HydrogenAudio

CD-R and Audio Hardware => Audio Hardware => Topic started by: c.b.2000 on 2003-05-13 04:58:26

Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: c.b.2000 on 2003-05-13 04:58:26
Our new design Flash Base Player will release June or July in China.

1.Play mp3,wma,mpc,ogg vorbis(limited)
2.32 bit ARM decoder + good DAC, 100db SNR
3.5 band EQ
4.USB Mass Storage
5.FM 76-108MHz
6.Voice and FM recorder
7.LRC or lyrics3 v2
8.Text reader
9.Multi Task

todo
1.directory play and custom playlist
2.mpc and ogg vorbis seek
3.QSound effect
4.Text reader bookmark
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: boojum on 2003-05-13 05:04:08
I'll buy it, I'll buy it!  Will it clean house, too?      Sounds super and I am looking forward to seeing it.  Good luck.   
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: ProtectYaNeck36 on 2003-05-13 06:10:52
would you be able to export to the U.S.?
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: Joseph on 2003-05-13 06:55:44
aren't mpc's rather large to be put on a flashbased device?
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: Dibrom on 2003-05-13 07:10:02
This sounds great!

Can't wait to find out more info

Btw, any chance of the player reading Ape2 tags and Vorbis comments?
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: c.b.2000 on 2003-05-13 07:24:51
support Id3v1v2, ape tag v1v2, Vorbis comment, can display title,artist and albulm

for chinese version firmware, only ascii and chinese char can be display.
current only iso8859-1 and chinese version firmware.
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: rjamorim on 2003-05-13 07:25:48
What is(are) the storage space(s)?

And, if it's big, do you plan to support lossless?
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: c.b.2000 on 2003-05-13 07:28:46
first 128MB, cost < RMB 1500
also has a Smart Media Card slot, so 256MB max now
not big enough to support lossless.
when we consider 512MB, lossless will be considered also.
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: yq on 2003-05-13 07:52:44
  (w00t)   


[span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%']I just didn't know what to say  [/span]
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: diarmait on 2003-05-13 08:16:14
Quote
cost < RMB 1500

Tuesday, May 13, 2003
1,500 Chinese Yuan Renminbi = 156.999 Euro
1,500 Chinese Yuan Renminbi = 238.073 Swiss Franc
1,500 Chinese Yuan Renminbi = 181.444 US Dollar
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: PoisonDan on 2003-05-13 09:49:56
OMG I want it NOW NOW NOW !!!  (w00t)

Will it ever be available in Europe ?

Do you plan on releasing a CD or HD based player with OGG or MPC support too ?
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: ErikS on 2003-05-13 11:12:48
Sweeeeet!!!
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: n68 on 2003-05-13 11:40:27
yup...


just the thing am been waiting for... 

btw.. is there a url..


Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: sld on 2003-05-13 11:43:32
Quote
aren't mpc's rather large to be put on a flashbased device?

Well yes probably, but in this case, any other format will be worse, if you encode them at the equivalent quality of mpc -quality 5 -xlevel (maybe a bit out of point, i guess). I assume the basic aim of this player is to give people the choice to pick the format they want to stuff in it.

If the developers can marry good audio and hardware quality with the audio 'standards' that HA.org practises, yeah, it's going to be a hit (at least with HA.org-ers), and I hope they'll sell it in Singapore too. 

Edit: How do you quote with reference to an earlier post?
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: David Nordin on 2003-05-13 11:44:28
interesting and nice to see.
Do you have steady contact with Frank Klemm about this? needless to say he might be of great help, but I assume you have alread settled this.
I would like to see Microdrive support
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: JEN on 2003-05-13 12:46:36
I would be happy if it had CF type I,II, and III which would allow 3.5 and 2.5 hard drive support support  .  Currently at 320Gb
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: guruboolez on 2003-05-13 12:52:43
CompactFlash Type III ?  What's that ?
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: JEN on 2003-05-13 13:23:18
Quote
CompactFlash Type III ?   What's that ?

Its when Type I and II are used together, So 2x type I/II are needed, which I can't see happening
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: DonP on 2003-05-13 13:33:26
What is meant by "vorbis(limited)"?

I thought I read that mpc is still subject to some change, so is
updateable firmware required?
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: DonP on 2003-05-13 13:35:20
Quote
Edit: How do you quote with reference to an earlier post?

Hit the "quote" button on the post you want to quote instead of the "add reply" button at the top.
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: rjamorim on 2003-05-13 13:51:40
Quote
What is meant by "vorbis(limited)"?

Vorbis abuses on memory usage at low bitrates.

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....=ST&f=9&t=6975& (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=9&t=6975&)

BTW: @c.b.2000: You mention you supported AAC on your player, in that thread. Is it still being planned, or are there licensing issues?
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: GeSomeone on 2003-05-13 14:16:36
Quote
aren't mpc's rather large to be put on a flashbased device?

