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Topic: I wish one day ... (Read 5738 times) previous topic - next topic
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I wish one day ...

Reply #1 –
I'd like to watch the vid but it isn't loading and I have QuickTime Alternative and Real Alternative installed.

I wish one day ...

Reply #3 –
Do you have a flash plug-in (and activated) Andavari?

It looks like advertising to me, from the style of the video.
Sadly, I can't read a single letter.

I wish one day ...

Reply #4 –
Quote from: Andavari on
I'd like to watch the vid but it isn't loading and I have QuickTime Alternative and Real Alternative installed.

its a flash video. You should have some sort of flash plugin/player.

It is advertising, but what i understand from the video, without understanding the writing, is that a all people (represented by judish and iranians?) people can be friends.

I wish one day ...

Reply #5 –
Quote from: Hollunder on
Do you have a flash plug-in (and activated) Andavari?

I've got Flash installed and activated for Firefox. I didn't think of it but maybe it's because of my security configuration.

I wish one day ...

Reply #6 –
As long as people have to fight for resources (all kinds of them, also territory) there will be no peace.
I am arrogant and I can afford it because I deliver.

I wish one day ...

Reply #7 –
In fact they're just abusing everyone's wish to live in peace. It's like "Use our services/buy our products and there will be peace". If you reverse it, you can read that as a threat: "If you don't buy our product there will be war".
It seems to me like a (well done) ad for a communication company and i wouldn't be surprised if they had big money flowing from the middle-east conflict(s).
It's a common strategy to influence people's emotions to achieve something. This is a good example.
Maybe i'm too cynic or just hate commercials, i don't know... But i'm sure companies won't achieve the world peace.

I wish one day ...

Reply #8 –
I'm going to go out on a bit of a flamebait limb here and say something that I've been noticing for quite a while: Islam as practiced by Arabs seems to be a destabilizing force in the world. Bush's hypocritical Christianity isn't much better, unfortunately. Any religious teaching that justifies killing is utter garbage.

I welcome calm responses; I understand this opinion is somewhat contentious, and I am intrigued to hear others' opinions on what I've said.

I wish one day ...

Reply #9 –
Quote from: Canar on
I'm going to go out on a bit of a flamebait limb here and say something that I've been noticing for quite a while: Islam as practiced by Arabs seems to be a destabilizing force in the world. Bush's hypocritical Christianity isn't much better, unfortunately. Any religious teaching that justifies killing is utter garbage.


Cause and effect........ you seriosly threaten a culture, and it will radicalise.

The west is the agitator here....... but responsible in the end are both.

As for destabilization....... try this: research which country in the world did the most invasions in the last 100 years.
I am arrogant and I can afford it because I deliver.
 

I wish one day ...

Reply #10 –
Quote from: Lyx on
Cause and effect........ you seriosly threaten a culture, and it will radicalise.


How did the USA's presence seriously threaten Arab culture? Before 9/11, it seemed pretty content to stay out of the Middle-East...

I wish one day ...

Reply #12 –
Quote
How did the USA's presence seriously threaten Arab culture? Before 9/11, it seemed pretty content to stay out of the Middle-East...

If you ignore the Israel-Palestinian conflict and the Iran-Iraq war, perhaps you would be right. It seems more like the US is not content staying out of anyone's business.

Quote
Islam as practiced by Arabs seems to be a destabilizing force in the world.

This is such an overgeneralization that it is pointless to even argue about. The comment does fit neatly in USAn style black-and-white politics (republican vs democrat, liberal vs conservative, "if you're not with us, you're against us"), where it seems it is impossible to imagine that are more sides to a story than just two. Or am I just overgeneralizing now?
"We cannot win against obsession. They care, we don't. They win."

I wish one day ...

Reply #13 –
Quote from: stephanV on
This is such an overgeneralization that it is pointless to even argue about. The comment does fit neatly in USAn style black-and-white politics (republican vs democrat, liberal vs conservative, "if you're not with us, you're against us"), where it seems it is impossible to imagine that are more sides to a story than just two. Or am I just overgeneralizing now?


Maybe it's just Middle-east politics, but that whole area doesn't seem to value human life much at all. That's the generalization I was getting at.

I dunno; my knowledge of history is quite limited here, and that's one of the reasons I was posing these questions. I do, however, have a rather intimate knowledge of the religion involved. I realize there are gray areas, but when Arabs start coming up with political parties that call themselves the "Party of God" (Hizballah) and advocate the killing of others, I start to get frightened. Combine that with the current unity of church and state in Iran, a situation that Western society knows from experience to be flawed...

I'm also considering Arab-Islamic interpretation of law, and the massive human rights violations against women that were occurring in Afghanistan even before the invasion (it hasn't helped much).

There's the current situation in Iraq, where Sunnis and Shiites are killing each other over obscure eschatological differences that don't have any grounding in reality outside of Qur'anic interpretation...

Finally, the nail in the coffin (IMO) is the low level of Muslim condemnation of this behaviour.

I mean, I know several Muslims. In the Western world, they're quite civilized. But why does everything go off the deep end in the Middle-east?

