HydrogenAudio

With LAME 3.97b2 now being the standard for MP3 and people moving on from 3.90.3, 3.96.1 etc., it makes sense to me to make a poll to find out what everyone is doing with 3.97b2.

Please be nice and explain why you have chosen your answer

I use -V5 --vbr-new.

• I have personally never noticed any issues at this level, athough that isn't surprising as my ears aren't the best.
• I listen to a lot of my music in the car, or at work where my enjoyment is occassionally interupted by me having to do some programming, i.e.: listening conditions aren't perfect.  Oh, add two young kids to that list.
• Testing performed by those with much better ears than I have proved that it is near-transparent, and that makes me feel warm and fuzzy (and a little less inadequate).

Mid bitrate VBR: -V 3 --vbr-new... -V 5 --vbr-new

Did a fair bit of testing of material I typically listen to, and I'm happy enough with the above.  Usually it's V3 but I'm trying V5 a bit lately. 

The LAME folk have done an impressive job.

With the prices of flash memory going under the ground, size is not a matter any more, so -V 2 --vbr-new is just perfect for me.

I use -V1 --vbr-new --noreplaygain --scale x.xxxx, because my personal anal retentive factor lies somewhere between -V2 and -V0.

Regards,
Madrigal

-V2 --vbr-new --noreplaygain  most of the time (occasionally V0 for stuff I "care" about more). There's no reason to not use at least -V2, since the size increase is negligible and I'd rather reduce the risk of artifacts.

Where does "-V 2 -vbr-new -Y" fit in?
I use that the most...

BTW I consider -V5 my low bitrate.

-V5 --vbr-new

-V3 --vbr-new
though V4 is already transparent to me, and most of the time V5 as well

I'm using: -V 2 --vbr-new -Y
That is in fact the cross between High bitrate VBR & Mid bitrate VBR.
I want to have the best quality but avoid the sfb21 bloat. Expression in this thread (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=43804).

-V3 --vbr-new --noreplaygain for music (as voted)

-V6 --vbr-new --noreplaygain for audiobooks

I know that some people actually use something along V2 (or even losless) for home stereo and so on and V5 for portable use which leads to 2 different libraries. Me, I use itunes and my ipod with the above settings and a losless image for backup purposes only (burnt to DVD). Hence, I feel like V3 is a good compromise for just one library.

Regards, Phil

i use -V2 --vbr-new for high quality music and -V9 --vbr-new -mm for audiobooks.

-V2 --vbr-new for me.

I've done several listening tests comparing -V2 --vbr-new to lossless files and to me there's no difference whatsoever.

The fact that foobar2000 comes with this setting as default for mp3 encoding says a lot.

I've recently switched back to LAME MP3 from iTunes AAC and have chosen -V 2 --vbr-new as my setting.  I wanted high quality files without the mass amount of data that lossless files would give me and -V 2 may as well be lossless to my ears.

Me sig says it all  .

-V 4 --vbr-new

My personal "standard preset" for portable player usage (in -V 5 I find artifacts quite often).  Of course that's only when it must be MP3, otherwise I prefer -q 4 OGG.

Where does "-V 2 -vbr-new -Y" fit in?

I know this was going to come up, I guess -V 2 --vbr-new -Y could be counted as High bitrate VBR because it gives higher bitrates than -V 3 --vbr-new and the scale I used in the poll options lists -V 3 and below as Mid bitrate.

I have voted for other...

Quote from: GeSomeone on 2006-06-12 11:17:43

Where does "-V 2 -vbr-new -Y" fit in?

I know this was going to come up, I guess -V 2 --vbr-new -Y could be counted as High bitrate VBR because it gives higher bitrates than -V 3 --vbr-new and the scale I used in the poll options lists -V 3 and below as Mid bitrate.

-V3 --vbr-new

I use it because it's the highest setting that incorporates -Y automatically.  I suppose I could use -V2 --vbr-new -Y.  I actually did try that and the bit-rate difference between that and -V3 was insignificant.

I use -v3 --vbr-new

A great compromise between quality and size, especially with portable players. Most of my music are in the 150-170 range, which is to me the sweet spot for bitrates.

I am old fashioned, cbr 192k jstereo.

