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Topic: Quality of CD-Rips with EAC (Read 13322 times) previous topic - next topic
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Quality of CD-Rips with EAC

Sorry guys - again a stoopid question about the quality of a rip done with EAC.

I really was sure that everything went okay for me, but than I read some threads here on this board concerning the quality of EAC-Rips and this brought me some sleepless nights 

I treat my original CDs like "raw eggs", so there are no scratches or something like that so far. I did the EAC settings like the tutorial on the german page AudioHQ (secure mode, no c2, flac) and I installed AccurateRip.

With one exception every Rip was accurately ripped (if the disc was in the database) and the quality shown by EAC was at least 99,9% for every track.

Now I´m wondering (after reading a lot of threads about it) what would you do? Doing a second rip of every disc with another drive to compare the results? The result I described above, is it an 1:1 copy of the disc or maybe I´ll have to rip all the discs in a few years again because of a new technology?

I also have still a Plextor PX-116A. Should I buy a Plextor 716-A to get better results even if for my understanding the results should be without mistakes... but I can't get it: could there be two rips made with different drives/settings, both are without mistakes (registered by EAC) but one rip has a better quality than the other?

greetz

gReat jAy

Quality of CD-Rips with EAC

Reply #1 –
Quote from: Great Jay on
Now I´m wondering (after reading a lot of threads about it) what would you do? Doing a second rip of every disc with another drive to compare the results? The result I described above, is it an 1:1 copy of the disc or maybe I´ll have to rip all the discs in a few years again because of a new technology?

I also have still a Plextor PX-116A. Should I buy a Plextor 716-A to get better results even if for my understanding the results should be without mistakes... but I can't get it: could there be two rips made with different drives/settings, both are without mistakes (registered by EAC) but one rip has a better quality than the other?

greetz

gReat jAy


Don't worry, the recent threads were specific to a problem observed with NEC drives + C2 error correction.

It seems the tutorial you followed is pretty good, because it mentions accuraterip, and probably offsets, etc. If you configured your EAC with the correct offsets there should be no room for mistakes, and if the results are identical with the ones on the accuraterip database, you can be positive the rip is good - it makes no sense comparing the results by re-ripping with another drive. Even if your rip is not identical you shouldn't worry: different pressings, slighty different rips. If you want added peace of mind, use the "Test and Copy" feature, wich will compare test crc vs. copy crc. If you treat your CDs so carefully, you can probably even use Burst Mode instead of Secure Mode. Just make sure you "Test and Copy".

About the 1:1 copy... The procedure you described is incomplete. To achieve a perfect copy of the original you must take into account the gaps between tracks, and store them in a cuesheet. EAC can do this for you, by pressing F4, and then save the .cue file. This is the only way to assure the original timings between tracks is stored. You could also rip you CD to a single large file and use cuesheets to differentiate the tracks, but personally I find this method less flexible.

Quality of CD-Rips with EAC

Reply #2 –
Great Jay wrote:
>With one exception every Rip was accurately ripped (if the disc was in the
>database) and the quality shown by EAC was at least 99,9% for every track.

If AccurateRip says "accurately ripped", EAC's percentages are irrelevant.

>Now I?m wondering (after reading a lot of threads about it) what would you do?

I would stop wondering, given such perfect results.

>Should I buy a Plextor 716-A to get better results

The 716 doesn't have a great reputation. Find a Plextor Premium, or wait for
Premium 2. That of course will do nothing for the already perfect results you
get on most of your rips; but should you run into a troublesome disc later,
you'll have some extra DAE power.

>could there be two rips made with different drives/settings, both are without
>mistakes (registered by EAC) but one rip has a better quality than the other?

No.

Quality of CD-Rips with EAC

Reply #3 –
Quote from: Never_Again on
The 716 doesn't have a great reputation.

Please elaborate.  Perhaps you might choose to substantiate this with some facts.

Quality of CD-Rips with EAC

Reply #4 –
Follow http://www.high-quality.ch.vu

Ripping with no c2 usage and test & copy in eacs secure mode gives you a very high warranty (if the checksums of the test & copy runs are the same) that you got  a perfect extraction, even if your pressing of a CD is not in accurate rips database to check.

Quality of CD-Rips with EAC

Reply #5 –
Quote from: user on
Ripping with no c2 usage and test & copy in eacs secure mode gives you a very high warranty

I contend that matching T&C CRCs using Burst mode give you even higher warranty (assuming warranty  means confidence).

