Modern Vinyl "Masters" vs. CD--My Experience
Reply #125 – 2014-09-21 06:43:20
IF the labels give us lossless flac of exactly the versions they use for the vinyl pressing all would be fine. As it is now i can't stop feeling fooled. Like with many things they recreated very successfull their own market and use the magic of propaganda in people get starting discussing all day long cd <-> vinyl. It is the same to me when the HighnBitarte version sounds purposely very different to the cd or you get the super dupa deluxe only when buying the itunes version. Instead of making buying music more attractive it all became worse imho. Is this to say you believe that their is a version that is used for vinyl that is different from CD? Or you don't know, and don't trust it? I know that this would never happen. The masses get don't care, so the labels will not. My understanding of the assertions of some of the more knowledgeable members on here is that the brickwalled CD master is turned down(with destructive gain/clipping) and put on vinyl. I am struggling with this. I can see it definitely for some labels and artists but not so much for others. Depending on how much pride and control they have when it comes to vinyl release. What do you mean about iTunes? Are you talking about different sounding versions or just the "bonus tracks" and such? I think the latter. In any case you are right. My understanding was that this is not "technically" possible with vinyl and so therefore, they may not make a whole new master for the LP, but send it out for LP before the final brickwall limiting gain is applied. If not, the squared waves would make the stylus jump out of the groove. But then not all CDs clip like mad, they just have very little dynamic range and the peaks look more like, IDK, a desert cliff with very small variations in the flat top surface, where maybe one sample will hit 0db and the rest of the peak will be between -.1 and .5 db or so. This master described above can be attenuated a bit with it's heavily limited waveforms and sent to vinyl and pressed? Would that not make the record sound a lot like the CD, and behave similarly in an audio editor, as in have about the same dynamic range from peak to RMS? I'm not talking about tricking TT DR meter. I'm talking about actually listening and watching for indication of dynamic range in the meters and waveforms. Even if it is only 3-5db in peak transients, I have not observed a case where I felt the CD had as much DR or sounded as suffocated, in the loud parts.* With 10 bits of DR in vinyl, of course the CD will have more DR in the unaffected areas. I am trying to wrap my head around and understand what is being asserted in the course of this thread. *Kanye West - Dark Fantasy(horrible production in the mixing stage it seems) and A Perfect Circle(CDs are limited, but maybe not too much?) releases are the most questionable I have found In case of filters like all-pass is that to say; because the CD has more bass or certain frequencies, it appears the vinyl has more DR when it is actually just lack of bass(or certain frequencies) to make the waveforms look different? I have googled and it always seems to lead me back here, where it seems half don't commit to a conclusion and half are insistent on an absolute conclusion. This is important to me, if you couldn't tell. If you haven't any of the above, for which I don't blame you, this is the meat of my post: Assuming some LPs are just limited masters turned down and the "dynamic range" I see(and hear) is all analogue playback effect posing as DR, Is there a solid, easy way to test this that I missed? In this case TT DR Meter doesn't cut it, as the sampled LP is just a representation of the analogue playback, which is tricking me. Some records have enough press that I know; NIN Hesitation Marks mentions the LP master on the site because of the "Audiophile" master he put out. I do have all three versions of that album, which would make for an interesting post. Maybe it is relevant, since the CD and Audiophile are just a few dB different in level. Also, we know that there is 3 masters in that case. I digress, other cases it is more likely done the cheap way like, Ludacris or She Wants Revenge--one 12" not special edition or double, 180g etc.... If what I fear is true all or most of the time; What about double LPs or 12" singles? Why do these almost always have a nice lot of more DR, as opposed to just being louder? I think I have an Eminem 12" that sounds just louder, but most serious electronic acts like Daft Punk or Justice, this seems ti be the case I am off to do some A-B comparisons, no X since I am alone, shocker EDIT: Too long and repeated sentiments from last post.