-V 5 --vbr-new for classical music
-V 2 --vbr-new for non-classical music

LAME 3.97b2 has problems (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=39313), so I use 398a3 in some cases that distortions are easily audible.

jstereo

omg y u wanna destroy stereo ??ß?ß

I go with -V 6 --vbr-new as I use MP3 for my portable that only supports MP3 and WMA, the latter not being an option for me. When listening to music outside, I don't notice any artefacts that I would possibly spot when ABXing on my PC. At home, I use Vorbis.

-V1 -- vbrnew

... for just that extra measure of quality assurance. It's purely psychological, I know, but what's a few MB more overall for peace of mind?

Last I used LAME, was using -V 3 --vbr-new.  Stopped doing mp3 about the last 2 months or so

LAME usage? I use cbr, abr, and vbr, from low to high br, depending upon the purpose.

Quote

jstereo

omg y u wanna destroy stereo ??ß?ß

You forgot to put the <sarcasm> tag.

Quote

jstereo

omg y u wanna destroy stereo ??ß?ß

  who said that Joint Stereo destroys stereo (at least in Lame)???

edit: oops, missed the second page, it was already mentioned.......

You forgot to put the <sarcasm> tag.

Sorry, I thougt it'd be obvious enough. Here you go:
<sarcasm> </sarcasm>
Just put these in my first post where you think they're appropriate .

Edit: messed up the quotebox.

High bitrate (V2 --vbr-new).

I only have one set of MP3 files that I listen to both indoors over stereo equipment and outdoors on my iPod. I have a laptop, and I don't have enough internal storage right now to justify keeping my lossless files on there, so I leave those archived on an external hard drive and backed up to DVD-R and just use the MP3 files. Because I want the sound quality to hold up in many different listening environments, I just go for V2 --vbr-new.

with an average bitrate of ~190kbps -V2 --vbr-new is a no brainer for me

When I use MP3 I tend to use -V2 --vbr-new the most however I've used the entire -V3 through -V5 range as well depending on the purpose.

-V4 --vbr-new in general;
-V3 --vbr-new if -V4 is not enough;

(and aoTuV -q5 if even that's not enough).

-V5 --vbr-new --athaa-sensititvity 1 with 3.98a3.

• --athaa-sensitivity lowers the ringing issues occuring on quiet moments
• 3.98a corrects the "rumbling" (or "sandpaper noise") audible mostly on tonal moments
• V5 keeps the bitrate on a friendly basis for a portable player with limited storage capavity

=> average bitrate = 130...135 kbps and sound quality is near excellent on my MP3 player (a bit less enjoying at home with better headphones). Only disapointment: stronger distortions on (solo) harpsichord.

V0 --vbr-new as a substitute for lossless (The flacs stay archived on DVDs). I find it perfect for nearly all of classical music.

-V5 --vbr-new --athaa-sensititvity 1 with 3.98a3.

• --athaa-sensitivity lowers the ringing issues occuring on quiet moments
• 3.98a corrects the "rumbling" (or "sandpaper noise") audible mostly on tonal moments
• V5 keeps the bitrate on a friendly basis for a portable player with limited storage capavity

=> average bitrate = 130...135 kbps and sound quality is near excellent on my MP3 player (a bit less enjoying at home with better headphones). Only disapointment: stronger distortions on (solo) harpsichord.

"-V5 --vbr-new --athaa-sensititvity 1"
is that now default for -V5 in 3.98a4 ?

If size is a factor, I use anything from -V 5 -h --vbr-new to -V 2 -h -Y --vbr-new.  If size isn't a factor, I use -b 320 -h or -V 0 -h --vbr-new.  -V 2 -h --vbr-new and -V 1 -h --vbr-new don't have much practical use for me, because they're overkill when size is a factor and not the best I can use when it isn't.

--preset medium --vbr-new
I don't really know what that preset refers to, but I think it's the same as -V 4 --vbr-new.

-V5 --vbr-new --athaa-sensititvity 1 with 3.98a3.

• --athaa-sensitivity lowers the ringing issues occuring on quiet moments
• 3.98a corrects the "rumbling" (or "sandpaper noise") audible mostly on tonal moments
• V5 keeps the bitrate on a friendly basis for a portable player with limited storage capavity

=> average bitrate = 130...135 kbps and sound quality is near excellent on my MP3 player (a bit less enjoying at home with better headphones). Only disapointment: stronger distortions on (solo) harpsichord.

Damn, if -V5 --vbr-new --athaa-sensititvity 1 with 3.98a3 is good enough for guru, then it's good enough for me!

"-V5 --vbr-new --athaa-sensititvity 1"
is that now default for -V5 in 3.98a4 ?

