A bitrate table in Excel format (zipped).
[attachment=6581:Bitrates...test.xls.zip]
The related post: http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....st&p=762128 (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=89208&view=findpost&p=762128)
For the same topic.
Another bitrate table.
EDIT: Uploaded updated table
At 96kpbs - 100kbps Nero, FhG and QT has trouble with this sample.
Dream Theater track "These Walls" from the album Octavarium, sample range is 2:34 - 3:04.
Nero -q 0.345 - The cymbal stereo imaging gets messy, not too difficult to ABX with headphones:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v290/korben_dallas/abx_nero.jpg)
High frequency and total detalization loss for all AAC encoders under test (except FhG - it gives very high bitrate, so there is a little High Frequencies lost).
(http://audiophilesoft.ru/misc/suite1.png)
A yet another sharp transient problem sample.
However this sample gives each encoder it's characteristics. For example Nero does terrible with the low freq transients while sounding fine with the high freq one; Quick Time does ok with the low freq transients, but tremolo disortion appears during or after the high freq transients appear.
The previous posts show why samples had to be chosen long time before even thinking of the listening test organization.
I hope that at least some random process for choosing final samples will be involved. For example using some public lottery as I suggested long time ago:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=64991 (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=64991)
It's interesting idea.
A simple solution will be online dice-roller.
http://rolz.org/?p=group# (http://rolz.org/?p=group#)
/mnt and Steve Forte Rio probably could make a list with 100-200 samples. Then we all (interested in this test) will enter into chat with dice-roler function and will start to roll the dice.
What do you think?
Seems very good to me. Hell, I like it.
The previous posts show why samples had to be chosen long time before even thinking of the listening test organization.
How many samples at minimum do we think the test will need?
20
20 samples is quite a lot depending on the quality of the encoders.
There were 30 samples in previous test. Large number of samples helps to get more statistically valid results.
It was a good decision (not a coincidence).
The only price to pay is some extra time for recollecting the samples.
So, there will be 20 samples in this test.
As of random choice of samples.
/mnt and Steve Forte Rio will prepare the list with large number of samples (from previous tests, upload section, samples of other members etc..) and the random choice will be performed online here http://rolz.org/?p=group# (http://rolz.org/?p=group#)
We will define the time of this event shortly.
All members and developers can participate.
People, please, submit your samples (untill tuesday).Also it will be better to indicate the interval.
For example the sample can have 30 seconds of the lenght but more interesting part is between 14-22 seconds.
Well, here is some samples from my collection. Most of them causes pre-echo, the last sample is for stereo image testing (better listen through the loudspeakers).
tiesto-athena.flac (http://audiophilesoft.ru/misc/killer-samples/tiesto-athena.flac) (13-28s)
tiesto-do_you_feel_me.flac (http://audiophilesoft.ru/misc/killer-samples/tiesto-do_you_feel_me.flac) (1-21s)
tydi-meet_me_in_kyoto.flac (http://audiophilesoft.ru/misc/killer-samples/tydi-meet_me_in_kyoto.flac) (first 15s)
(genre: electronica)
above_and_beyond-on_a_good_day.flac (http://audiophilesoft.ru/misc/killer-samples/above_and_beyond-on_a_good_day.flac) (first 15s)
(genre: electronica/vocal trance)
And more:
Sound Expert nine samples (http://soundexpert.org/sound-samples):
bachjs.flac (http://audiophilesoft.ru/misc/killer-samples/se/bachjs.flac)
bass.flac (http://audiophilesoft.ru/misc/killer-samples/se/bass.flac)
castanets.flac (http://audiophilesoft.ru/misc/killer-samples/se/castanets.flac)
frmalspeech.flac (http://audiophilesoft.ru/misc/killer-samples/se/frmalspeech.flac)
glockenspiel.flac (http://audiophilesoft.ru/misc/killer-samples/se/glockenspiel.flac)
harpsichord.flac (http://audiophilesoft.ru/misc/killer-samples/se/harpsichord.flac)
lofi.flac (http://audiophilesoft.ru/misc/killer-samples/se/lofi.flac)
moldfield.flac (http://audiophilesoft.ru/misc/killer-samples/se/moldfield.flac)
quartet.flac (http://audiophilesoft.ru/misc/killer-samples/se/quartet.flac)
Great, SFR.
