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Topic: Album Art Downloader XUI (Read 2066359 times) previous topic - next topic
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Album Art Downloader XUI

Reply #1050 –
Quote from: AlexVallat on
...sort by: 'Area' option...
Fine, I've put it up as a Feature Request. Hopefully no-one will be too confused by seeing "Area" in the sort-by list, if they don't understand what it means.

  I know what you mean... 
Maybe you could use the same convention Cerious Thumbs Plus uses: sort by "dimentions".
And you can always remove that feature later if you find out it causes too much confusion. (I hope it doesn't, though...)

And thank you so much for putting up with our "wierdness"... 
You definitely didn't had to, but it is very nice of you to do so.  Thanks again.

Album Art Downloader XUI

Reply #1051 –
cover-paradies.boo:
Code: [Select]
System.IO.File.WriteAllText("cover-paradies.log", searchResults)


Quote from: AlexVallat on
Hopefully no-one will be too confused by seeing "Area" in the sort-by list, if they don't understand what it means.

Ideally a software is self-explanatory but that's really hard to achieve. Manual is the answer.  I haven't put much thought to the "area" idea but it sounds like a good idea.

Album Art Downloader XUI

Reply #1052 –
I've just (finally) followed the "feature request" feature to SourceForge. Nice system!

There is one specific open request there that also interest me very much:
Quote
Add ability to remove results from the list manually = Ability to delete results by pressing an x icon or something. -
minor issue (This is useful when there vast amounts are obviously incorrect matches as well as a lot of possibly correct ones)

I completely agree and would love this one.
Not only for this reason stated, but also because it would allow us to "refine" the displayed results until we reach the best image intended, by eliminating from the view those images we have alredy compared and don't intend to keep (or compare again against the other results). This could prevent the oh-so-common confusion "did I check (zoom in on) this one already?".

On the same subject (refining and inspecting the results), I've been using the new version of Foxit PDF Reader and they have a relatively new "Magnifier" Tool that I think would be absolutely wonderful to have in AAD, maybe in the future (I know this would be a lot of work).
+
Simple Magnifying + Left Click Extra magnifying (with decay)

I'm very very picky about the images that I would like to choose, specially when there are many similar results. I always like to compare the image size, jpeg compression quality (for as few as possible artifacts in the image), etc, etc.

I usually use the preview option (which is great to have) in AAD for the first round of eliminations. I wonder if (also sometime in the future) it would be possible to specify the zoom level of the preview and the maximum window size for this preview 'window'.

I would like to have the zoom level option because it is very hard to compare and actually see all the image defects and artifacts at 100% zoom, and the maximum size option would be because sometimes the image is so large it fills the whole screen and it's kind of overwhelming (it would be nice to limit that "in you face" effect).

P.S.: I figured that images (specially from Google) that you try to preview and they do not exist anymore already "vanish" from the program interface, so maybe the small "x" icon (just like the "i" icon for page information) that wold have the same effect might not be a huge jump to implement.

Album Art Downloader XUI

Reply #1053 –
Quote from: audio20 on
Have you tried the persistent preview window? It sounds like it would do most of what you are asking for. Right click on a result and choose Preview. OK, so it doesn't have a fancy picture of a magnifying glass like Foxit, but should be functional enough.

Akkurat, thanks for the heads-up on the cover-paradies script, I'll make sure that's gone the next time it's updated, oops!

Alex

Album Art Downloader XUI

Reply #1054 –
Quote from: audio20 on
I figured that images (specially from Google) that you try to preview and they do not exist anymore already "vanish" from the program interface

I think that that happens because the initial fetched/reported size isn't right. The actual image size is smaller and your filter makes it "vanish". I've seen this too.

Quote from: AlexVallat on
I'll make sure that's gone the next time it's updated, oops!

Hmm, so you're not going to fix it until there are other updates to that script? Now it's crapping, if you allow the expression , text files all over users directories.

Album Art Downloader XUI

Reply #1055 –
Quote from: AlexVallat on
Have you tried the persistent preview window?

I did not know of this window yet...   
That is great! It will serve me really well.

Quote
It sounds like it would do most of what you are asking for....doesn't have a fancy picture of a magnifying glass like Foxit, but should be functional enough.

