HydrogenAudio

Hydrogenaudio Forum => Polls => Topic started by: IgorC on 2021-03-22 02:34:16

Poll
Question: What lossy format(s) do you use on a *regular* basis?
Option 1: AAC or HE-AAC v1/v2 (.m4a, .aac…)
Option 2: LossyWAV + lossless (.lossy.flac, .lossy.wv, .lossy.tak…)
Option 3: MP3 (.mp3)
Option 4: Musepack (.mpc)
Option 5: Ogg Vorbis (.ogg)
Option 6: Opus (.opus)
Option 7: WavPack Lossy/Hybrid (.wv)
Option 8: xHE-AAC (USAC)
Option 9: I don't really use any lossy codec on a regular basis
Title: 2021 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: IgorC on 2021-03-22 02:34:16
 Hi,

This is a new year so what lossy format(s) do you use on a *regular* basis?  :)

The results over the years:
(https://i.imgur.com/GTMMD4o.png)
Title: Re: 2021 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: Porcus on 2021-03-22 08:29:06
format(s)
The site's poll function still cannot handle a plural here?
Title: Re: 2021 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: kode54 on 2021-03-22 09:21:40
The forum script still doesn't support it. Unless someone wants to manage both buying some commercial script, or switching to Discourse, and in either case, managing to somehow migrate our data again.
Title: Re: 2021 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: Porcus on 2021-03-22 09:25:31
Fair enough.

As last year I play mostly mp3s and encode mostly as opus. Don't know if voting opus would be consistent with what I voted earlier on.  I might even have voted the I don't option.
Title: Re: 2021 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: soundping on 2021-03-22 20:49:52
xHE-AAC (USAC) doesn't play on android.   :(
Title: Re: 2021 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: kode54 on 2021-03-22 21:33:40
It does if your Android is at least Android 8? 9? That's where we even have an open source USAC decoder at all, by ripping FDKAAC from the AOSP code base as it gets published.
Title: Re: 2021 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: soundping on 2021-03-22 21:57:40
It's 9.
Title: Re: 2021 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: kode54 on 2021-03-22 23:42:57
Then I guess your Android device disables AAC playback altogether to avoid paying the AAC license fees.
Title: Re: 2021 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: celona on 2021-03-23 03:57:33
xHE-AAC (USAC) doesn't play on android.   :(

It could be because libfdk_aac only works in mono or stereo, if the file tested contains two mono channels it will not work.
Title: Re: 2021 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: shadowking on 2021-03-23 08:16:29
local storage mobile : WV lossy 256k
local storage home: WV hybrid lossless
streaming mobile: spotify HQ 160k, others 64 ~ 128k
streaming at home: spotify VHQ 320k, others; highest bitrate i can find.
Title: Re: 2021 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: DARcode on 2021-03-24 07:17:49
WavPack lossy on DAP and smartphone if ripped by me, otherwise the best lossy format (on top of the lossless one course) the download code offers which is most often than not MP3, AAC from just Bandcamp.
Title: Re: 2021 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: kode54 on 2021-03-24 08:00:10
I toy with formats like USAC, and I use MP3 if I need to make a lossy copy that will be playable right from a chat client on all platforms. Otherwise, I stick to using FLAC for archival purposes, or for local playback.
Title: Re: 2021 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: soundping on 2021-03-24 08:18:09
Poweramp is the problem on my phone. Gonemad works.
Title: Re: 2021 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: kode54 on 2021-03-25 00:13:30
Apps that use their own decoders obviously won't support it. There is only one open source USAC decoder, and it comes for free with Android 9.
Title: Re: 2021 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: binaryhermit on 2021-03-25 11:41:08
Opus or whatever the podcast I listen to is encoded in.

Also, AAC or SBC via bluetooth but that probably doesn't count for the purposes of this post.
Title: Re: 2021 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: synclagz on 2021-03-26 18:03:34
WavPack Lossy (-b450hh) pretty much everywhere. Both PC and smartphone. Seriously considering this setting as my only archive (I still have my original Flac archive for now).
Title: Re: 2021 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: synclagz on 2021-03-26 18:05:07
xHE-AAC (USAC) doesn't play on android.   :(
Yes it does. :-)
Just discovered Cx File Explorer which plays exhale encoded stuff. :)
Title: Re: 2021 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: kode54 on 2021-03-26 18:47:23
It was already determined that the reason their Android player didn't support it was because it was doing its own decoding or file format parsing.
Title: Re: 2021 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: synclagz on 2021-03-26 20:33:08
I'm just pointing out an alternative way to play xHE aac (exhale) audio files. We all know that only very few apps can play xHE aac on android (if any at all). ;)
Title: Re: 2021 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: birdie on 2021-03-27 09:58:49
I can't vote since I use more than one. Please change the poll to checkboxes/multiple answers.
Title: Re: 2021 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: Porcus on 2021-03-27 10:44:33
I can't vote since I use more than one. Please change the poll to checkboxes/multiple answers.
Impossible. Post #2 and #3.
Title: Re: 2021 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: birdie on 2021-03-27 11:02:27
Possible: https://linkto.run/p/QS6X98RC

