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Topic: Two different CD's with the same DISCID and CTDB TOCID (Read 2765 times) previous topic - next topic
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Two different CD's with the same DISCID and CTDB TOCID

I have two New Age CD's that are different but they show as the same DISCID and CTDB TOCID. One is called "Ambient Music For Sleep" and the other "Deep Sleep System 2.0" but both are from the same "artist". The packaging, labels, even track names are different. They are two distinctly advertised products that are both for sale today even.

The CRC for test/copy and AR are different between the two CD's yet both are verified with secure rip and also pass the AR. When I ripped them I had to go and manually add all the info as EAC sees them as the exact same CD. Did the vendor repackage the same CD under a completely different name and tracks? It's ambient which is slightly hard to compare as it's just a bunch of "swirly" music but I believe they are the same. The lengths of each track are but some of the tag information must change the size as they are slightly different by a few hundred bytes?

A quick question if someone would explain I've always been curious to the difference between the test/copy CRC and the AR CRC. I had one CD that if you ripped it 3 out of 4 times or 4 out of 5 times about 75 to 80% of the time the test/copy CRC would come back as the same but the AR CRC never came back as correct. Is there a good way to interpret it? Was it just consistent damage that I could read the same most of the time? I saved all these New Age CD's 'til last as about half of them can't be verified so I am just secure ripping them and calling it good for now as all I can do I believe.

The DISCID for both is 0F0E3102.

Ambient Music For Sleep:
Code: [Select]
Exact Audio Copy V1.3 from 2. September 2016

EAC extraction logfile from 11. May 2017, 11:15

Jeffrey Thompson / Ambient Music For Sleep

Used drive  : hp      CDDVDW SN-208FB   Adapter: 1  ID: 0

Read mode               : Secure
Utilize accurate stream : Yes
Defeat audio cache      : No
Make use of C2 pointers : No

Read offset correction                      : 6
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out          : No
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks   : No
Null samples used in CRC calculations       : Yes
Used interface                              : Native Win32 interface for Win NT & 2000
Gap handling                                : Appended to previous track

Used output format              : User Defined Encoder
Selected bitrate                : 1024 kBit/s
Quality                         : High
Add ID3 tag                     : No
Command line compressor         : C:\Program Files (x86)\Exact Audio Copy\Flac\flac.exe
Additional command line options : -8 -V -T "ARTIST=%artist%" -T "TITLE=%title%" -T "ALBUM=%albumtitle%" -T "DATE=%year%" -T "TRACKNUMBER=%tracknr%" -T "GENRE=%genre%" -T "COMMENT=%comment%" -T "BAND=%albuminterpret%" -T "ALBUMARTIST=%albuminterpret%" -T "COMPOSER=%composer%" %haslyrics%--tag-from-file=LYRICS="%lyricsfile%"%haslyrics% -T "DISCNUMBER=%cdnumber%" -T "TOTALDISCS=%totalcds%" -T "TOTALTRACKS=%numtracks%" %hascover%--picture="%coverfile%"%hascover% %source% -o %dest%


TOC of the extracted CD

     Track |   Start  |  Length  | Start sector | End sector 
    ---------------------------------------------------------
        1  |  0:00.00 | 30:11.00 |         0    |   135824   
        2  | 30:11.00 | 30:22.57 |    135825    |   272531   


Track  1

     Filename C:\EAC Rips\01 Ambience.wav

     Pre-gap length  0:00:02.00

     Peak level 84.2 %
     Extraction speed 2.5 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC 987F50A4
     Copy CRC 987F50A4
     Accurately ripped (confidence 3)  [9B0D4506]  (AR v1)
     Copy OK

Track  2

     Filename C:\EAC Rips\02 Ethreal Dreams.wav

     Peak level 38.1 %
     Extraction speed 3.6 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC A32B26FE
     Copy CRC A32B26FE
     Accurately ripped (confidence 3)  [243CAC74]  (AR v1)
     Copy OK


All tracks accurately ripped

No errors occurred

End of status report

---- CUETools DB Plugin V2.1.6

[CTDB TOCID: ZOwaZCl3X1oEfUQmGYFwS11LWIg-] found
Submit result: already submitted
Track | CTDB Status
  1   | (26/26) Accurately ripped
  2   | (24/26) Accurately ripped


==== Log checksum 639FE982C0708FF25D5701AEEA6EBBA398DF55C0B9F73CC2373978421639E1FF ====

Delta Sleep System 2.0:
Code: [Select]
Exact Audio Copy V1.3 from 2. September 2016

EAC extraction logfile from 10. May 2017, 16:02

Jeffrey Thompson / Delta Sleep System 2.0

Used drive  : hp      CDDVDW SN-208FB   Adapter: 1  ID: 0

Read mode               : Secure
Utilize accurate stream : Yes
Defeat audio cache      : No
Make use of C2 pointers : No