Indeed it does!!  (I have no need for the fancy magnifying glass either, I was just exemplifying)

Still, the simple preview (left click on image) is the way to go when the number of images to check is high (more than 10 or so). It is very well designed - fast, slick and simple.
I guess there is no chance to specify the zoom level on this simple preview (to 200% for example), not even in the future? (I understand this feature is already covered by the persistent window, but I'm talking about the case when there is too many images to check)

Or maybe the behaviour of this "persistent window" could be modified in a way that it would be really "persistent" (retain size, position and zoom level) and show whichever image we click on the main interface window (is that even possible??).
(I'm guessing that's not really the disirable behaviour because this way it would prevent a "side by side" comparison of 2 images...)
(...but maybe then there could be a "stick pin" icon option on the top bar or something to make the window 'reusable' and use the very same persistent window with it's settings for all image previews)

Please bear in mind that I'm not complaining (at all!). I did love discovering this "persistent" window. Thank you for that!   

Album Art Downloader XUI

Reply #1056 –
Quote from: audio20 on
And thank you so much for putting up with our "wierdness"... 
You definitely didn't had to, but it is very nice of you to do so.  Thanks again.
Many thanks from me as well... I wish more products had a comparable customer service!

Alessandro
 

Album Art Downloader XUI

Reply #1057 –
Quote from: Akkurat on
Now it's crapping, if you allow the expression , text files all over users directories.
Well, one small text file, in the Album Art Downloader program folder. Something which it's probably been doing for a long time - I don't know when that line crept in. On balance, I figured it was less annoying to leave it than to trigger an unnecessary script update for everyone.

Quote from: audio20 on
I can't see how zoom would work for the pop-up previews. As soon as you take your finger off the mouse button, it closes, so you can't click any sort of zooming control. I suppose you could (if dexterous enough) use the scroll wheel, but I'm not sure that would ever get used! In any case, it still wouldn't cover side-by-side comparison, as you can only ever have one pop-up open at a time.

For detailed side by side comparison, the persistent preview window is definitely the way to go. I think the stick pin option is too complicated, but if I think of any good simple ideas to match the workflow you're describing, I'll get back to you.

Alex

Album Art Downloader XUI

Reply #1058 –
Quote from: AlexVallat on
Well, one small text file, in the Album Art Downloader program folder.
Nope! In my "save images to" folder too. That's why I spotted this. Never seen that happen before. Tried to reproduce, can't. But AFAIK, the user can't decide where the log file is saved. So, there must be a code path in your code which made AAD suddenly save the log file to "save images to" setting folder. "Current working directory" thing?

There's actually an older cover-paradies.log file in the program folder created on 16th day, updated today (searched something today).

EDIT: steps to reproduce:

1) open AAD and search something

= a log file is created in the program folder

2) save an image
3) save the same image again, don't replace the existing (this happens when saving more than one same size file from same source.. not enough distinguishing "tags" to use.. e.g. I've "path"\%name%%preset%___%type%___%size%___%source%.%extension%)
4) alter the filename and save
5) search something else

= a log file is created in the folder where the you saved the image in step 3.

So it was "Current working directory" what made this. Corrected by making sure that every file write has a folder path as well..?

Album Art Downloader XUI

Reply #1059 –
Quote
...how zoom would work for the pop-up previews...can't click any sort of zooming control...
Absolutely. And, more than that, any icon or something else present in that window would "kill" it's marvellows simplicity.

Quote
...you could (if dexterous enough) use the scroll wheel...

Can I? Can I? Please?!!       
I wold absolutely love that! (just hold the left click and use the middle finger to zoom in with the mouse wheel - that would be incredible!)

Quote
but I'm not sure that would ever get used!
Oh...    You got me on that one. 
Anyway, if I can count myself in that one, it wold get used yeah (in absolute terms), at least once a week...

Quote
...still wouldn't cover side-by-side comparison, as you can only ever have one pop-up open at a time.
Indeed, but I really don't do much side by side (but I'm guessing other people do, so that couldn't be taken away from the current program features).
I prefer to just inspect one image at a time; I usually find out that some of the bigger images tend to lack quality when closely inspected.

Quote
...the stick pin option is too complicated, but if I think of any good simple ideas to match the workflow you're describing, I'll get back to you.

Thank you for even considering it. 
I agree. It's too complicated. Definitely not the way to go.

Album Art Downloader XUI

Reply #1060 –
Quote from: Akkurat on
Nope! In my "save images to" folder too.
Oh dear, in that case yes, it is more serious. I've pushed out an update now.

Quote from: audio20 on
(just hold the left click and use the middle finger to zoom in with the mouse wheel - that would be incredible!)
It's a possibility. It shouldn't get in the way of people who don't want to use it, so I don't have any strong objection to it. The only concern I have is how to pan. Zooming would be fine, but zooming only into the middle of the image might be a bit limiting. I could have it grow the preview window size (within limits of the screen) as you zoomed in, but you can't drag the mouse to the point on the image you want to zoom to, as dragging starts a drag out of the image file to be able to drop it into explorer...

