Skip to main content

Notice

Please note that most of the software linked on this forum is likely to be safe to use. If you are unsure, feel free to ask in the relevant topics, or send a private message to an administrator or moderator. To help curb the problems of false positives, or in the event that you do find actual malware, you can contribute through the article linked here.
Topic: "exact audio ripping" (Read 3675 times) previous topic - next topic
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

"exact audio ripping"

In my humble opinion exact audio ripping is a feature that must be primarily implemented in firmware. I think the audio ripping community needs emphasize this point to optical drive manufacturers.  As far as I know, it is possible to using error detection routines, C1 and C2, to accurately detect inaccurate cd data. Therefore it is possible for a combination of hardware and software to accurately determine if a rip is or is not accurate.  It is also possible using hardware and software to extract audio data from any conceivable copy protection method used by compact discs. However I suspect that accurately determining whether a copy protected rip was accurately copied is not possible.

This seems to be what is happening with plextor and their plextools software. Liteon was beating them in almost every respect, and one feature plextor seems to be working on to retain their loyal audio ripping customers is exact audio ripping, and the defeation of copy protection mechanisms. Unfortunately it seems they are going about this in a proprietary manner.  Which seems like a slap in the face to their non-European customers considering the fact that they will be releasing this same software to non-European customers with new drives. I just hope that exact audio ripping and copy protection defeation will become an important drive feature the same way as rediculously high burning speeds have become an important feature.

"exact audio ripping"

Reply #1
The problem is that most users don't care about accuracy but speed so the companies see this as a meaningles investsment.
Plextor can do this because of the huge profit they get from their overpriced drives.

C1 errors can be corrected so there is no point in using them for detecting inacurrate data or audio.
most drives can't hanlde C2 100% accurately so there's also no point in using it, is like thinking I'm 90% sure I got a clean rip.

Rom is very expensive and companies try not to bloat their firmware adding features 1% of the users use. And drives don't have temporary memory so the most they would do when they find a bad block is report (which they do already) or enter and endless loop rereading the damaged sector.
"You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you."

"exact audio ripping"

Reply #2
Quote
Rom is very expensive and companies try not to bloat their firmware adding features 1% of the users use. And drives don't have temporary memory so the most they would do when they find a bad block is report (which they do already) or enter and endless loop rereading the damaged sector.

1. rom is not expensive. even flash isn't these days.

2. you mean 2MBs of onboard cache is not enough for error correction? 

"exact audio ripping"

Reply #3
1. Ok, I was wrong
2. Isn't the cache being used for the ripping?

Hey, but it's good to be corrected, it's the best way to learn.
"You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you."

"exact audio ripping"

Reply #4
Thinking about the info Bobhere provided in EAC forum, I wonder more and more if the C2 inaccuracy is not just a side effect of the drive switching to better error correction algorithms when a scratch appears.

The more secure is the detection, the less errors can be corrected, and conversely.
When the CD is clean, there are very few errors to correct, the drive can use a secure C2 mode.
When the CD is damaged, some errors can't be corrected. The drive switches to a less secure C2 mode, that allows to correct much more errors, letting one or two slip through here and there, but correcting hundreds more in the meantime.

EDIT : I've just asked CDFreaks about this hypothesis : http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?s=...&threadid=67558

"exact audio ripping"

Reply #5
Quote
The problem is that most users don't care about accuracy but speed so the companies see this as a meaningles investsment.


I thought this too for a long time. But today I'd rather say that a lot of people just don't know about the problems which can occur when ripping a CD. I mean that most people would care about such issues if they would actually know that there's something to care about -> Ask someone who's not that much into using computers as most of HA's users are and they will tell you that a ripped CD is always a 100% clone of the original. The music industry is always talking about perfect copys which everyone with a computer could do easily. Or just mind the names of some copy tools, for example clonecd, normal users will just think that they can make perfect copys of their audio CDs -> the programs name is cloncd so it will clone my CDs!

Most people don't care about quality when ripping their CDs because noone (neither human nor most ripping apps) tells them that there can actually be a lot of problems when reading a CD. Think of the hype most computer magazines produce with their articles about CD copying :x .

"exact audio ripping"

Reply #6
On the other hand, people are always asking "what is the best drive" before buying. And the answer can come from sites like CDRlabs, CDRinfo, or CDFreaks whose experts brag the good quality of Plextor, Lite-On, Teac and Yamaha drives...
In 1998 when I didn't have a clue about the difference between an audio cd and a CD ROM, I already heard that Plextor were making good drives. Once the reputation of a brand is good, peple who care about buying the best quality, even if they don't need or use it, will try to find it, just because "they heard it's good".

"exact audio ripping"

Reply #7
Quote
On the other hand, people are always asking "what is the best drive" before buying


I agree, but a lot of people buy prebuild computers from bigger vendors where you often get cheap (read: 'not so good drives'). Well, most people aren't stupid, so once they know what's up they will surely care (at least a little bit) about "exact audio ripping"...

 
SimplePortal 1.0.0 RC1 © 2008-2021