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Topic: Can we rip DVD-A's yet? (Read 22585 times) previous topic - next topic
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Can we rip DVD-A's yet?

Reply #25
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My guess would be...  100% Front Left + 50% Rear Left + 25% Center, and the same on the right, followed by normalizing them to a nice level..  What do more sensible people thing?


This is starting to veer off-topic, but both Headac3he and BeSweet support a Pro-logic II type downmix (surround2) that allows you to reproduce the surround sound with a Pro-Logic decoder.

With such downmixes, I wouldn't play around with those settings

Can we rip DVD-A's yet?

Reply #26
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Why are DVD-A's being manufactured using lossy compressors such as DTS & Dolby?  They may be good compressors in part because of their huge data-rates.. but isn't that partly defeating the purpouse of DVD-A in being the highest quality one can get?

These tracks are just there for compatibility with current DVD players. If you have the appropiate player, you can decode MLP, that is lossless.

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I have found Sonic Foundry's Soft Encode a great tool, it decodes AC3 multichannel to wav's etc..  but sadly no DTS, so I'm not getting the highest quality files off there..


You can decode DTS using WinDVD + Hypercube transcoder. Look for it at Doom9.

Can we rip DVD-A's yet?

Reply #27
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Why are DVD-A's being manufactured using lossy compressors such as DTS & Dolby?

As rjamorim already stated, they are there for backwards compability. Many DVD-A have three tracks, DVD-A lossless, DTS or DD multichannel lossy compressed (playable with any DVD or DVD software on PC), and standard PCM tracks.

Using a DVD-A player, you will get the MLP lossless compressed DVD-A track. At maximum bitrates up to 9.8MBit.

Can we rip DVD-A's yet?

Reply #28
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Even if u use a standalone DVD-A player, u still only able to get analog output for the DVD-A track.
This isn't entirely true. [...] the only digital interface for DVD-A would be the 'DENON Digital Link 24/192'

He said analog, not digital 

Er perhaps you'd like to re read what he said; that you could only get an analog output even from standalone dvd-a players. I was pointing out that this wasn't true as denon have their digital link interface.
The Sony/Philips digital interface (SPDIF) does not support the full resolution of dvd-audio and as such this alternative was developed by denon for their high end kit.
Still confused?

Can we rip DVD-A's yet?

Reply #29
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I have found Sonic Foundry's Soft Encode a great tool, it decodes AC3 multichannel to wav's etc..  but sadly no DTS, so I'm not getting the highest quality files off there..


You can decode DTS using WinDVD + Hypercube transcoder. Look for it at Doom9.

Roberto, you 0wn!  Thanks man

Reading a different thread here I found how to let my system know that my dtssource.ax filter exists, and now it appears to be working fine.  I thought DTS was like RM in being totally unbroken, and now I find RM is hacked up

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Headac3he and BeSweet support a Pro-logic II type downmix (surround2) that allows you to reproduce the surround sound with a Pro-Logic decoder

I'm not sure I follow you..  I don't have a Pro-Logic decoder except in my standalone DVD-Player hooked up to my tv..  and I could just play the Orbital DVD in there anyway  I want to make a common stereo file, like I would find on the Orbital CD if I purchased it..
< w o g o n e . c o m / l o l >

Can we rip DVD-A's yet?

Reply #30
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This isn't entirely true. Last i heard, and i'm not actually 100% up to date in this area at the moment, the only digital interface for DVD-A would be the 'DENON Digital Link 24/192', which connects from its flagship DVD player to its top of the line home cinema amplifier.
DVD-A1 DVD Player
AVC-A1SR Amplifier
The cost for buying both of these would be somewhere upwards of £3000 as i recall.

Put it this way, are u able to use any DAC to complement the Denon DVD-A player?

The answer is NO.
Break The Rules!!!


Can we rip DVD-A's yet?