Good question...

EDIT: No, --athaa-sensititvity 1 is not default in 3.98a4. -V 5 --vbr-new with and without the athaa switch produces different filesizes by a few kb (larger with --athaa-sensititvity 1).

And look! the same typo five times!

-V1 -- vbrnew

... for just that extra measure of quality assurance. It's purely psychological, I know, but what's a few MB more overall for peace of mind?

I wouldn't say that V1 is purely psychological... With bit rates of ~210kbps, they aren't quite 320kbps CBR, but are certainly a good bit ahead of V3-V5:

HA Chart (http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/images/2/2c/Lame-chart-2.png)

i wonder how many of the "-V 0 --vbr-new... -V 2 --vbr-new" can ABX -V4 or even -V5 (i can't)

-V2 --vbr new. Surprisingly, there is a HUGE difference to my ears between V2 and V3 for MP3s ripped to CD and played on my car stereo. V3 does not sound good at all while V2 sounds great. On the iPod, V3 sounds better - but still use V2 as it works for all devices I listen to music on and don't want 2 sets of MP3s in my library.

-V2 --vbr-new for music
-V7 --vbr-new for audiobooks

I Use in 99% of cases 256 or 320 with stereo.If the result is not enough to me in 256,320. I don't worry about the space utilized , I will just worry about space if I was wearing a lossless.  And reading the problem with some samples I put more thrusth in this values in CBR  .I just wear VBr when i want to hear mp3' in portables(-V4 --vbr-new -b96 -ms -h).But I just use this values 'cause the problem with the samples, I have a lot of musics with samples like those  and I like so much of VBR but the problem of artifacts with these samples make me angry. 
I use the following versions for encode:3.90.3(rarely), 3.97b2(i wear this version in 99% of musics) and the newest 3.98a4(rarely)
I re-edited this 'cause an error "i wear them in 99% of musics" when the correct is "i wear this version in 99 % of musics",and put rarely infront of the coment of the 2 other versions 'cause i rarely use them,especially the 3.98a4 i use this just for problematic samples like those and when this version give more quality.

-V2 --vbr new. Surprisingly, there is a HUGE difference to my ears between V2 and V3 for MP3s ripped to CD and played on my car stereo. V3 does not sound good at all while V2 sounds great. On the iPod, V3 sounds better - but still use V2 as it works for all devices I listen to music on and don't want 2 sets of MP3s in my library.

So on your car -V 2 sounds a lot better than than -V 3, but on your iPod -V 3 is better?

Used -Aps then -preset fast medium in 3.90.3.. then -V4 in 3.96/97 now messing around with -V5 --vbr-new which sounds okay too.

Lame has been good in middle bitrates (140~170k vbr or abr) for many years and recently 135k has become quite usable.

Surprisingly, there is a HUGE difference to my ears between V2 and V3 for MP3s ripped to CD and played on my car stereo.

so, you abx, or is your "feeling"?

But I just use this values 'cause the problem with the samples, I have a lot of musics with samples like those  and I like so much of VBR but the problem of artifacts with these samples make me angry. 
I use the following versions for encode:3.90.3, 3.97b2(i wear them in 99% of musics) and the newest 3.98a4

again, is abx or just your feeling?

-V5 --vbr-new

only listening to this in car stereo via 1 GB usb-stick
or via Koss KSC 75 during running outdoors.

I can abx -V5 easily without headphones in hifi environment,
so there I play Lossless or MPC quality 7-8, ie. 220k vbr and higher.

Mareo.exe via eac is a great tool !

Mareo.exe via eac is a great tool !

glad is useful for you.

V0 VBR , because I listen to my music at home mostly, I don't have a car and don't like headphones.
So when I listen to mp3 I go for the quality since size isn't a big issue to me.

i wonder how many of the "-V 0 --vbr-new... -V 2 --vbr-new" can ABX -V4 or even -V5 (i can't)

i couldn't even abx -V7, but my equipment is rather poor so i'm sticking with -V2 for future use.

and i'm not sure that the fact that i can't abx V7 means i don't actually hear the difference.
it can be something like when you're looking for something what is just before you, but you can't find it. You saw it, probably held it in your hands, but you didn't found it. But it was still there...

