).  I can't provide timings, as I have been running the test in low priority.  I need some CPU cycles to at least make it look like I'm working...

Anyway, here are the compression results:

Code: [Select]
Setting    Compressed
=====================
Fast          58.653%
Normal        58.078%
High -c0      57.891%
High          57.638%
High -c2      57.631%
Extra -c0     57.848%
Extra -c1     57.590%
Extra         57.587%
Insane -c0    57.806%
Insane -c1    57.548%
Insane        57.545%

The spreadsheet, which also details the files in the corpus, can be found here.  If a file in the corpus is of particular interest it may be worth looking at the overall results of my FLAC test to gain a further insight.

As soon as I have the full results for my corpus/PC at home I'll upload them, but that is likely to be tonight or sometime Friday.

I just thought I may as well make some use of this PC, even if it is only to provide compression values.
I'm on a horse.