Album Art Downloader XUI

Reply #1061 –
Hey guys, sorry to sway this a little off topic, but i just recently did the jump from itunes/winamp to foobar (which i should of done years ago, but it was too complex at the time)...
anyways i got a great theme going, and when album art is present it makes it much more pleasant to the eyes....

now i read a few things about getting foobar to automatically download album art to the albums folder without the need to go find the folder each time i want to download specific art for it... i tried searching how to get AAD to work through foobar, but came out unsuccessful..

what i did,
downloaded latest foo_run and AAD
added - C:\Program Files (x86)\AlbumArtDownloader\AlbumArt.exe "%artist%" "%album%" "$replace(%_path%,%_filename_ext%,)cover.jpg   to my run services, and i tried running it but nothing happens, aad doesnt open and when it is open it doesn't respond to my requests!

i would appreciate if i can get some input on this!
thanks a ton

Album Art Downloader XUI

Reply #1062 –
Are presets and group by not available as command line options?

Album Art Downloader XUI

Reply #1063 –
Quote from: Ev!L-aLphA on
i would appreciate if i can get some input on this!
For foo_run you need to escape the ( and ) characters, so you should use: "C:\Program Files '('x86')'\AlbumArtDownloader\AlbumArt.exe"

Quote from: wolfsong on
Are presets and group by not available as command line options?
Group by isn't currently available from the command line. It should be, and I'll add that in a future version. For presets, I'm not sure what you are after, could you describe what you're trying to achieve?

Thanks,

Alex

Album Art Downloader XUI

Reply #1064 –
Image Zooming

It occurs to me, from what audio20 has been saying, that zooming in to the images is probably mostly done to check for blemishes or other small imperfections. To that end, I suspect it will be more helpful to zoom in using a pixel-perfect scaling algorithm, rather than one that attempts to make a non-blocky enlarged image. The current zoom (in the Preview window) uses the Fant scaling algorithm, like the Windows Preview window. This produces a nice enlarged image, but is probably less useful for checking for blemishes. To illustrate the difference:



These two images are the same 80*80 bit of a cover, zoomed in 500%. On the left is how it is currently displayed, and on the right is the pixel-perfect scaling (discounting any jpg artefacts). Obviously the one on the left looks much better, but if what you want is not to look at a pretty picture, but to check the image for flaws, it might be more useful.

Any thoughts, anyone? Do you use zooming in for anything other than checking for image blemishes? Do you prefer the current Fant scaling for any other reason?

Alex

Album Art Downloader XUI

Reply #1065 –
Quote from: AlexVallat on
Image Zooming
...zooming...to check for blemishes...small imperfections...more helpful...using a pixel-perfect scaling algorithm, rather than one that attempts to make a non-blocky enlarged image.

Hi, Alex,
I'm really excited about this feature and I think it would really help me and I'll try to illustrate it:


As you can see, at 100% zoom you can't really see the image artifacts that form around the letters (for instance); and most image defects could go unnoticed. Images with jpeg quality factor of 100 or 85 or 70 seam to be virtually equal at this zoom.

At 200% you already see the artifacts and that kind of zoom could be quite enough, specially taking into consideration that AAD main purpose isn't really to help you edit your images, but select them. This zoom should be enough for us to be able to distinguish one image from another when there are many similar results from various sources.

At 300% it is definitely easy to spot any kind of defects and the zooming does not need to go beyond that (in my opinion - feel free to disagree with me).

Quote
...current zoom uses the Fant scaling...produces a nice enlarged image...less useful for checking for blemishes...the one on the left looks much better, but if what you want is not to look at a pretty picture, but to check the image for flaws, it might be more useful.

Absolutely. The pixel-scaling ("nearest neighbour"-like/preserve hard edges) seams a lot more useful for this kind of job, in my opinion.

Quote
Do you use zooming in for anything other than checking for image blemishes?

Is it possible that we could keep the one (Fant) being used in the 'preview window' and use the new (Pixel) for zooming in the main window previews? (or the controls are the same and must be equal in both kinds of window?)
I must point out that I would be very happy with either one of the algorithms, and just being able to use zoom capabilities in the preview from the main window will be terrific!

I was also thinking about the usability of the zoom in the preview from main window, and the wheel is quite fine for me, but it could be awkward for some people. I noticed that you get the regular context menu in this window [Preview/Copy/Save/Save as]. My opinion is that this is kind of pointless, since this is a fast-engaging preview (quick on/quick off) and it is very unlikely that you want to do anything else other than "preview" the image when you're in this window.

