Skip to main content

Topic: Does "no match" from CUETools and AccurateRip databases confirm inaccurate rip? (Read 2015 times) previous topic - next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
  • --I--
  • [*]
Does "no match" from CUETools and AccurateRip databases confirm inaccurate rip?
I use a rip of a major CD release in this example, CUETools 2.1.5 log:

Code: [Select]
[CTDB TOCID: CvjXmcnRHDX9zFeVGzOhrlu.oqA-] found.
Track | CTDB Status
  1   | (  0/194) No match
  2   | (  0/194) No match
  3   | (  0/194) No match
  4   | (  0/194) No match
  5   | (  0/194) No match
  6   | (  0/194) No match
  7   | (  0/194) No match
  8   | (  0/194) No match
  9   | (  0/194) No match
 10   | (  0/194) No match
 11   | (  0/194) No match
 12   | (  0/194) No match
 13   | (  0/194) No match
 14   | (  0/194) No match

Code: [Select]
[AccurateRip ID: 00187cbf-01088eeb-bc0c160e] found.
Track   [  CRC   |   V2   ] Status
 01     [151de090|30caa53e] (00+00/45) No match
 02     [53b0b4b6|3835ee8e] (00+00/45) No match
 03     [6b141806|496884d2] (00+00/45) No match
 04     [54e14f98|22133b56] (00+00/45) No match
 05     [67c0b9db|0ae0c4b2] (00+00/45) No match
 06     [61e4bc87|3ff4cbee] (00+00/45) No match
 07     [8faa5e2b|95c08cd6] (00+00/45) No match
 08     [7c7704a2|ba82b0cc] (00+00/45) No match
 09     [c21064e8|17d4865e] (00+00/45) No match
 10     [e5340313|012f83f5] (00+00/45) No match

I'm assuming there are no alternative versions in existence. Is this rip certainly inaccurate as there are so many results in the databases?
  • Last Edit: 02 October, 2017, 01:04:47 PM by --I--

  • NetRanger
  • [*][*][*]
Re: Does "no match" from CUETools and AccurateRip databases confirm inaccurate rip?
Reply #1
No. Your results can depend on that the CD you rip is a different pressing and it's not in the CT/AR databases yet

Re: Does "no match" from CUETools and AccurateRip databases confirm inaccurate rip?
Reply #2
Different pressings affect AR database, not CT database.
If the CD is found in the cuetools database, with 194 results!, and all tracks show no match, obviously those files have been modified after ripping. If it's downloaded from a web site, it's probably watermarking. If it's a download from some other site, it can be anything.
The probability of ripping an original CD yourself, and get that result is null.
  • Last Edit: 02 October, 2017, 02:00:27 PM by Shostakovich

  • --I--
  • [*]
Re: Does "no match" from CUETools and AccurateRip databases confirm inaccurate rip?
Reply #3
Different pressings affect AR database, not CT database.
If the CD is found in the cuetools database, with 194 results!, and all tracks show no match, obviously those files have been modified after ripping. If it's downloaded from a web site, it's probably watermarking. If it's a download from some other site, it can be anything.
The probability of ripping an original CD yourself, and get that result is null.
The album indeed has been downloaded from the web.

Re: Does "no match" from CUETools and AccurateRip databases confirm inaccurate rip?
Reply #4
In the thread title question, you're asking about a possible "inaccurate rip". But that result show that the files have been modified after the ripping. The ripping itself could have been perfect, not that it matters now.

  • shaboo
  • [*]
Re: Does "no match" from CUETools and AccurateRip databases confirm inaccurate rip?
Reply #5
Different pressings affect AR database, not CT database.
If the CD is found in the cuetools database, with 194 results!, and all tracks show no match, obviously those files have been modified after ripping. If it's downloaded from a web site, it's probably watermarking. If it's a download from some other site, it can be anything.
The probability of ripping an original CD yourself, and get that result is null.
The album indeed has been downloaded from the web.
Using ARDB/CTDB verification on downloaded files only makes sense when you can be 100% sure that it's actually an unmodified CD rip.

Re: Does "no match" from CUETools and AccurateRip databases confirm inaccurate rip?
Reply #6
Different pressings affect AR database, not CT database.
If the CD is found in the cuetools database, with 194 results!, and all tracks show no match, obviously those files have been modified after ripping. If it's downloaded from a web site, it's probably watermarking. If it's a download from some other site, it can be anything.
The probability of ripping an original CD yourself, and get that result is null.
The album indeed has been downloaded from the web.
Using ARDB/CTDB verification on downloaded files only makes sense when you can be 100% sure that it's actually an unmodified CD rip.