Maybe, at last there will be a reason to check out the --qualities 3 and 4 
--
Ge Someone
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: David Nordin on 2003-05-13 14:20:47
why should it be so?
subjective opinion.
I say no - you say yes.
I use a setting which yields in ~224kbps, I find this most pleasing, and the amount of files I could store on the unit whould suffice my needs, say I'd use --quality 5, this number should be even lower and yet transparent.
In the end, speaking of MPC in whole being "too large" is a subjective matter which can only be decided by oneself.
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: rjamorim on 2003-05-13 14:25:32
Quote
In the end, speaking of MPC in whole being "too large" is a subjective matter which can only be decided by oneself.

It can also be decided by comparing it to other formats, and where these formats reach "good quality" (no transparency needed, I think, since transparency usually isn't the biggest concern on flash portables, and size vs. quality efficiency is the must)

Just my opinion...
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: David Nordin on 2003-05-13 14:31:28
Quote
Quote
In the end, speaking of MPC in whole being "too large" is a subjective matter which can only be decided by oneself.

It can also be decided by comparing it to other formats, and where these formats reach "good quality" (no transparency needed, I think, since transparency usually isn't the biggest concern on flash portables, and size vs. quality efficiency is the must)

Just my opinion...

yeah, that souds reasonable.
I think now that MPC is to be portable, transparency will be more of a concern for many, and since standard is transparent at a relatively small size it's not a bad choice of encoder. One album per card.
Ideal for me would be 512MB cards :B
how nice wouldn't it be to store a lossless album on such a card :B hehe
oh well. This will be interesting to see anyway, I'm crossing my fingers for the prosperity of this project.
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: clintb on 2003-05-13 14:40:18
Quote
first 128MB, cost < RMB 1500
also has a Smart Media Card slot, so 256MB max now
not big enough to support lossless.
when we consider 512MB, lossless will be considered also.

Go with Secure Digital and right now you'll be able to go for 512MB.  As a side benefit, SD cards can be used in PDA's.
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: guruboolez on 2003-05-13 14:40:46
Quote
first 128MB, cost < RMB 1500
also has a Smart Media Card slot, so 256MB max now
not big enough to support lossless.
when we consider 512MB, lossless will be considered also.

I can't undestand the SmartMedia choice. This format is now stopped ; 128 Mb is the maximum ; robustness isn't very good (I killed some of mine). Why not Compact Flash ? There are universal, very cheap (256 MB cards are reasonably priced, and you can store 2h30 at insane profile), robust...
SD cards, MMC, Xd... are smaller than SmartMedia.

Are there some licensing issues ?
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: wynlyndd on 2003-05-13 14:44:16
Why Smart Media? I have money tied up in CF for my digital camera.
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: David Nordin on 2003-05-13 14:45:42
Compact Flash indeed, and with that, support for Microdrive is not distant.
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: JEN on 2003-05-13 14:53:01
I though microdrive would work on any Type II CF ???
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: liekloo on 2003-05-13 14:58:03
Thank you for the news, c.b.2000! 
Keep us up to date! 
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: clintb on 2003-05-13 15:17:00
Compact Flash would be good, but it's bigger and *supposedly* draws more power.  I'm certainly not against using CF, but the world is moving towards smaller cards and SD fits that mould nicely.
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: JEN on 2003-05-13 15:20:52
Quote
Compact Flash would be good, but it's bigger and *supposedly* draws more power.  I'm certainly not against using CF, but the world is moving towards smaller cards and SD fits that mould nicely.

If you want small, the future is mini-SD, or RS-MMC
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: CiTay on 2003-05-13 15:29:41
Left to right: CF, Smartmedia, SD, xD.

http://www.imaging-resource.com/NPICS1/OLY...RD_COMP_1_L.JPG (http://www.imaging-resource.com/NPICS1/OLYMPUS_XDCARD_COMP_1_L.JPG)
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: c.b.2000 on 2003-05-13 15:43:12
Quote
What is meant by "vorbis(limited)"?

I thought I read that mpc is still subject to some change, so is
updateable firmware required?

vorbis support limited to libVorbis I 20020717 32-48khz, >=64kbps
firmware can be updated throught usb port.
aac support need Dolby license.
CF is bigger and need nore power
MMC is expencive than SMC
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: DickD on 2003-05-13 15:52:07
This sounds very cool for an MPC --quality 5 --xlevel user like me, especially if it manages to play gaplessly between files. No need to transcode, just put 2 or 3 albums on the portable and go. (And given that my current portable is an old Sony MD Walkman, with 74 minutes per disc, this would be a step up)

100dB SNR sounds good if there's no low-level hiss when playing it quietly and/or with high sensitivity headphones.

The one thing I didn't see that I'd really want is ReplayGain support (from APEv2 tag and vorbiscomment, with selectable Album or Track Gain mode). If it had that (it would only need to read the tags I've added in Foobar2000 and apply the correct volume change - it wouldn't have to scan files to calculate their loudness), then I'd be utterly smitten!

I'd been thinking that my ideal portable might end up being something that would run Foobar2000 on a portable or a pocket PC with a good DAC and good audio circuitry, as nobody else seemed willing to make one with the features and format I want. If that would also support foo_crossfeed.dll for listening on headphones/earphones (or implement crossfeed in hardware), and would support playlists of my favourite compilations, I'd be completely satisfied.

