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Topic: CD Ripping: Illegal? (Read 18259 times) previous topic - next topic
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CD Ripping: Illegal?

Reply #25 –
The written warnings mean nothing. This isn't computer software; you weren't asked to comply with a end-user license agreement and break a seal to open the jewel case. You are under no legal obligation to follow the record company's rules (that they print on the discs to scare you) only the laws of your country.

CD Ripping: Illegal?

Reply #26 –
It doesn't matter what someone thinks but only what the court thinks. Opinions should be based on past court ruling otherwise it is just speculation. You know, laws are subject to interpretation.

CD Ripping: Illegal?

Reply #27 –
ok,understood.
i agree with both,or better with all that pay origianl cds and rip.
if we break or trash the cd "they don't want to know" but as we buy the product,we have rights in what we buy,right?

CD Ripping: Illegal?

Reply #28 –
Quote from: Cosmo on
Screw the DMCA. Has anyone actually been prosecuted for ripping a copy protected audio CD? Laws don't really mean much if they're not enforced.


I totally agree with you!!!
Just call me "The Mad Ripper!"...I'll rip anything that's not tied down!!! 

...come an get me, DMCA!!!!
I see "Deaf" people! d(-_-)b

CD Ripping: Illegal?

Reply #29 –
Quote from: ATLien on
Quote from: Cosmo on
Screw the DMCA. Has anyone actually been prosecuted for ripping a copy protected audio CD? Laws don't really mean much if they're not enforced.

I totally agree with you!!!
Just call me "The Mad Ripper!"...I'll rip anything that's not tied down!!! 

...come an get me, DMCA!!!!
... and I'd like very much to get a copy of your rips

CD Ripping: Illegal?

Reply #30 –
Witness the recent fiasco with thepiratebay.org

In the end, ultimately, the RIAA have to go home with its tails between its hind legs.

CD Ripping: Illegal?

Reply #31 –
Quote
Witness the recent fiasco with thepiratebay.org


The Pirate Bay is a little ridiculous in many circumstances. They recently started the Pirate Party to protect their own interests, but the bottom line is it's a little absurd. All these torrents need to do is comply with a few simple requests from the big lawyers here and there and things will be fine. Instead they push the limit and blow things out of proportion and this is what happens. Am I suprised the U.S put pressure on the Sweedish government to take care of the issue? nope  . They were asking for it. 

As for the DMCA focus on Section 103.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WIPO_Copyrigh...lementation_Act

Quote
It doesn't matter what someone thinks but only what the court thinks. Opinions should be based on past court ruling otherwise it is just speculation. You know, laws are subject to interpretation.


I am taking a law class this semester and what you said pretty much sums it up 
budding I.T professional

CD Ripping: Illegal?

Reply #32 –
Quote from: vlada on
Btw. In my country (and most others too) it is legal to copy any DVD or CD as long as it is not copy protected. You don't have to own the original. You can make a personal copy for private purpouses from whatever source it is (your own CD/DVD, internet, TV, radio, distributors etc.) And it is all legal as long as you don't break any copy protection.


Unfortunately, while most commercial CDs aren't copy protected, most commercial DVDs are (regardless of whether or not you have libdecss/libdvdcss or similar installed).  So, if your local law is "copy=OK if no copy protection", that doesn't help very much.

-brendan

CD Ripping: Illegal?

Reply #33 –
IMO: A law is a failure by default if it criminalizes a majority.  People who have ripped and burned CDs at least once in their life is probably a majority.  Record labels should be glad about the copy-ability of their music- it sells CDs more then it hinders sales.  They should try to think of it as advertising: they lose a little because of piracy, but more people get to know and like a band through it than any other form of advertising that record labels employ today, except for the radio.

<RANT>
Personnaly, I rip, burn, and copy to my heart's content, protected or not.  The DMCA is an Un-Constitusional piece of garbage that should never have been passed and DRM in general is the most perfect example of uninnovation, bad business practices, and screwing over valued customers that I've ever known.  We have fair-use rights and a pox on anyone who tries to impose otherwise.
</RANT>

P.S:  Some companies should be happy because of this.  Internet file-sharing sells lots of bandwidth and ripping and burning sells lots of hard drives and blank media that would go unused otherwise.
It's due for a good DEGAUSSIN'

CD Ripping: Illegal?

Reply #34 –
This is a great thread.  I'm really enjoying reading the different takes on the law and the different laws around the world.  It's fascinating.

CD Ripping: Illegal?

