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Topic: MPEG-4 standard (Read 7904 times) previous topic - next topic
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MPEG-4 standard

All DivX-players should play videos encoded in mpeg4 standard, I hope so.

But I don't know if Dolby Digital 5.1 audio in AAC (HE or LC) is part of the ISO-MPEG4 standard.

Or, other question:
Does the Kiss DP-1000 play such files?

MPEG-4 standard

Reply #1 –
DD 5.1 is AC3-encoded audio, and it's not MPEG-4 compliant.
I don't know what you mean with "But I don't know if Dolby Digital 5.1 audio in AAC (HE or LC)..", cause that kinda won't make sense.

If you mean generally multichannel audio, yes, MPEG-4 AAC is capable of multichannel. Don't know if that player supports MPEG-4 audio though.
Juha Laaksonheimo

MPEG-4 standard

Reply #2 –
Kiss DVD players are interesting. While they boast MPEG-4 compatibility, and carry the associated .mp4 logo, they play neither files in .mp4 container nor AAC audio. Yippee!

MPEG-4 standard

Reply #3 –
Quote
While they boast MPEG-4 compatibility, and carry the associated .mp4 logo, they play neither files in .mp4 container nor AAC audio. Yippee!

Erm... you don't need to support the entire MPEG4 standard to be MPEG4 compliant, you know?

From your train of thought, only devices supporting AAC (ALL profiles!), CELP, TwinVQ, Structured Audio, BIFS, MP4 container, VRML, JPEG2000, all countless video profiles, H.264, etc. would be able to claim MPEG4 compliancy.

MPEG-4 standard

Reply #4 –
I agree.. There are many profiles in MPEG4 just as in MPEG2.. each for different kinds of applications.. As a result there would be many different types of decoders..  (compliant decoders) Compliance is based on profiles..

MPEG-4 standard

Reply #5 –
Quote
All DivX-players should play videos encoded in mpeg4 standard, I hope so.

Well, they don't.  Mpeg-4 in AVI is definitely not in the specs, but that's what they play right now.  Many are 'DivX certified' which is a far cry from MP4 compliant.

MPEG-4 standard

Reply #6 –
I thought AAC-Audio is part of the MP4 (container!) standard. But it seems to be wrong.

Would then the Kiss-player play a MP4 file with 6-channel sound, encoded in AAC?

MPEG-4 standard

Reply #7 –
Quote
I agree.. There are many profiles in MPEG4 just as in MPEG2..

No, MUCH more

-Eugene
The  greatest  programming  project of all took six days;  on the seventh  day  the  programmer  rested.  We've been trying to debug the !@#$%&* thing ever since. Moral: design before you implement.

MPEG-4 standard

Reply #8 –
well the mpeg-4 standard is ISO 14496

than you have to differentiate again

MP4 is 14496-1
Video is 14496-2
AAC is 14496-3
...

and these subparts are also again divided into different profiles aso...

when it comes to mpeg-4 video, we use to backup dvds, the correct expression would be "advanced simple profile @ level 5" nothing less nothing more...

now the ideal case would be to get a codec which states that he encodes with asp@l5 and a hardware player that decodes asp@l5 and you would know that they are 100% compatibel
well to be really 100% comp both would also have to support mp4, cause avi is something not handled in the mpeg-4 standard and my lead to "incompatibilities"

the same goes for aac, to have an encoder and a decoder which are 100% comp mp4 would be ideal (the encoder from real for example puts aac into .ra -> incompatibilities)


so to sum up a standardized container makes sense to avoid incompatibilities also when it comes "only" to mpeg-4 video (14496-2)
and the standardized container of mpeg-4 is mp4

Quote
Would then the Kiss-player play a MP4 file with 6-channel sound, encoded in AAC?
no atm the kiss player neither supports mp4 nor aac (only avi)
I know, that I know nothing (Socrates)

MPEG-4 standard

Reply #9 –
Quote
Would then the Kiss-player play a MP4 file with 6-channel sound, encoded in AAC?

AFAIK there are no DivX players on the market capable of playing LC-AAC, leave alone HE-AAC. Most of them cant even play DivX/MP3 from MP4 container. The only one i am not so sure about is the Philips actually ....

MPEG-4 standard

Reply #10 –
Well, then I'm going to encode with AVI and MP3 or OGM and ogg as I did it until today. No AAC and no MP4 in future for me, because it would be a waste.