That doesn't make much sense.
The only way of knowing that the files have not been modified is verifying them. How can you possibly know that the files have not been modified before that?
If cuetools gives "accurately ripped" on all tracks, then you know those files are from a perfect rip of a CD.
  • Last Edit: 04 October, 2017, 02:26:16 PM by Shostakovich

  • JunkieXL
  • [*][*][*][*]
Re: Does "no match" from CUETools and AccurateRip databases confirm inaccurate rip?
Reply #7
The only way to verify an accurate rip on downloaded content is by looking at the EAC log file that you downloaded with the music.

You cannot recreate a bit for bit identical copy of the original CD using downloaded content.  Even if you load it as an image file and rip from a virtual drive, there will be differences.

Therefore....there is no way to take the downloaded content and compare it to rips made off of the original CD.

This entire discussion is pointless once you factor that in.
JXL

If you don't believe me.... Rip a CD and verify it as accurate.  Then burn the resulting files to a CDr... even with perfect read and write offsets entered... the resulting CDr will have bit differences from the original CD.  Load it as an image and do the same thing.  There will be differences.
  • Last Edit: 05 October, 2017, 12:57:48 PM by JunkieXL

Re: Does "no match" from CUETools and AccurateRip databases confirm inaccurate rip?
Reply #8
The only way to verify an accurate rip on downloaded content is by looking at the EAC log file that you downloaded with the music.

You cannot recreate a bit for bit identical copy of the original CD using downloaded content.  Even if you load it as an image file and rip from a virtual drive, there will be differences.

Therefore....there is no way to take the downloaded content and compare it to rips made off of the original CD.

This entire discussion is pointless once you factor that in.
JXL

Everything you say is false, and I mean everything.

Who says that you download a log file?
"The only way to verify an accurate rip on downloaded content is by looking at the EAC log file that you downloaded with the music."
That's just idiotic. Then, what do you think cuetools verification function does? Nothing? It's just a fraud?

Of course you can recreate a CD, what "differences" are you talking about?
If you download a FLAC file, and when you verify it shows "accurately ripped", there will be zero differences.

  • Wombat
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Does "no match" from CUETools and AccurateRip databases confirm inaccurate rip?
Reply #9
I repaired more than one download with CUEtools i purchased at bandcamp.
Artists over there obviously offer files they ripped themself from former cd releases including non corrected offsets and ripping errors. CUEtools nicely identifies them without any cue or log.
Is troll-adiposity coming from feederism?
With 24bit music you can listen to silence much louder!

  • JunkieXL
  • [*][*][*][*]
Re: Does "no match" from CUETools and AccurateRip databases confirm inaccurate rip?
Reply #10
The only way to verify an accurate rip on downloaded content is by looking at the EAC log file that you downloaded with the music.

You cannot recreate a bit for bit identical copy of the original CD using downloaded content.  Even if you load it as an image file and rip from a virtual drive, there will be differences.

Therefore....there is no way to take the downloaded content and compare it to rips made off of the original CD.

This entire discussion is pointless once you factor that in.
JXL

Everything you say is false, and I mean everything.

Who says that you download a log file?
"The only way to verify an accurate rip on downloaded content is by looking at the EAC log file that you downloaded with the music."
That's just idiotic. Then, what do you think cuetools verification function does? Nothing? It's just a fraud?

Of course you can recreate a CD, what "differences" are you talking about?
If you download a FLAC file, and when you verify it shows "accurately ripped", there will be zero differences.

Have you ever burned a CDr from accurately ripped lossless content and then tried to rip the resulting CDr to see if it was accurate?  I have...

Once you actually test the BS you are spouting, then you can post again.
Thanks... bye.
JXL

  • Case
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
  • Developer (Donating)
Re: Does "no match" from CUETools and AccurateRip databases confirm inaccurate rip?
Reply #11
Have you ever burned a CDr from accurately ripped lossless content and then tried to rip the resulting CDr to see if it was accurate?
I used to do that a lot when I was younger. The burned contents are absolutely bit-identical if you use the correct write offset with your drive. Only potential difference one might encounter is if the clipped milliseconds of audio weren't silence. I don't think I had any such discs.

Re: Does "no match" from CUETools and AccurateRip databases confirm inaccurate rip?
Reply #12
Good bye to you too!

Of course I've burn CD-Rs, or burn to image and then mount the image with virtual drives and rip it again. And the result is again "accurately ripped", no "diferences" whatsoever.

But that's not the question, because when cuetools says it's accurate, you don't need to burn it and rip it again, that's the whole point of cuetools verification !!!!