It will be random choice so it's ok to include a pile of samples from
http://rarewares.org/test_samples/ (http://rarewares.org/test_samples/)
http://ff123.net/samples.html (http://ff123.net/samples.html)
Roberto's and Sebastian's tests http://listeningtests.t35.com/ (http://listeningtests.t35.com/)
http://membres.multimania.fr/guruboolez/AUDIO/ (http://membres.multimania.fr/guruboolez/AUDIO/)
Upload section http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showforum=35 (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showforum=35)
http://www.mp3-tech.org/tests/aac_48/samples/ (http://www.mp3-tech.org/tests/aac_48/samples/)
The quality of ffmpeg @128kbps isn't low enough, IMHO.
What settings do you use?
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....st&p=761300 (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=89208&view=findpost&p=761300)
ffmpeg -i file -acodec aac -ab 128k -strict experimental file.m4a
if it will be necesarry we can lower the bitrate to 96 kbps if the quality will be too high for low anchor.
This time low anchor shouldn't be that bad as in previous test. (I've tried ffmpeg's AAC 128 kbps on several samples and it was very bad)
These 2 samples (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=70598&view=findpost&p=762019) don't do too well with AAC at low bitrates.
Does anyone have a list and links to the samples that was used on the recent 64kbps listening test?
Another one sample from my music library. Causes high freq losses and signal correlated noise in some cases.
Aria_Finch_han_dal_vino.flac (http://audiophilesoft.ru/misc/killer-samples/96/Aria_Finch_han_dal_vino.flac)
(Symphonic orchestra + male vocal)
2lvqclTry to encode this sample with ffmpeg (parameters given above) and you will hear that it's encoding quality is low enough
It will be random choice so it's ok to include a pile of samples from
http://rarewares.org/test_samples/ (http://rarewares.org/test_samples/)
http://ff123.net/samples.html (http://ff123.net/samples.html)
Roberto's and Sebastian's tests http://listeningtests.t35.com/ (http://listeningtests.t35.com/)
http://membres.multimania.fr/guruboolez/AUDIO/ (http://membres.multimania.fr/guruboolez/AUDIO/)
Upload section http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showforum=35 (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showforum=35)
http://www.mp3-tech.org/tests/aac_48/samples/ (http://www.mp3-tech.org/tests/aac_48/samples/)
Thank you! I'm going to post a large list of samples from this locations tomorrow (hopefully, I'll get the direct links). In order to have them all at one place, here
Does anyone have a list and links to the samples that was used on the recent 64kbps listening test?
First 15 samples of them are from previous public test (2007)
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....st&p=749072 (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=87785&view=findpost&p=749072)
http://listening-tests.hydrogenaudio.org/i...all_samples.zip (http://listening-tests.hydrogenaudio.org/igorc/all_samples.zip)
1.poets of the fall
2. bachpsichord
3.spmg54_1 (german speech)
4. tomsdiner
5. kraftwerk
6.macabre
7. bibilolo
8.Stravinskii Capriccio
9. fly_to_fly
10. fatboy
11. les voleurs
12. eig
13. enter sandman
14. big yellow
15. davinci
16. Castanets
17. Linchpin
18. waiting
19. Bittersweet
20. Dimmu borgir orchestra
21. bleed
22. Sangue de bairro
23. Against
24. stars
25. worlds apart
26. take your finger frin my head
27. i want to break free
28. atrain
29. bonhemian rhapsody
30. on the roof with Quasimodo
If the samples from the last test were mentioned then it's actually fair to include these samples (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=77584&view=findpost&p=695576) as well.
Anyway it will be a random choice on a big amount of samples.
It shouldn't be an issue IMO.
Anyway it will be a random choice on a big amount of samples.
Purely random? What if the majority of the samples end up being marimbas and guys yodeling in the shower?
I suggest categories of samples, with random selection from each category.
I suggest categories of samples, with random selection from each category.
Well, it's up to /mnt and Steve Forte Rio. They will control the random selection of the samples. Maybe if they are kind to do some extra work it will be great.
Hm... What categories do you mean? By genres or maybe by the type of artefacts?
I've just started to fill the table with sample names, URL's, genres (only for samples posted here) and comments (if exist). Anyway, I think it will take very long time to verify every sample (of more than 200 items) and determine the genre or artefacst type for each of them.
What do you think, /mnt? Also, does anyone have some suggestions?
What if the majority of the samples end up being marimbas and guys yodeling in the shower?
There won't be such samples at all.
The big list will contain a lot of samples with different kind of possible artifacts (temporal, frequency, stereo and other distortions) .
Probability will work by itself. I'm pretty sure we will have the same results with/without classifying by artifacts.
I suggest categories of samples, with random selection from each category.
Every suggestion has a down side.
It will be very difficult to classify artifacts. Somebody hears some temporal distortion other hears stereo issues. The artifacts are rarely have a single nature.
We will have days and days of hot discussions and probably will end with the same situation as purely random choice.