It is easier to get matching CRCs for a bad rip in Secure than it is in Burst:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....post&pid=397734

I can rip this track 50 times in Burst mode and not get the same CRC twice.

Quality of CD-Rips with EAC

Reply #6 –
thanks guys... I calmed down a little bit 

So it seems the tutorial I followed is really good, because it contains the procedure of getting a cue-sheet with the original gaps und the test&copy mode. So I followed these instructions I guess my rips are okay.

So I´ll continue ripping my whole collection...

thx

gReat jAy

Quality of CD-Rips with EAC

Reply #7 –
Quote from: greynol on
Quote from: user on
Ripping with no c2 usage and test & copy in eacs secure mode gives you a very high warranty

I contend that matching T&C CRCs using Burst mode give you even higher warranty (assuming warranty  means confidence).

It is easier to get matching CRCs for a bad rip in Secure than it is in Burst:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....post&pid=397734

I can rip this track 50 times in Burst mode and not get the same CRC twice.

I agree with this philosophy; for another reason too. I just don't think the extra stress on the drive of secure mode is worth it, I save this for the extremely rare cases. It's not often I have to resort to secure mode (infact I can't even remember the last time) since slowing down the extraction and cleaning the disc a little seems to  work for me for the majority cases.

After using AccurateRip for a couple of months now I'm really liking the extra confidence it gives and I don't think it's gets much better with regards to confidence of a secure rip. If the AccurateRip results were saved to the log file I'd just rip once (no test and copy) in burst mode.
daefeatures.co.uk

Quality of CD-Rips with EAC

Reply #8 –
I use T&C burst too, except for tracks that are really problematic where I can't get a matching CRC.

Quality of CD-Rips with EAC

Reply #9 –
greynol sez:
Never_Again sez:
>>The 716 doesn't have a great reputation.
>Please elaborate.  Perhaps you might choose to substantiate this with some facts.

See CDRFreaks' Plextor forum for the facts. There have been many complaints about the drive here as well. The general consensus seems to be that it is the worst Plextor ever. JeanLuc may have one that's good, but an exception proves the rule, donnit?

Quality of CD-Rips with EAC

Reply #10 –
Read the review at cdrinfo.com and you'll see that the PX-716 out-performs your beloved PX-712.

Forums are full of opinions.  Let's see some hard facts, friend.  Otherwise this is all hot air.

You made the claim, it's time you back it up.

Edit: Since your claim was about the PX-716's "reputation" perhaps a poll would be in order.

Quality of CD-Rips with EAC

Reply #11 –
Oh, you read cdrinfo.com? What a nice surprise. For a moment there I really took you for someone else.
Well, of course you cannot argue with hard facts. So I rest my case.

Quality of CD-Rips with EAC

Reply #12 –
Quote from: Never_Again on
Well, of course you cannot argue with hard facts. So I rest my case.

And it seems like you aren't are able to provide any. 

Please enlighten me, how is it that the PX-716A is one of the worst Plextors ever made?

Then you can rest your case.

Quality of CD-Rips with EAC

Reply #13 –
Quote from: greynol on
It is easier to get matching CRCs for a bad rip in Secure than it is in Burst:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....post&pid=397734
Nonsense. Whether secure mode makes things better or worse depends on how
reproducible the wrong values are, which itself depends on the type of defect.
Don't ask "hard facts" to others when yourself you draw wild conclusions like
this one from a test on a single track.

Quality of CD-Rips with EAC

Reply #14 –
Quote from: spath on
Quote from: greynol on
It is easier to get matching CRCs for a bad rip in Secure than it is in Burst:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....post&pid=397734
Nonsense. Whether secure mode makes things better or worse depends on how
reproducible the wrong values are, which itself depends on the type of defect.
Don't ask "hard facts" to others when yourself you draw wild conclusions like
this one from a test on a single track.

...as if I've only seen this with one single track.  HAHAHAHHAHHAHA!

Quit the hand waving spath!

Answer me this:  Have you ever seen a bad rip in Burst mode give a pair of matching CRCs.  If so, have you seen this as often as you have in Secure mode?

And if that is too pedestrian for you, perhaps you can enlighten me as to what types of defects would cause matching CRCs in Burst mode occur that wouldn't occur in Secure mode or would even cause the same rate of occurance.

