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Topic: is it worth to buy an external dac ? (Read 2393 times) previous topic - next topic
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is it worth to buy an external dac ?

Hi
I have a realtek 8xx , i don't remember should a 800 audio card
I listen music at 44.100 , mp3 lame 320kb ,aac itunes at 256vbr or 320vbr and only sometime at flac  , and i can't hear any differences even via expansive headphones
I bought via internet some albums at 32bit 44.100 in flac
i use foobar2000 wasapi event or musicbee wasapi event with the realtek

i'm thinking to buy SMSL SU-1 (very cheap) high considered audio card or TOPPING E30II Lite via wasapi or asio
I will use them to connect to my Yamaha A-S501
I know it's a silly question
will I hear the difference between the realtek and these 2 audio cards ?
thanks in advanced

Re: is it worth to buy an external dac ?

Reply #1 –
sound different? sure, slightly but not enough that one would notice unless you abx them

the difference will be in gain, one set up might have more gain, so more volume, so louder will sound 'better' esp. with less efficient speakers

and then there's the feature set



Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?  ;~)

Re: is it worth to buy an external dac ?

Reply #2 –
Quote from: 2tec on
sound different? sure, slightly but not enough that one would notice unless you abx them

the difference will be in gain, one set up might have more gain, so more volume, so louder will sound 'better' esp. with less efficient speakers

and then there's the feature set
hi
do you know these dacs?
so will I enjoy at high volume ?
but even the many amps are not more clear at high volume even class a/b
even with SMSL PO100 AK or Topping D10s coaxial or optical cable  without noise ?
thanks

Re: is it worth to buy an external dac ?

Reply #3 –
No, of course I don't 'know' these DACs, nor do I have your 'ears'. These are general principles that I use. You, of course, should choose what you prefer. Trust your own ears.

I wouldn't attempt to discriminate between modern functional DACs.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?  ;~)

Re: is it worth to buy an external dac ?

Reply #4 –
Quote from: 2tec on
No, of course I don't 'know' these DACs, nor do I have your 'ears'. These are general principles that I use. You, of course, should choose what you prefer. Trust your own ears.

I wouldn't attempt to discriminate between modern functional DACs.
Hi
but since i have to buy online
Quote
the difference will be in gain, one set up might have more gain, so more volume, so louder will sound 'better' esp. with less efficient speakers
and
Quote
, slightly but not enough that one would notice unless you abx them
I guess I won't hear any differences
the realtek are not so bad right? In wasapi the drivers should be bypassed
maybe i can hear in wasapi shared
thanks

Re: is it worth to buy an external dac ?

Reply #5 –
@francesco According to this (well-known) MEASURES, DACs matters:



Anyway the so-called "HiFi chain" can't be - of course - evaluated by the DAC quality only...
Hybrid Multimedia Production Suite will be a platform-indipendent open source suite for advanced audio/video contents production.
Official git: https://www.forart.it/HyMPS/

Re: is it worth to buy an external dac ?

Reply #6 –
Quote from: forart.eu on
@francesco According to this (well-known) MEASURES, DACs matters:



Anyway the so-called "HiFi chain" can't be - of course - evaluated by the DAC quality only...
hi
may i ask you a question?
have you tried dacs and build in audio card ?
can you hear the differences?
about some mesures like it , many amps are rated very poor marantz , yamaha A-S501 and so on
thanks for the graphic

Re: is it worth to buy an external dac ?

Reply #8 –
There are certainly DACs that measure better, are designed better, built better, have more features, and more gain. I would, all things being equal, choose the DAC that offered the most affordable quality and I would consider the measurements as a way to avoid a flawed design or cheap construction.  I have four DACs, two internal, two external and I use them interchangeably, unless I want volume in which case I use my most expensive external DAC which has the most amplification. 

Amps provide power, if you 'hear' an amp, it's being driven into distortion and you simply need a bigger amp.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?  ;~)

Re: is it worth to buy an external dac ?

Reply #9 –
Quote from: 2tec on
There are certainly DACs that measure better, are designed better, built better, have more features, and more gain. I would, all things being equal, choose the DAC that offered the most affordable quality and I would consider the measurements as a way to avoid a flawed design or cheap construction.  I have four DACs, two internal, two external and I use them interchangeably, unless I want volume in which case I use my most expensive external DAC which has the most amplification. 

Amps provide power, if you 'hear' an amp, it's being driven into distortion and you simply need a bigger amp.
hi
may i ask you which dac do you use?
and if you have compare with you laptop ,desktop or imac build in audio card?
thanks

Re: is it worth to buy an external dac ?

Reply #10 –
There's a ESS ES9023P realtek on the motherboard, ESS ES9023P on the xonar, Teac UD_H01 and a Krell 30i. "The 24 bit data is then fed to four differentially configured Burr Brown 20 bit Co-linear DAC’s" The Krell also has serious pre-amplification; it's a beast.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?  ;~)

Re: is it worth to buy an external dac ?

Reply #11 –
Quote from: francesco on
I will use them to connect to my Yamaha A-S501
Is your Realtek connected to the Yamaha via digital? If so, I doubt an external DAC would make an audible difference.

Re: is it worth to buy an external dac ?

Reply #13 –
Anecdotal and subjective: If I didn't make music I am not sure if I would buy an external audio interface in 2024. I have an RME Fireface 802 connected to Event Precision 8 monitors and on the occasions I decide to just use the motherboard's (Asus B550) internal audio I am quite satisfied actually.

Re: is it worth to buy an external dac ?