Everybody is welcome to online random selection of the samples. Here http://rolz.org/?p=group# (http://rolz.org/?p=group#)
This Wednesday at 12:00 (GMT - 3)
There were 30 samples in previous test. Large number of samples helps to get more statistically valid results.
It was a good decision (not a coincidence).
The only price to pay is some extra time for recollecting the samples.
So, there will be 20 samples in this test.
But it was a lower bitrate test. The higher the bitrate, the more difficult it is to spot differences and then people might lose interest if there are a lot of samples. Anyways, your decision.
Every suggestion has a down side.
It will be very difficult to classify artifacts. Somebody hears some temporal distortion other hears stereo issues. The artifacts are rarely have a single nature.
We will have days and days of hot discussions and probably will end with the same situation as purely random choice.
I was thinking more along the lines of genre or type: music, spoken word, sample, effect, etc.
I don't think it would take that long to classify.. listen to a few seconds of each sample. Besides, shouldn't someone be checking every sample anyways? To ensure it is a valid file and not corrupted or some joke.
There were 30 samples in previous test. Large number of samples helps to get more statistically valid results.
So, there will be 20 samples in this test.
But it was a lower bitrate test. The higher the bitrate, the more difficult it is to spot differences and then people might lose interest if there are a lot of samples. Anyways, your decision.
I understand your fears. Some people told me it was insane to include 30 samples.
But a lot of listeners have participated in last test and there were a lot of results.
Yes, it was 64 kbits and 30 samples.
It's not about being child but 20 samples are still affordable at 96 kbps. Encoders are good but artifacts are still easy distinguishable.
So, twenty, Sebastian, twenty.
To ensure it is a valid file and not corrupted or some joke.
Have you seen any corrupted, invalid or some joke files in previous public tests?
To ensure it is a valid file and not corrupted or some joke.
Have you seen any corrupted, invalid or some joke files in previous public tests?
A standard disclaimer in financial investments is that “past results do not guarantee future returns.”
2 samples from Muse - Absolution:
1. [attachment=6597:Apocalypse.flac] 10 last seconds of "Intro", then 17 seconds of "Apocalypse Please"
2. [attachment=6598:Hysteria.flac] 10 last seconds of "Interlude", then 20 seconds of "Hysteria"
I was thinking more along the lines of genre or type: music, spoken word, sample, effect, etc.
Yes, it will be sorted by musical genres, speech etc.
2 samples from Muse - Absolution:
1. [attachment=6597:Apocalypse.flac] 10 last seconds of "Intro", then 17 seconds of "Apocalypse Please"
2. Hysteria.flac: 10 last seconds of "Interlude", then 17 seconds of "Hysteria" {sorry, will be uploaded later}
Good samples, anyway they are almost the same isn't? Stereo effect, syntetised guitar, piano.
Electronic music samples from my archive for testing high frequency fidelity. Apparently the encoders in this test use a low pass frequency of about 15 kHz. These samples have distinct high frequency content from about 13 kHz up to 20 kHz.
Some of the samples are also otherwise difficult (in addition to the more or less audible lowpass). I tested quickly Nero and Winamp/FhG (I didn't have time to configure and test the QuickTime encoder on this PC now). For example, Wild And Blue 1 is very difficult for Nero. FhG is better with this sample. On the other hand Go Jam And Spoon Mix is quite a killer to FhG. Nero handles it better.
Go Jam And Spoon Mix
(http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff132/alexb2k/HA/gojasm.jpg)
[attachment=6599:Go_Jam_A...poon_Mix.flac]
Return Of The Tempel
(http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff132/alexb2k/HA/roft.jpg)
[attachment=6600:Return_O...e_Tempel.flac]
Wild And Blue 1
(http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff132/alexb2k/HA/wab1.jpg)
[attachment=6601:Wild_And_Blue_1.flac]
Wild And Blue 2
(http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff132/alexb2k/HA/wab2.jpg)
[attachment=6602:Wild_And_Blue_2.flac]
It also important to have a mixed class of samples (voice + music)
Example:
Sample from Kraftwerk's Radio-Activity.
Creates pre-echo and tonality problems at low bitrates.
-- Please delete --
I remind that random selection of sample will be perfomed in less than 12 hours. (12:00 GMT -3) here http://rolz.org/?p=group# (http://rolz.org/?p=group#) in looby room
I remind that random selection of sample will be perfomed in less than 12 hours. (12:00 GMT -3) here http://rolz.org/?p=group# (http://rolz.org/?p=group#) in looby room
Sorry, but did you mean
lobby?
Yes, my mistake.