Getting more far-fetched... Ideally the "front end" would also be lightweight and detachable from the media device so it could be upgraded to a large but bulkier hard disk (great for recording, if it has a good line-in and ADC), could use light and small compact flash or smart media (great for casual use and while running/cycling if it's light enough), or could support CD or DVD media or perhaps even MiniDisc discs, or could even have storage devices shaped like audio cassettes so you can play it in car tape decks etc. (there's already a flash MP3 player in the UK, carrying BT's brand that looks like and acts as a cassette as well as having its own headphone jack). Preferably these storage media would also be capable of daisychaining (each plugs into the previous one) so you can transfer files between them. And preferably it could also be used to transfer files to and from computers.

But if this thing has all I need for great sound, I'd be very happy with that, so I look forward to finding out.
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: wynlyndd on 2003-05-13 16:05:28
Quote
Compact Flash would be good, but it's bigger and *supposedly* draws more power.  I'm certainly not against using CF, but the world is moving towards smaller cards and SD fits that mould nicely.

Yeah but the problem with these smaller cards is that the capacity just really isn't there yet. I have 512mb CF card and would get a bigger one if there was an mpc CF based player. The largest Smart Media card I have been able to find is 128MB. since my MPC files have been averaging about 6-7MB that is only about 18-21 songs. Hardly worth it except for the thrill of finally someone making a hardware mpc device.
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: wynlyndd on 2003-05-13 16:07:12
Quote
Quote
first 128MB, cost < RMB 1500
also has a Smart Media Card slot, so 256MB max now
not big enough to support lossless.
when we consider 512MB, lossless will be considered also.

Go with Secure Digital and right now you'll be able to go for 512MB.  As a side benefit, SD cards can be used in PDA's.

Who makes the 512 SD cards? I have only seen 256 right now.
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: tigre on 2003-05-13 16:11:32
Quote
Quote
Quote
first 128MB, cost < RMB 1500
also has a Smart Media Card slot, so 256MB max now
not big enough to support lossless.
when we consider 512MB, lossless will be considered also.

Go with Secure Digital and right now you'll be able to go for 512MB.  As a side benefit, SD cards can be used in PDA's.

Who makes the 512 SD cards? I have only seen 256 right now.

e.g. here (http://zxpro.com/flash/SD512.htm),
found by this google search (http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Secure+Digital%22+512+SD&sourceid=opera&num=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8).

EDIT:
Quote
Slap me with a wet noodle.

LOL
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: wynlyndd on 2003-05-13 16:22:14
Quote
Quote

Who makes the 512 SD cards? I have only seen 256 right now.

e.g. here (http://zxpro.com/flash/SD512.htm),
found by this google search (http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Secure+Digital%22+512+SD&sourceid=opera&num=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8).

okay duh...ya got me...i went to a couple of manufacturers sites but hadn't done a google search. Slap me with a wet noodle.

Wow...alot more expensive than a 512MB CF. i guess it's a trade off in size and power consumption...
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: Benjamin Lebsanft on 2003-05-13 16:56:37
CF II support would be nice, even if my batteries don't last that long. I already own a microdrive so it would be be nice to use it in the player!
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: DonP on 2003-05-13 17:22:50
Quote
vorbis support limited to libVorbis I 20020717 32-48khz, >=64kbps

And the pundits say there's nothing to be gained by transcoding to a higher bit rate!
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: user on 2003-05-13 22:58:13
users' opinion:

If once the great work is done of programming an mpc decoder for the flash based player,

it should not be much work to adjust it and built into a standalone DVD/CD-Player !

Because even cheap stand-alone players have normally perfect sound quality by digital out, and MPC stands for Quality !

Another goal (besides flash based player):

CD-R based players......




Many many thanks in advance....
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: LordSyl on 2003-05-13 23:27:45
Why doesn't the player support replaygain? Isn't it just a preamp?
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: Artemis3 on 2003-05-14 01:10:29
c.b.2000:

Can you PM me with details for resellers? (ie. bulk prices)
Will you make CD and HD based players too? Support for more languages? Thanks.
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: Pop E Chu on 2003-05-23 01:48:16
im looking for a portable DVD-mp3/Ogg player
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: mmortal03 on 2003-05-23 05:18:09
Quote
im looking for a portable DVD-mp3/Ogg player

yeah, I want something along those lines too...supposedly there are DVD players that play DVD-mp3 discs (Data DVD's with mp3s on them) , so possibly eventually...I'll have to get a DVD burner first though...but if they make it DVD, they will want to put DVD Video support on it, for pointless reasons, and that'll just make it too big.
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: feces1223 on 2003-05-23 15:37:55
first mpc player sounds cool! hopefully it will spread the popularity of the format thus forcing apple to have a firmware update with support!  erm... sorry i just ordered a 15 gb and i have to admit just by the description, i'm already jealous  do you have design pics or anything similar?
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: voltron on 2003-07-23 22:32:29
Original post said June/July. Anymore news on this considering July is almost up
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: fireballuk2001 on 2003-07-24 00:12:48
Yes... more news would be great!
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: Niwatori on 2003-07-24 00:38:41
where can get more info about it - -" ? any website ?
  ( hope will have anychance to see DVD,CD base version... in future. )
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: voltron on 2003-07-24 22:33:31
Quote
where can get more info about it - -" ? any website ?
  ( hope will have anychance to see DVD,CD base version... in future. )

How about any version... now?
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: R.A.F. on 2003-07-24 22:41:26
Quote
aren't mpc's rather large to be put on a flashbased device?

