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Topic: $10,000 Ethernet cables (Read 15370 times) previous topic - next topic
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$10,000 Ethernet cables

Reply #25 –
Quote from: includemeout on
Quote from: Roseval on
You ain't seen nothing yet
http://www.monoandstereo.com/2014/12/25000...udio-cable.html

Man, this is so flicking unbelievable it borders the surreal!! 

What sad lives the people who believe that mus lead.



Two words: Sighted evaluation.  This is where it always seems to lead.

I also like Greynol's word: Placebophile

$10,000 Ethernet cables

Reply #27 –
Quote from: 4season on
I like to think of it as a tax on rich stupid people.

I'd be perfectly ok with this kind of stuff if the money went to building bridges and repairing roads. Oh, wait. Education. That's even better.

$10,000 Ethernet cables

Reply #28 –
Quote from: Maurits on
Don't forget the type of NAS the music is stored on matters a lot too. After all, QNAP TS-419P+ sounds tidier, tonally less messy without the roughened HF, and perhaps better integrated in musical intent than a QNAP TS-439 Pro. 

This stuff is gold. 

We should do a best of thread or something, and this "test" would rank high.
Opus 96 kb/s (Android) / Vorbis -q5 (PC) / WavPack -hhx6m (Archive)

$10,000 Ethernet cables

Reply #29 –
Wow, those must be some excellent ethernet cables.

It's absolutely stunning what people, seemingly in their right mind (not demented or unbalanced), can be sold if there is enough hand waving and greasy smiling involved.

I tend to think that people who have been monetarily very successful in their livelihoods have a propensity to believe in their own greatness and therefore eschew reason and good taste when pursuing a "passion" (that is, something they're likely to spend enormous amounts of money on, but know almost nothing about).

To whit, Jeff Bezos is funding (to the tune of $42 million dollars) The Clock Of The Long Now, which, while not absolutely ridiculous or riddled with placebo, demonstrates an almost pathological level of denial of pressing, contemporary problems that threaten to preclude any use of such expensive baubles.

And since it hasn't yet been brought up, I feel an obligation to post the (sadly discontinued) $8000 Denon SPDIF cable, which apparently can solve global warming locally, but may cause head crabs to jump out of your toilet.

$10,000 Ethernet cables

Reply #30 –
Quote from: pdq on
What about a wireless link? Does the receiver have to be lower than the transmitter so that the music flows downhill? 


I did try this on once. Or, at least, I commented, in a management meeting, that it was a good thing that the servers were on the floor above the users, as only a few keystrokes had to travel from terminal to server, but much more data had to travel back, and gravity helped. I don't think anybody actually laughed. Not for a minute or two, at least!

Quote from: Al ex on
Quote from: Kohlrabi on
Again, why are they allowed to lie in advertising? It's one thing to hide or exclude truths, but flat-out lies are criminal.


Well, it´s not a lie per se. Unless someone comes and prooves that it is untrue. "Wo kein Kläger, da kein Richter".
On the other side - howelse should they justify !6900! GBP for a an Ethernet-cable...?


It is a lie, because network technology is so well understood as to make better-sounding network cables a complete impossibility. Not that that ever bothered an audiophool.

The last time I visited the site of a well-known manufacturer of such things, I saw claims such as "solder-free connectors." That would be like all the network flyleads in the box under my table. Even the nastiest of them.

Even if it isn't branded pixie-dust cables, audiophiles drool over the CAT numbers, tearing out CAT5 to install CAT6,  exited to get hold of CAT7 ...and did I hear that there is a CAT8 on the way? 

Wouldn't it be fun to demo a system connected with 10Mb "thin ethernet" coax! If anyone still has the parts: my "desk sculpture" made from T-pieces and terminators has long since disappeared.

By the way, there is one cable company that, making no claims of audibility, actually individually tests and certifies its network patch cables as being CAT-whatever-compliant.  I sing their praises so much it may begin to look like advertising, but I'm sure others know them and the no-bull articles on cabling on their site.

(excuse the rant: I do get very mad about the audiophooling of computers, networks, etc)
The most important audio cables are the ones in the brain

$10,000 Ethernet cables

Reply #31 –
Quote from: Audible! on
It's absolutely stunning what people, seemingly in their right mind (not demented or unbalanced), can be sold if there is enough hand waving and greasy smiling involved.


I wish I could remember the name of the book, and it might've been more anecdotal evidence than anything else, but I recall reading that highly-educated people (specifically doctors and lawyers) tend to be poor investors. And the reason cited was that their high IQs and skills in their field gave them confidence rely on their own judgement, rather than calling upon the skills of an investment specialist.