Reply #35 –
In my case I use SoundTaxi audio converter, which removes DRM from Napster, iTunes, Yahoo etc.
Is it legal? Suppose yes, cause the prog works with purchased songs ONLY - it seems to re-record the audio signal!   
http://www.soundtaxi.info/

CD Ripping: Illegal?

Reply #36 –
Quote from: Nadal on
In my case I use xxxxxxx audio converter, which removes DRM from Napster, iTunes, Yahoo etc.
Is it legal? Suppose yes, cause the prog works with purchased songs ONLY - it seems to re-record the audio signal!

Re-recording not only removes DRM, it removes quality (if you convert to another lossy format). And your argument for it's legality makes no sense. Such nonsense makes your post smell even more like the work of a typical shill who only signed up to promote their software. Which, by the way, is silly to pay for because there are plenty of free solutions for capturing the output stream. (or the old trick of burning the DRM'd files to CD, then re-ripping)

CD Ripping: Illegal?

Reply #37 –
Nadal> It depends on the country where you live. According to European directive, it's illegal.

CD Ripping: Illegal?

Reply #38 –
Quote from: vlada on
Nadal> It depends on the country where you live. According to European directive, it's illegal.

I Germany, it might be legal as long as the copy is an analog recording of the output. No court decision yet, though, IIRC. Burning the files to CD (if the DRM allowes to do this) and then ripping should be legal as well, and gives you a digital copy - still, you will of course lose quality when you reencode it.

CD Ripping: Illegal?

Reply #39 –
Quote from: HotshotGG on
Quote
Witness the recent fiasco with thepiratebay.org


The Pirate Bay is a little ridiculous in many circumstances. They recently started the Pirate Party to protect their own interests, but the bottom line is it's a little absurd. All these torrents need to do is comply with a few simple requests from the big lawyers here and there and things will be fine. Instead they push the limit and blow things out of proportion and this is what happens. Am I suprised the U.S put pressure on the Sweedish government to take care of the issue? nope  . They were asking for it. 

As for the DMCA focus on Section 103.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WIPO_Copyrigh...lementation_Act

Quote
It doesn't matter what someone thinks but only what the court thinks. Opinions should be based on past court ruling otherwise it is just speculation. You know, laws are subject to interpretation.


I am taking a law class this semester and what you said pretty much sums it up 

Well. Hosting illegal material is illegal. Hosting a file which includes a small amount of random info that may be used to connect to peers with a specific protocol and share a possibly illegal file is NOT illegal.
err... i'm not using windows any more ;)

CD Ripping: Illegal?

Reply #40 –
Storing small blocks of data that look like random gibberish?
That sounds like FreeNet.
Unfortunately its design/routing sucks.
(No, it does not scale well.)

CD Ripping: Illegal?

Reply #41 –
I think they're actually talking about a plain old .torrent file (if you knew that, my bad). Though, lol, there's nothing cryptic about files like "Led Zeppelin - Physical Graffiti [192kMP3].torrent". And once again, I believe the legality of it depends upon the nation involved.

About FreeNet - I think the most unfortunate part is it being abused by scum who like to share stuff like child pornography.

CD Ripping: Illegal?

Reply #42 –
Quote from: SebastianG on
Storing small blocks of data that look like random gibberish?
That sounds like FreeNet.
Unfortunately its design/routing sucks.
(No, it does not scale well.)

I gave up on freenet because....

Quote from: Cosmo on
About FreeNet - I think the most unfortunate part is it being abused by scum who like to share stuff like child pornography.



Quote from: Cosmo on
I think they're actually talking about a plain old .torrent file (if you knew that, my bad). Though, lol, there's nothing cryptic about files like "Led Zeppelin - Physical Graffiti [192kMP3].torrent". And once again, I believe the legality of it depends upon the nation involved.

I know, I was just being totally technical. I could name something "child porn.jpg" and that doesn't instantly make it child porn, does it? That file doesn't contain the album, just data that may be used under... <repeat previous post>
err... i'm not using windows any more ;)

CD Ripping: Illegal?

Reply #43 –
Quote from: Cosmo on
Regarding the ''ineffective protection'' scenario -

Does printing on the CD or it's packaging which states that ''duplication is prohibited'' mean anything (legally), or is effective copy protection the only true barrier?


Noone can avoid fair use by stating that he does not like it. So a note on the packaging "prohibiting" fair use is legally irrelevant. A circumvention of an "effective copy protection" is illegal just because the circumvention itself is prohibited by law. Your fair use rights still exist, even if the media is copy-protected. So at least in Europe/Germany you can force the maker of a DVD-Audio to give you the copies you need for fair use if you can't make them yourself because of an effective copy-protection.

