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Topic: exhale - Open Source xHE-AAC encoder (Read 93509 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: exhale - Open Source xHE-AAC encoder

Reply #750
Thanks Jurgga, you are too fast, with the tests it is better to be slower; I just wanted to replace the 38.4kHz sub-sampling with 44.1kHz or 32kHz. I must admit that I have never found such fast feedback in any commercial software.

I tried to compare the same podcast at 12kbps CBR, the lowest bitrate for stereo signals and the result is impressive, the whole podcast takes up only 1MB, and I'm sure we can still refine the perceived quality. The preview of Extended HE-AAC in Safari is played at lower quality, download the file and listen it in the Terminal with the command afplay -q 1 filename.m4a.

il_podio_dei_campioni-stereo-12kbps.m4a

il_podio_dei_campioni-stereo-12kbps.opus

I added the compressed version with Opus because I'm sure some people care.

Re: exhale - Open Source xHE-AAC encoder

Reply #751
Thanks Jurgga, you are too fast, with the tests it is better to be slower; I just wanted to replace the 38.4kHz sub-sampling with 44.1kHz or 32kHz. I must admit that I have never found such fast feedback in any commercial software.

I tried to compare the same podcast at 12kbps CBR, the lowest bitrate for stereo signals and the result is impressive, the whole podcast takes up only 1MB, and I'm sure we can still refine the perceived quality. The preview of Extended HE-AAC in Safari is played at lower quality, download the file and listen it in the Terminal with the command:
Code: [Select]
afplay -q 1 filename.m4a
il_podio_dei_campioni-stereo-12kbps.m4a

il_podio_dei_campioni-stereo-12kbps.opus

I added the compressed version with Opus because I'm sure some people care.


Re: exhale - Open Source xHE-AAC encoder

Reply #753
They tend to offer similar results at high bitrates, going down the Fraunhofer uses half the data or maybe less for similar results.


Re: exhale - Open Source xHE-AAC encoder

Reply #755
Playback goes smooth when I seek USAC files produced by EZ CD Audio Converter with Foobar 1.6.5, fdk-acc packed decoder 1.17 and WASAPI Shared, whereas files produced by Exhale sound scratched for a second or two after changing playback position.

Re: exhale - Open Source xHE-AAC encoder

Reply #756
It is strange but also the behavior of the Fraunhofer encoder is not very predictable. In your examples Foobar reports the use of SBR only for Exhale. Compressing at higher bitrates with the Fraunhofer encoder sometimes produces worse results and files are resampled to 32kHz or 38.4kHz.
Could you please post or PM me some sample files created with FhG encoder? I do not have the funds available to buy it right now.

Re: exhale - Open Source xHE-AAC encoder

Reply #757
Hi, I created a full set of encodings for a single sample (all 7 VBR modes and all 27 CBR modes available in EZ CDDA Converter 9.3.1 Trial Mode — from 12 to 320 kbps).
The files that appears as SBR in foobar2000 1.65 and foo_pd_aac (1.17) are CBR 40-48-56-64 kbps and VBR 1 and 2 (cf screenshot).


P.S. the zip archive below only contains <128 kbps encodings.
The full set is available for a short time on a general hoster:
https://www34.zippyshare.com/v/YOX79EMS/file.html

Re: exhale - Open Source xHE-AAC encoder

Reply #758
Thanks for that. I've updated the packet decoder with full USAC SBR signaling detection, and support for all of the SBR ratios right now. I have also tested VBR0, and found it totally not annoying. I must be going deaf.