  • Porcus
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Does "no match" from CUETools and AccurateRip databases confirm inaccurate rip?
Reply #13
Oh, the bleeding obvious once more: The CUETools database accepts uploads from files, and not only upon ripping. If you downloaded the file - legally or not - you have no guarantee that a match is not to a copy of the file. Thus, the observation that it matches a CTDB entry verifies nothing about the original rip (if there ever was any original rip!). 
And multiple exclamation marks verify something completely different.

The AR database tries to guard against this (not the "!!!!") by accepting submissions only upon ripping, but it cannot guard against a burned CD-ROM being ripped and on a different computer and then compared to the rip it was burned from.

I repaired more than one download with CUEtools i purchased at bandcamp.
Artists over there obviously offer files they ripped themself from former cd releases including non corrected offsets and ripping errors. CUEtools nicely identifies them without any cue or log.
Yeah, in some way it is a good sign when there is actually something to repair; most likely your Bandcamp purchase can be compared to a CD, and that the artist did not decode a lossy for upload.
I have never got from Bandcamp any FLAC with AccurateRip tags or log tags though - but this purchase had such.

Re: Does "no match" from CUETools and AccurateRip databases confirm inaccurate rip?
Reply #14
Nice avatar !!!!

In the first post of the thread, there are 194 entries on the database. And the result is "no match". You can infer from that that the files have been modified after the ripping.

As for if the coutools verification tool is worthless or not, I disagree.

"The CUETools database accepts uploads from files, and not only upon ripping"
That's just not true. If you verify a file, not present in cuetools database, and has two or more accurate result in AR database, then it's added to cuetools database, but only once. Further verifications won't add more results to CT database.
You can only add more entries ripping it, being CD-R or virtual, ripping in secure mode. Burst mode doesn't add entries.
So you are saying that the verification is wortless because maybe some people is ripping CD-Rs or virtual images, originated from downloaded files, in secure mode, just for the sake of it. That's just against probability, common sense, and any interest on what's actually real, just for the sake of trolling.





  • Porcus
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Does "no match" from CUETools and AccurateRip databases confirm inaccurate rip?
Reply #15
In the first post of the thread, there are 194 entries on the database. And the result is "no match". You can infer from that that the files have been modified after the ripping.
The files need not ever have been on CD. There need not be any "after the ripping".

As for if the coutools verification tool is worthless or not, I
... build a strawman to disagree with. "worthless" is your word, not mine.

"The CUETools database accepts uploads from files, and not only upon ripping"
That's just not true. If you verify a file, not present in cuetools database, and has two or more accurate result in AR database, then it's added to cuetools database, but only once.
"but only once"?  Right. If I claim that you were born, would you then reply "just not true" because you were only born once? You do not even contradict what you claim is "not true", you support it.

you are saying that the verification is wortless
I did not say "wortless" without the "h" either. Stop lying.

Re: Does "no match" from CUETools and AccurateRip databases confirm inaccurate rip?
Reply #16
"The files need not ever have been on CD. There need not be any "after the ripping". "
That's not true.
There are 194 entries in the database. If there's no CD, there would be zero entries.
If you try to verify a file, and it's not in both databases, then nothing is added to the database.
If you try to verify a file, and there are no entries in the CT database, but there are at least two accurate entries in the AR database, then one entry is added to the CT database. But that's because there were several entries, from CD rips, to the AR database. So in fact there was a CD rip.
But, from the 194 entries, only 1, at most, can be from a non CD rip, all the rest, the 193, must come from CD rips. Being that original or CD-R.

It makes no sense that some people are burning to CD-R and then rip that CD-R to obtain just a duplicate of the file they already have. At least not 193 people, that just absurd.

The original question was about if you can infer something about the result of cuetools verification from that example. And you say that no, you can't. When in fact you can infer quite a lot. So you are implying that cuetools can not do things that it can do.

  • Wombat
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Does "no match" from CUETools and AccurateRip databases confirm inaccurate rip?
Reply #17
Before some speculate on we should ask the OP if he bought that one? If so i don't see his rip made it into the database.
http://db.cuetools.net/?tocid=CvjXmcnRHDX9zFeVGzOhrlu.oqA-
Is troll-adiposity coming from feederism?
With 24bit music you can listen to silence much louder!

  • Porcus
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Does "no match" from CUETools and AccurateRip databases confirm inaccurate rip?
Reply #18
"The files need not ever have been on CD. There need not be any "after the ripping". "
That's not true.
There are 194 entries in the database. If there's no CD, there would be zero entries.