Reply #32
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Headac3he and BeSweet support a Pro-logic II type downmix (surround2) that allows you to reproduce the surround sound with a Pro-Logic decoder

I'm not sure I follow you..  I don't have a Pro-Logic decoder except in my standalone DVD-Player hooked up to my tv..  and I could just play the Orbital DVD in there anyway  I want to make a common stereo file, like I would find on the Orbital CD if I purchased it..

Headac3he and BeSweet are programs that can decode and downmix AC3 surround.  But instead of adjusting the channel levels yourself, they have presets like surround2, surround, stereo and a few others

I think that doom9 recommends that you use the surround2 downmix anyways.

Unfortunately, I can't find any documentation on what those settings actually do, so you'll have try different settings and see which you prefer.

Can we rip DVD-A's yet?

Reply #33
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This isn't entirely true. Last i heard, and i'm not actually 100% up to date in this area at the moment, the only digital interface for DVD-A would be the 'DENON Digital Link 24/192', which connects from its flagship DVD player to its top of the line home cinema amplifier.
DVD-A1 DVD Player
AVC-A1SR Amplifier
The cost for buying both of these would be somewhere upwards of £3000 as i recall.

Interesting, to bad it seems to be a Denon own solution. Would be nice with a standard solution.

Can we rip DVD-A's yet?

Reply #34
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on sacds it is physically not possible i think (or am i wrong? )


Right, PDM (DSD) is not processable by PCM encoders.

On a SACD there are physical watermark somewhere in the TOC. Unfortunately there exists no DVD ROM which can read the watermark.

So you can't even read the data off the SACD disc, not to mention how to process them...

Well the Audigy 2's DAC has the capability to decode DSD: http://www.cirrus.com/en/pubs/proDatasheet...et/cs4382-2.pdf

About ripping LPCM tracks off of DVDs you might want to look at  this thread over at the AVS forums.  It might help.

Can we rip DVD-A's yet?

Reply #35
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Well the Audigy 2's DAC has the capability to decode DSD: http://www.cirrus.com/en/pubs/proDatasheet...et/cs4382-2.pdf

About ripping LPCM tracks off of DVDs you might want to look at  this thread over at the AVS forums.  It might help.

It's all about license fees, nothing about the cability.

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The SPDIF outputs from both DVD-V and DVD-A will work and output digital audio, but be downsampled always to either 44.1 or 48 Khz, even if the source is 96 or 192 KHz.

No, it is not allowed, unless it is design as in Denon case, which is meaningless. All about copyright.
Break The Rules!!!

Can we rip DVD-A's yet?

Reply #36
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The SPDIF outputs from both DVD-V and DVD-A will work and output digital audio, but be downsampled always to either 44.1 or 48 Khz, even if the source is 96 or 192 KHz.

No, it is not allowed, unless it is design as in Denon case, which is meaningless. All about copyright.

Wrong :

http://www.digitalaudioguide.com/dareview/...ics/dvd-a10.htm

* Optional coaxial digital output

http://www.energenix.com/technics-dvda10n.html

* Optional coaxial digital output for connection to a variety of digital components

Can we rip DVD-A's yet?

Reply #37
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The SPDIF outputs from both DVD-V and DVD-A will work and output digital audio, but be downsampled always to either 44.1 or 48 Khz, even if the source is 96 or 192 KHz.

Thats not true. The digital outputs are fully closed when playing DVD-A. This is on Audigy 2, and I don't have a standalone player.

Can we rip DVD-A's yet?

Reply #38
Those feature lists just cite digital output as an ability on a multifunction player.  The DVD Consortium specified that DVD-A cannot be played back digitally except in certain special cases where there is some proprietary technology that keeps it protected.  Coaxial is not one of those technologies, and thus if you tried to play a DVD-A on one of those players, the digital output would be disabled.



Can we rip DVD-A's yet?

Reply #41
I don't see any mention of DVD-A there. Have you got a direct link, or a quote ?

Can we rip DVD-A's yet?