On audiophile boards, I'd periodically see "$10,000 to spend on an amplifier, what should I buy?" types of messages. And often it seemed like this person had already decided that his new amplifier must cost $10,000 (or more perhaps) and this aspect was not debatable. If not pure ego, I wonder if it's much the same sort of I-know-what-I'm-doing attitude here too.

Sometimes I think high end audio is made with the best science and engineering skills available from English and Journalism majors and advertising copywriters.

$10,000 Ethernet cables

Reply #32 –
Quote from: 4season on
I wish I could remember the name of the book, and it might've been more anecdotal evidence than anything else, but I recall reading that highly-educated people (specifically doctors and lawyers) tend to be poor investors. And the reason cited was that their high IQs and skills in their field gave them confidence rely on their own judgement, rather than calling upon the skills of an investment specialist.


I remember (very vaguely, it was decades ago!) a "quiz" which, I think, was aimed at the medical proffession. They had to not only answer questions,but also rate their confidence in their answers. The winner was not necessarily the one with the most right answers, it was the one with the most appropriately placed confidence. Maybe this is a well-known procedure? Comments from members with statistics knowledge please?

Quote
On audiophile boards, I'd periodically see "$10,000 to spend on an amplifier, what should I buy?" types of messages. And often it seemed like this person had already decided that his new amplifier must cost $10,000 (or more perhaps) and this aspect was not debatable. If not pure ego, I wonder if it's much the same sort of I-know-what-I'm-doing attitude here too.


I find that that is the rule rather than the exception. Maybe I'm still a bit of a "recovering audiophile" on this one: it is not unnatural to have a budget, and most of us go shopping for any item knowing what we are prepared or able to spend on it. Even the most ardent objectivists must know that there are things that money buys, if they are the things that one wants. The include things like beautiful cases and knobs, and that's fine if it what a person wants. They should include things like simple manufacturing/engineering quality, but, sadly, that may not be the case at all.

Yes, I still (or would, if I had any money) go shopping with a budget, but the adoption of the price tag as part of the specifications is the audiophool thing. This is particular prevalent with the nonsense products, with claims that, for instance I may not notice the difference with a $50 cable, but I will with a $200 cable, and over $500 will make a big difference. Not even a reference to specific products: just price ranges! What do they do? Stuff the cable with dollars? Do they make good shielding, or something? And is there any difference using pounds? euros? yen? Do exchange rates affect audio quality?

I also see the condemning of reports that a piece of equipment is bad, as in, "How can that idiot dismiss a $2,000 DAC?" Hmmm... What's worst: sighted listening test, or unsighted price-tag evaluation?     
The most important audio cables are the ones in the brain

$10,000 Ethernet cables

Reply #33 –
Oh come one guys and gals; give them a break. We all know FLAC Premium is more lossless than free FLAC.
Also place your speakers lower than the source BECAUSE audio signals (similar to data) flows naturally down hill do to gravity. Pi is exactly 3!

$10,000 Ethernet cables

Reply #35 –
One of the funniest things I've heard about cables was actually in a review of hyper-expensive turntable with elaborate suspension and counter-rotating platters and whatnot. Apparently, using a specific RCA cable was "like putting on 3D glasses, it is that good".

So I assume it makes you dizzy and gives you a headache.

$10,000 Ethernet cables

Reply #36 –
Stories like this abound. I know it gives those with a scientific background a laugh but protesting by way of science probably doesn't work. The people who believe that hard drives sound different, network cables sound different etc are beyond reason and into the realms of religion. I'm not suggesting they shouldn't be callled out as charlatans but I doubt it'll make much difference. Just as we know that digital tranfers are either perfect or audibly broken with precious little chance of anything inbetween, they "know" that human hearing trancends any science or instrumentation and can't be fooled. It's a matter of faith not science. Compound this by massaging each other's egos with the suble things the golden-ears can "hear" and it's no surprise that average-Joe is taken in by the glowing prose in the press.

As an aside, I recently replaced my 34 year-old Technics amp with a Denon of similar spec. Reading the reviews, there were criticisms that this amp is "in a rush to get the music out" and similar waffle, which I ignored. No scientific testing but I just replaced old with new & I'm damned if I can notice any difference beyond that the new amp's controls actually perform the intended function. I did buy silver though, maybe the black finish (dearer) would have sounded better? :-P

$10,000 Ethernet cables

Reply #37 –
sigh ... "A fool and their money are soon parted". To me it just seems like there's nothing new here. Does it really surprise anyone that people who make excessive salaries are so stupid as to waste money on obvious idiocy? Isn't the real crime how many people have money to waste that they most likely didn't deserve, meanwhile many hard working and honest people are grossly underpaid? Doesn't it look like the entire system is corrupt and unethical from the get go? Sorry, just saying ...
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?  ;~)

$10,000 Ethernet cables

Reply #38 –
Are these cables danceable?