Added notice:

The results cannot be verified but given that this forum is not known to attract spammers or fanboys, the results could probably be used.
Title: Re: 2021 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: jaybeee on 2021-03-27 11:08:10
Possible: https://linkto.run/p/QS6X98RC
yay. voted
Title: Re: 2021 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: includemeout on 2021-03-30 20:24:45
Musepack + MP3 (in-car listening).
Title: Re: 2021 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: includemeout on 2021-03-30 20:26:33
Possible: https://linkto.run/p/QS6X98RC

Added notice:

The results cannot be verified but given that this forum is not known to attract spammers or fanboys, the results could probably be used.
 
 With my non-diagnosed OCD, that will probably translate into my creating two separate graphs come the end of the year.  ::)
Title: Re: 2021 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: IgorC on 2021-04-07 21:20:18
I don't really use any lossy codec explicitly on a regular basis.  While driving I use Tidal on phone (hooked to car's bluetooth) which automatically switches from FLAC to AAC when connected to metered 4G.

Possible: https://linkto.run/p/QS6X98RC

Added notice:

The results cannot be verified but given that this forum is not known to attract spammers or fanboys, the results could probably be used.
Nice. Voted there as well.
Title: Re: 2021 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: celona on 2021-04-08 02:19:25
I don't really use any lossy codec explicitly on a regular basis.

Me too, I keep my music in ISO BFF, encoded in ALAC (lossless, float32, so I could not keep it in FLAC), I pay iTunes Match which allows me to hear any song in my library in AAC by matching the songs present and uploading of songs not present in their servers. But the contents are not only these, when I send I send a voice message I use Opus, I keep my speech recordings in AAC, when I listen to television I listen to MPEG 1 - Layer 2, I hear the radio in analogue or HE-AAC , If I watch a video on YouTube I receive the audio in AAC (in Opus with Linux), if I listen to a podcast it is almost always in AAC or MPEG 1 - Layer 3, in a nutshell I no longer decide anything except how to keep my music, which in the past I kept in uncompressed AIFF. For work I can choose to keep the recordings in an ISO standardized format.
Title: Re: 2021 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: Porcus on 2021-04-08 11:27:18
encoded in ALAC (lossless, float32
What, does ALAC support that? (It very well could ... refalac doesn't.)
Title: Re: 2021 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: ThaCrip on 2021-04-08 17:19:57
MP3 ; at least as of very recent memory...

...since I got a hold of a 'AGPTEK-U3(8GB)' device (for about $25) on Mar 18th 2021 as that only supports MP3/WMA/WAV, which pretty much means MP3 since WAV files are too large and no one uses WMA. I am using LAME V5 (130kbps) on pretty much all of my music I put on it as it's a efficient bit rate with MP3 and sound quality is good enough in general (although I could put all my MP3's at V0 (245kbps) if I wanted to. but at V5, it helps ensure that 16GB MicroSD card will be plenty for years to come).

that AGPTEK-U3 device has a MicroSD card slot and claims it supports up to 128GB (which would be major overkill for me unless one is using WAV files on it). I currently got a 16GB MicroSD card in it which is what I am using to store my music on as that will easily last me for the foreseeable future (especially since I have tweaked my collection a bit to remove most of the 'filler' songs on albums to just the songs that stand out for me (or thereabouts) as this further frees up space and raises the average quality of the songs I got on my device).

but at this point in time Opus/AAC(AAC-LC)/MP3 (in that order) are all that's worth considering for lossy formats when factoring in the best lossy format along with widely supported formats in my opinion and the general poll results are pretty much inline with this mindset. so MP3 would be my choice only if a device fails to support Opus/AAC(AAC-LC).