EDIT: i've done my abx tests on 2 samples, so these transparent samples doesn't mean that everything on -V7 will be transparent. If i'd do more abx tests my hearing may "improve", listeting conditions may change and so.
Also i'm considering -V2 as a bit of archiving option as i don't have the possibility to go with lossless. I assume, when the day that mp3s will be less compatible comes the new option will be lossless, so the quality of my collection will be preserved.

Help with EAC and LAME.EXE moved to Setting up EAC with LAME.EXE (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=45730).

i'm not sure that the fact that i can't abx V7 means i don't actually hear the difference.

i'm sure that if i can't abx, i cant hear the difference.

Quote from: molnart on 2006-06-16 15:35:49

i'm not sure that the fact that i can't abx V7 means i don't actually hear the difference.

i'm sure that if i can't abx, i cant hear the difference.

self-confidence is something i never had...

-V1 --vbr new --lowpass 20

Generally around 256 average on the stuff I encode.

-m j -V 4 -q 0 --vbr-new

Works For Me™, though I'm mostly a Vorbis user.

-m j -V 4 -q 0 --vbr-new

"-m j" is redundant here.

i wonder how many of the "-V 0 --vbr-new... -V 2 --vbr-new" can ABX -V4 or even -V5 (i can't)

Probably not very many.  I now of at least 5 people over at ilounge that use -V 2 yet they fail ABX tests at -V 4 and -V 5.

Personally, I can't ABX -V 4 and the source lossless file unless I am in my car (with the sound cranked up) or I am using my equipment and really concentrating.  -V 3 is transparent to me.  As a rule of thumb, I always go one step higher.  So I use -V 2.  Granted, the bitrate is too high for my ears but I have a 60GB iPod and a 500GB hard drive used for lossless and lossy storage.  I think I could save about 6GB of space if I used -V 4.  To me, this really isn't worth using the decreased bitrate.

Still, -V 4 is really good.  I am still thinking about switching to -V 4 especially since my ears really can't hear a difference (unless I am concentrating but it is uncomfortable to listen to music like this).

Quote from: kwanbis on 2006-06-16 01:32:17

i wonder how many of the "-V 0 --vbr-new... -V 2 --vbr-new" can ABX -V4 or even -V5 (i can't)

Probably not very many.  I now of at least 5 people over at ilounge that use -V 2 yet they fail ABX tests at -V 4 and -V 5.

I have a few Techno tracks (now considered problem samples) that are not transparent at V2 vbr-new (ABX-ed) with normal listening conditions and crappy integrated notebook soundcard. (the most evil track is Scooter - Soul Train, ABX-able at V0 vbr-new). I can easily ABX most of V5 encodes (mainly due to lack of high frequencies).
I think that this music genre is a bit more difficult for lossy compression than others...

J.M.

For classical music it's quite simple to ABX -V 4 or -V 5 if you got really fine HiFi equipment (speakers!). But transparency noticable increases at -V 2 and above - I'm unable to ABX -V 1 or -V 0 in most cases, but for archiving purposes I want some extra bits for safety, so I'm using -V 0 or -V 2 (dependent on the source material: For piano solo -V 2 is always perfect, for complex orchestral music, I only trust -V 1 or better) most of the time.

For listening (outdoors) from my portable mp3 player of course -V 4 is already sufficient...

Two of songs I listen to frequently were trashed by 3.97 -v5 ~ v3 and I didn't even test them *that* much - it was that easy to run into trouble. Never happened with musepack 180k or wavpack 320k.

For portable playback I still use -v5 and -v4, but to say that no one can abx them and that its always safe to drop the bitrate isn't always right. They are good quality for general playback and not for archiving, transcoding or anything more.

For classical music it's quite simple to ABX -V 4 or -V 5 if you got really fine HiFi equipment (speakers!).

That's why there's that --athaa-sensitivity 1 in Guruboolez's line. LAME has too gentle ATH curves for quiet sounds.

But transparency noticable increases at -V 2 and above - I'm unable to ABX -V 1 or -V 0 in most cases,

I'm nitpicking, but transparency is binary. You're talking about quality.

For listening (outdoors) from my portable mp3 player of course -V 4 is already sufficient...

For me too, that's why I use it (actually --preset medium, which should be the same) for my portable MP3 player.
Ogg Vorbis -q 6 for HD storage, FLAC --best for archiving on DVD.

I have a few Techno tracks (now considered problem samples) [...]
I think that this music genre is a bit more difficult for lossy compression than others...

That's why I use Vorbis for HD storage - it's excellent at electronic music since Aoyumi fixed microattack problems.