I wish one day ...

Reply #14 –
Quote
Maybe it's just Middle-east politics, but that whole area doesn't seem to value human life much at all. That's the generalization I was getting at.

And the generalization is so obviously false that there is no point in arguing about it. But I have some time.

Quote
I dunno; my knowledge of history is quite limited here, and that's one of the reasons I was posing these questions. I do, however, have a rather intimate knowledge of the religion involved.

You cannot have an intimate knowledge of Islam without having an intimate knowledge of it's history and of the history of the Middle east.

Quote
realize there are gray areas, but when Arabs start coming up with political parties that call themselves the "Party of God" (Hizballah) and advocate the killing of others, I start to get frightened. Combine that with the current unity of church and state in Iran, a situation that Western society knows from experience to be flawed...

Hey, I believe in the US they have organisations like the KKK, NRA and a lot of wacky Christian movements. Should I therefor condemn every US citizen as racist, or whatever?

Quote
I'm also considering Arab-Islamic interpretation of law, and the massive human rights violations against women that were occurring in Afghanistan even before the invasion (it hasn't helped much).

The existence of human rights in the west (certainly that of women and minorities) are something of the last 50 (maybe even less) years (remember Martin L. King, remember South-Africa?). And right now, women are still not considered equal to men (check their salaries in equal jobs). And you want them to make the step that is taking us for so long already (and mind you a step that we still have not fully taken), just in a few months? It is not going to happen.

Quote
There's the current situation in Iraq, where Sunnis and Shiites are killing each other over obscure eschatological differences that don't have any grounding in reality outside of Qur'anic interpretation...

Hey, let's take a look at Northern-Ireland for a moment, reminds you of something? Hmmm...

Quote
Finally, the nail in the coffin (IMO) is the low level of Muslim condemnation of this behaviour.

Why should a muslim feel responsible for what a few idiots who call themselves muslims do? Why do we blame a group of hundreds of million people for what a minority is doing? If we cannot bring ourselves to see the difference, then perhaps we are not yet as civilized as you think.
"We cannot win against obsession. They care, we don't. They win."

I wish one day ...

Reply #15 –
Quote
Finally, the nail in the coffin (IMO) is the low level of Muslim condemnation of this behaviour.

I am not certain if you get your info from massmedia or directly from affected people. I do however know, that i prefer to get my info directly from affected people (blogs, comms, interviews, etc.) and my impression is that the people in the affected areas have a way more balanced and *well-informed* idea of whats going on, than most US-citizens. I mean - crap, often when reading their stories i have the impression that they know our culture, law-systems and history better than we do ourselves! And this is with them being the ones which are directly (war) affected.

I'd propose you to scout various middle-east blogs on the web as well as interviews...... then imagine a war would be happening IN the US by an agressor way more powerful than the US in theory..... and ask yourself how us-citizens would react in such a situation...... then compare this with middle-east blogs and interviews.

Oh, and - as for human rights and gender equally...... lets take iraq for example......i'll keep it short:

before the US started the middle-east offensive: +4
now: -8

Or in other words - the US bombed them back into the middle-age regarding freedom of the individual. Thus, the US managed to cause more damage in 2 years, than sadam in his entire lifetime.

Regarding religion. It is worth researching the idea of Faith and Beliefs in a broader sense. If you do that - and follow it through even if what you find out becomes very unpleasant....... then you may come to the conclusion, that the west is not that much different regarding beliefs and faith. It's just that in the west it isn't so much religion anymore which is responsible for our beliefs - but unfortunatelly, that doesn't mean that we've left such behaviour behind us - more like the opposite.......

One more thing: since centuries it has been the case that during war, that each side would try to make the opponent look like worthless barbarians. This hasn't changed the slightest bit in the 21th Century.

- Lyx
I am arrogant and I can afford it because I deliver.

I wish one day ...

Reply #16 –
Quote from: Canar on
Combine that with the current unity of church and state in Iran, a situation that Western society knows from experience to be flawed...

Examples of countries without separation between State and Church in the "western society":
UK
Finland
Spain
Greece

not that separated ("grey" area):
USA
Germany
Ireland

To many outside observer, something along "God bless America" is quite shocking, and seems to be a first step toward cruisades/Jihad.

I wish one day ...

Reply #17 –
Ever heard of inquinsition ? Some people are just hiding behind their religion to achieve their goals, no matter what the cost.

Probably offtopic, but recently i had a conversation with an old Jew from Israel. He moved there in 1948 and told me an interesting (and a bit funny) thing: "In 1949 when we shot, Arabs ran away. Now they shoot back...". I am not sure what he meant to say (he had a bad english), but it made me laugh. Probably he was one of the 'radicals'.

I wish one day ...

Reply #18 –
Quote from: molnart on
(...) It's like "Use our services/buy our products and there will be peace". If you reverse it, you can read that as a threat: "If you don't buy our product there will be war".

Hold on a sec. The logic is flawed. You can't "reverse" it like that. The only implication that follows by the first implication is: "If there's no peace then nobody is using our products"