Reply #42
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I don't see any mention of DVD-A there. Have you got a direct link, or a quote ?

http://www.intervideo.com/jsp/WinDVDPlatin...num_Profile.jsp

 

I have an Audigy2 and tried the DVD-A bundled wih the card: it works nicely with WinDVD 5.1
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Full fidelity DVD-Audio sound with Creative Labs Audigy? 2 Sound Card
Combine InterVideo's DVD-Audio Pack with Creative Labs' Audigy? 2 series sound cards, and experience the advanced resolution playback and surround sound of DVD-Audio. Used with the Creative card, the DVD-Audio Pack delivers true DVD-Audio 96kHz/24 bit full fidelity sound as it was meant to be enjoyed. Click here for more details.


(I can post some screenshot, if you like)
Vital papers will demonstrate their vitality by spontaneously moving from where you left them to where you can't find them.

Can we rip DVD-A's yet?

Reply #43
I must be blind. I still don't see anything related to DVD-A is the first link.
There is something about high resolution audio

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96 kHz/24 Bit Audio Decoding:

WinDVD takes your listening experience to next level. It supports 96 kHz/24 bit audio decoding, which is like high definition TV for sound. 96/24 audio is studio-quality audio, the type of sound that professional musicians cut on master tapes. Treat your ears to 96/24 audio quality and make your movies seem almost real. 


But this is only for DVD-Video (24/96 is the maximum specification of DVD-Video, and they talk about "movies").

The Audigy 2 quote speaks about DVD Audio, but oddly limits the advertised playback to 24 bits 96 kHz, that is below the full DVD-A specifications (192 kHz 24 bits).

All I can see is an enigmatic mention of an "InterVideo's DVD-Audio Pack"...
Need more info.

Can we rip DVD-A's yet?

Reply #44
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All I can see is an enigmatic mention of an "InterVideo's DVD-Audio Pack"...
Need more info.

Me too, definitely.
Probably the feature page isn't completely done and doesn't advertise all new feature (I use Intervideo's product since WinDVD3 and never liked their websites for the lack of useful information..)

My only DVD-A is the one supplied with the A2, and this is the report of the information box of windvd

Code: [Select]
Audio:
   Hardware:
       Audio Device: creative
       S/PDIF: None
       Number of speakers: 2
   Stream:
       Type: Packed PCM
       Bitrate: 13824 Kbps
       Number of main channels: 6
       LFE Channel: None
       Sampling Frequency: 96khz
       Bits Per Sample: 24
   Output:
       Sample Rate: 96 KHz
       Bits per Sample: 24


As you noted, my DVD-A is 96/24.

(joking = DAMN! They sold me half a DVD-A !!!!!  )
Vital papers will demonstrate their vitality by spontaneously moving from where you left them to where you can't find them.

Can we rip DVD-A's yet?

Reply #45
HI !!!! New in this topic ....

1) i found the licence for protection purpose on Audio that explains rules ..
http://www.dtcp.com/data/Compliance_Rules_...udio_020610.pdf

2) i wrote in french sorry ... an article on Surround purpose with tests ..
http://forum.hardware.fr/forum2.php3?post=...cat=131#t501547

3) confirmation for ...
- Creative Audigy 2 ... disable Digital output with Dvd-A player
- Sucsessfull playing Dts-Dvd-A with Windvd (with full options) but not with Powerdvd v5 but success with powerdvd v4 (all options)...

4) why not an "open decoder" for Dts/Dolby ? is ther a problem for licence .. probably .. found parser and filter for Ac3/Dts for video media but nothing for audio ...

Hypercube seems to need some manipulation ... copy track to pc, rename extension and change header .. i mistake ?

some people produce package with ax file from gabest or intervideo to support dts/dolby video .. hope someone wil done the sam with audio support .. but illegal package i think


Also found an situation report on Drm including  Dv-A Feb-2003
http://www.cenorm.be/isss/DRM/draft_report1_2.pdf
Abstract ... See followings infos .. on pdf ..

