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Topic: Are lossless , well lossless? (Read 5911 times) previous topic - next topic
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Are lossless , well lossless?

I have listened to flac, apple lossless etc but they do not sound the same as my original cds (i burn them to cd then play through my amp).
Surely they are not lossless, i mean cd is compressed, the files from cd are smaller they must have lost some info. The fact that i can tell them apart says to me that something is being lost.

Are lossless , well lossless?

Reply #1 –
They are lossless.
You've had the misfortune of running into me.  I'm a life-wrecking idiot.

Are lossless , well lossless?

Reply #2 –
You are comparing the sound of the CDs played through the amp to the sound of the lossless files played through the PC?
If so, then what did you expect? There likely will be a difference.

If you are playing the files through the same sound system, and still claim to hear a difference, you ought to run bitcompare on a WAV and a lossless file to satisfy yourself.
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Surely they are not lossless, i mean cd is compressed, the files from cd are smaller they must have lost some info. The fact that i can tell them apart says to me that something is being lost.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=276175"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

ZIP files are compressed also, but they do not lose data. What they "lose" is redundancy; they are able to represent the exact same data in a more efficient manner.

Finally, beware violating TOS #8.
"Facts do not cease to exist just because they are ignored."
—Aldous Huxley

Are lossless , well lossless?

Reply #3 –
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They are lossless.
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I tested and your right a wav in is exactly the same as the wav out. I wonder why they sound different? My apple lossless to CD (i burn them and play through amp - no pc playback)were picked out by my wife and some friends everytime (i asked them to identify them as Sample A (original) or B (apple) they got 8/10 played correct (identified original)?

Any ideas?

Are lossless , well lossless?

Reply #4 –
Thank you for thoroughly reading Hydrogenaudio's Terms of Service. Thank you especially for paying attention to #8. As you've so meticulously adhered to our required behaviours, I've nothing left to say, as your problem has magically vanished.

Are lossless , well lossless?

Reply #5 –
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Thank you for thoroughly reading Hydrogenaudio's Terms of Service. Thank you especially for paying attention to #8. As you've so meticulously adhered to our required behaviours, I've nothing left to say, as your problem has magically vanished.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=276182"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


???? what are you on about?

Are lossless , well lossless?

Reply #6 –
Is it just me, or are there several new posts like this everyday now...
flac > schiit modi > schiit magni > hd650

Are lossless , well lossless?

Reply #7 –
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Is it just me, or are there several new posts like this everyday now...
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=276186"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I agree, but people need to learn at some point.  That's why this site is here.  To educate and share knowledge.  In my opinion, everyone deserves an equal chance to ask questions, no matter how trivial.  How the experienced respond is perhaps a measure of their character and credibility.

Are lossless , well lossless?

Reply #8 –
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???? what are you on about?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=276183"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


No, he wasn't being too nice, but what he's on about is simply this:

It can be easily verified - heck, you've already done it - that the lossless file's audio output is bit-by-bit identical to the original uncompressed PCM. Thus, it is no longer the fault of the format, but some configuration or hardware problem at your end. Not that problems can't happen of course, and indeed we keep open-minded to problems when one can provide sufficient evidence.

But in this case, the sample has been verified, by yourself of all people, to be identical, and thus likely problems can include: bad software decoder, not completely blind abx testing (were the testing done completely random, without any interference, without any hints?) Further, 8/10 is 5.5%, and is considered an inconclusive result for even non-intensive abxing. 8/8 isn't really too hard; it's 1 in 256. Usually, you want to get it under 1.0% in a preagreed amount of tries.

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Is it just me, or are there several new posts like this everyday now...
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=276186"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I wonder too. 'Course, we shouldn't be too hasty about making assumptions, but there are more of these posts in the last two weeks than my lurking for months... not that that's any long at all of course.

We need to provide objective evidence for the existence of trolls... or someone'll pull #8 on us  .
 

Are lossless , well lossless?

Reply #9 –
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We need to provide objective evidence for the existence of trolls... or someone'll pull #8 on us  .
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=276199"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


It has been looking kinda bad lately. But I still to think that we are getting trolls.
I think that compressed music is becoming even more popular, and that means we will bet more and more newbies. Some will be more "cooparative" than others, some will even think they know it all.

Now, to the original poster: Could you please provide a sample (30 seconds should be enough) of the problematic music? And could you please elaborate on the exact way you performed your blind test?

Maybe we can find what is the problem then.
I'm the one in the picture, sitting on a giant cabbage in Mexico, circa 1978.
Reseñas de Rock en Español: www.estadogeneral.com

Are lossless , well lossless?

Reply #10 –
I think if you use some green marker on the original cd, then it's magic won't be transferred during encoding, no matter what the bit-by-bit comparison says 
Life is Real...
(But not in audio :) )

Are lossless , well lossless?

Reply #11 –
@doomlordis
Why don't you just  compare the WAV and lossless yourself?

Steps to do:

1. Rip one track as WAV
2. Encode to lossless format and rename the lossless file to something like "lossless"
3. Decode lossless file to WAV

4. Do a CRC check or MD5 check on both WAV files.

It should be the same which means you ought not hear any difference - well if- i would suggest  a doctor
Else there must be some tempering with the file in the burn process, perhaps normalization etc.. I dont know how you burn.
And if you playback your lossless with the PC - well soundcard output may differ or you might have an equalizer running.

But anyhow - lossless speaks for itself - no loss of bits to the genuine WAV (PCM)

Cheers.

Are lossless , well lossless?

Reply #12 –
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..., i mean cd is compressed, the files from cd are smaller they must have lost some info...
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=276175"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


CD is compressed ?
No.

An audio CD does not contain files in the usual sense. Your operating system just displays the audio tracks as files and maybe it just tells you the wrong size because of the different format (data tracks effectifly use 2048 bytes per sector, audio tracks 2352 bytes per sector).

SebastianG

Are lossless , well lossless?

Reply #13 –
This is a troll - don't feed it.
I am arrogant and I can afford it because I deliver.

Are lossless , well lossless?

Reply #14 –
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This is a troll - don't feed it.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=276297"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Agreed.