Only if you have encoded your MPC´s in a (not necessary) higher quality-level than 5. Remember: Average MPC-bitrate of --q5 is only 170 kbps.

But maybe a breakthru for MPC - same milestone was the plugin for Nero a few months ago. But did you notice? - With Nero 6 the plugins don´t work anymore. 

Hmmm..... i just see, that the original post is already more than 2 months old. Maybe it would be good, if the author would make a statement now, how the things stand on that project.
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: FuRaL66 on 2003-07-24 23:07:21
That sounds very interesting and takes MPC's last disadvantage! any more nesw & infos? about that?
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: Artemis3 on 2003-07-24 23:44:12
After trying replaygain, i believe this is a MUST for any portable device, and it looks pretty easy to implement.
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: guruboolez on 2003-07-25 00:11:27
Quote
But did you notice? - With Nero 6 the plugins don´t work anymore. 

Off-topic (sorry), but I've no problem with old plug-in and Nero 6. At least for reencoding operations (ape & mpc -> HE-AAC).
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: torok on 2003-07-25 03:14:29
Well, that was a nice topic. Now let's all go back to the reality where there exists no such device.
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: rjamorim on 2003-07-25 03:17:12
Quote
Off-topic (sorry), but I've no problem with old plug-in and Nero 6. At least for reencoding operations (ape & mpc -> HE-AAC).

Just to add some info: Also Nero6 plugins work on 5.5. I'm using the HE AAC plugin with my Nero 5.5.10.42
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: tangent on 2003-07-25 05:27:36
Quote
Vorbis abuses on memory usage at low bitrates.

Use more = abuse?
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: rjamorim on 2003-07-25 05:33:30
Quote
Use more = abuse?

Uses too much
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: 12345 on 2003-07-25 08:12:48
As with all hardware supporting the freaky formats of this limited audiophile community I believe it exists when I see it or when somebody else has seen it, and touched it, and tried it.
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: Tomcat on 2003-07-25 11:34:51
It was a clever, intelligent joke - as it seems to me from the start of this thread 
And until now 
But ... nice idea, and I'm believing in miracle.
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: c.b.2000 on 2003-08-04 00:01:31
http://www.dfan.com.cn/read.php?ID=527 (http://www.dfan.com.cn/read.php?ID=527)
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: rjamorim on 2003-08-04 01:18:41
Babelfish to the rescue!


Surmounting classics MSC DM-N128+

Publication time: On June 10, 2003

N128+ is the MSC classical type N128 promotion version, to N128 at the same time which carries on further consummates, joins some newest technology and the function, is in the present MP3 king of function, all-round champion.



Function introduction that,
1. In sets at 128MB the FLASH memory
2. Supports MP3, WMA, WAV and so on the many kinds of audio frequency form broadcast, simultaneously may do then takes along the hard disk use.
3. Supports the FM numeral frequency modulation reception function
4.E-DISK namely inserts namely (98 is an exception with WINDOWS)
5. The especially big screen, may demonstrate information and so on song name, supports, various countries' writing and each kind of typeface and so on English, and the concurrently back light function, at night uses also facilitates freely.
6. The operation contact surface menu demonstrated that, facilitates the use
7. Multi-purpose ear 机线controlling operation
8. The power loss is low, a AA battery may broadcast above for 10 hours
The 9.USB connection, the connection is convenient, downloading speed 390KB/S.
10. The acoustic fidelity is good, is equipped with the high bass and the numeral volume control function
11. Has the digital sound recording function, also the acoustic fidelity is clear
12. Has (POP) popularly, knight (JAZZ), 摇滚 (ROCK), is classical (CLASSIC) four kind of broadcasts styles, you may have one's wish the choice; At the same time, also may the homemade individuality style broadcast pattern (CUSTOM)
13. Has the many kinds of EQ pattern (Jazz, Classic, Rock, Pop, User Mode)
14. In sets at the electricity story-telling script function, the user may consult the telephone number and so on the related information.
15. From defines machine the picture, fully manifests the user the individuality.
16. The attachment game function, black and white game and so on chess, gluttonous snake, Russian block takes to the user more pleasure.
17. Ten thousand years calendar and the clock function, will be allowed to inquire some year some month some day correlation data and so on date and current time.
18. The text reading function, suitablly loves the book public figure.
19.A-B duplicate reads the function, helps you to be quicker, studies the foreign language well.
20. 独具特色 the multi- duties operation function, the user may on the one hand listen to the music on the other hand to play the game, meanwhile may read the stochastic text, fully sympathizes in the fashion the person.
21. Support lyrics synchronization demonstration function, so long as has the standard the LRC lyrics document, then while broadcasts the MP3 music, demonstrates the music lyrics on the screen.
22. The on-line promotion software function, the user will be allowed to enjoy to from now on more more perfect functions
23. Supports the Windows98/ME/2000/XP operating system
24. External dimensions: 57.5 (width) x 83.6 (long) x 17.2 (is high) mm

(http://www.dfan.com.cn/photo/2003/06/10/1055236558.jpg)

MSC DM-N128+
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: rjamorim on 2003-08-04 01:20:29
another detail BabelFish translated (located near the bottom, the comments section)

"How does this kind of contour design everybody to think? Very long has not seen the such ugly MP3 player, today long experience!"

Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: music_man_mpc on 2003-08-04 01:45:08
Quote
supporting the freaky formats of this limited audiophile community

If by freaky you mean FREAKIN' AMAZING and by limited you mean AUDITORALLY ENLIGHTENED.  Then I agree entirely with your statment.
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: Negative Zero on 2003-08-04 02:04:33
I see no mention of MPC support anywhere on that page.
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: mmortal03 on 2003-08-04 04:16:51
Quote
I see no mention of MPC support anywhere on that page.

Yeah, seriously...
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: Mac on 2003-08-04 14:54:24
Hahaha, a 128mb player that supports WAV
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: guruboolez on 2003-08-04 14:58:33
Quote
I see no mention of MPC support anywhere on that page.

Maybe unofficial mpc support (in order to avoid some legal problems). Dream must go on...
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: ChrisGranger on 2003-08-04 16:19:32
Quote
Babelfish to the rescue!

[snip]

14. In sets at the electricity story-telling script function, the user may consult the telephone number and so on the related information.

[snip]

Whoa, you mean if I use it to phone somebody, they will tell me a story about electricity?! Wow! This is exactly the feature I was looking for in a portable! Hehe.   

You've got to love the way Babelfish mangles languages sometimes. Then again, its Chinese is better than mine. 
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: sld on 2003-08-04 16:27:18
Lol. If I had studied my chinese better I'll rather do the translation for you guys than babelfish...
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: R.A.F. on 2003-08-06 06:00:51
Good news, guys : I learned to know a chinese woman 2 years ago over ICQ. She originally wanted to marry me  . Maybe I should re-contact her and give her new hope..... First test of her true love to me is, that she has to translate the promotion-text above.

Quote
17. Ten thousand years calendar and the clock function, will be allowed to inquire some year some month some day correlation data and so on date and current time.

Hahah. - Don´t the developers think, their player is a little bit "overtuned"?
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: R.A.F. on 2003-08-06 06:17:28
Quote
Quote
But did you notice? - With Nero 6 the plugins don?t work anymore. 

Off-topic (sorry), but I've no problem with old plug-in and Nero 6. At least for reencoding operations (ape & mpc -> HE-AAC).

Also off topic, also sorry.... Just for the record: It was because Nero 6 changes the path where to find the plugins by default. But if you fix this, all the plugins work fine indeed.
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: R.A.F. on 2003-08-06 07:01:10
Quote
aren't mpc's rather large to be put on a flashbased device?

Indeed. Actually I don´t have any MP3-flash-player, so I had no idea, how many songs only fit on 128 MB....
Here is the result of my calculations, how many MPC-songs fit on a 128 MB flash-memory-card (assumed every song lasts 4 minutes):

--q 5 (176 kbps avg. bitrate): ~ 24 songs. (= 1 song has 5,156 MB)
--q 6 (206 kbps avg. bitrate): ~ 21 songs. (= 1 song has 6,035 MB)
--q 7 (235 kbps avg. bitrate): ~ 18 songs. (= 1 song has 6,885 MB)
--q 8 (265 kbps avg. bitrate): ~ 16 songs. (= 1 song has 7,764 MB)

for comparing:
MP3 128 (128 kbps avg. bitrate): ~ 34 songs. (= 1 song has 3,750 MB)

Conclusion: 128 MB is *maybe* enough for 128 kbit MP3´s, but in no way for the MPC-format. 
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: 12345 on 2003-08-06 07:35:42
Quote
Conclusion: 128 MB is *maybe* enough for 128 kbit MP3´s, but in no way for the MPC-format. 

Hmm... MPC doesn't cease working well below q 5, I think we can pretty clearly see that in Robertos little test:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=11936 (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=11936)
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: 12345 on 2003-08-06 07:38:00
Quote
If by freaky you mean FREAKIN' AMAZING and by limited you mean AUDITORALLY ENLIGHTENED.  Then I agree entirely with your statment.

Yes, as in FREAKIN' AMAZING, otherwise it wouldn't make much sense hanging around here.
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: Negative Zero on 2003-08-06 07:54:01
Ha ha ha! The translation errors you guys have pointed out are funny as hell.    A story about electricity, a 10-thousand year calendar, the fun never stops with this one-of-a-kind product!