IOW, please explain how what I posted is so uncharacteristic that I should not be making this claim:  Matching CRCs for a bad rip when using Burst are less likely than when using Secure.

spath, of all the tracks I have ripped using test and copy and AccurateRip, I have *never* seen a rip with matching CRCs that represented something that was an error.  I cannot say this for tracks ripped using Secure mode.  There may be no certainly, but I'd say that I have some statistical support.

I'm glad I got your attention since it seems as though you of all people should be able to help those less intelligent than you understand.  It would certainly be better for your soul than all this putting down that I see you doing.

Quality of CD-Rips with EAC

Reply #15 –
Well I tried T&C Burst mode and it was a lot faster than Secure mode.

Both T&C CRCs match and AccurateRip says it was an accurate rip at confidence level 2.

So is it safe to say I got a perfect extraction?

Quality of CD-Rips with EAC

Reply #16 –
Quote from: audioaficionado on
Well I tried T&C Burst mode and it was a lot faster than Secure mode.

Both T&C CRCs match and AccurateRip says it was an accurate rip at confidence level 2.

So is it safe to say I got a perfect extraction?

I believe that it is, yes; even if the confidence level had only been 1.

The mode used and whether or not T&C CRCs matched no longer concerns me when AccurateRip says it was good.

Quality of CD-Rips with EAC

Reply #17 –
Quote from: greynol on
I'm glad I got your attention since it seems as though you of all people should be able to help those less intelligent than you understand.
"Less knowledgeable in this particular field" may be more apt...
I'm on a horse.

Quality of CD-Rips with EAC

Reply #18 –
Quote from: Synthetic Soul on
Quote from: greynol on
I'm glad I got your attention since it seems as though you of all people should be able to help those less intelligent than you understand.
"Less knowledgeable in this particular field" may be more apt...
...and perhaps in communicating clearly. 
Thanks Synthetic Soul. 

Quality of CD-Rips with EAC

Reply #19 –
Edit: Naughty kids deserve no candy

Quality of CD-Rips with EAC

Reply #20 –
Quote from: Never_Again on
>Should I buy a Plextor 716-A to get better results

The 716 doesn't have a great reputation. Find a Plextor Premium, or wait for
Premium 2. That of course will do nothing for the already perfect results you
get on most of your rips; but should you run into a troublesome disc later,
you'll have some extra DAE power.


The 716A is not the most submitted drive in Accuraterip database for nothing.
Sure, some have problems with it, but there is a great number of users, who are
totally satisfied with it. 

Quality of CD-Rips with EAC

Reply #21 –
>716A is not the most submitted drive in Accuraterip database for nothing.

and a Ford focus might be the worlds most popular (by numbers) car, it does not automatically == quality

If someone had the time (I unfortunately do not)  someone could write a program to look though accuraterips database - find users their drive and wether the result was accurate, that would build a list of the most accurate drives (it is not as simple as just written, it requires some coding skill), that would put an end to the speculation.

Quality of CD-Rips with EAC

Reply #22 –
Quote from: spoon on
>716A is not the most submitted drive in Accuraterip database for nothing.

and a Ford focus might be the worlds most popular (by numbers) car, it does not automatically == quality

The 716A may not be Plextor's best drive, but for my purposes, it works very well. I find it interesting that this debate of Test & Copy with burst mode vs secure continues to go on. I've yet to see any information that proves either side. I use a combination of both. I make sure the CRCs match, and that AccurateRip verifies. Past that it isn't worth getting an ulcer over.

Quality of CD-Rips with EAC

Reply #23 –
Quote from: spoon on
If someone had the time (I unfortunately do not)  someone could write a program to look though accuraterips database - find users their drive and wether the result was accurate, that would build a list of the most accurate drives (it is not as simple as just written, it requires some coding skill), that would put an end to the speculation.
Where's the control in this test?
Until you can eliminate the fact that different people will be ripping from different discs this test will prove nothing.

Quote from: ChangFest on
I find it interesting that this debate of Test & Copy with burst mode vs secure continues to go on. I've yet to see any information that proves either side. I use a combination of both.
From everything I've read about it recently, most people are suggesting the same thing: use a combination of both.  At least this is what I've been telling people.

Quality of CD-Rips with EAC

Reply #24 –
Quote
Until you can eliminate the fact that different people will be ripping from different discs this test will prove nothing


There does not need to be a control, unless you are saying that people with drive XXXX look after their cds better than drive YYYYY (which is silly), the scratched cds will be uniformly spread amongst drives.