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Topic: Fake 24-bit FLAC? (Read 7844 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Fake 24-bit FLAC?

Reply #25
Thanks Bob. So many idiots here so your words gave some pleasure...
Does container compress it's content or not -- that's probably not the most important (WAV not of course so, when I wrote about WAV "lossless compression" -- I wasn;t precise to the 100%. Should wrote "packing without losses". The key idea is that WAV is not raw music file format (MSoft of course). If WAV is NOT that what many people think it is, how about FLAC then? :)) Some writing about FLAC as it is raw PCM format with guaranteed quality (means FLAC = Lossless --> so file there is perfect).
Huh? None does is imagine RAWPCM²=FLAC
Is troll-adiposity coming from feederism?
With 24bit music you can listen to silence much louder!

Re: Fake 24-bit FLAC?

Reply #26
This is where I think I should take a short timeout and read @Wombat's signature ...
High Voltage socket-nose-avatar

Re: Fake 24-bit FLAC?

Reply #27
how about FLAC then? :)) Some writing about FLAC as it is raw PCM format with guaranteed quality (means FLAC = Lossless --> so file there is perfect).

According to FLAC's developers, FLAC is the fastest losless compressor for WAV, like 7z for any other files. With flac.exe you can compress/decompress any WAV file. Finally, the raw data that matter for audio players remain "untouched", only metadata may differ at some point, but this doesn't matter. The woodoo science people think FLAC is an audio encoder because many players decompress-and-run FLAC's formats on-the-fly.


Re: Fake 24-bit FLAC?

Reply #29
how about FLAC then? :)) Some writing about FLAC as it is raw PCM format with guaranteed quality (means FLAC = Lossless --> so file there is perfect).

According to FLAC's developers, FLAC is the fastest losless compressor for WAV, like 7z for any other files. With flac.exe you can compress/decompress any WAV file. Finally, the raw data that matter for audio players remain "untouched", only metadata may differ at some point, but this doesn't matter. The woodoo science people think FLAC is an audio encoder because many players decompress-and-run FLAC's formats on-the-fly.
Agree.. Flac is probably the best but it is not "lossless" music file :) Without Flac, you can do everything you want. But, without MLP for example, you can't create many DVD-Audio discs when total bitrate really matter...

Re: Fake 24-bit FLAC?

Reply #30
You seem to have some fundamental problem understanding what lossless means. It means the decoded file will be identical to the original source and FLAC very much is lossless.

Re: Fake 24-bit FLAC?

Reply #31
I think he was trying to imply it's not lossless because you can stuff any data you want into it, including decoded MP3 files. But in that case, CDs aren't lossless either, since you can burn audio tracks from any lossy source you want.

Re: Fake 24-bit FLAC?

Reply #32
I think he was trying to imply it's not lossless because you can stuff any data you want into it, including decoded MP3 files. But in that case, CDs aren't lossless either, since you can burn audio tracks from any lossy source you want.
Exactly. Using "Lossless" as term is main issue. Files can't be lossles or losy (even CD of course). Only the way how you packing them, coding them, archiving them can be lossless or losy. "Lossless codec" means that you'll get out (unpacked, decoded...) absolutely(!) the same file as you put it in (each bit). Nothing more and nothing less. And it can be file of any quality. Lossless doesn't mean "Good audio file".

Re: Fake 24-bit FLAC?

Reply #33
It does, however, mean "Potentially perfect audio", in the sense that it technically could be a high quality input, but it may not be. It just means that if the source of the file is not lying about it being high quality, then the FLAC format itself won't damage the quality any more than the original source was already damaged in production.

Correct, it isn't some mystical guarantee of quality. What you put into it is exactly what you get out of it. Like archive formats that don't throw information away, it replicates its input exactly, with no additional loss. Recompressing it with these formats will also have no additional loss, and may only have added benefit of newer algorithms better compressing the data.

Garbage in, garbage out.

Re: Fake 24-bit FLAC?

Reply #34
I have 16-bit & 24 bit of FLAC audio file of a same song. However, I wants to  know which one should be/ is legit, CLEAR and LOUDER. Since the spectrogram is different in SPEK, I think that spek is not a good software to compare
FILE 1 is 24-bit: 192000Hz: 5586 kbps: 127MB

FILE 2 is 16-bit: 44100Hz: 987 kbps: 22.83MB
SO which file would be louder

HOW CAN I UPLOAD SPEC ANALYSIS HERE

 

Re: Fake 24-bit FLAC?

Reply #35
Quote
I think that spek is not a good software to compare
It's good for comparing the spectrum.  ;)     It's not necessarily a good way to compare sounds or sound quality.  

Quote
SO which file would be louder
You tell us...  

The format doesn't tell you anything about loudness.    The sample values in a 24-bit file are "bigger numbers" than the samples in a 16-bit file but when the file is played everything is scaled to match the bit-depth your particular DAC.     i.e. 0dB always comes-out as 0dB, even though 0dB is represented by a larger number in 24-bits.  

Re: Fake 24-bit FLAC?

Reply #36
     i.e. 0dB always comes-out as 0dB, even though 0dB is represented by a larger number in 24-bits.  
That is one I struggle to understand.
Playing 16 bit source on a 24 bit DAC: 111111111111111100000000
Playing 24 bit source on a 24 bit DAC: 111111111111111111111111

I have the feeling 24 is marginally louder. What am I missing?

TheWellTemperedComputer.com

Re: Fake 24-bit FLAC?

Reply #37
max (positive) value:
111111111111111100000000 =>  -0,0002650763 dBFS
111111111111111111111111 =>  -0,0000010354 dBFS
So yes, marginally louder.

min (negative) value:
16-bit source: 100000000000000000000000 => 0 dBFS
24-bit source: 100000000000000000000000 => 0 dBFS

Re: Fake 24-bit FLAC?

Reply #38
The spectrum of 192 kHz file ends at around 20k. Above that you have very low intensity noise/distortion represented by dark colors. The file clearly has been upsampled from a CD-like source material and now takes up several times the space for no gain. To increase loudness, turn up the level of your amplifier. "High-resolution" masters are usually less loud because they aim for greater quality or at least reserve a decibel of headroom to contain new peaks created through the conversion process.