Re: exhale - Open Source xHE-AAC encoder

Reply #759
I have also tested VBR0, and found it totally not annoying. I must be going deaf.
Same impressions here  :-[
--------------------

Re: exhale - Open Source xHE-AAC encoder

Reply #760
Not deaf. Just... older.  :))

Re: exhale - Open Source xHE-AAC encoder

Reply #761
Can you post build 16d3fbac compiled for windows 64?
sorry if i asked too much.
But anyway i think even with build that uses more bitrate i won't use less than preset 6 if I want perfect sound.


exhale v1.1.0-c71ec480 is ok at preset 2.
For preset 1 v.1.0.3-41751381 is fine.
for sbr exhale 193dc268 preset e is good compared to 1.1.4 a-b

Re: exhale - Open Source xHE-AAC encoder

Reply #762
but I really need the build I mentioned exhale 193dc268 preset e to convert some songs

Re: exhale - Open Source xHE-AAC encoder

Reply #763
exhale v1.1.0-c71ec480 is ok at preset 2.
For preset 1 v.1.0.3-41751381 is fine.
for sbr exhale 193dc268 preset e is good compared to 1.1.4 a-b
Please don't recommend older versions of exhale, they may have bugs and/or cause seeking issues in some players. I recommend using version 1.1.4 or later. And the audio quality has not gotten worse with newer releases, trust me.

I just committed an exhale 1.1.5 release candidate containing the Unicode related fixes, the UNIVERSAL2 support in the makefile, and some other cleanups. If there are no issues with this release, I'll tag it as the final 1.1.5 release next weekend.

Playback goes smooth when I seek USAC files produced by EZ CD Audio Converter with Foobar 1.6.5, fdk-acc packed decoder 1.17 and WASAPI Shared, whereas files produced by Exhale sound scratched for a second or two after changing playback position.
That effect should be reduced a bit with this new release.

Chris
If I don't reply to your reply, it means I agree with you.


 

Re: exhale - Open Source xHE-AAC encoder

Reply #766
macOS builds, using UNIVERSAL2=1
Built April 24, 2021, Xcode 12.4

Re: exhale - Open Source xHE-AAC encoder

Reply #767
I made a quick and a bit dirty blind comparison between SBR and non-SBR settings at 48 and 64 kbps. Why dirty? There are no low and high anchor first, and the evaluation process was rather quick (1…3 minutes to rank all four encodings per samples in most cases).
The test is based on the same 40 musical samples I already used before (like here. There are four groups of 10 samples (10 various and random samples from Billboard charts, 10 samples from classical music, 10 samples I select from HA.io members library — and 10 samples already knows as critical or problem samples, with a strong emphasis on transients and pre-echo).

I used 1.1.4 version from april.

The final result looks like this:



In short, at 48 kbps and 64 kbps, there's no statistical evidence that SBR or non-SBR performs better.


But if I break the 40 selection into two different groups: 30 common musical samples and 10 critical samples, I get the following results:





Now it seems that common and representative samples are clearly performing better with SBR at both 48 and 64 kbps. On the other side SBR has a strong negative impact on the tested problem samples. This is not a surprise (SBR encodings have a lower time resolution and it leads to increased pre-echo). In other words, my opinion is that SBR should be prefered over non-SBR at 48 and 64 kbps with Exhale.

These results can also be compared to my personal test done last year between 32 KHz and 44 KHz at 64 kbps. 32 KHz was better to my taste. Today, Exhale with SBR probably sound as good if not better (with a plain and full frequency sound due to SBR).


NB : average bitrate is based on ~250 hours of music. Details here.

Re: exhale - Open Source xHE-AAC encoder

Reply #768
Great to have you back, Guruboolez! :) I was already waiting for such a "subjective crosscheck". Let's see what Kamedo2 comes up with in May. Meanwhile, some news regarding xHE-AAC playback in foobar2000:

- The newest foobar2000 1.6.6 release now features a graphical user interface for configuring exhale for conversion. Neat! Thanks again to Peter!
- The newest AAC packet decoder 1.19 supports 24-bit decoding and allows you to use foobar2000's excellent noise shaped dither during conversion/playback (very useful at 16-bit output). Neat as well! :) Thanks once again to Christopher!

Chris
If I don't reply to your reply, it means I agree with you.