Reply #14 –
Quote from: punkrockdude on
Anecdotal and subjective: If I didn't make music I am not sure if I would buy an external audio interface in 2024. I have an RME Fireface 802 connected to Event Precision 8 monitors and on the occasions I decide to just use the motherboard's (Asus B550) internal audio I am quite satisfied actually.
hi
but Asus B550 does include a great audio chipset , about the realtek 800 series  for what i have read they are not so great ,above all the analog output
I don't know if you had some exerience with such chipset
thanks

Re: is it worth to buy an external dac ?

Reply #15 –
Quote from: francesco on
Quote from: punkrockdude on
Anecdotal and subjective: If I didn't make music I am not sure if I would buy an external audio interface in 2024. I have an RME Fireface 802 connected to Event Precision 8 monitors and on the occasions I decide to just use the motherboard's (Asus B550) internal audio I am quite satisfied actually.
hi
but Asus B550 does include a great audio chipset , about the realtek 800 series  for what i have read they are not so great ,above all the analog output
I don't know if you had some exerience with such chipset
thanks
I can not answer that, unfortunately. I don't have much knowledge about motherboard converters/chipsets. Hopefully someone else can is able to give you an answer.

Re: is it worth to buy an external dac ?

Reply #16 –
If you're looking for an affordable headphone DAC, consider trying the Fosi Audio K5 Pro Gaming DAC.
EZ CD Audio Converter / FLAC or WavPack

Re: is it worth to buy an external dac ?

Reply #17 –
Quote from: soundping on
If you're looking for an affordable headphone DAC, consider trying the Fosi Audio K5 Pro Gaming DAC.
hi
yes i'm thinking about or the Fosi Audio K5 Pro Gaming or SMSL PO100AK or Topping D10S
the beauty to use the asio ,is that it will work as wasapi event without taking exclusive control of the device ,right?
i don't need to resample if i use asio
thanks

Re: is it worth to buy an external dac ?

Reply #18 –
if your internal dac have at least this parameters:

THD, IMD: -66 dBFS / 0.05%
Noise: -85 dBFS / 0.005%
Frequency response: ±0.5 dB
changing for a "best" dac isn't audible when used as line out to amplifier.

if you use your internal dac with headphones:
it is possible than use a headphone amp (<2 ohm output impedance and high power) be change the sound.


Music is my first love.

Re: is it worth to buy an external dac ?

Reply #19 –
Quote from: Melomane on
if your internal dac have at least this parameters:

THD, IMD: -66 dBFS / 0.05%
Noise: -85 dBFS / 0.005%
Frequency response: ±0.5 dB
changing for a "best" dac isn't audible when used as line out to amplifier.

if you use your internal dac with headphones:
it is possible than use a headphone amp (<2 ohm output impedance and high power) be change the sound.
hi
about these parameters ,where can i find ?
the manufacter doesn't show or release
thanks

Re: is it worth to buy an external dac ?

Reply #20 –
Quote from: francesco on
the manufacter doesn't show or release

If a manufacturer doesn't headline their specifications, you can be sure the specifications are mediocre!
It's your privilege to disagree, but that doesn't make you right and me wrong.

Re: is it worth to buy an external dac ?

Reply #21 –
If the store you are buying from offers free returns, why don't you just buy it and try it. We don't have your ears and can't tell you what YOU can hear. People can give you specs but again we can't tell you if you will hear any differences. Just try it and send it back if you're not happy.
 

Re: is it worth to buy an external dac ?

Reply #23 –
Main problem with motherboard integrated audio in the past was that it was easily affected by electrical noise. They were so easy to pick up noises that for example something so simple as your hard drive reading data or you moving the computer mouse caused chirping sounds in line-out. Another common problem was that the output had a constant background hiss.

Note that the above mentioned noises were rather quiet. Easy to hear if you had headphones plugged in to the output, but since speakers are much further away from ears you might miss them unless the volume is quite high.

These have been solved issues for many years now at least in better motherboards.

If you don't have unwanted background noises with your current audio solution you will almost certainly not hear any quality improvements from getting another DAC with music or any normal sounds.
You might get some theoretical improvements like better channel isolation or protection against intersample clipping, but these cause audible problems only with test signals.

If you are curious to test how well your current integrated soundcard performs, you can easily get an idea by testing it with RightMark Audio Analyzer. You only need a cable to connect the output from line-out to line-in. The results won't be perfectly accurate as quality of the line-in will degrade the measurements. But it will be a good estimate.

Re: is it worth to buy an external dac ?

Reply #24 –
Quote from: francesco on
i'm talking about realtek , they don't release a lot of informations about audio chipsets
As a professional engineer (not audio), I could not build a system around components which had no published specification (for specifications which mattered in the final product).  The reason for that is lack of accountability: for a product to meet its specification, its components have to meet their specifications, or be subject to rigorous testing in-house to determine their specifications (an expensive process).

A typical consumer-grade PC is not aimed at audiophiles, so the makers are not concerned about audiophile specifications.  Therefore an audiophile user cannot rely on guaranteed performance for noise, THD etc.

There are three solutions to this:
  • Find an audiophile supplier of PCs;
  • Use an external DAC with published performance specifications;
  • Listen to (or test) the audio output from your existing PC and decide whether it is good enough for yourself.

Notebooks can get much better simply by unplugging from the mains and running off battery.

I realise you were wondering whether you would notice any improvement by switching to an external DAC and whether the investment would be worthwhile.  Unfortunately only you can decide that, it depends how good your ears are (and how much it matters to you).  Personally, I don't think I would notice any difference.  What you do get with an external DAC is better connectors (the 3.5mm stereo socket is a weak link)!
It's your privilege to disagree, but that doesn't make you right and me wrong.