MPEG-4 standard

Reply #11 –
hm when it comes to mp4 container support on hardware i guess its just a matter of time when it will be supported cause its usage is license free

aac is another thing, but with the success of itunes and the multichannel option (at much lower bitrates than ac3) i dont think that we will never see mpeg-4 hardware players without aac support...
I know, that I know nothing (Socrates)

MPEG-4 standard

Reply #12 –
Quote
hm when it comes to mp4 container support on hardware i guess its just a matter of time when it will be supported cause its usage is license free

The MP4 container, for playing DivX/XviD ( = MPEG4ISO ) video plus MP3/AC3 audio on hardware units could be supported fine, and without any major hassle for the hardware vendors, but whats the point in doing so ? There are hardly any files out there using this kind of profile, and the only tool to make those files is MPEG4IP AFAIK.

99,999% of all files with this content are AVI, and why should anybody use something else for it ? When we were talking to hardware manufacturers about matroska support in their units, we had to face the very same problem, so there is no real outcome from all our conversations so far.

MP4 container will be supported by all of them, once they can decode AAC. Now, while the AAC licensing costs are acceptable, the biggest problem is that the only real gain compared to AC3, especially with current encoders and with respect to multi-channel audio, can be done with HE-AAC, and coding technologies, the license holder, hasnt even come up with a possible licensing agreement for hardware vendors, and tehy are also asking for a lot of money for SBR technology in general  ....

I can still see a lot of chaances for multi-channel Vorbis here, if only Monty could see the need and stop all other shit, to work on a good encoding profile for multi-channel Vorbis .....

MPEG-4 standard

Reply #13 –
Quote
The MP4 container, for playing DivX/XviD ( = MPEG4ISO ) video ... without any major hassle for the hardware vendors, but whats the point in doing so ? 99,999% of all files with this content are AVI, and why should anybody use something else for it ?

because its free and its an upcoming industry standard
the same goes for wm9, 99% of the files are mp3 but hardware manufacturers support it, for two reasons:
1) its free (meaning they can attract more users without having much additional costs/risks - dunno if thats also the case for matroska - 1.0 specs will surely help)
2) a big company, m$, is pushing it
i guess they even help developing firmware for free aso...

the difference to mp4 is that there is no big company behind it atm which pushes it comparable to what m$ is doing with wm9

Quote
There are hardly any files out there using this kind of profile, and the only tool to make those files is MPEG4IP AFAIK.

you should already know better

there are already plenty of tools, check out my mp4 faq here

Quote
I can still see a lot of chaances for multi-channel Vorbis here, if only Monty could see the need and stop all other shit, to work on a good encoding profile for multi-channel Vorbis .....
the bad thing with all this big business competition is that free options like vorbis are getting in the background, altough they offer often a better performance/quality
I know, that I know nothing (Socrates)

MPEG-4 standard

Reply #14 –
Quote
the same goes for wm9, 99% of the files are mp3 but hardware manufacturers support it, for two reasons:


I don't think wm9 is free.  At least WMA9 isn't AFAIK.  Its supported because there are actually a lot of people out their who use it, MS's licenseing is pretty generious and they provide decoders that are pretty easy to impliment.

MPEG-4 standard

Reply #15 –
lets say it will be for sure not free anymore if wma9 wins over its competitors (and vorbis, aac aso will only be used by freaks like us anymore)
I know, that I know nothing (Socrates)

MPEG-4 standard

Reply #16 –
Quote
MP4 container will be supported by all of them, once they can decode AAC. Now, while the AAC licensing costs are acceptable, the biggest problem is that the only real gain compared to AC3, especially with current encoders and with respect to multi-channel audio, can be done with HE-AAC, and coding technologies, the license holder, hasnt even come up with a possible licensing agreement for hardware vendors, and tehy are also asking for a lot of money for SBR technology in general  ....


HE-AAC is now part of the MPEG-4 audio patent pool:

http://www.vialicensing.com/products/HE_AAC
http://www.vialicensing.com/products/HE_AA...ense.terms.html

MPEG-4 standard

Reply #17 –
Quote
Erm... you don't need to support the entire MPEG4 standard to be MPEG4 compliant, you know?

From your train of thought, only devices supporting AAC (ALL profiles!), CELP, TwinVQ, Structured Audio, BIFS, MP4 container, VRML, JPEG2000, all countless video profiles, H.264, etc. would be able to claim MPEG4 compliancy.

But I think that would be the right thing. I mean, to say it is MPEG-4 compliant it should support all of its profiles. Too bad it is not like this.
Liberate tutemae ex inferis