I also noticed that the wheel behaviour probably will have to be modified to be exclusive to this window, as today the wheel still controls the up/down scrolling of the main window, even in "preview mode". So, I though it could be very useful (and quite easier to engage) to also modify the right click in this specific window (which would actually be a simultaneous left+right click) to zoom in by a fixed value (I was thinking about 200%), instead of havind the regular context menu.


Album Art Downloader XUI

Reply #1066 –
@AlexVallat
Quote
The current zoom (in the Preview window) uses the Fant scaling algorithm, like the Windows Preview window. This produces a nice enlarged image, but is probably less useful for checking for blemishes.


I've never heard about "fant scaling" . Anyways, if your scaling algorithm is a bit blurry, it is normal that you don't see "imperfections" when zooming.
Try with catmull-rom (one kind of bicubic) or lanczos.

Album Art Downloader XUI

Reply #1067 –
Quote from: audio20 on
zooming does not need to go beyond [300%]
I agree, but don't think there's much point in restricting it. If you keep on pressing zoom in, or keep using the scroll wheel, presumably for some reason you do want to keep zooming in.

Quote from: audio20 on
The pixel-scaling ("nearest neighbour"-like/preserve hard edges) seams a lot more useful for this kind of job, in my opinion.
Thanks, that's what I figured, but I want to get as much feedback as possible before implementing a potentially unwanted change like that.

Quote from: audio20 on
Is it possible that we could keep the one (Fant) being used in the 'preview window' and use the new (Pixel) for zooming in the main window previews?
Possible, but I don't want to. There should be no functionality that can only be accessed through the popup preview, it's for convenience only.

Quote from: audio20 on
I though it could be very useful [to] simultaneous left+right click) to zoom in by a fixed value
I don't like this. A chorded Left+Right click, even when not reassigned to middle click (as is usually the case in two button mice or trackpads), is just not something anyone would associate with zoom. At least the scroll wheel is sometimes used for that.

Quote from: extrabigmehdi on
Anyways, if your scaling algorithm is a bit blurry, it is normal that you don't see "imperfections" when zooming. Try with catmull-rom (one kind of bicubic) or lanczos.
No, I'd never heard of it either, but it's what Microsoft call it. Anyway, you'd see similar issues with lanczos or bicubic, the question really is do we want a scaling algorithm that tries to make the enlarged image smooth and pretty (Fant, lanczos, bicubic, or similar), or one which leaves the pixels exactly as they are, for inspection (nearest-neighbour).

So far, it's looking like nearest-neighbour is more useful in this case, but I'm still open to opposing arguments.

Alex

Album Art Downloader XUI

Reply #1068 –
@AlexVallat
Quote
the question really is do we want a scaling algorithm that tries to make the enlarged image smooth and pretty (Fant, lanczos, bicubic, or similar), or one which leaves the pixels exactly as they are, for inspection (nearest-neighbour).

It's not more smooth or pretty, but more accurate than your fant scaling .  Both lanczos, and catmull-rom could be considered as an "approximation" , of the ideal case of sinc function.
Anyway I've done lot of experiments with scaling algorithms,  and I can just tell, that you can make  a better compromise between the "fant scaling",
and just plain nearest-neighbour .  Now if it's not supported by Microsoft, or it requires time to implement that, then that's an other question.



Album Art Downloader XUI

Reply #1069 –
Quote from: extrabigmehdi on
It's not more smooth or pretty, but more accurate than your fant scaling.
I'm no sure what you mean by accurate, here. There are really only two classes of algorithm for enlarging (reducing is a different matter, and not under discussion here). You can either just draw bigger pixels (nearest neighbour), which gives you a blocky image, but does let you see exactly what the pixels in the image are. Or, you can try and produce an enlargement that looks like the original picture, but bigger (and not blocky). From what I've tried, Fant, lanczos, bicubic and bilinear all fall into this category. I wasn't able to try Catmull-rom, but I assume it does something similar. Arguments can certainly be made about which produces the nicer looking enlargement, but it's not really what I'm concerned about at the moment - it's a more fundamental thing of should it even be trying to make it look good, as opposed to showing exactly the pixels that are present in the image.

Album Art Downloader XUI

Reply #1070 –
@AlexVallat
Quote
I'm no sure what you mean by accurate, here.

Well, my knowledge regarding  Fourier theory is limited , but the sinc function (and
approximations of it)  are inspired by  it. The word "accurate" can vary depending of the  criteria you use
, however in my case this would mean better preservation of details, or "better frequency response".

They are lot of study/theory , regarding reconstruction filters ,
but I'm talking from the point of view of my experiments.
Without complicating things, lanczos3 would provide more interesting results, I think than what you currently use.
The algorithm is fairly simple / open / documented. However it requires more cpu calculations.