Almost all the 260-odd DVD-A titles released to market to date have carried different versions of the audio to allow playback in DVD-A players and also in video/hometheatre systems. There are two main copy-protection systems within DVD-A, known as CPPM and CPRM.
For pre-recorded DVD-A, the CPPM protection system (Content-Protection for Prerecorded Media) is used to protect the audio. This involves encryption on the disc and key-blocks licensed for use in player devices are needed to play the disc.
As well as encryption on the disc and decryption in players, CPPM permits the
transport of digital content over an approved secure link for out-board processing,
and also the Verance audio watermark, which is applied to original audio. Compliant DVD-A players will not play content on DVD-recordable formats that is marked with the Verance mark, unless the content is encrypted and carried on an original disc or a compliant recordable disc. This system does not exercise control over CD-R copies, and content from any source on CD-R will play on DVD players whether watermarked or not.
DVD-A also provides for recordable media with copy-management to prevent
uncontrolled copying. The copy-management system is known as CPRM (Content-
Protection for Recordable Media). CPRM allows for re-marking of the Verance mark
in the copied audio. CPRM also allows secure export to flash-memory devices, and
for other specified uses such as library copies.


etc...
Newbie for ever ....

Can we rip DVD-A's yet?

Reply #46
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My only DVD-A is the one supplied with the A2, and this is the report of the information box of windvd
Code: [Select]
Audio:
   Stream:
       Type: Packed PCM
       Bitrate: 13824 Kbps
       Number of main channels: 6
       LFE Channel: None
       Sampling Frequency: 96khz
       Bits Per Sample: 24
   Output:
       Sample Rate: 96 KHz
       Bits per Sample: 24


As you noted, my DVD-A is 96/24.
(joking = DAMN! They sold me half a DVD-A !!!!!   )

Actualy this seems to be correct according to this specs . 192 KHz is only specified for 2 channel material.

I don't have a Audigy, but does it go beyond 96 KHz anyway?

BTW As you can see even 12 bits 44.1 KHz would be possible on DVD-A.  DVD is a true versatile format

[span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%']edit: just cleaned up the sig[/span]
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is.

Can we rip DVD-A's yet?

Reply #47
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Actualy this seems to be correct according to this specs ?. 192 KHz is only specified for 2 channel material.

I don't have a Audigy, but does it go beyond 96 KHz anyway?

BTW As you can see even 12 bits 44.1 KHz would be possible on DVD-A.   DVD is a true versatile format

Thanks for the infos!

Audigy2 AFAIK can playback audio up to 192KHz (IIRC I've tried with latest pp winamp plugin + ssrc); but i don't know if A1 can do this.


DVD-A 12 bits IST DEATH 
Vital papers will demonstrate their vitality by spontaneously moving from where you left them to where you can't find them.

Can we rip DVD-A's yet?

Reply #48
Thanks, interesting info, nwn.

One thought related to this. I've already started a thread about this at afterdawn.

Given I want to copy my valuable vinyl to DVD-A @ 24/96 resolution, so I can listen to it using a standalone player connected to my Hifi. I'll buy expensive DVD-A authoring software, decent equipment, spend lots of time on ripping and restauration and finally burn.

If I understand correctly what I read here and elsewhere about DVD-A there's no way to extract the high resolution audio of the DVD-As I've created without loss so far. So given DVD media have similar life expectancies as CD media, my DVD-As can't be called secure backups, so I'd have to store the source data additionally 2 times elsewhere to get decent security against loss. 

Have I missed somthing? is it possible to extract high resolution audio from self-made DVD-As somehow?
Let's suppose that rain washes out a picnic. Who is feeling negative? The rain? Or YOU? What's causing the negative feeling? The rain or your reaction? - Anthony De Mello

Can we rip DVD-A's yet?

Reply #49
I haven't followed this thread recently, but if you just want 2-channel 24/96, why not just use DVD-V?

And, obviously, don't use any copy protection.

Doesn't that solve the problem?

Cheers,
David.