Read offset correction                      : 6
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out          : No
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks   : No
Null samples used in CRC calculations       : Yes
Used interface                              : Native Win32 interface for Win NT & 2000
Gap handling                                : Appended to previous track

Used output format              : User Defined Encoder
Selected bitrate                : 1024 kBit/s
Quality                         : High
Add ID3 tag                     : No
Command line compressor         : C:\Program Files (x86)\Exact Audio Copy\Flac\flac.exe
Additional command line options : -8 -V -T "ARTIST=%artist%" -T "TITLE=%title%" -T "ALBUM=%albumtitle%" -T "DATE=%year%" -T "TRACKNUMBER=%tracknr%" -T "GENRE=%genre%" -T "COMMENT=%comment%" -T "BAND=%albuminterpret%" -T "ALBUMARTIST=%albuminterpret%" -T "COMPOSER=%composer%" %haslyrics%--tag-from-file=LYRICS="%lyricsfile%"%haslyrics% -T "DISCNUMBER=%cdnumber%" -T "TOTALDISCS=%totalcds%" -T "TOTALTRACKS=%numtracks%" %hascover%--picture="%coverfile%"%hascover% %source% -o %dest%


TOC of the extracted CD

     Track |   Start  |  Length  | Start sector | End sector 
    ---------------------------------------------------------
        1  |  0:00.00 | 30:11.00 |         0    |   135824   
        2  | 30:11.00 | 30:22.57 |    135825    |   272531   


Track  1

     Filename C:\EAC Rips\01 Peaceful Slumber.wav

     Pre-gap length  0:00:02.00

     Peak level 84.2 %
     Extraction speed 2.6 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC 6C992846
     Copy CRC 6C992846
     Accurately ripped (confidence 8)  [3672F361]  (AR v2)
     Copy OK

Track  2

     Filename C:\EAC Rips\02 Dreamtime.wav

     Peak level 38.1 %
     Extraction speed 3.8 X
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC 2CB73DF0
     Copy CRC 2CB73DF0
     Accurately ripped (confidence 8)  [6EE5C3A8]  (AR v2)
     Copy OK


All tracks accurately ripped

No errors occurred

End of status report

---- CUETools DB Plugin V2.1.6

[CTDB TOCID: ZOwaZCl3X1oEfUQmGYFwS11LWIg-] found
Submit result: ZOwaZCl3X1oEfUQmGYFwS11LWIg- has been confirmed
Track | CTDB Status
  1   | (25/25) Accurately ripped
  2   | (23/25) Accurately ripped


==== Log checksum F058D2EC5F13FAC3B82CBC92D54EC2AADE5621E1CC7246A258597EB41D6AC4FA ====

Re: Two different CD's with the same DISCID and CTDB TOCID

Reply #2 –
Identical track lengths and peak levels. The OP even suggests the music sounds the same. If it walks like a duck...

Re: Two different CD's with the same DISCID and CTDB TOCID

Reply #3 –
https://www.discogs.com/Dr-Jeffrey-Thompson-Ambient-Music-For-Sleep/release/4615059
https://www.discogs.com/Dr-Jeffrey-Thompson-Delta-Sleep-System-20/release/4600125
https://www.discogs.com/Dr-Jeffrey-Thompson-Awakened-Mind-System-20/release/4600115

So the doctor sells you the same "medicine" under different brand names, and what else is new? ;)

But they are not from the same pressing batch, and different pressings often have different offsets (moving everything to the left or right a few bits, google for "AccurateRip" and "offset" for more), which is sufficient to generate different checksums.
If it is merely an offset question, you can usually find out using CUETools or possibly foobar2000 with the foo_bitcompare utility.

Quote from: Riverstorm on
A quick question if someone would explain I've always been curious to the difference between the test/copy CRC and the AR CRC. I had one CD that if you ripped it 3 out of 4 times or 4 out of 5 times about 75 to 80% of the time the test/copy CRC would come back as the same but the AR CRC never came back as correct.
The AccurateRip checksum is a different algorithm and should not match the test/copy CRC. The test & copy CRCs match each other (it reads twice and compares the result), while the AR CRC is used to compare to the database.

Re: Two different CD's with the same DISCID and CTDB TOCID

Reply #4 –
Oh, and AR doesn't clash. Two different discs can happily coexist with the same ID.

The mentality that your disc must have a problem because no tracks match or the numbers are lower than for some other pressing, despite there being no other signs of trouble is wrong-headed.

Re: Two different CD's with the same DISCID and CTDB TOCID

Reply #5 –
Thanks guys for the answers. I will go with the duck and a spoon full of sugar...helps the medicine go down. ;) I shouldn't be surprised they "re-brand" to make an extra buck at the expense of my consumer naivety.