Audio CDs can't be effectively copy-protected by definition. They are just that: bits'n'bytes without any encryption. And you always can copy the whole image of bits'n'bytes as long as you can "play" them. It's no circumvention of anything not to use "features" that would stumble over a thing you don't care for, like a 2nd (maybe false) TOC on a media where this does not make sense (like a redbook cd), or like "correcting" errors that just can be ignored. To not use something (those "features" of HW or SW that would stumble over some mismade CDs) is no circumvention of anything regardless of if their's a switch to choose between usage and non-usage or not. Because you yourself would create the "copy protection" by using the faulty or misleading "feature". And there's no law forcing you to create a "protection" against your fair use rights yourself. And there's also no law forcing to "use" the "copy protection" by a third party, like bying a cd reader drive that can't read Audio CDs correctly or setting a PC OS to "autostart" rootkits or the like. The "effectively working copy protection" must already work on the media itself, not by your usage of special HW or SW (like the drive's "error correction", the SW's possible ability to read a 2nd TOC, or the OS's "autostart feature").

CD Ripping: Illegal?

Reply #44 –
And regarding that c't article: Those lawyers where either lobbyists or just technically uninformed. To not read the 2nd TOC is just what every cheap CD player does and should do with any redbook CD. So a SW that does exactly this -- just not caring for a standards-incompliant "feature" -- is not circumventing anything. That was the case with EAC: "native TOC" meant the SW did less -- it cared only for the 1st TOC, like any stand-alone player does. Do I "circumvent" any lock in the back door when I just work through the front door?

CD Ripping: Illegal?

Reply #45 –
Quote from: vlada on
Nadal> It depends on the country where you live. According to European directive, it's illegal.

Nope. It's just analog re-recording. Legal in any European country.

CD Ripping: Illegal?

Reply #46 –
Quote from: jhartmann on
And regarding that c't article: Those lawyers where either lobbyists or just technically uninformed. To not read the 2nd TOC is just what every cheap CD player does and should do with any redbook CD. So a SW that does exactly this -- just not caring for a standards-incompliant "feature" -- is not circumventing anything. That was the case with EAC: "native TOC" meant the SW did less -- it cared only for the 1st TOC, like any stand-alone player does. Do I "circumvent" any lock in the back door when I just work through the front door?


IIRC the lawyers said that this feature was probably legal, but they weren't sure. I'll check this wehn I come home.
But I think the question is if you change the behaviour of your drive WITH THE INTENTION of circumventing a copy-protection.
Let's play with your analogy a bit. Imagine you come to a house. The front door is locked (the CD won't play in your drive with "normal" players), and, while you may generally enter the house, you know you are forbidden to "circumvent" any locks. So, you start walking around the house, trying possible doors and windows and finally find that the back door is open, so you enter. Now, did you "intentionally circumvent" the lock? Quite literally I fear. 

Now, if you originally came to the back door and found it open (your drive played the CD without trouble), you are just entering an insecure house. You encountered no working protection, so you didn't have to circumvent any.

BUT, if you regularly check the back door first, becuase you know it's probably not locked, and you know that the CD is protected (which you do, becuase it's printed on the CD)... well, that's quite a grey thing I suspect.

Sorry for mixeing metaphor and real here, but it was easier that way  .

CD Ripping: Illegal?

Reply #47 –
Quote from: MedO on
(the CD won't play in your drive with "normal" players)

(your drive played the CD without trouble)
My stand is that a CD that is blatantly violating standards are 'damaged', by definition.

Therefore my attempt of reading such a CD, regardless of copy-protection, falls under 'repair' category, by definition.

CD Ripping: Illegal?

Reply #48 –
Quote from: MedO on
But I think the question is if you change the behaviour of your drive WITH THE INTENTION of circumventing a copy-protection.

Nope. The law doesn't care for that. It just asks if I circumvent an effectively working (by itself, not only by using it together with special 3rd party stuff) copy-protections by non-simple means. Just working through the front door when I found the back door closed is a very simple means.
Quote from: MedO on
Let's play with your analogy a bit. Imagine you come to a house. The front door is locked (the CD won't play in your drive with "normal" players),

That's not the analogy. Those crippled CDs are open by the front door, meaning simple, "normal" CD players (without special capabilities of "error corrrection" and "2nd session processing") play them just fine (or you wouldn't be able to listen to them at all). You just can't go in from behind, but that's of no importance since it's always a very simple means to just walk through the front door, which is the main door anyway.

There is not the slightest uncertainty within the law.