I invite you to compare different results with different scaling algorithm ,
at this page, especially example of the clown:
http://www.general-cathexis.com/interpolation/index.html

Album Art Downloader XUI

Reply #1071 –
Quote from: extrabigmehdi on
I invite you to compare different results with different scaling algorithm ,
at this page, especially example of the clown:
http://www.general-cathexis.com/interpolation/index.html
Thank you for that page, it is very interesting!

The two options I'm considering are either A) using an interpolation algorithm to produce a better enlarged picture, or B) using Box (nearest neighbour) to produce an enlarged view of the actual pixels comprising the picture.

The difference is, if you consider a very simple picture of a circle, when you use the Zoom functionality, are you looking for a bigger picture of that circle, or are you looking to inspect the picture of the circle *at that size* more closely. If you want a bigger picture of the circle, it should be smooth, and needs a good interpolation algorithm to achieve that. If you want a closer view of the picture itself, rather than of the circle, then you wouldn't want it interpolating new pixels, just drawing the original pixels bigger.

Separately to this, if we keep option A of producing a quality enlarged picture, there's the question of which would be the best interpolation algorithm to produce the best looking picture. I take your point that there may be better choices than the current Fant one, but given that the results aren't saved, and that this isn't the primary application used for viewing them, I don't think it's worth implementing one where it isn't normally available with the current imaging library.

Album Art Downloader XUI

Reply #1072 –
@AlexVallat
Quote
If you want a closer view of the picture itself, rather than of the circle, then you wouldn't want it interpolating new pixels, just drawing the original pixels bigger.

I find personally easier to make a closer look to a picture using a good algorithm , rather than using plain nearest neighbor.
Unless of course , you just want to look  at each pixels.

Quote
I don't think it's worth implementing one where it isn't normally available with the current imaging library.

Perhaps. I've suggested lanczos or catmull-rom, because they are less complicated than other alternatives.
In fact they are two kind of scaling algorithm:  adaptive and non-adaptive.
The non-adaptive solutions use a fixed kernel;  and usually a "windowed sinc" solution, like lanczos is considered the best.
Then they are the adaptive solutions, that parse the image and try to reproduce sharper/more regular edges.
These lasts one are beyond the scope of what you are looking for.


Album Art Downloader XUI

Reply #1073 –
Quote from: extrabigmehdi on
I find personally easier to make a closer look to a picture using a good algorithm, rather than using plain nearest neighbor.
OK, so for determining the quality of the image, in order to choose which result to use, you find it easier to use an interpolated enlargement rather than a nearest-neighbour blown-up pixel view.

So, that's one in favour of changing, and one against, so far. Anyone else? (see [a href='index.php?act=findpost&pid=664967']original post[/a] for details, if you haven't been following).

Album Art Downloader XUI

Reply #1074 –
Quote from: AlexVallat on
...beyond 300%...
I agree, but don't think there's much point in restricting it. If you keep on pressing zoom in, or keep using the scroll wheel, presumably for some reason you do want to keep zooming in.

Ok. I agree, but I think it kind of depends on the zoom stepping (how much more zoom will you get with each turn of the wheel - 5%? 10%? 50%?).

If it's too little stepping, it might take us too long to get to 200% or 300% zoom (and loose the whole "fast" concept associated with this preview).
Suppose that we wanted to reach 300% on a single wheel roll (aprox. 5 turns); If the stepping is 50%, we would go to 350%, which is more than enough for inspection, but if the stepping is 10%, we would go to 150%, which isn't quite enough, and it would require 3 more complete wheel rolls to get to the desired zooming factor of 300% (not as much fast and convenient).

Quote
...The pixel-scaling...
Thanks, that's what I figured, but I want to get as much feedback as possible before implementing a potentially unwanted change like that.

Yes, absolutely. I get it.
I didn't get it before that I was stating the obvious  (that my personal concern resides with inpecting the image rather than enlarging it). 

Quote
...Is it possible that we could keep the one...
Possible, but I don't want to. There should be no functionality that can only be accessed through the popup preview, it's for convenience only.
Ok. Fair enough. Makes perfect sense.

Quote
...simultaneous left+right click to zoom in...
I don't like this. A chorded Left+Right click, even when not reassigned to middle click (as is usually the case in two button mice or trackpads), is just not something anyone would associate with zoom. At least the scroll wheel is sometimes used for that.

Oh... You got me there. I wasn't even remembering the possibility of buttons reassignment... That functionality would be cool and very easy to use, but if it can't be universal, it just can't be. I get it.

Thanks again for even discussing all that with us, Alex. I appreciate it.