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Topic: HTML standards, non-compliant browsers, webdesign (Read 8926 times) previous topic - next topic
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HTML standards, non-compliant browsers, webdesign

Reply #25 –
Quote
Originally posted by JohnV
Ehh, Frank? Did you perhaps drink few beers too many?


No, EBCDIC is more k3wl than ASCII. Why I should use ASCII,
EBCDIC is also a standard. You can read it using Netscape with the
EBCDIC plugin ;&
--  Frank Klemm

HTML standards, non-compliant browsers, webdesign

Reply #26 –
Quote
Originally posted by CiTay


I understand that it can be frustrating to search for words in a foreign language. But you have to try; this is the internet, after all. Many valuable places are english only, and rightfully so. This is the only language that almost everyone has basic skills in. Broken english is tolerated, you don't have to be perfect.

What seems strange to me (as a native English speaker) is when somebody who doesn't speak english natively apologizes "Sorry for my bad English."  It happens often, and I always want to ask "what the hell are you apologizing for?"  If I can understand it (99.999% of the time I can) then the English is just fine!

BTW, to Frank: "Poor" English is much better for a native English speaker, than having to translate German to English using Babelfish... which is *always* much worse...    Whether it's better for you is another matter, but unless addressing yourself in the mirror (or only native German speakers), it does matter to others.

HTML standards, non-compliant browsers, webdesign

Reply #27 –
Quote
Originally posted by fewtch

What seems strange to me (as a native English speaker) is when somebody who doesn't speak english natively apologizes "Sorry for my bad English."  It happens often, and I always want to ask "what the hell are you apologizing for?"  If I can understand it (99.999% of the time I can) then the English is just fine! 

BTW, to Frank: "Poor" English is much better for a native English speaker, than having to translate German to English using Babelfish... which is *always* much worse...    Whether it's better for you is another matter, but unless addressing yourself in the mirror (or only native German speakers), it does matter to others.


The background is that it is unpolite in the same way to write a webpage
with special HTML/Java/Javascript in a way so it is technical impossible to
display it in a usable way with older web clients (browsers) than writing
text in German/French/Spain/Arabian/Japanese.

The term "Update your Browser" is the same as "Learn German/French/Spain".

You should very conservative when writing HTML code. This is necessary when you
want to disclose people from reading your webpage. Hubert Partl form
the University of Vienna wrote a  good (but in German)  article about this
problem.

You should use English when you want to reach most of the people on this board.

There's a similarity between technical languages and natural languages.
--  Frank Klemm

HTML standards, non-compliant browsers, webdesign

Reply #28 –
Quote
Originally posted by Frank Klemm


The background is that it is unpolite in the same way to write a webpage 
with special HTML/Java/Javascript in a way so it is technical impossible to
display it in a usable way with older web clients (browsers) than writing
text in German/French/Spain/Arabian/Japanese.


A) If, for any case, I use .png images in a website, I am against he HTML idea? (.png format is not supported by all browsers).
B) If I use frames, I am against the HTML idea? ( yes, you know that there were browsers, very old, that didn't support frames)
C) If I use ANY javascript in a page, I am against the HTML idea? (people used to disable javascript code in case of flaws in the implementation that could cause harm)
D) If I use DHTML, I am against the HTML idea? (more and more, documents are dynamic, but you know that Netscape 4 doesn't work well with it, because it is old)
E) If I target a specific group of people, I am against the HTML idea? (It's my personal page, and I tend to talk with people using Windows)


Quote
Originally posted by Frank Klemm

The term "Update your Browser" is the same as "Learn German/French/Spain".

You should very conservative when writing HTML code. This is necessary when you
want to disclose people from reading your webpage. Hubert Partl form
the University of Vienna wrote a  good (but in German)  article about this
problem.

You should use English when you want to reach most of the people on this board.

There's a similarity between technical languages and natural languages.


At last, remember that HTML is just "a definition of a layout of how a document should be shown". Whom is the fault when something correctly defined and standarized, is not correctly shown?

If you lost your time trying to access that page, and the contents of it, because the browser didn't understood the HTML page, then, next time I advertise my page (which will be few times), I will advise about this.

HTML standards, non-compliant browsers, webdesign

Reply #29 –
I gotta back up JAZ here. If he chooses to use DHTML, JavaScript and some IE specific quirks for his personal (emphasis on this) website, he shall do so. He doesn't need to follow a duty to make it work in everyone's browser. Afterall this is not a corporate portal like Yahoo is.

HTML standards, non-compliant browsers, webdesign

Reply #30 –
Quote
Originally posted by Frank Klemm
The term "Update your Browser" is the same as "Learn German/French/Spain".
Yeah, and if you live in France you should try to learn the language in order to properly communicate with almost all the people there. Similarly you should update your browser to a properly working, compliant browser in the internet world.

If you don't want to communicate properly, then it's up to you...
Fortunately there's a very simple and fast solution in the Internet world: you just install Mozilla 1.x.

It's also very unpolite that mppenc doesn't work in an IBM XT from 1982... Somebody might still be using one...
Juha Laaksonheimo

HTML standards, non-compliant browsers, webdesign

Reply #31 –
Quote
A) If, for any case, I use .png images in a website, I am against he HTML idea? (.png format is not supported by all browsers).


Hmm, tough one, but it's probably not so nice. You could at least provide .gif images as an alternative.

Quote
B) If I use frames, I am against the HTML idea? ( yes, you know that there were browsers, very old, that didn't support frames)


No, because there's a NOFRAMES tag. Use that, so old browsers can view your pages as well. Don't put only 'your browser doesn't support frames' in there.

Quote
C) If I use ANY javascript in a page, I am against the HTML idea? (people used to disable javascript code in case of flaws in the implementation that could cause harm)


Again, there's a NOSCRIPT tag. Also, be very careful with Javascript, since a lot of people have it turned off, so you might chase away readers.

Quote
D) If I use DHTML, I am against the HTML idea? (more and more, documents are dynamic, but you know that Netscape 4 doesn't work well with it, because it is old)


Opera also doesn't do DHTML (is it a W3C standard?), and that has a user base of 5-10% depending on who you ask.

E) If I target a specific group of people, I am against the HTML idea? (It's my personal page, and I tend to talk with people using Windows)

Of course not, you're free to do what you want. But if you intend to make a webpage for general useage, using the standards of the w3c, and then testing on all modern browsers (at least IE, Mozilla and Opera) and a text only browser (Lynx) is good style. That way, you know most people can read it, which is what the web is for. But of course you can disregard all this, and make a site that everyone you care about can view, if that's what you want.