but with that said... I did use MPC a little here and there over the years on my Sansa e200 series device (running 'Rockbox') which I pretty much retired recently (it will still power on and run a while but you can tell the battery is so-so though and you have to recharge it a bit more often than I would like to) since it's hard to find quality replacement batteries which is why I bought the AGPTEK-U3(8GB) device since it uses a standard single AAA battery. I use rechargeable NiMh (seems to get around 12 hours of battery life on a single 800mAh battery (which is actually 800mAh according to my Powerex C9000 charger)) and ill never have to worry about the device being pretty much crap due to lack of quality replacement batteries (the AGPTEK-U3 device is like those old MP3 players from the 2000's (navigating the interface is a bit slower etc but you can select folders to play music from which was a critical feature I needed the device to have) but, unlike those, it has plenty of storage space). I just hope the device is reliable enough as I hope I can get at least 10+ years of use out of it as I am not a type of person who buys a device and disposes it in a few years or so like many do. the Sansa e200 series device was a solid digital audio player but the battery became it's biggest flaw as time passed. o well, I had the Sansa e200 series player since I think June 2008 and I got quite a bit of use out of it over the years.

but when I am on my computer I generally play the lossless (FLAC) files instead of lossy ones through Foobar2000. but when I am on-the-go is when ill use (at least as of very recently) MP3 on that AGPTEK-U3(8GB) device. but prior to getting that recently I was using MPC on the Sansa e200 running Rockbox at the 'standard' 170kbps setting mostly because I think that was a bit better on battery than AAC is and being the e200's battery is so-so, I was trying to squeeze as much battery life out of it as possible. so I had to use either MPC or MP3 it seems from that aspect otherwise I would have probably went with AAC(AAC-LC) at 96kbps (or 128kbps MAX).

p.s. but whether I would recommend that AGPTEK-U3 device or not largely boils down to whether it's built-to-last or not (as it's a cheap china made device as it might last for many years but it may not.). if it lasts for a long time I would definitely say it's a good buy for someone looking for a basic/cheap MP3 player for on-the-go music as it's light in weight and good battery life on a single AAA at about 12 hours on a single 800mAh NiMh battery (they officially claim 'up to 10 hours' on battery life which might be true depending on the battery used, but in my case, while I did not measure it precisely, I had to be around 12 hours or so from a quick estimated amount of use when testing it after I got it. NOTE: the device has 4 battery bars and I noticed once the last battery block is shown (like the device is battery is close to empty) you got about 1 hour left before the battery is dead on my NiMh battery test, which is nice since it gives one ample time to use it and serves as a warning to re-charge it soon once you see the 1 battery block left on screen). I use the 'Rock' sound preset which is definitely better than the default one.
Title: Re: 2021 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: For Serious on 2021-04-09 17:39:15
I actually use wma pro more than ogg vorbis. Since that was taken off as an option on these pulls, I went with ogg because 8.5% of my computer library is ogg. My mobile is all wma pro though.
(They really should have been treated as different options. Most things that can play wma can't play wma pro.)
Title: Re: 2021 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: ThaCrip on 2021-04-09 18:46:12
I actually use wma pro more than ogg vorbis.

I am surprised someone around here uses WMA as it seems like a format barely anyone uses at this point in time(?). hell, Foobar2000 (which seems to be a popular audio playback/conversion program around here) does not even have a WMA preset option in the 'Convert' screen which probably says a lot about WMA.

I would assume MP3/AAC/Vorbis(ogg)/Opus (and possibly some others) are more popular/used than WMA at this point in time. so in my opinion... I would seriously consider re-ripping from your lossless files to another more common lossy format. unless of course you don't have all of your collection in lossless format then this might not be a real option.
Title: Re: 2021 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: For Serious on 2021-04-09 19:03:46
Well, it works on GoneMad Music player. That's all I need. I tried Vorbis, but when I rated a song, it corrupted the file. They have since re-wrote the whole app and probably fixed that issue, but hey, I'll probably hold out using wma pro until its bitter end.
Title: Re: 2021 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: Porcus on 2021-04-09 20:15:00
I kinda agree - it only needs to work on that player I use. Because lossy files which I encode myself, are disposable.
It is even a point to have it in a format I don't use for anything else. I chose opus, but I should maybe even have considered Musepack.
(But WMA Pro? Nah, has same file suffix as ordinary WMA.)
Title: Re: 2021 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: ThaCrip on 2021-04-10 09:38:07
Well, it works on GoneMad Music player. That's all I need. I tried Vorbis, but when I rated a song, it corrupted the file. They have since re-wrote the whole app and probably fixed that issue, but hey, I'll probably hold out using wma pro until its bitter end.

