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Topic: Channel Mixer (foo_channel_mixer) (Read 533764 times) previous topic - next topic
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Channel Mixer (foo_channel_mixer)

Reply #325 –
An option to disable normalization in Matrix Mixer would be great. Keep up the good work!

Channel Mixer (foo_channel_mixer)

Reply #326 –
I thought the user has not to take care of the normalization. If the sum is 2.7 (like in your example) your plugin will divide each cell by 2.7.

Is this correct?
What is the effect of a negative value?

Channel Mixer (foo_channel_mixer)

Reply #327 –
Negative values means phase shifting....i'm correct??

Channel Mixer (foo_channel_mixer)

Reply #328 –
Quote
If the sum is 2.7 (like in your example) your plugin will divide each cell by 2.7. Is this correct?

Yes, it is.
Quote
What is the effect of a negative value?

"Sum" is the sum of absolute values, i.e. abs(-1)+abs(1)=2

Quote
Negative values means phase shifting....i'm correct??

Slightly inexact. Phase will be shifted by 180 degrees, i.e. inverted.
My English is very good!
...in comparison with my Korean language...

Channel Mixer (foo_channel_mixer)

Reply #329 –
"Phase will be shifted by 180 degrees, i.e. inverted". I know. This is i try to say. The word are: inverted.

Channel Mixer (foo_channel_mixer)

Reply #330 –
AlleyMan gave a link to a Wikipedia-article on Dolby Pro Logic II matrices. This is currently not realisible with your plugin due to shifts of 90° is not possible, is it?

This is not of much intereset to me - I'm asking just out of curiosity.

Channel Mixer (foo_channel_mixer)

Reply #331 –
"shifts of 90°" ....mmmm...i think some like this don't exist..

You are a good reader Chaser??

You can only inverting (180°) a phase. Which means inverts the amplitude of a wave signal. Changes its "polarity" (- or +).

You can probe this in SoundForge which shows you a graphical mode of a sound wave.

Channel Mixer (foo_channel_mixer)

Reply #332 –
Quote from: Chaser on
AlleyMan gave a link to a Wikipedia-article on Dolby Pro Logic II matrices. This is currently not realisible with your plugin due to shifts of 90° is not possible, is it?

This is not of much intereset to me - I'm asking just out of curiosity.


I realized the same drawback but thought maybe, just maybe, it was possible using some smart values. Doesn't matter anymore as I found an actual Prologic II wrapper for foobar (though it sounds worse than channel mixer to my ears).

Channel Mixer (foo_channel_mixer)

Reply #333 –
You better want to understand this: Dolby Pro Logic II isn't for stereo listening, its decoding works only for re-construct a multichannel system (5.1) from an stereo source . Dolby Pro Logic II is only for multispeaker listening.

Means: Dolby Pro Logic II sounds terribly bad in 2.0...without decoding to 5.1.

I don't like to hear music with phase shifting.

Channel Mixer (foo_channel_mixer)

Reply #334 –
And you better want to understand this: 2.0 -(channel mixer/prologic)-> 5.1 -(Dolby Headphone)-> 2.0 (As Ive said in my original post that I want to use this with the Dolby Headphone plugin).

Channel Mixer (foo_channel_mixer)

Reply #335 –
OK.
I don't understand what you doing this "2.0 -(channel mixer/prologic)-> 5.1 -(Dolby Headphone)-> 2.0". There is some kind of probe?

Before you did this "chain" of plugins, you did a stereo ProLogic II downmixing from an 5.1 source?
In this case, what you intend to gain with this kind of deform over the sound???

I'm asking just out of curiosity.

Channel Mixer (foo_channel_mixer)

Reply #336 –
No, I have a pure 2.0 source. Dolby Headphone is a plugin to mimic room reverb but works best with a 5.1 source rather than a 2.0 source. Thus I needed to upconvert my 2.0 to 5.1 using either Channel mixer/Marix Mixer/Prologic.

Channel Mixer (foo_channel_mixer)

Reply #337 –
And why Prologic if you have a pure 2.0 source?

To doing upmix you should use Channel mixer, Matrix Mixer,...ATSurround plugin maybe.

And for reverbs you can use Vst plugins.
 

Channel Mixer (foo_channel_mixer)

Reply #338 –
I find V.I to be the best plugin to upmix stereo to 5.1. I've analyzed it a bit (default settings):
  • FL and FR are left unaltered.
  • FC is a simple 50/50 mix of FL and FR with an attenuation of 4.5 dB
  • The real magic is in the rear channels. The plugin does a tremendous job of extracting just the right portions of the FL/FR channels without producing any strange artifacts.
Usage instructions can be found in the Dolby Headphone thread.