And so all files must be from the CD - and not the CD have been created from a file? If you read this thread, you may even notice that "someone" mentioned that the file may have been watermarked. That "someone" has forgotten about this - most likely "forgotten" on purpose, out of dishonesty.

Will that "someone" now claim that record labels - who possess files from which the CDs are created - rip a CD in order to supply to online vendors?


And you say that no, you can't.

Liar.

Re: Does "no match" from CUETools and AccurateRip databases confirm inaccurate rip?
Reply #19
Of course you can create a CD from a file. But, if you actually read what I posted, the probability of 193 people doing that and ripping that CD-R, is null. So yes, it must be from an original CD.

Do you mean me, by someone forgetting watermarking? What has that to do with anything?

The result of the first post is in fact pretty common, but for stuff downloaded from the web, not for rips that you made. The fact that the database identify the files as a CD rip, is because it's in fact a CD rip, go figure! And the fact that all tracks show "no match", is not due to a bad rip, because as I said, you don't find such a result ripping a CD, but due to a later manipulation of the files.
This manipulation can be anything, so it's just a guess work.
In the case of a commercial download, with such a result (identified as a CD rip by the database and with "no match" in all tracks), the guess can be about a watermarking, of course. I don't know shit about the suply line of any vendor.
Anyway, I've downloaded the file and I've obtained the same result. So it can be anything.

As for you trolling, you said :
"Oh, the bleeding obvious once more: The CUETools database accepts uploads from files, and not only upon ripping. If you downloaded the file - legally or not - you have no guarantee that a match is not to a copy of the file. Thus, the observation that it matches a CTDB entry verifies nothing about the original rip (if there ever was any original rip!). "
And that's just a lie. Cuetools doesn't accept uploads from files, as I said before.


  • Rollin
  • [*][*][*][*]
Re: Does "no match" from CUETools and AccurateRip databases confirm inaccurate rip?
Reply #20
Artists over there obviously offer files they ripped themself from former cd releases including non corrected offsets and ripping errors. CUEtools nicely identifies them without any cue or log.
Are you sure it wasn't other way around: CD was created and pressed from files, that artist has, so CD contains pressing errors and offset?

  • Porcus
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Does "no match" from CUETools and AccurateRip databases confirm inaccurate rip?
Reply #21
But, if you actually read what I posted
Yes I read what you posted. I read your false claims, and I read how you consistently pull a straw man strategy - not only towards myself - and outright lie about what others say.

the probability of 193 people doing that and ripping that CD-R, is null. So yes, it must be from an original CD.
Wrong. It could be generated from the files that were used to create the CD. Files sent (I) to the mastering plant for pressing - and (II) through watermarking and then to online vendors. Files (II) need not have been on a CD ever.
I also have different masterings with precisely the same CDTOC. I have CDs that have the same CDTOC, but differ in the LSB throughout the disc - most likely, a second pressing with dither applied once more, not only offset.

Do you mean me, by someone forgetting watermarking? What has that to do with anything?
That you should have have been aware that files from online vendors need not have been on CD and thus need not have been ripped ever, in which case it is bollocks to talk about post-rip manipulations.

The fact that the database identify the files as a CD rip, is because it's in fact a CD rip, go figure!
It is because lengths match those of a CD. That does not mean the files were ever on a CD. In this case, the artist released is as download before the CD was out. As "super digital edition", whatever that means. It could very well be that dither or peak-normalization was applied when the files were sent to CD mastering, what do you know about that?

And the fact that all tracks show "no match", is not due to a bad rip, because as I said, you don't find such a result ripping a CD, but due to a later manipulation of the files.
It could be due to "manipulation" before pressing.

I don't know shit about
things you are all to big-mouthed about.

just a lie. Cuetools doesn't accept uploads from files, as I said before.
CUETools has reported to have accepted quite a few submissions of mine, all from files.

Re: Does "no match" from CUETools and AccurateRip databases confirm inaccurate rip?
Reply #22
The solution is very simple.

Show me how can you create an entry in the cuetools database using only files. Select some FLAC tracks from different CDs, like a mixtape, and then show me the steps to generate an entry in the database. Of course, without burning to CD-R.

I'm all for science. Show me how can you do something that I don't think can be done.

  • Porcus
  • [*][*][*][*][*]
Re: Does "no match" from CUETools and AccurateRip databases confirm inaccurate rip?
Reply #23
from different CDs, like a mixtape

Again you are pulling out irrelevant nonsense. Obviously deliberately.

I'm all for science.

Then why do you keep on lying so consistently?

Re: Does "no match" from CUETools and AccurateRip databases confirm inaccurate rip?
Reply #24
You're the one lying. You said that cuetools database accepts entries from files, and not just CD rips.