Re: exhale - Open Source xHE-AAC encoder

Reply #769
Not just 24 bit output, 24 bit output with 7 bits of headroom for clipping. You can either choose to use ReplayGain tags to scale that back, or you can use the built-in peak limiter, which is once again set to -0.1 dB. Funny thing, I actually noticed a long track being a few points quieter, or rather, less severe ReplayGain correction, when the limiters were removed completely, and peaks were unclipped.

Re: exhale - Open Source xHE-AAC encoder

Reply #770
I made a quick and a bit dirty blind comparison between SBR and non-SBR settings at 48 and 64 kbps.

Excellent work. :)
I was just thinking today about the difference in quality between SBR vs standard mode, and I see that there is an answer already. :)
Nice.
WavPack v5.4 -b450hh

Re: exhale - Open Source xHE-AAC encoder

Reply #771
- The newest foobar2000 1.6.6 release now features a graphical user interface for configuring exhale for conversion. Neat! Thanks again to Peter!
- The newest AAC packet decoder 1.19 supports 24-bit decoding and allows you to use foobar2000's excellent noise shaped dither during conversion/playback (very useful at 16-bit output). Neat as well! :) Thanks once again to Christopher!

Not just 24 bit output, 24 bit output with 7 bits of headroom for clipping. You can either choose to use ReplayGain tags to scale that back, or you can use the built-in peak limiter, which is once again set to -0.1 dB.

That's really great!
On my side, I replaced my Samsung with a Poco X3 NFC. The embedded music player is playing Exhale and FhG xHE-AAC fine. I didn't encounter any issue with seeking. MX Player (which is rather a video player for Android) also works. Those apps are not as conveniant as foobar2000 mobile or Poweramp, but at least xHE-AAC starts to be really usable on mobile players.



Excellent work. :)
I was just thinking today about the difference in quality between SBR vs standard mode, and I see that there is an answer already. :)
Nice.
I'd like to go further and compare SBR and non SBR at 80 kbps (maybe 96 kbps, depending on 80 kbps results). I'm a bit annoyed though because presets don't totally match. Exhale "2" mode reachs 79,5 kbps on my large bitrate table. But on the SBR side "d" reachs 73,4 kbps and "e" 85,6 kbps. I guess I had to oppose "2" and "d". Any thoughts on this?

Re: exhale - Open Source xHE-AAC encoder

Reply #772
Excellent work. :)
I was just thinking today about the difference in quality between SBR vs standard mode, and I see that there is an answer already. :)
Nice.
I'd like to go further and compare SBR and non SBR at 80 kbps (maybe 96 kbps, depending on 80 kbps results). I'm a bit annoyed though because presets don't totally match. Exhale "2" mode reachs 79,5 kbps on my large bitrate table. But on the SBR side "d" reachs 73,4 kbps and "e" 85,6 kbps. I guess I had to oppose "2" and "d". Any thoughts on this?
I think that this is a good choice. As you discovered recently, SBR mode gives slightly better quality on low bitrate so choosing standard mode 2 vs mode d should be fair choice. Mode 2 will gain slight advantage in bitrate to compesate for slightly lower quality compared against sbr mode d. If mode d could keep up with 5-7 kbps lower bitrate to match, or even surpass mode 2 quality, than you get both quality and efficiency at slightly lower bitrate.
Should be interesting to see the results. :)
WavPack v5.4 -b450hh

Re: exhale - Open Source xHE-AAC encoder

Reply #773
- The newest AAC packet decoder 1.19 supports 24-bit decoding and allows you to use foobar2000's excellent noise shaped dither during conversion/playback (very useful at 16-bit output). Neat as well! :) Thanks once again to Christopher!

Not just 24 bit output, 24 bit output with 7 bits of headroom for clipping.
You rock my day!  :))

Does it mean that previously all xHE-AAC files were decoded in 16 bits even if 24 bits decoding was enabled in foobar2000?

P.S. Thanks to Guru for testing SBR.  I was waiting for such test  for some time already.  It's great to see SBR is useful at 60 kbps.



Re: exhale - Open Source xHE-AAC encoder

Reply #774
kode, do  you have that g94 RC for windows? even if is older than release. thanks

 
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