I see. but I took a quick look online and it appears that's a app for a android smart phone(?). if so, I would probably just start using the Foobar2000 mobile app instead since it will support Opus (and all of the other more common formats like MP3/AAC etc) which is what I would opt for anyways since you can probably use 64kbps with the Opus format on a smart phone, especially if your tight on space and have a decent sized music collection. but if you prefer to stick to more standardized formats then naturally MP3 or AAC would be your safest bet. but putting those aside, Opus looks like the best, especially of the modern lossy formats.
Title: Re: 2021 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: soundping on 2021-04-10 13:50:33
GoneMAD player supports all the formats in the Poll.  I'm uninstalling Poweramp player.
Title: Re: 2021 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: For Serious on 2021-04-11 03:00:40
Haha, funny you should say that. I also started with Poweramp player too.
I would probably just start using the Foobar2000 mobile app instead...
Foobar2000 mobile does not do play counts. GoneMad meets and exceeds the bar set by the Creative Labs Zen Vision: M player. (Maybe it doesn't play movies.... but that's the only thing.) In fact, most dedicated mobile music players and music player apps, fall pretty short when compared to standards set by mobile music players from back in 2005.
Title: Re: 2021 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: fabiorug on 2021-04-11 09:26:26
I use exhale v1.1.0-c71ec480-Stable_Win_GCC102 with preset 2 on some songs that required lower bitrate, at the moment is only a list calculated in ytm, the rest is opus 128 kbps not converted by me (not videoclip), or flac when i need dynamic range (i have like six new).


For preset 1 i prefer v.1.0.3-41751381: it gives consistent results. 18/05/2020, opus 64 kbps sounds mono to me, or fake stereo,
only x he aac sounds stereo to me. A good SBR is exhale-develop-1.1.0rc4-c71ec480_x64 at a-b.  At preset 4 i used exhale-1.0.8-39dc1852-RC_Win_GCC102 but i should've used exhale-1.1.2-193dc268_(BETA) as it has better temporal resolution, but i prefer to avoid preset 4 and only use preset 2.  I'm not an expert. I'll stop here, these are the one i usually use.
Now i will vote opus.
Title: Re: 2021 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: bscand72 on 2021-04-21 06:24:19
I use Opus at 128 kbps for music and 32 kbps for podcasts on all my devices (android phone, rockbox dap, computer). It's open source, sounds great at low bitrates and is well supported at this point. 96 kbps is pretty much always transparent for me in ABX tests, I just use 128 kbps to be on the safe side.
Title: Re: 2021 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: ani_Jackal3 on 2021-04-24 22:56:02
AAC(Apple/FHG) ~ 160kbps & MP3(Lame) ~ V1(225kbps).
Title: Re: 2021 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: doccolinni on 2021-05-12 10:22:48
Opus is my primary choice, although I'm still forced to frequently use MP3 as both my home and car stereo only support MP3 and WMA (remember WMA? 😂).
Title: Re: 2021 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: zezao on 2021-05-12 20:40:23
I returned recently to lossy, using Opus 256 kbps and keeping old MP3 V0 files.
Title: Re: 2021 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: peskypesky on 2021-05-12 23:58:47
I had been a LAME mp3 user for a long time, usually at 320CBR or 256VBR....but I switched 100% to AAC about a year ago.  I encode with CoreAudio 160k vbr most of the time. Sometimes I use 144k.

I have tried Ogg and Opus, but I use a lot of different devices to listen to music (Windows laptop, three DAP's, Android cellphone), and the aac is more widely supported.

My main encoder is fre:ac, but sometimes I use foobar2000, which is my main player as well.
Title: Re: 2021 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: ScarletNeko on 2021-05-19 15:05:11
I always try to keep what I got the way I got, so on my PC everything is lossless, but on my smartphone I adopted WavPack, on hybrid mode, as my main format for a while already. I just cap the bitrate of stuff beyond CD quality to around 1411kbps and on rare occasions, 1792kbps. So even tho it is lossy, it's not that lossy.
As for lower bitrate lossy I don't really have a favorite I guess, on a few tests I made I did liked Musepack results, but more recently I was trying WMA10 (WMA Pro, made with Windows Media Encoder x64) and it did surprised me, so probably if there is a day I need to go low bitrate lossy I might use WMA because I really liked the results.