Quick, somebody tell me what day of the week New Year's 7432 is gonna be! If only I had a dependable DM-N128+ by my side to tell me those important details.
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: rjamorim on 2003-08-06 08:28:18
Quote
Robertos little test

Little? WTF!
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: ChrisGranger on 2003-08-06 08:51:50
Quote
Quote
aren't mpc's rather large to be put on a flashbased device?

Indeed. Actually I don´t have any MP3-flash-player, so I had no idea, how many songs only fit on 128 MB....
Here is the result of my calculations, how many MPC-songs fit on a 128 MB flash-memory-card (assumed every song lasts 4 minutes):

--q 5 (176 kbps avg. bitrate): ~ 24 songs. (= 1 song has 5,156 MB)
--q 6 (206 kbps avg. bitrate): ~ 21 songs. (= 1 song has 6,035 MB)
--q 7 (235 kbps avg. bitrate): ~ 18 songs. (= 1 song has 6,885 MB)
--q 8 (265 kbps avg. bitrate): ~ 16 songs. (= 1 song has 7,764 MB)

for comparing:
MP3 128 (128 kbps avg. bitrate): ~ 34 songs. (= 1 song has 3,750 MB)

Conclusion: 128 MB is *maybe* enough for 128 kbit MP3´s, but in no way for the MPC-format. 

I don't think anyone (or at least not many) would use MPC quality 8 on a portable. This has been discussed extensively here: quality 5 is transparent for most people with most music. Quality 5 is plenty transparent for portable use in my opinion, and 24+ 4-minute songs isn't bad at all for the use of a superior-to-MP3 format.
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: ChrisGranger on 2003-08-06 09:02:40
Quote
Quote
Robertos little test

Little? WTF!

I think by little he meant, um, big? 

I agree with 12345 though, MPC is better than MP3 even at lower bitrates and I would definitely be willing to use quality 4 MPCs in a 128MB portable. (More memory is always nice of course, but it costs more too.) Many people with trained ears have trouble ABXing q5 MPCs, so q4 would probably be good enough for portables since they're often used in noisier environments with lower resolution headphones, for less critical listening.

And hey, it's got a 10,000 year calendar! Hehe.
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: Dologan on 2003-08-06 09:05:16
Quote
--q 5 (176 kbps avg. bitrate): ~ 24 songs. (= 1 song has 5,156 MB)
--q 6 (206 kbps avg. bitrate): ~ 21 songs. (= 1 song has 6,035 MB)
--q 7 (235 kbps avg. bitrate): ~ 18 songs. (= 1 song has 6,885 MB)
--q 8 (265 kbps avg. bitrate): ~ 16 songs. (= 1 song has 7,764 MB)

Why do many people believe that MPC does not have any settings below -q 5 or that they are bad? MPC still performs as good as any other modern codec (and still significantly better than LAME) at -q 4, which I estimate would allow you could fit around 30 songs in a 128 MB card.
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: R.A.F. on 2003-08-06 09:45:49
Quote
I don't think anyone (or at least not many) would use MPC quality 8 on a portable. This has been discussed extensively here: quality 5 is transparent for most people with most music. Quality 5 is plenty transparent for portable use in my opinion, and 24+ 4-minute songs isn't bad at all for the use of a superior-to-MP3 format.

True. But what about the downloaded ones? - I have no influence, in which quality-levels others encode. And the portion of mpc´s higher than -q5 encoded is due to the propaganda of diverse release-groups growing daily (you know, that "q7-as-a-minimum-demand"-thing). That´s why I also criticize these q7-encodings. Because of probable use in portable-players with less memory one day.
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: user on 2003-08-06 10:02:06
hmmm,

I think, talking about "downloaded stuff" is not really appropriate here.



back to topic:



1. It is great, to have a commercial player, which plays MPC.

2. MPC targets to best quality, archive quality.

3. despite MPC has proven in latest 128 kbit/s test, that it is at least as good as the other  128-specialists codecs, most MPC is in q5 and above for ARCHIVAL purposes, best quality, without compromise, ==>> NO 128 kbit/s.
IE. q5 in MPC is far above 128 k, too.

4.  CONCLUSION:

a portable MPC player is very nice.
But I and probably many other customers, would like to have a portable device, which can play ordinary & cheap CD-R's, CD-RW's.

Then space ("128 k, q5, q7, q8") would not be an issue anymore !!!



For my mp3's I have a portable, which plays CD-R and CD-RW, too.
I would buy not a flash portable, but a portable with CD-R/RW.


NEXT CONCLUSION:

Because MPC is mostly encoded at higher bitrates starting with q5, q7, and q8, for ARCHIVAL purposes, it makes a lot sense, to sell and buy a stand-alone device, which plays MPC.
A CD-Player or today:
A DVD/CD-Player, which plays DVD-V (maybe DVD-A, too), SVCD/VCD, MP3, MPC    !!!!!!!!!
Even MP3 and MPC on DVD-R/RW/+R/+RW.


I think, this Chinese company, which has developed once the portable MPC flash player, should be able to built in the Firmware, the knowledge about MPC decoder easily into other devices like portable CD-player, stand-alone DVD/CD-player for the living-rooms !!!

Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: rjamorim on 2003-08-06 10:11:27
First, why so much bold?

