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https://surveynuts.com/surveys/take?id=129486&c=2506331033FTLT

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    4 (66.7%)
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    2 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 6

Topic: (poll) What are the audible differences between dedicated DACs (Read 6983 times) previous topic - next topic

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  • Neb9
  • [*]
(poll) What are the audible differences between dedicated DACs
https://surveynuts.com/surveys/take?id=129486&c=2506331033FTLT
Only respond if you perceive/believe there is a difference

All questions are optional. If you identify/use Hydrogenaudio the most out Headfi, r/audiophile, r/headphones, Computer Audiophile, respond here. Otherwise, please respond there. This survey is referring to DACs which are functioning and are of a somewhat reasonable design, eg functioning as intended (working, no oscillations, reasonably flat frequency response, not ultra-high distortion). This survey is anonymous and is for academic purposes.

  • greynol
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  • Global Moderator
Re: (poll) What are the audible differences between dedicated DACs
Reply #1
Despite the fact that the post initiating this topic/(broken) poll solicits responses that may solely be predicated on belief, any and all replies failing to meet the requirements stated in the forum's terms for participation will be binned and the posting privileges of the authors of the offending posts will be curtailed.

8. All members that put forth a statement concerning subjective sound quality, must -- to the best of their ability -- provide objective support for their claims.  Acceptable means of support are double blind listening tests (ABX or ABC/HR) demonstrating that the member can discern a difference perceptually, together with a test sample to allow others to reproduce their findings.  Graphs, non-blind listening tests, waveform difference comparisons, and so on, are not acceptable means of providing support.

Hydrogenaudio is supposed to be an objectively minded community that relies on double-blind testing and relevant methods of comparison in discussion about sound quality. The usual "audiophile" speak of non-audio related terms which are completely subjective and open to redefinition on a whim, are useless for any sort of progression in discussion.

This rule is the very core of Hydrogenaudio, so it is very important that you follow it.
Is 24-bit/192kHz good enough for your lo-fi vinyl, or do you need 32/384?

  • greynol
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  • Global Moderator
Re: (poll) What are the audible differences between dedicated DACs
Reply #2
Furthermore, a lack of acknowledgement by this topic's author will result in closure of the discussion. The acknowledgement shall be stated publicly in this discussion and within a reasonable amount of time.
Is 24-bit/192kHz good enough for your lo-fi vinyl, or do you need 32/384?

  • ajinfla
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Re: (poll) What are the audible differences between dedicated DACs
Reply #3
How can any reasonable poll about DAC sound not have "orgasmic" (or was that "organic") as a descriptor???
Must be a joke.
Loudspeaker manufacturer

  • saratoga
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Re: (poll) What are the audible differences between dedicated DACs
Reply #4
Those questions seem aimed at relatively inexperienced enthusiasts with their emphasis on the DAC itself. In my experience the DAC itself matters much less than the analog electronics it is integrated into.

Regardless I voted for the period option.

Re: (poll) What are the audible differences between dedicated DACs
Reply #5
The sound of a dedicated DAC might depend on just how dedicated it actually is.
The most important audio cables are the ones in the brain

  • Neb9
  • [*]
Re: (poll) What are the audible differences between dedicated DACs
Reply #6
People who think that there is an audible difference between DACs is the only demographic which I am interested in for this poll.
For example: If I want to know what specifically republicans think of trump, I am not going to ask democrats "what do you think of trump". Vice versa. It's not going to be helpful in answering the question.
This is not a poll aimed at people interested in audio on the whole, just to people who believe there is a difference. Also, If I were trying to get an answer as to if there is a difference or not, asking random people on the internet is certainly not the way to go about it. As you all know there are far far better and objective ways of determining that.

I am fully aware that looking at measurements there should be no difference between any reasonably designed (and they don't deliberately have high distortion) DAC assuming it not on a complete shoe string budget , eg a whole dedicated DAC for a few dollars, or it being severely affected by some kind of interference, eg cables wrapped around a high very powered transformer. Also, I am aware in ABX tests DACs do not fare well, as the measurements say they should.

As part of what I am doing I will conduct an ABX test (a proper ABX, not just a blind test) with several people between DACs. Most of them are around ~$100 but it ranges from $17.5 (OREI Digital to Analog Audio Converter) to $2800 (Auralic Vega, was $3500). Not that it should make any difference in the ABX: but Looking thorough the last 110+ DACs (complied a list of their distortion, but not the other measurements yet) measured by Stereophile (past then, the measurement equipment is bad and this is going back to ~2005 from memory) the Auralic Vega is overall the best measuring DAC with the exception of $36000 dCS Rossini.


  • Last Edit: 20 March, 2017, 04:06:16 AM by Neb9

  • Soap
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Re: (poll) What are the audible differences between dedicated DACs
Reply #7
It's ok guys, I got this.

Just submitted 12 random (or maybe not???) poll replies, using the Head-fi and reddit polls.

Greasemonkey (and a set of proxys) to the rescue!

Will automate to do more @ random times.

Neb90 on reddit

  • Last Edit: 20 March, 2017, 06:53:48 AM by Soap
Creature of habit.

  • Neb9
  • [*]
Re: (poll) What are the audible differences between dedicated DACs
Reply #8
It's ok guys, I got this.

