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Topic: Music-Style optimized APS? (Read 3029 times) previous topic - next topic
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Music-Style optimized APS?

Hi,

If you look at your digital-camera, you find a switch, telling the camera, which kind of light you use, to get an optimal "white" out of your pictures. If you don't want to think about that, you can use "auto".

Compared to the light-settings of a digital-camera:
Would it make sense, to implement "music-style"-specific presets, e.g. "--preset-standard --classic",  "--preset-extrem --metall" or "--preset-normal --speech", so the internal switches and models can be optimized for the specific music style to reduce the average bitrate and/or to improve the quality?

Is this idea far from reality?

Music-Style optimized APS?

Reply #1
The decision for bitrate distribution is drawn by the codec itself when using VBR ... so LAME aps (or MPC/OGG etc.) exactly does what you're thinking about ... try to encode metal/rock with aps and compare that with some classical music and you will see that average bitrates are higher for music e.g. containing lots of overtones (like guitar-biased rock music) ...

Another example would be some "historic" music (Beatles etc.) where bitrate is lower (IMO mostly due to limited bandwith of the original recording) ...
The name was Plex The Ripper, not Jack The Ripper

Music-Style optimized APS?

Reply #2
Quote
The decision for bitrate distribution is drawn by the codec itself when using VBR ... so LAME aps (or MPC/OGG etc.) exactly does what you're thinking about ... try to encode metal/rock with aps and compare that with some classical music and you will see that average bitrates are higher for music e.g. containing lots of overtones (like guitar-biased rock music) ...

Another example would be some "historic" music (Beatles etc.) where bitrate is lower (IMO mostly due to limited bandwith of the original recording) ...

No.

My idea was: If LAME would have known, that it is going to encode metal/rock, than maybe it would adjust some internal switches, so that the average bitrate wouldn't be so high and still the result has the same quality.

You see the difference?

Music-Style optimized APS?

Reply #3
the reason the bitrate is higher is because it needs that much to give you the quality you want. What you're thinking of makes no sense.

Music-Style optimized APS?

Reply #4
Quote
What you're thinking of makes no sense.

Yeah? Why? Have you ever asked yourself, why you don't use WinZip to compress music? The reason is obvious. WinZip can compress some sort of documents better, than others. You always try to find the optimal compressor for the desired docuement type. So why is it so sensles to think about music as different types of document, where the music-style specifies the document-type.

Maybe some internal switches of LAME are exactly the way they are, because they try to be on the secure side for each type of music. Mabye the security-buffer can be lowered in some cases if some extremes can be ruled out for some types of music?

Music-Style optimized APS?

Reply #5
Some reasons why LAME has to encode rock music at such high music to get them 99.9% right: sub-optimal short-block size, no scalefactors above a certain frequency. Somehow noise does not appeal to the mp3 format. If you can stomach a better codec for rock music I suggest Musepack (best if you listen to all your music on the PC).

The lowered 'security buffer' you are talking about is in the form of --alt-preset medium. You probably cannot hear a difference even between apm and aps, and even if you do, you have to provide ABX results. Have fun.

Music-Style optimized APS?

Reply #6
Quote
Quote
What you're thinking of makes no sense.

Yeah? Why? Have you ever asked yourself, why you don't use WinZip to compress music? The reason is obvious. WinZip can compress some sort of documents better, than others. You always try to find the optimal compressor for the desired docuement type. So why is it so sensles to think about music as different types of document, where the music-style specifies the document-type.

You're thinking about this in the wrong terms.

The reason audio files don't compress as well as standard documents with traditional lossless compressors is due to the type of signal represented by audio.  These audio compressors work at the signal level, not the musical level, and at the signal level, most music looks pretty similar, which makes this idea pretty much useless.

There might be some extreme cases where a bit of tuning could be done, such as when encoding certain types of more synthetic signals (extreme electronic type stuff.. Glitch/IDM or Noise for example where more strict pre-echo control might be useful), but even then the difference would be very small and could probably be made irrelevant by simply tuning the psymodel better (which would translate to better performance across all genres).

Anyway, this idea has been discussed many times already here.  About once every 6 months, someone proposes it again

Music-Style optimized APS?

Reply #7
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Anyway, this idea has been discussed many times already here.  About once every 6 months, someone proposes it again

Thanks, first usefull answer. Sorry, I've been here for a while and it seems, that I'm allways offline, when this idea passes the forum. Wouln't have mentioned it, if I had seen it before. 

 

Music-Style optimized APS?

Reply #8
Quote
My idea was: If LAME would have known, that it is going to encode metal/rock, than maybe it would adjust some internal switches, so that the average bitrate wouldn't be so high and still the result has the same quality.

You see the difference?

I see the difference but your proposal is not feasible with any given codec ... since VBR encoding aims @ constant quality (and bitrate thus will be different for different music styles) there is no need of further tweaking or optimizations IMHO ... as long as you do not want to have a command line encoder whose *.exe is some 20 MB in size due to some 1000 different music styles demanding different analysis algorithms ... maybe M$ will do so in the future (getting big files is their special field of operation, though - think about Zip being able to compress a word document to 10% of its original size  )
The name was Plex The Ripper, not Jack The Ripper

 
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