Second, read the thread again. So far, noone could detect if MPC is really being supported or what. And c.b.2000 disappeared again, as it seems.
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: user on 2003-08-06 12:16:59
bold:

Because I hoped, cb2000 would read here, still.

u see, drawing attention on that topic, worked, somebody answered, lol.


yeah, later on I found, that nothing helpful was written in last time..


if YOU  read the whole thread now again, you will find, I repeated my earlier request in this thread, because I found out, that people were still discussing this minor space issue etc.

A company, which writes Firmware with a mpc-decoder, should use it for portzables (flash memory & CD) AND stand-alones for living rooms.[/i]

that makes sense, even more money................
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: 12345 on 2003-08-06 12:39:02
Quote
Little? WTF!

Haha... Swedish sarcasm in action. Calm down Roberto, I think it's big, extensive & huge as hell. And best of all, I think I can speak for most people on this forum 
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: rjamorim on 2003-08-11 05:38:18
Any news here?

I frequently see c.b.2000 on the active users list, sometimes even browsing this thread. (I just saw him now)

Still, no post or clarification from him since that link to the press release.
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: R.A.F. on 2003-08-11 07:34:44
Honestly, I don´t think it is a fake at all. Because c.b.2000´s background knowledge is too high for it. And, rjamorim, I really do think MPC is supported by this player, even if it isn´t mentioned directly in the product´s description. Because why should he otherwise announce it in big letters in the headline of this whole thread? - But now as I saw the data-sheet of this player, I don´t know if it is really worth to be bought. It more seems to be a low-cost thing with much too less memory and a too small power-supply. Flash-based would be ok, but you should let decide the customer, how large the memory is, he uses. So, the minimum demand for such a flash-based memory player should be a changeable "compact flash"-memory (best if it would be delivered out without any memory, so the you could go around the corner into an electronic store and buy the memory you want (I would buy a 512 MB-card for it), because those 16 MB-gifts (or maybe even 128 MB), which are mostly added to it, have no practical use. - Or, second opportunity, it is sold at once with "big" cards - at least 256 or 512 MB - where the customer can order the one, he wants. And the power-supply should not be contain only a single AAA-battery, but 2 AA-cells ("Mignon"), so that the higher power-supply needs for this CF-memory does not lead to a too short playtime. And when the marketing is done quite well for this product, I think it will be a hit and a good deal for the manufacturer. The MPC- and Vorbis-communities are not that small than always said.
And last question to c.b.2000: Is the interface of this device only USB 1.1 - or already USB 2.0-capable?
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: rjamorim on 2003-08-11 07:39:00
Quote
Honestly, I don´t think it is a fake at all. Because c.b.2000´s background knowledge is too high for it. And, rjamorim, I really do think MPC is supported by this player, even it isn´t mentioned directly in the product´s description. Because why should he otherwise announce it in big letters in the headline of this whole thread?

Well, dunno. I'm just saying that his deliberate silence is strange.
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: user on 2003-08-11 09:28:48
well, another possibility:

sometimes it is usual for companies, to start exploiting the market = us, we in the forum, to see, what we want, or how and what we respond to their ideas.


So,

exchangeable CF cards, 128 min. better 512 MB,

and/or the other way:

CD-R/RW based (not only) portable player,

==>

DVD-A/V/SVCD/ MPC /MP3....... Player for living rooms...
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: Daybreak on 2003-08-11 10:28:17
Well, I wouldn't like to disappoint all of you, but this news was posted on June the 10th, 2 months ago.

Given that I can read Chinese, here's what it says. Apparently, its a successor to the N128 model, manufactured by the company MSC. MSC's website ( after some googling ) can be found here (http://www.mscmp3.com/msc_mp3/). ( Warning - All chinese! ).

No where does it mention any support of Vorbis / MPC - if so, it really isn't a selling point.  Also, sadly to say, the product catalog webpage for MSC doesn't list the N128+. It lists its predecessor, the N128 however....

A brief gooling for the MSC N128+ also turns up this thread (http://www.mscmp3.com/msc_mp3/forum/forumcontent.asp?page=1&recno=11771), one which seems to be asking for MSC customer's opinions on features that should be added. There doesn't seem to be any site selling it as of now, however, towards the end of the thread, there appears to be a response from an MSC representative stating the ideas/suggestions in the thread will be taken into consideration. That last post seemed to have been dated  2003-7-28.

Hope that was of use to those who are interested in the product!
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: indybrett on 2003-08-11 12:36:02
Quote
aren't mpc's rather large to be put on a flashbased device?