Just submitted 12 random (or maybe not???) poll replies, using the Head-fi and reddit polls.

Greasemonkey (and a set of proxys) to the rescue!

Will automate to do more @ random times.

Neb90 on reddit



Don't really get the joke?
I am genuinely looking for said peoples opinions, doing as you said would not be helpful.

  • dhromed
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Re: (poll) What are the audible differences between dedicated DACs
Reply #9
What are you trying to test with the data?

  • KozmoNaut
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Re: (poll) What are the audible differences between dedicated DACs
Reply #10
What are you trying to test with the data?

Probably the sheer gullibility of audiophiles.

  • dhromed
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Re: (poll) What are the audible differences between dedicated DACs
Reply #11
If a significant portion of users believe DAC problems are caused by X or Y, then you can focus on that in production(-marketing), and make a lot of money.

  • greynol
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  • Global Moderator
Re: (poll) What are the audible differences between dedicated DACs
Reply #12
If that is the case then we're looking at a TOS #14 violation and the link to his external poll (if not the entire discussion) goes poof.
Is 24-bit/192kHz good enough for your lo-fi vinyl, or do you need 32/384?

  • dhromed
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Re: (poll) What are the audible differences between dedicated DACs
Reply #13
I was just hypothesising cynically, I didn't mean to question Neb9's scientific intentions without any evidence.

  • Neb9
  • [*]
Re: (poll) What are the audible differences between dedicated DACs
Reply #14
If that is the case then we're looking at a TOS #14 violation and the link to his external poll (if not the entire discussion) goes poof.

"This survey is anonymous and is for academic purposes."

If it were for marketing purposes why on earth would I perform said ABX test and post the results?

The purpose of this survey is as I stated is for academic purposes. What I want it for is to research how any measurements/design aspects could relate to the believed differences in sound. It is also to try help people in the ABX to differentiate DACs. This may sound somewhat pointless though it is in part an aspect of the assessment criteria (for myself). Regardless, the ABX is most certainly of worth.
  • Last Edit: 20 March, 2017, 08:45:46 PM by Neb9

Re: (poll) What are the audible differences between dedicated DACs
Reply #15
This survey belongs on head-fi or some other placebophile forum.  I don't believe that anyone on HA is actually going to believe there is much of a difference, if any in a DAC.

  • Neb9
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Re: (poll) What are the audible differences between dedicated DACs
Reply #16
This survey belongs on head-fi or some other placebophile forum.  I don't believe that anyone on HA is actually going to believe there is much of a difference, if any in a DAC.

So far I have 13 responses from here. I'm not sure how seriously people answered it but the average % for the for each option is ~20%. The first question results looks similar to that of r/audiophile except everything is a slightly lower %.
  • Last Edit: 20 March, 2017, 10:13:02 PM by Neb9

  • KozmoNaut
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Re: (poll) What are the audible differences between dedicated DACs
Reply #17
This survey belongs on head-fi or some other placebophile forum.  I don't believe that anyone on HA is actually going to believe there is much of a difference, if any in a DAC.

So far I have 13 responses from here. I'm not sure how seriously people answered it but the average % for the for each option is ~20%. The first question results looks similar to that of r/audiophile except everything is a slightly lower %.

A number of those responses are from me. Don't take them seriously.

  • Case
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  • Developer (Donating)
Re: (poll) What are the audible differences between dedicated DACs
Reply #18
Why do you have the need to be so hostile and harm the guy's research? Sometimes I don't understand this place.

  • StephenPG
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Re: (poll) What are the audible differences between dedicated DACs
Reply #19
Case,

The guy cherry picking the people that respond to the 'poll' should have been a clue...

  • KozmoNaut
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Re: (poll) What are the audible differences between dedicated DACs
Reply #20
Why do you have the need to be so hostile and harm the guy's research? Sometimes I don't understand this place.

It's nothing personal, I do that with all online polls.

  • Case
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  • Developer (Donating)
Re: (poll) What are the audible differences between dedicated DACs
Reply #21
He has different polls for different targets so he can see how crazy people are at respective places. I don't visit the other sites but so far I think this place looks quite insane.

I don't see harm in not collecting "there is no difference" results. Those won't help with the eventual listening test.

I participated in his poll since it listed difference in noise floor as an option. Noise can be audible in otherwise good sound devices when nothing is playing.

  • ajinfla
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Re: (poll) What are the audible differences between dedicated DACs
Reply #22
This survey is referring to DACs which are functioning and are of a somewhat reasonable design, eg functioning as intended (working, no oscillations, reasonably flat frequency response, not ultra-high distortion).

Noise can be audible in otherwise good sound devices when nothing is playing.
No.
Loudspeaker manufacturer

  • Case
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  • Developer (Donating)
Re: (poll) What are the audible differences between dedicated DACs
Reply #23
Plug headphones into a soundcard that doesn't mute its output when it's unused and you hear noise. If output gets muted play a 24 bit file that has noise in last bit. I hear noise from all sound cards and phones but then I don't have a $30.000 DAC to test with. Are you suggesting all my sound sources are improper?

  • ajinfla
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Re: (poll) What are the audible differences between dedicated DACs
Reply #24
I'm suggesting you figure out a functioning "DAC" does not output audible noise.
(and need not cost $30k or other reductio ad absurdum)
Loudspeaker manufacturer