And it will start in 10 minutes.
Here is the final table of samples sorted by musical genre.
After the random selection this table (with selected samples marked) will by also uploaded to this thread.
Here is the result of random selection.
The samples will be uploaded here within ~1 hour.
Unfortunately for now I have some connection problems. Hopefully the samples will be uploaded today by /mnt.
Is it necessary to upload them? The links are in the Excel file and they seem to work (I already donwloaded all files). To make downloading easier I copied the links from the Excel file:
Mahler http://www.rarewares.org/test_samples/Mahler.wv (http://www.rarewares.org/test_samples/Mahler.wv)
fugue_premikres_notes http://audiophilesoft.ru/misc/killer-sampl...kres_notes.flac (http://audiophilesoft.ru/misc/killer-samples/96/fugue_premikres_notes.flac)
Convulaion http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....ost&id=5079 (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=5079)
Berlin Drug http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....ost&id=5666 (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=5666)
skinny2a http://ff123.net/samples/skinny2a.flac (http://ff123.net/samples/skinny2a.flac)
tomsdiner http://audiophilesoft.ru/misc/killer-sampl.../tomsdiner.flac (http://audiophilesoft.ru/misc/killer-samples/64/tomsdiner.flac)
Blackwater http://www.rarewares.org/test_samples/Blackwater.wv (http://www.rarewares.org/test_samples/Blackwater.wv)
1.flac http://ff123.net/samples/1.flac (http://ff123.net/samples/1.flac)
on_the_roof_with_Quasimodo http://audiophilesoft.ru/misc/killer-sampl..._Quasimodo.flac (http://audiophilesoft.ru/misc/killer-samples/64/on_the_roof_with_Quasimodo.flac)
castanets http://audiophilesoft.ru/misc/killer-sampl.../castanets.flac (http://audiophilesoft.ru/misc/killer-samples/se/castanets.flac)
Enchantment http://ff123.net/samples/Enchantment.flac (http://ff123.net/samples/Enchantment.flac)
ATrain http://www.rarewares.org/test_samples/ATrain.wv (http://www.rarewares.org/test_samples/ATrain.wv)
trumpet http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/2681777/Problem...es/trumpet.flac (http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/2681777/ProblemSamples/trumpet.flac)
Jazz http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....ost&id=1873 (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=1873)
male_speech http://www.rarewares.org/test_samples/male_speech.wv (http://www.rarewares.org/test_samples/male_speech.wv)
dogies http://ff123.net/128test/dogies.flac (http://ff123.net/128test/dogies.flac)
experiencia http://www.rarewares.org/test_samples/experiencia.wv (http://www.rarewares.org/test_samples/experiencia.wv)
Jerkin Back 'n Forth http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....ost&id=6585 (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=6585)
i_want_to_break_free http://audiophilesoft.ru/misc/killer-sampl...break_free.flac (http://audiophilesoft.ru/misc/killer-samples/64/i_want_to_break_free.flac)
EnolaGay http://www.rarewares.org/test_samples/EnolaGay.wv (http://www.rarewares.org/test_samples/EnolaGay.wv)
A CLI wrapper for enc_fhgaac.dll:
[attachment=6623:fhgaacenc_20110714.zip]
A CLI wrapper for enc_fhgaac.dll:
[attachment=6623:fhgaacenc_20110714.zip]
Great! Thank you very much, nao
Now we have access to every encoder through the command line.
Alex B, thanks. Uploading really wasn't necessary.
Looks like the Pop / Rock section scored some good samples.
A CLI wrapper for enc_fhgaac.dll:
[attachment=6623:fhgaacenc_20110714.zip]
Awesome, thanks!
Jerkin Back 'n Forth http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....ost&id=6585 (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=6585)
Are we not men?
Thanks nao. It seems to work fine.
Are we not men?
A: We Are Devo!
ABCHR configurations for verification
ctaacenc: a slightly modified version of fhgaacenc that works with enc_aacplus.dll instead of enc_fhgaac.dll (this zip file doesn't include libsndfile DLL; copy it from fhgaacenc bundle).
[attachment=6625:ctaacenc_20110717.zip]
Is it better than enc_aacplus.exe? (this version contains the gapless encoding bugfix by nao).
Is it better than enc_aacplus.exe? (this version contains the gapless encoding bugfix by nao).
:sigh: Well, I didn't even know about this version
I'm sorry, I had to share it once I've got it yesterday.
A CLI wrapper for enc_fhgaac.dll:
[attachment=6623:fhgaacenc_20110714.zip]
thanks a lot for your great work...please, could you improve this tool by adding adts stdout support?
_