My music averages around 200kbs using mpc -xtreme. That's roughly the same size as using MP3 --alt-preset standard on the same material.
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: phong on 2003-08-11 14:09:22
Yeah, looks like vapor to me.  For portable MPC support, my money is on the Neuros (http://www.neurosaudio.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=788&SearchTerms=mpc).  It's on sale at buy.com for only $299 :drool:.  Hey, my not-birthday is coming up...  What a coincidence...
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: c.b.2000 on 2003-08-13 06:36:55
I work for a Chinese company, and this product is design for chinese market, so it maybe not fit for outside China.
  For Chinese market, few people know MPC, support it or not is not important, so it is not mentioned in the product´s description.
  The shell of it is not made by us, it is made by Mpman, a Korean company. It has a smart media slot, so we can only support SM but not CF.
  For flash base player, it dont need USB 2.0 high speed. Write to flash is very slow. So USB 1.1 (USB 2.0 full speed) is enough.
  I think I have try my best to design product with good sound quality. As I mentioned, 100db SNR, 63db THD+N. And I put MPC support on it. It is enough. Surely AAC can be done, but not now, maybe HE-AAC in the future,if I have time to do it.
  Because lack of flash memory, it is delay for so long time. But now it is on our product line. Thank god.
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: voltron on 2003-08-13 07:54:46
Good to see you still here. Any estimations on when it might be available?

voltron
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: Halcyon on 2003-08-13 13:22:00
While this is very welcome for mpc, I recommend people campaigning Rio to add support for musepack into their Karma HD player.

The hardware should be more than capable of doing it and the player has a potentially very long lifespan ahead of it (high quality, extensibility, connectivity, controlling company, etc.)

Now if we could only convince them that adding musepack support would bring them a few thousand active forum participators who would evangelise their player in various forums all over the world.
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: /\/irana on 2003-08-13 19:32:15
Quote
I work for a Chinese company, and this product is design for chinese market, so it maybe not fit for outside China.
  For Chinese market, few people know MPC, support it or not is not important, so it is not mentioned in the product´s description.

First,I'm a Chinese.Second,I don't understand the advertising strategy of your company.
You make a portable player supportting MPC ,but don't want to let consumers know.Even don't mention anything about it in the product's description.Just the developer posted a thread in a foreign forum.If I didn't come to here,I wouldn't know that there have been a mpc player in China.Is it weird? 
I think MPC supported is a big "Selling Point"!
few people know MPC?Perhaps it is truth.But as an old saying of Chinese,"Don't worry about not recognising the goods,just to compare them one by one"(sorry for my bad english,but you know what I mean,isn't it?  )
Show them the rjamorim's BIG test (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=11936)(yeah,big,not little  ) just finished last week.
What a good free advert! Translating the test result isn't a hard work.
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: Halcyon on 2003-08-13 20:41:08
I don't want to steal c.b.2000's thunder so to speak, but I think this is slightly relevant.

This ig hugof's (who works in the Rio/Karma team and participates in some forums), comment on if musepack support would be a possibility:

"We'd have to evaluate it when a decent, low-memory, low-cpu integer implementation is available. There would have to be some market demand for it, though, as there was (albeit small) with OGG."

http://msg.mp3.com/hardware/liststory/?top...tegory_id=10004 (http://msg.mp3.com/hardware/liststory/?topic_id=9211&month=200308&category_id=10004)

Now, while that's not any sort of a promise or even a hint, it's not an outright rejection of the idea either.

I think there might be a slight possibly of seeing such a feature, if people would ask for it and tell Rio that they will buy the player, if musepack feature would be added.
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: rjamorim on 2003-08-13 20:43:49
Quote
I don't want to steal c.b.2000's thunder so to speak

You are already doing so. And I find that very unpolite.

Why not post those comments at the two threads already started discussing the Rio Karma?
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: c.b.2000 on 2003-08-14 04:04:05
to /\/irana: Our company only do ODM and OEM. Product is saled by our partner. The product advertising is also made by them. For them, MPC sopport is not important.
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: Halcyon on 2003-08-14 07:13:19
I thought of moving my Karma/Rio/Hugof tidbit, but after c.b.2000's latest post, maybe it's not needed? It's not like I'm stealing work/publicity from them if they only do OEM work and this way more people will find out about the theoretical possibility for musepack support in other players than just the one that originated this thread.

My apologies to c.b.2000 if this is incorrect, he can PM me and I will correct it then. Also my thanks to c.b.2000 for keeping us informed, even though it seems next to impossible to get this player outside of China.

regards,
Halcyon
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: /\/irana on 2003-08-14 10:49:33
Quote
to /\/irana: Our company only do ODM and OEM. Product is saled by our partner. The product advertising is also made by them. For them, MPC sopport is not important.

You have done a great work to make an MPC Player,but nobody using it,even they have bought it,because they don't know player support MPC at all!
Your company partner have an opportunity to expand the influence of their product,but they ignore it,beacaue they don't know what is MPC.
Consumers have a chance to use a good codec  in a portable hardware,but they don't select it,becasue nobody tell them there is a choice.
All of us lost,isn't it?
Perhaps your partner should hire me to advertise for their product.
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: c.b.2000 on 2003-08-15 03:26:45
Yes,my original thought to post this thread is just let you know the possibility for musepack support in a handware players.
  to /\/irana, I'm just a little developer, I have no ability to change the world.
Title: World's First Flash Based MPC Player
Post by: Tomcat on 2003-08-15 04:24:40
If it will be selling in China, of course - it will be selling in Russia
At least I will take care about this with our suppliers, will the consumer's announce about MPC support or will not - just inform the community, c.b.2k!