$10,000 Ethernet cables

Reply #39 –
More ASA rulings:


http://www.asa.org.uk/Rulings/Adjudication...ADJ_274211.aspx
From their claims: "Tuned ARAY cables appear to dramatically reduce noise levels within the systems they are used in. The result of this is music with extraordinary levels of detail, dynamics and coherence ... because of the way Tuned ARAY works; connecting a Tuned ARAY cable to the streaming device will have a dramatic effect ... Music is simply so much more coherent and involving. This can transform the sound of both WAV and FLAC files and the results with high resolution downloads are simply stunning".

Ruled: The ad breached CAP Code (Edition 12) rules 3.1 (Misleading advertising), 3.7 (Substantiation) and 3.11 (Exaggeration).
Action
The ad must not appear again in its current form. We told The Chord Company Ltd not to make objective claims about the performance capabilities of their cables unless they held substantiation.


http://asa.org.uk/Rulings/Adjudications/20...ADJ_176028.aspx
From their claims: "This means you get stable, clear output, exactly as intended, without any distortion ..."

Ruled: [...]  the ad breached CAP Code (Edition 12) rules 3.1 (Misleading advertising) and 3.7 (Substantiation).
Action
The ad must not appear again in its current form. We told Alacrity Audio not to state that their loudspeakers performed without distortion and not to state that their technology was patented, unless they held evidence to support those claims.


http://asa.org.uk/Rulings/Adjudications/20...ADJ_244516.aspx
Claims hi-rez sounds like something you've never heard before. 

Ruled:
The ad breached CAP Code (Edition 12) rules 3.1 (Misleading advertising), 3.7 (Substantiation) and 3.11 (Exaggeration).
Action
The ad must not appear again in its current form. We told Sony Europe Ltd to ensure that any use of the graphs in their advertising did not exaggerate the capabilities and benefits of high-resolution audio.


http://asa.org.uk/Rulings/Adjudications/20..._ADJ_48282.aspx
Claims analogue radio is vulnerable to interruption
Ruled misleading, as ad implies that digital radio is not.

$10,000 Ethernet cables

Reply #40 –
Quote from: Thad E Ginathom on
I remember (very vaguely, it was decades ago!) a "quiz" which, I think, was aimed at the medical proffession. They had to not only answer questions,but also rate their confidence in their answers. The winner was not necessarily the one with the most right answers, it was the one with the most appropriately placed confidence. Maybe this is a well-known procedure? Comments from members with statistics knowledge please?
Dunning–Kruger effect

$10,000 Ethernet cables

Reply #41 –
Quote from: 4season on
On audiophile boards, I'd periodically see "$10,000 to spend on an amplifier, what should I buy?" types of messages. And often it seemed like this person had already decided that his new amplifier must cost $10,000 (or more perhaps) and this aspect was not debatable. If not pure ego, I wonder if it's much the same sort of I-know-what-I'm-doing attitude here too.



The frequent follow-on to that is the response to skeptics that goes: "Why are they so jealous of my expensive gear?"

o hai Mike Lavorgna

Quote
Odd isn't it that Mr. Richardson suggests that the audiophile world relies on obfuscation in order to peddle our wares and those who enjoy the stuff they've bought are really misguided fools. I believe that this point of view reeks of envy and nothing else.



(btw. in 2007 Mr. Lavorgna somewhat infamously took part in a blind test of cables ...and failed to detect difference...it gave him pause..  for about a week or two...but in the end it did not shake his faith)

$10,000 Ethernet cables

Reply #42 –
Quote from: Porcus on
More ASA rulings:


http://www.asa.org.uk/Rulings/Adjudication...ADJ_274211.aspx
From their claims: "Tuned ARAY cables appear to dramatically reduce noise levels within the systems they are used in. The result of this is music with extraordinary levels of detail, dynamics and coherence ... because of the way Tuned ARAY works; connecting a Tuned ARAY cable to the streaming device will have a dramatic effect ... Music is simply so much more coherent and involving. This can transform the sound of both WAV and FLAC files and the results with high resolution downloads are simply stunning".