Channel Mixer (foo_channel_mixer)

Reply #339 –
I tried VI, but both the VST host plugins available for foobar dont output 6 channels. I confirmed this on my install by using the converter with the only the VI DSP enabled and opening up the resultant wave file in audacity (came out stereo).

Could you kindly do the same test too? I'd like to know if its just me.

Channel Mixer (foo_channel_mixer)

Reply #340 –
The Vst wrappers for Foobar are only stereo.

Now, you can put reverb before convert the stereo signal to 5.1...

Channel Mixer (foo_channel_mixer)

Reply #341 –
No, 5.1 output works fine with foo_dsp_vst. But (like described in the DH thread) you first have to create a six channel input by using Channel Mixer (6 channels, Upmix off). V.I then fills the added empty channels with its data.

Here's a screenshot as proof.

Channel Mixer (foo_channel_mixer)

Reply #342 –
Quote from: bertox on
"shifts of 90°" ....mmmm...i think some like this don't exist..

You are a good reader Chaser??

You can only inverting (180°) a phase. Which means inverts the amplitude of a wave signal. Changes its "polarity" (- or +).

You can probe this in SoundForge which shows you a graphical mode of a sound wave.



bertox, in fact I have some knowledge on how wave signals can be described. That's why it is mathematical possible to shift the wave by whatever amount of degress you like. A shift by pi is for example 180°. If you have a sinus-wave the amplitude is inverted. If you shift a sinus bei 90° the output depends "where" on the sinus you currently are.

May be you should have a look on this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_%28waves%29

Channel Mixer (foo_channel_mixer)

Reply #343 –
Quote from: Hancoque on
No, 5.1 output works fine with foo_dsp_vst. But (like described in the DH thread) you first have to create a six channel input by using Channel Mixer (6 channels, Upmix off). V.I then fills the added empty channels with its data.

Here's a screenshot as proof.


Aha...thanks for that. If that trick was mentioned somewhere in the DH thread I obviously overlooked it. Now to get this thread back on track. Sorry for the hi-jack.

Channel Mixer (foo_channel_mixer)

Reply #344 –
@Chaser:

Really i don't like fighting with you to see who has more knowledge of physics and mathematics on phase shifting....i'm not this kind of person...

BTW, I'm just saying that who works with audio (like me) only knows two ways of phase shifting: positive or negative.

I really don't believe that the working audio applications, for music...not for scientific, use other phase shifting styles at all.

And...i don't see a place in ANY Matrix Mixer software for doing "strange" phase shifting.

Channel Mixer (foo_channel_mixer)

Reply #345 –
Why can't I change foobar's volume if this component is active?

Channel Mixer (foo_channel_mixer)

Reply #346 –
bertox, I didn't want to start an arguement. I don't konw much about audio-editing. What I wrote was just, what I know on the topic from a math point of view.

Channel Mixer (foo_channel_mixer)

Reply #347 –
ok. And i asummed that in this forum only talks about audio...and not physical or mathematical possibilities.

@byterhythm:

What version of Foobar you have?? I have the last and working without problems.

Try uninstall and re-install.

Greetngs.

Channel Mixer (foo_channel_mixer)

Reply #348 –
Quote
AlleyMan gave a link to a Wikipedia-article on Dolby Pro Logic II matrices. This is currently not realisible with your plugin due to shifts of 90° is not possible, is it?

Neither CM nor MM can't do this. AFAIK (mmm... as far as Google know  ), to shift phase by +-90° it is necessary to apply Hilbert transform, which use FFT, but I don't like FFT

Quote
Why can't I change foobar's volume if this component is active?

  It's very-very strange. Please tell more about the problem - what steps to reproduce this bug.

Quote
ok. And i asummed that in this forum only talks about audio...and not physical or mathematical possibilities.

IMHO, some theory would not be superfluous. For example, I'm not DSP professional, it is my hobby, and some kind of maths is too difficult to me.
My English is very good!
...in comparison with my Korean language...

Channel Mixer (foo_channel_mixer)

Reply #349 –
Quote from: Hancoque on
I find V.I to be the best plugin to upmix stereo to 5.1. I've analyzed it a bit (default settings):
  • FL and FR are left unaltered.
  • FC is a simple 50/50 mix of FL and FR with an attenuation of 4.5 dB
  • The real magic is in the rear channels. The plugin does a tremendous job of extracting just the right portions of the FL/FR channels without producing any strange artifacts.
Usage instructions can be found in the Dolby Headphone thread.


OMG it's sounds perfect! exactly what i was looking for! thanx!!