As for this
GoneMAD player supports all the formats in the Poll.  I'm uninstalling Poweramp player.
there has been some discussion on the Poweramp foruns about exhale aac, and people doesn't seem to be that interested in it, but it might get support for it in the future simply because it is an audio player after all. You might find other players with support for it already but I doubt you will find anything with the quality Poweramp has. Tho as such low bitrates that might start to get irrelevant anyway
Title: Re: 2021 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: ani_Jackal3 on 2021-05-31 09:16:29
GoneMAD player supports all the formats in the Poll.  I'm uninstalling Poweramp player.

How Is xHE AAC working on GoneMAD?, It just says "File does not work". If you're gonna claim something maybe explain more?. It madness that xHE AAC was green lit without a working decoder to use it outside Foobar on PC.
Title: Re: 2021 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: guruboolez on 2021-05-31 12:09:12
GoneMAD player supports all the formats in the Poll.  I'm uninstalling Poweramp player.

How Is xHE AAC working on GoneMAD?, It just says "File does not work". If you're gonna claim something maybe explain more?. It madness that xHE AAC was green lit without a working decoder to use it outside Foobar on PC.
What Android version do you have?
On my side, Gone MAD is working fine with my Exhale library on an Android 10 Tablet and Android 10 phone. It also worked fine on the 14 days trial version.
IIRC Android 9 and above is needed for native USAC support.
Title: Re: 2021 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: soundping on 2021-05-31 15:57:27
GoneMAD player supports all the formats in the Poll.  I'm uninstalling Poweramp player.

How Is xHE AAC working on GoneMAD?, It just says "File does not work". If you're gonna claim something maybe explain more?. It madness that xHE AAC was green lit without a working decoder to use it outside Foobar on PC.
Works on mine.
Galaxy 8, Android 9
USAC works in SBR and non-SBR.
Title: Re: 2021 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: dave_swanson on 2021-06-01 04:25:36
Vorbis at quality level 6 (192khz) for the phone because Vorbis is an opensource format and I get full band frequency response up to 22khz not that I can hear it mind you.  I would prefer the OPUS codec as a memory space saver but it is all about reading the replaygain tags.  I use the Android "Neutron" music player application on the phone and it seems it does not read OPUS replaygain metadata the way it should so I use the Vorbis codec instead. I have a wifi streamer and I cast audio with the phone and it eventually outputs to a fiber link to the stereo receiver. I just use standard Vorbis not the aoTuV version. 
Title: Re: 2021 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: erick128 on 2021-06-01 22:10:34
LAME MP3 @ V5 because it still works.
Title: Re: 2021 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: ani_Jackal3 on 2021-06-02 07:43:14
GoneMAD player supports all the formats in the Poll.  I'm uninstalling Poweramp player.

How Is xHE AAC working on GoneMAD?, It just says "File does not work". If you're gonna claim something maybe explain more?. It madness that xHE AAC was green lit without a working decoder to use it outside Foobar on PC.
Works on mine.
Galaxy 8, Android 9
USAC works in SBR and non-SBR.

Sorry If a little edgy since Amazon apps was a nightmare. I don't think mine has Android 9, But it played 1 song before refusing to play other 2. I don't like how Opus VBR has bit rate bloat on ambient content, At 182kbps if encode some ambient the average bit rate is 195 ~ 225kbps. Yet Exhale/QAAC/FHG at 192kbps = 75 ~ 155kbps.



Title: Re: 2021 Format poll [Lossy Formats]
Post by: doccolinni on 2021-06-03 18:51:10
I would prefer the OPUS codec as a memory space saver but it is all about reading the replaygain tags. I use the Android "Neutron" music player application on the phone and it seems it does not read OPUS replaygain metadata the way it should so I use the Vorbis codec instead.
That would probably be because OPUS, according to its technical specs, does not actually support the ReplayGain Vorbis comment tags as supported and used in both OGG and FLAC formats (REPLAYGAIN_TRACK_GAIN, REPLAYGAIN_ALBUM_GAIN, etc.). Some players/firmwares will use these tags for volume normalisation if the OPUS file has them (e.g. Rockbox does), but it is not standard.

Instead of ReplayGain, OPUS supports the EBU-R128 standard for volume normalisation (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc7845#section-5.2.1) and uses the Vorbis comment tags R128_TRACK_GAIN and R128_ALBUM_GAIN for that purpose.

Note also, however, that foobar2000 will use the OPUS ID header's 'output gain' field to set the album gain instead of the R128_ALBUM_GAIN Vorbis comment tag.
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