Ruled: The ad breached CAP Code (Edition 12) rules 3.1 (Misleading advertising), 3.7 (Substantiation) and 3.11 (Exaggeration).
Action
The ad must not appear again in its current form. We told The Chord Company Ltd not to make objective claims about the performance capabilities of their cables unless they held substantiation.


http://asa.org.uk/Rulings/Adjudications/20...ADJ_176028.aspx
From their claims: "This means you get stable, clear output, exactly as intended, without any distortion ..."

Ruled: [...]  the ad breached CAP Code (Edition 12) rules 3.1 (Misleading advertising) and 3.7 (Substantiation).
Action
The ad must not appear again in its current form. We told Alacrity Audio not to state that their loudspeakers performed without distortion and not to state that their technology was patented, unless they held evidence to support those claims.


http://asa.org.uk/Rulings/Adjudications/20...ADJ_244516.aspx
Claims hi-rez sounds like something you've never heard before. 

Ruled:
The ad breached CAP Code (Edition 12) rules 3.1 (Misleading advertising), 3.7 (Substantiation) and 3.11 (Exaggeration).
Action
The ad must not appear again in its current form. We told Sony Europe Ltd to ensure that any use of the graphs in their advertising did not exaggerate the capabilities and benefits of high-resolution audio.


http://asa.org.uk/Rulings/Adjudications/20..._ADJ_48282.aspx
Claims analogue radio is vulnerable to interruption
Ruled misleading, as ad implies that digital radio is not.


Some very funny stuff there. I could learn a thing or two from that loudspeaker site. 
Guess they caught Sony with a bit of shysterism too.
Matters scant to the D-K gang, but at least someone has standards.

cheers,

AJ

Loudspeaker manufacturer

$10,000 Ethernet cables

Reply #43 –
Quote from: krabapple on
(btw. in 2007 Mr. Lavorgna somewhat infamously took part in a blind test of cables ...and failed to detect difference...it gave him pause..  for about a week or two...but in the end it did not shake his faith)

Methinks you have conflated Lavorgna with Lavigne. In any case, I did accurately predict the long term effectiveness of such therapy.
Being immersed with "in the biz" types for many years helps.

cheers,

AJ
Loudspeaker manufacturer

$10,000 Ethernet cables

Reply #45 –
Quote from: Porcus on
More ASA rulings:

... ... ...


It really is heartening to know that somebody with some clout is doing something. Three cheers for the UK's ASA 

Quote from: rick.hughes on
Quote from: Thad E Ginathom on
I remember (very vaguely, it was decades ago!) a "quiz" which, I think, was aimed at the medical proffession. They had to not only answer questions,but also rate their confidence in their answers. The winner was not necessarily the one with the most right answers, it was the one with the most appropriately placed confidence. Maybe this is a well-known procedure? Comments from members with statistics knowledge please?
Dunning–Kruger effect


Sometimes I get a mental picture associated with a memory, and if I'm right on this one, i heard the radio program in the house that I lived in up to 1967, when I was 15, and it was about training medical professionals to make better decisions by training them to assess their own.

Could well be related to the work you reference, I don't know, but the description of incompetence just fits this thread so perfectly: people, for instance, who decide, with dogmatic certainty, that they are able to assess the effect of a non-audio component such as a network cable, when they lack the basic competence to even know what it is doing and how. And yet their certainty is unshiftable.

The most important audio cables are the ones in the brain

$10,000 Ethernet cables

Reply #46 –
A short article deeming the $10k cable 'bonkers cable'.

Worth noting in the rather short time span since both this thread and the linked article came out, said ad has disappeared. 

Sold out perhaps?   

Listen to the music, not the media it's on.
União e reconstrução

$10,000 Ethernet cables

Reply #47 –
Quote from: includemeout on
A short article deeming the $10k cable 'bonkers cable'.

Worth noting in the rather short time span since both this thread and the linked article came out, said ad has disappeared. 

Sold out perhaps? 

The Register was where I read it first.

But yes, bonkers 

$10,000 Ethernet cables

Reply #48 –
If they really believe what they advertise about their network cables, then it is obvious that they actually know little or nothing about networks and network cables. Seems to me that that makes buying a network cable from them a rather silly thing to do.

I'd love to see the results of CAT-compliance testing on these audiophile cables
The most important audio cables are the ones in the brain

$10,000 Ethernet cables

Reply #49 –
Quote from: Thad E Ginathom on
If they really believe what they advertise about their network cables, then it is obvious that they actually know little or nothing about networks and network cables. Seems to me that that makes buying a network cable from them a rather silly thing to do.

I'd love to see the results of CAT-compliance testing on these audiophile cables

Someone actually ran tests on Audioquest's USB cables along with monoprice or some other common brand. I'll post a link if I can find it.